[Game] Naruto Shippuden Mafia Game #43

[Gutsy]

About 12 hours remain.

I have to go to physical therapy and when I come back I'll park my butt in game until I'm done with my unpairings.

My belief is that The Big Boss is the wolf and not Stargate, my current vote is on The Big Boss.

He’s pushed naked “wolf” lists, treated “accusing me D3 is all I need to hear” as a case, tried to self-clear and herd (“join Waluigi and myself”), and framed policy (“lazy townies will be treated like wolves”). Tonight he called early voting “sus” then instantly dropped a temp vote on AP the moment you did after spending the day selling out Stargate. That’s momentum-riding, not solving. Add the martyr AtE (“kill me to unify town”) and his positioning on prior miselims, and the throughline is agenda over receipts.

And then i said:
If you want me off, bring two quotes per suspect that are actually wolf-indicative and a flip tree for each world; until then, my vote stays.

 

[Gutsy]

Waluigi, sure. My current wolf pool is The Big Boss > Rohan > Ekkologix. For TBB, it’s the pattern: naked “wolf” lists (“rohan / gutsy / animepigeon”), “accusing me D3 is all I need to hear,” the self-clear/herding (“join Waluigi and myself”), policy shade (“lazy townies will be treated like wolves”), and then calling early votes “sus” before instantly dropping a temp vote on AP right after you did. That reads like momentum riding, not solving. For Rohan, the drop-off is jarring given he helped set the rules, and he was on the D2 Hunty miselim at EOD with thin reasoning (“posted very less and are wolfy”); feels opportunistic. For Ekko, the issue is process: building/echoing easy pools (Tiara/Stargate/Hunty), setup-talk over receipts, and not anchoring flip trees, pressure that doesn’t resolve.

My town side is Naomi + AnimePigeon (mason claim; I’m not voting there), and Stargate is tentatively town if the doc claim holds up on details/targets. Kirikoe leans town for consistent process and pushing for clarity. You’re complicated: JOAT/tracker claim is fine, but implying AP “was somewhere” without pre-committing your result forced an unnecessary mason out, bad process, not alignment by itself. If your N2 track is cleanly stated and matches AP/Naomi, I keep you out of the POE.


Flip paths: if TBB flips wolf, I re-check Ekko next and keep Rohan in POE; if TBB flips town, I pivot to Rohan/Ekko (and revisit Stargate only if the claim cracks). That’s where I’m at, and I’m happy to adjust if someone brings two concrete posts per suspect that beat the above.

 

[Waluigi]

My belief is that The Big Boss is the wolf and not Stargate, my current vote is on The Big Boss.

He’s pushed naked “wolf” lists, treated “accusing me D3 is all I need to hear” as a case, tried to self-clear and herd (“join Waluigi and myself”), and framed policy (“lazy townies will be treated like wolves”). Tonight he called early voting “sus” then instantly dropped a temp vote on AP the moment you did after spending the day selling out Stargate. That’s momentum-riding, not solving. Add the martyr AtE (“kill me to unify town”) and his positioning on prior miselims, and the throughline is agenda over receipts.

And then i said:
If you want me off, bring two quotes per suspect that are actually wolf-indicative and a flip tree for each world; until then, my vote stays.

Alright.

I'm going to be isoing everyone, and combing through very carefully.

I am taking your position under advisement.

There's kind of like a big loop of suspicions this game, between me, and you, and kirikoe, and stargate, and big boss, and ekko, and rohan, and so forth, and they can't all be right.

there's too many names there.

All the folks are being suspected. So there HAS to be town on town suspicion happening, imo.

The odds against that are astronomical.

But, unless I can show you concretely why Big Boss is town and/or stargate is town, I understand that's not enough.

All I'm generally asking, is that we recognize there's likely town on town suspicion happening.

If you're town, be careful. We can't afford it past today, so if boss is town, or stargate is town, we have to be open to the idea we're wrong tomorrow.

I also, really don't know how well the discussion is going to go, if we enter final 7 with everyone in town suspecting each other, and the masons suspecting me.

I think that's a 99 percent loss. The only way that reverses, ever, is if everyone in town eats humble pie, and calms down.

That's the only way.

Agreed?

