What is going on rn in Boruto?
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Sagebee
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As for the juubi personally think it's a different one we learn that each ototsuchi members have partners the guy we see likely is kaguya partner. Would be interesting that two ototsuchi members of the same planet both ate the god fruit.
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Maybe if you actually read our debates you would know neither of us is actually debating whether the attack landed or he if he avoided in the manga. He mentioned it in his argument but we both said it wasn’t clear. Our focus is whether Sasuke’s intent was to pierce him with Chidori and we were comparing the manga and the anime since they portrayed that moment differently.
Please enlighten me. Where did I contradict myself? I did read my replies, I posted them. Quote me where I was arguing about the attack hitting Naruto in the manga because I’m pretty sure my argument was about if Sasuke’s intent was to pierce Naruto. So tell me exactly where in your reply did you answer my question? Seems to me like you’re the one who’s quick to argue.Maybe if you read your own reply thoroughly, you’d see where you contradicted yourself.Fail, and if you weren’t so quick to argue, you’d also see where I answered your question.
Well if you insist, refer to the bold:
>Neither of us is actually debating whether the attack landed or he if he avoided in the manga
Contradiction:
>He mentioned it in his argument but we both said it wasn’t clear.
Those are your own words, and clearly you were debating whether the attack landed or not.
Here’s an additional snippet.
Again, you contracted yourself and were quick to argue. And I answered the question of whether or not Sasuke’s chidori made FULL contact in the manga. As for the piercing aspect, obviously it was to pierce and not to punch as @luke tried to say but Luke’s known for talking out of his ass.
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Lukecetion
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You might want to enlighten us all on how this makes logical sense. When Naruto is "hit" by the Chidori he is quite literately thrown to the side (not straight backwards) with such velocity that he has to use his upper body as support when he lands so that he doesn't just fall over and into the water. A piercing attack moves straight forward, not sideways and had he been hit directly by the tip if the Chidori (and not the side of it) then he would have been launched towards Madara's statue, not the water. The only way for Sasuke to both hit with the tip of the technique and launch Naruto towards the water would be if either;
A) Sasuke teleported behind Naruto, then moved to Naruto's side and attacked him.
B) Naruto was able to move to Sasuke's right side before he could hit him, and decided to do this as opposed to jumping away.
The Chidori would either need to have been deflected by Naruto entirely and the force from the attack would have launched him, or he wasn't hit with the tip of the technique but rather the side of it, sending him flying.
Side Note: You're also extremely talented at taking things out of context to suit your argument(s) its seems and you continue to have the bad habit of focusing more on personal attacks as opposed to discussing the topic.
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I can see how there was confusion. Refer to my original comment which is my original argument. I was only discussing Sasuke’s intention with the Chidori. When I replied with whether Naruto avoided the attack it was when Luke brought it up which is the only reason I mentioned it in my comment.
For proof you can check for yourself from my comments my focus in the argument. I wasn’t debating it I only touched up on it which is why I left it as it wasn’t clear and proceeded with my main argument.
This is the reason why I wrote what I wrote after your first reply. I knew I was never talking about that subject which is why I said you never answered my question since my question was never about the attack making full contact on Naruto.
Lukecetion
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I second this. We know from the location where Momoshiki was defeated that there exists more than one Shinju and we know that the Juubi we saw was nothing but a "combat stance" for the Shinju so to speak. It was the Shinju in a different shape. Hence as there exists more than one Shinju then it stands to reason that there would be more than one Juubi.
Be that as it may, I settled the matter in its entirety by answering all of the relevant questions in my various replies. Again, I implore you to not take Luke’s “arguments” seriously. Very rarely does his posts contain rational thought.
Yes I can see that. Thank you. As for Luke I can understand what his points about the subject but it’s hard agree with him since because of the anime.
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I think that is because he threw a hook with the chidori that is why he was thrown to the side.
Lukecetion
Member
In that case we'd be talking about a slash, not a pierce. We can think of the Chidori as a "Blade" in its shape, as it has also been referred to as such. Meaning that "throwing a hook" with it would result in you hitting with either flat side depending on which way you hit, which is what I illustrated earlier in the thread. If Sasuke did indeed do this then he had no intention of stabbing Naruto with it, and perfectly hit his attack in the intended manner.
My only gripe with him hitting intended is because of the poor angle work in the manga, a trait of Kishimoto's. The angle is drawn from over Sasuke's shoulder where we see him pointing his hand directly at Naruto without twisting his back. This would only occur if he hit Naruto dead on and the only way Naruto would be thrown in the water at this point is if Sasuke was standing at Naruto's side, not his back.
I'd therefore wager that the anime is correct in its interpretation and as you stated just now. That Sasuke never intended to pierce/stab Naruto with the Chidori, but to punch/slap/slash him with it to send him flying. The only logical way for Sasuke to have aimed a stab and sent Naruto flying is if Naruto had time to move from in front of Sasuke to his right hand side and having Sasuke turn to follow him, resulting in him being thrown towards the water as opposed to Madara's statue.
Umari Senju
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And without Sasuke even trying no less lol.
On Point: both are feeling Jigen out. Naruto did the same thing with Delta. Feigning weakness before learning her moves and then upping the power. Naruto hasn’t sprouted a single cloak tail yet.
Sasuke is doing the same thing. He is using mostly tai and kenjutsu while utilizing his Sharingan to understand Jigen’s movements and abilities. Jigen recognized it and comments on it.
They are naturally going to get tagged a few times because they are learning his abilities. Same thing happen to Jigen.
Notice how they started tagging him once they figured out his tech? Sasuke said it himself even though the technique is simple, it’s extremely difficult to counter. He not only shrinks the rods but himself as well.
Jigen is about to turn the juice up with...whatever that is coming out of his stomach. Incoming tail beast most and Susanoo/rinnegan techs are not that far behind.
Most importantly IT’S JIGEN THE BIG BAD! why do you all expect Naruto and Sasuke to just stomp the MAIN VILLAIN (at the moment) so easily when it’s not meant for them to beat him storywise. This is Boruto’s Villain.
At best they fight him to a standstill. At worst they loose/escape. Writing 101 folks. Naruto and Sasuke aren’t meant to beat him. Kawaki/Boruto are.
Ansatsuken
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We're not looking for them to ass whoop Jigen but actually just want author to not nerfing Naruto and Sasuke.
It's when you've seen all Rinnegan tech and all kind of moon level jutsu from Naruto doesn't work on Jigen then we safely can say that Jigen is a big threat just like Kaguya.
Lukecetion
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And we will more than likely either see this or it will occur off-screen and we will be told about it. The story is still progressing and saying that Kodachi is ruining the characters because people judge their abilities before a fight, let alone their story is finished is just flat out a horrible thing to do. You should never judge creative work when its unfinished and this is even more apparent when you take stories.
If you were to judge "Naruto" based on only what occurred in Part 1 then you would have a vastly different opinion than if you judge it based on everything that occurred in Part 1 and 2. As stated by @Umari Senju above, they are feeling each other out and testing each other's abilities. This is something Naruto and Sasuke also did against Madara and Kaguya later on before trying to at it with full force with mixed results.
This is also a writing trope of creating tension and buildup. This is also clearly shown when fighting Momoshiki where the duo starts by utilizing simple Taijutsu and combos and ramp up the power they use as the battle goes on.
Ansatsuken
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And what other high level ability that Sasuke or Naruto have tested on Jigen besides Clones, Rasengan and a Simple taijutsu?
I don't see what they does in chapter 37 can be categorized as testing each other. Jigen has tested Naruto and Sasuke using some of his unique tech but Naruto or most importantly Sasuke never used some of his unique tech like Ama or Ameno to test level one Jigen. It's nonsensical.
And because he couldn't defeat Naruto and Sasuke using his lame ass tech Jigen chose to transform to second level. After he has tested them. I found it laughable.
Against Madara and Kaguya Naruto and Sasuke used their best/unique tech to test them. Sasuke used Ama on Rinn Tensei Madara and Ameno+Black Chidori sword on Kaguya. He even tested Kaguya using PS.