 

[Waluigi]

Waluigi, sure. My current wolf pool is The Big Boss > Rohan > Ekkologix. For TBB, it’s the pattern: naked “wolf” lists (“rohan / gutsy / animepigeon”), “accusing me D3 is all I need to hear,” the self-clear/herding (“join Waluigi and myself”), policy shade (“lazy townies will be treated like wolves”), and then calling early votes “sus” before instantly dropping a temp vote on AP right after you did. That reads like momentum riding, not solving. For Rohan, the drop-off is jarring given he helped set the rules, and he was on the D2 Hunty miselim at EOD with thin reasoning (“posted very less and are wolfy”); feels opportunistic. For Ekko, the issue is process: building/echoing easy pools (Tiara/Stargate/Hunty), setup-talk over receipts, and not anchoring flip trees, pressure that doesn’t resolve.

My town side is Naomi + AnimePigeon (mason claim; I’m not voting there), and Stargate is tentatively town if the doc claim holds up on details/targets. Kirikoe leans town for consistent process and pushing for clarity. You’re complicated: JOAT/tracker claim is fine, but implying AP “was somewhere” without pre-committing your result forced an unnecessary mason out, bad process, not alignment by itself. If your N2 track is cleanly stated and matches AP/Naomi, I keep you out of the POE.


Flip paths: if TBB flips wolf, I re-check Ekko next and keep Rohan in POE; if TBB flips town, I pivot to Rohan/Ekko (and revisit Stargate only if the claim cracks). That’s where I’m at, and I’m happy to adjust if someone brings two concrete posts per suspect that beat the above.

Thank you, this is a huge help.

I will compare this to their isos and even pair it up with the post numbers.

If everything youre saying is true, I can identify it in the game record. I believe stuff that is true and in the game record more than I believe "sus" without a case and reactive "voting whoever votes you" kinda stuff.

@Gutsy

Do you therefore then believe the murders are meant to frame stargate, or someone else?

Or were they just town PR hunts?

 

[Gutsy]

@Waluigi

Posts from big boss that concern me and read to me as wolf:

• #803 – Naked wolf list. “Wolf: rohan / gutsy / animepigeon.” No quotes, no reasons. Classic agenda-setting without risk.
• #806 – appeal. “Accusing me D3 is all I need to hear.” That’s not a case; it’s “you suspect me → you’re scum,” which is wolfy defensiveness.
• #808 – Policy shade. “Lazy townies will be treated like wolves.” Policy framing substitutes threat for analysis; wolves love it because it keeps options open.
• #809 – Self-clear & herding. “town: waluigi / the big boss / kirikoe; everyone else prove yourselves.” Tries to crown a towncore with himself in it, without evidence, and push everyone else into POE.
• #811 – inconsistency. Claims “my day 2 vote was for stargate,” while EoD2 ended on Hunty with 4 votes (TBB/Kirikoe/Gutsy/Rohan). That’s either memory convenient to the narrative or an attempt to rewrite positioning.
• #864 - #866 – Opportunism contradiction. Calls early voting “very sus” (#864) then immediately drops a temp vote on AnimePigeon the moment Waluigi does (#866), despite having sold Rohan/Stargate all day. That’s riding fresh momentum, not pushing his own stated solves.
• Martyr (earlier). “My death might be the only to unify the town.” Self-sacrifice framing is classic AtE; it pressures town to stop questioning him instead of producing receipts.

 

[The Big Boss]

@Waluigi
I stopped accusing gutsy based on your idea, but he doesn’t seem cooperative.

 

[Gutsy]

Alright.

I'm going to be isoing everyone, and combing through very carefully.

I am taking your position under advisement.

There's kind of like a big loop of suspicions this game, between me, and you, and kirikoe, and stargate, and big boss, and ekko, and rohan, and so forth, and they can't all be right.

there's too many names there.

All the folks are being suspected. So there HAS to be town on town suspicion happening, imo.

The odds against that are astronomical.

But, unless I can show you concretely why Big Boss is town and/or stargate is town, I understand that's not enough.

All I'm generally asking, is that we recognize there's likely town on town suspicion happening.

If you're town, be careful. We can't afford it past today, so if boss is town, or stargate is town, we have to be open to the idea we're wrong tomorrow.

I also, really don't know how well the discussion is going to go, if we enter final 7 with everyone in town suspecting each other, and the masons suspecting me.