Ok I made it simple, if Naruto and Sasuke never used any of their best technique on Jigen in the future I will find you.
Lukecetion
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There is a huge difference here and it derives from context of the story. By the time they were facing up against Madara they already had a good idea of what he would be capable of doing. Naruto and Sasuke were also largely unaware of what they themselves could do at this point. Hence they weren't testing Madara, they were testing their new abilities and powers. They already knew what Madara could do and they already knew what someone in possession of the Juubi could do. Sasuke isn't aware of what Heavenly Hand Power can do yet and as a result has to test it out.
He realizes the power and what it can do and opts to try and defeat Madara with it before he can figure out how it works. Hence the straight on assault using said technique. Afterwards realizing that Madara understands the ability he doesn't overuse it anymore as the element of surprise is entirely gone. As for Naruto, the only "new" power he uses against Madara was in defense and stalling, specifically Lava Release and Truth-Seeker Orbs. One of those he has already used as an adult and the second he can no longer use as he is no longer in possession of the Orbs.
There is also no reason to use Lava Release: Rasenshuriken on Jigen as he can absorb it and they are fighting in close range, hence a long range attack won't do much. To further add to this, against Madara, neither party knew entirely what Naruto and Sasuke could do yet. Against Jigen it is the opposite as Jigen has proven to hold a fair share of information regarding the two opponents where as they have nothing on Jigen. Madara also took the same stance as they did once he realized they had gained new power somehow as he originally charged at them, then realized they had gained power and went on the defensive to feel them out.
Against Kaguya they were originally on the defensive as Naruto was fixated on trying to save the others. Kaguya was attacking with large portions of chakra, a full frontal assault at them. Of course they would answer with equal measure of chakra to block or avoid it. Jigen isn't doing that, he is attacking with a unique technique and seems to require little chakra, of course they won't try to block his small attacks by wasting large portions of chakra unless they need to.
I'd also like to point out that Naruto and Sasuke didn't opt to use their strongest techniques or a great deal of chakra when they attacked Kaguya as they were mostly on the defensive, especially early on. The first time the two attacked her together they did so using Amaterasu and Reverse-Sexy No Jutsu. Hardly what I'd call "planet level" techniques. The rest of the fight is mostly them on the defensive as they try to reunite with each other for one final attack at which point they have gotten a pretty good idea of what Kaguya can do and she continues to attack then with large portions of chakra.
Let's say Naruto and Sasuke decides to try and nuke Jigen at this point in time. From what we know he could absorb or teleport out of the way, rendering that approach pointless. Lets say they use Heavenly Hand Power to displace him and try and attack him right away, he can just shrink and teleport like he's already done when they did corner him, rendering that approach pointless. They don't even know if Jigen can be killed by normal means nor if he has more techniques so rushing in close to him without plan isn't an option.
Hence the part of them feeling him out and trying to understand his abilities and as Sasuke alluded to, there is more to him than just his teleportation and shrinking abilities.
If this is the case and its never explained then sure, that would be bad writing. If it isn't explain in a way that makes sense within the context of the story then it isn't bad writing. Then again, we already know that their "best techniques" would be utterly pointless against Jigen as most if not all chakra based attacks are useless against him.
Ansatsuken
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You're Not addressing my main point. So it is pointless.
I'm talking about EMS Sasuke vs Blind Rinn Tensei Madara.
You're Not addressing my main point. So it is pointless.
I'm talking about EMS Sasuke vs Blind Rinn Tensei Madara.
Naruto is not part of my subject.
I know that. I know why Adult Naruto not using elemental Rasenshuriken on Jigen. And since many of his previous gifted jutsu have gone and he also couldn't access full Six Path transformation Naruto doesn't have many unique jutsu to used against Jigen. And most of the jutsu Naruto currently has are not effective against Jigen. And I think Naruto knows that.
How much info about Naruto and Sasuke does Jingen holds? And what infos he knows?
That's my point. You need to test your opponent first to get to know about your opponent. So then you can plan on something, setting back your strategy and also build your awareness about your opponent's power. It's better to know about your opponent sooner than later.
You look by yourself, Madara has used his unique tech to attack Naruto and Sasuke and simultaneously testing them. By doing that he get to studied their opposition's capability.
Sasuke should do the same against Jigen to know what Jigen can do and can't do. Jigen can absorb chakra using his palm(Karma seal) but can Jigen absorb Amaterasu using his body if Sasuke burn his body or both of his arm?
Against Kaguya I only speak about Sasuke here. And also at the beginning of Kaguya arc. Sasuke had used Ameno+Black Chidori sword to attack Kaguya that at the same time still not finished transforming. But the attack had no effect on Kaguya at all.
In the lava dimension Sasuke used his PS to attack and testing Kaguya.
And I don't ask them to counter Jigen's attack using large scale jutsu. But Why Sasuke not using Sharingan super illusion on Jigen or Why Naruto not using super CES punch on Jigen? They both are good at strategy making. So they can work this out.
We're currently talking about testing your opponent so just use whatever jutsu you think is effective be it low chakra jutsu or higher chakra jutsu to test your opponent. PS that Sasuke used on Kaguya in the earlier battle required large amount of chakra but Sasuke still wanted to use it.
You also pointed out about Ama and Sexy no jutsu
So here Sasuke need to test some of his Rinnegan tech on Jigen no matter the result.
Testing can translate to education. It can give you a knowledge about your opponent's capabilities, can and cant do, their weaknesses and also your own limits, capability against this opponent, and weaknesses.
How you want to know about something if you never test it out??? Battle Field is not a theory making class.
We're currently talking about testing Jigen and not killing Jigen.
And the say is in Kodachi's hand, not you.
I will waiting to see that.
I'm waiting.
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Lukecetion
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Then you ought to be more specific in your wording. Nowhere in your post do you specify which incarnation of either Naruto or Sasuke and the only time you address only Sasuke you mention Heavenly Hand Power, a Rinnegan power he obtained after gaining the Rinnegan. I addressed the fight against Madara and Kaguya after they had obtained their new powers from Hagoromo. How the hell should I know that you were talking about fights before that when all I have to go by is "Naruto and Sasuke didn't use their best abilities like Heavenly Hand Power and "Black Chidori Blade" (that isn't a thing btw, the Chidori Blade was blue in color.)
Jigen clearly knows about the Rinnegan and Naruto's Bijuu power. He also clearly knows that Naruto possess a lot of power as he believed him to be more dangerous than Sasuke, something Jigen admits was a mistake as he didn't take Sasuke's intellect into account. I also like how you are arguing with yourself at this point. You are upset that Naruto and Sasuke haven't gone all out yet, but you also state that your "point" is that they are just testing each other out. You have to decide on either one.
The reason Sasuke isn't using Amaterasu is because it can be absorbed. The reason he isn't trying to use Heavenly Hand Power is that he both has limited uses of it and he knows Jigen has Time-Space/Dimensional Techniques that may be able to cancel out Heavenly Hand Power. Hence just like against Madara and Kaguya before him, it is better to wait for an opening before using it rather than just throwing it straight at him to see if he can counter it.
This is also inaccurate. Madara already possessed a huge amount of knowledge about the world, including Sasuke's Sharingan abilities as he had already seen them in action before that. Furthermore he was likely paying attention to them as they fought Obito. Madara was so certain of himself that he rushed to attack them and as a result he got hit several times and almost lost because of it, prompting him to retreat. He didn't bother to test out their new abilities and paid the price because of it. It wasn't until he almost lost that he started to study their powers, commenting on how he was learning more about them.
The way he ended up testing this was using Limbo and attacking by himself as for some reason when you become the Juubi Jin you lose all logical sense to use Elemental Releases and other abilities other than some random ones.
Momoshiki absorbed from the palm of his hand as well and was able to absorb Shikamaru's Shadow Style that was wrapped around his entire body. If Karma works even remotely same to Rinnegan (which is looks based on how it is drawn) then it absorbs in a sphere around the contact point, in this case the palm. Something Sasuke would've noticed almost instantly when the ability was used. This approach would also be entirely pointless considering they would be able to sense his chakra and whenever or not he is a threat.