I think that's a 99 percent loss. The only way that reverses, ever, is if everyone in town eats humble pie, and calms down.

That's the only way.

Agreed?

Im willing to agree that there is definitely town on town suspicion, but currently it is very hard for me to let go of Big Boss because of his direct, tough and forceful nature and aggressive comments.

 

[Gutsy]

@Waluigi
I stopped accusing gutsy based on your idea, but he doesn’t seem cooperative.

So because you stopped accusing me i should just drop my wolf take on you? when you havent been shown to not be, as Waluigi said you had to prove it.

 

[The Big Boss]

@Waluigi

Posts from big boss that concern me and read to me as wolf:

• #803 – Naked wolf list. “Wolf: rohan / gutsy / animepigeon.” No quotes, no reasons. Classic agenda-setting without risk.
• #806 – appeal. “Accusing me D3 is all I need to hear.” That’s not a case; it’s “you suspect me → you’re scum,” which is wolfy defensiveness.
• #808 – Policy shade. “Lazy townies will be treated like wolves.” Policy framing substitutes threat for analysis; wolves love it because it keeps options open.
• #809 – Self-clear & herding. “town: waluigi / the big boss / kirikoe; everyone else prove yourselves.” Tries to crown a towncore with himself in it, without evidence, and push everyone else into POE.
• #811 – inconsistency. Claims “my day 2 vote was for stargate,” while EoD2 ended on Hunty with 4 votes (TBB/Kirikoe/Gutsy/Rohan). That’s either memory convenient to the narrative or an attempt to rewrite positioning.
• #864 - #866 – Opportunism contradiction. Calls early voting “very sus” (#864) then immediately drops a temp vote on AnimePigeon the moment Waluigi does (#866), despite having sold Rohan/Stargate all day. That’s riding fresh momentum, not pushing his own stated solves.
• Martyr (earlier). “My death might be the only to unify the town.” Self-sacrifice framing is classic AtE; it pressures town to stop questioning him instead of producing receipts.

How many games have you played ?

 

[The Big Boss]

So because you stopped accusing me i should just drop my wolf take on you? when you havent been shown to not be, as Waluigi said you had to prove it.

I’m not getting banned for you lol

I would love to prove you wrong, but I have more important people to focus on right now.

 

[Gutsy]

Thank you, this is a huge help.

I will compare this to their isos and even pair it up with the post numbers.

If everything youre saying is true, I can identify it in the game record. I believe stuff that is true and in the game record more than I believe "sus" without a case and reactive "voting whoever votes you" kinda stuff.

@Gutsy

Do you therefore then believe the murders are meant to frame stargate, or someone else?

Or were they just town PR hunts?

PR hunts, not a doc-frame. N1 hit a JOAT, N2 hit a DV, classic utility trims. If they wanted to frame Stargate, they’d shoot into an obvious-protect and then spam “why no save?” the next day; we haven’t seen that. I still want Stargate’s N1/N2 targets on record, but pending that, these look like power removals.

 

[Waluigi]

@Waluigi

Posts from big boss that concern me and read to me as wolf:

• #803 – Naked wolf list. “Wolf: rohan / gutsy / animepigeon.” No quotes, no reasons. Classic agenda-setting without risk.
• #806 – appeal. “Accusing me D3 is all I need to hear.” That’s not a case; it’s “you suspect me → you’re scum,” which is wolfy defensiveness.
• #808 – Policy shade. “Lazy townies will be treated like wolves.” Policy framing substitutes threat for analysis; wolves love it because it keeps options open.
• #809 – Self-clear & herding. “town: waluigi / the big boss / kirikoe; everyone else prove yourselves.” Tries to crown a towncore with himself in it, without evidence, and push everyone else into POE.
• #811 – inconsistency. Claims “my day 2 vote was for stargate,” while EoD2 ended on Hunty with 4 votes (TBB/Kirikoe/Gutsy/Rohan). That’s either memory convenient to the narrative or an attempt to rewrite positioning.
• #864 - #866 – Opportunism contradiction. Calls early voting “very sus” (#864) then immediately drops a temp vote on AnimePigeon the moment Waluigi does (#866), despite having sold Rohan/Stargate all day. That’s riding fresh momentum, not pushing his own stated solves.
• Martyr (earlier). “My death might be the only to unify the town.” Self-sacrifice framing is classic AtE; it pressures town to stop questioning him instead of producing receipts.

See this is already likely to come from town, imo. Whether youre right on Big Boss or not.

Because, you have now just done more work backing up your suspicions and making them concrete, moreso than anyone else in the game so far, sans myself, basically.

@The Big Boss

I asked something similar of stargate.

If you have time, grab something like this, to bolster your suspicions on rohan, and stargate, and anyone else you suspect.

Like gutsy here.

Spoiler: more jibber jabber.

If you want to. I understand the game has been going poorly and your morale and WIM might be low.

But if thats done by the time i get back from physical therapy it would be immensely helpful in reading you.

Post numbers and a short blurb why it bolsters your beliefs.

Even if I dont agree with your conclusion, I can town read it, if it looks like real belief.

Like, the above- lets say I still believe youre town.

Well, Gutsy's post here looks like it came from a townie. if thats true, the way you and I and gutsy win the game, is by posts like that.

Its okay to suspect each other- for legitimate reasons. Half of the games I ever solved were based off of town reading someone who suspected me in a way I thought didnt come from a wolf.

That kind of soberness and sanity is what wins games.

 

[Waluigi]

@Waluigi
I stopped accusing gutsy based on your idea, but he doesn’t seem cooperative.

This is normal. Be patient.

 

[Gutsy]

How many games have you played ?

Sounds like this is besides the point, and you do not want to dicuss with me or even discuss in here. you simply deflect or ride along on others decisions.

 

[The Big Boss]

Sounds like this is besides the point, and you do not want to dicuss with me or even discuss in here. you simply deflect or ride along on others decisions.

Bet me.

I’m town. Your accusing me of being a wolf.

when it’s revealed I’m town you owe me all your kin and kumi.

 

[The Big Boss]

This is normal. Be patient.

I’ll try.

 

[Waluigi]

PR hunts, not a doc-frame. N1 hit a JOAT, N2 hit a DV, classic utility trims. If they wanted to frame Stargate, they’d shoot into an obvious-protect and then spam “why no save?” the next day; we haven’t seen that. I still want Stargate’s N1/N2 targets on record, but pending that, these look like power removals.

Nice.

It's apparent to me youve thought about the game pretty deeply. There doesnt seem to be a lot of avenues unexplored.

You have answers of thoughtfulness and depth no matter what I ask.

That's impressive if youre a wolf. And badly needed if youre town.'

Gutsy, Big Boss, regardless how you feel about each other's alignments- dont let it get under your skin or let it feel personal.

Is only game. Only a game. And you can suspect and vote each other today or tomorrow, just avoid doing something like this-

1. dont destroy the relationship. dont make it so that its more important to you that the other person is removed from the game, than winning the game.

2. dont destroy the game. if the game isnt fun, take a break.

I think this might apply to TBB more than you Gutsy, but just, your suspicions on each other are on record.

Its okay now. Your votes are also your own, just dont push it past the point of "i guess you are a wolf", because youre already at maximum of accusing each other, and I dont want the game to become unfun for either of you.

Its also pretty clear to me, that you are not wolves together.

You are a townie and a wolf, or two townies.

So its important that I TRY to work with both of you and make a clear headed decision.

And I also need to close my eyes and rest before my therapy, so please.... please.... let it be a professional disagreement and never personal, while I'm gone.

So you both can be my friends after the game, and you can both BE friends after the game.

If at all possible.

 

[Waluigi]

Is that cool, to request of you both?

Suspecting each other is fine. Be cordial and civil and let it be, suspicion is okay, vote is okay, but let's not aggravate each other or let it get under the skin. especially while im gone.

because i feel like, you're both grasping onto me as a beacon of civility and sanity, and i dont want that to vanish just because I did.

heh.

 

[Waluigi]

Its a good clean game so far, I want it to stay that way, and I feel youre fine, Gutsy, btw, on this.

Youve been pretty professional about it. Boss, just dont let it get to you. And I close my eyes now.

 

[Waluigi]

Hugs to everyone, even if youre a wolf.

Games get competitive and adversarial but its all part of the game and we're not fighting.

Our imaginary characters are fighting, and we root for them, and tell them what to do. But we are not those characters.

We're friends and our pretend people we were assigned are fighting. But we're not fighting.

Thats the rule in my house. hehe.