If a standard human Madara shrugged off Amaterasu as if it was nothing, then why would someone who was infinitely more powerful with the ability to absorb chakra be affected by it?
Sasuke never used "Black Chidori Blade" to attack Kaguya as such a technique doesn't exist. When Madara was originally turning into Kaguya he prepared a Chidori Blade and tried to attack, said attack never connected as he was caught before he could try to hit her. Later in the fight he uses Heavenly Hand Power and a standard Chidori to try and catch Kaguya off-guard, something she dodges. This was also towards the end of the fight and he wasn't testing her, he was going in to try and injure her.
At this point Sasuke had already seen that she could attack with immense amount of chakra that could easily rival Naruto and overpower him. He also cannot fly without Susano'o or a Summon. What would you have him do? Teleport into the middle of the air and fall down and die? His only option was to use Susano'o, regardless of if he was testing her abilities or not. He had already tried to keep a distance, that didn't work, now he needed to get close and the only options he had was Hawk Summon or Susano'o and out of those only the Susano'o would be able to protect him from an all out attack.
Sasuke isn't particularly good at Genjutsu to begin with and anyone who is remotely good at chakra control would just break it instantly. Him having fought Itachi you should think he understands that by default. There is no point in trying to waste chakra on Jigen and it also require eye contact. There is also no point in a narrative sense to include this as an attempt because we as readers already know it doesn't work.
If Naruto forms any fists of chakra to attack Jigen it will just get absorbed instantly, rendering it entirely pointless. They work well together which is why they managed to catch Jigen off-guard and surprise him to the point where he was afraid he might lose and decided to retreat from the fight.
As mentioned above in regards to Susano'o. Sasuke didn't really have much of a choice. It also stands to reason that you don't use most of your power on testing, otherwise you won't be able to fight later on. This is why when you install lights in a house you use "testing bulbs" and not expensive ones in-case something goes wrong. Wasting large amounts of chakra to see if someone who likely can avoid it is getting hit or not isn't a smart thing to do. This is also why you don't send in an army before you know what you're up against in real warfare either.
As mentioned earlier in this thread. The majority of Rinnegan Techniques won't work against Jigen or be utterly redundant such as Human Path. The other abilities requires set up and can be avoided if the opponent is in possession of Time-Space/Dimensional Techniques, which Jigen is. The only thing that is questionable if he can avoid is Heavenly Hand Power which has a severe limited use before it goes on a cooldown. Hence it is better saved when you think it can be of use rather than spamming it and wasting it to "test". Its better to test when you have an opening with such an ability.
Amaterasu, Elemental Releases, Genjutsu, Susano'o and basic Shuriken Techniques isn't going to affect Jigen and Sasuke was aware of this before the fight started. There is no reason for him to use chakra to test something he already knows.
The ultimate goal is to kill him. Every single test has to be an attempt to kill or defeat him, otherwise the test won't be beneficial. If Sasuke for example uses a weak Amaterasu or Heavenly Hand Power to move Jigen a feet to the side to test if he can avoid them then it serves no purpose as he didn't need to avoid either. Hence they have to test when they have an opening which is exactly what they did when they figured out that Jigen cannot move and absorb at the same time.
Ansatsuken
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I stated it clearly in my earlier post,
"Sasuke used Ama on Rinne Tensei Madara"
I have given you one specific Madara. So next time before you start posting read carefully first
Do you have an eye problem?
So Jigen knew about 6 path jutsu, outer path and Sasuke S/T jutsu????
Give me evidence please. I would never listen to your invalidated unofficial opinions.
You're the one who talking about "testing" so I just being on topic or addressing the subject that you have brought in our discussion. This subject(Testing) was your own "point" to begin with.
Nah I'm not even upset but I can smell nerfing incoming. And I never asked for Naruto or Sasuke to go all out in the recent chapter but enough if Sasuke for example used some of his Rinnegan tech on Jigen like BT or ST.
Besides attacking and testing Jigen we also can get a confirmation that Sasuke not only can use CT but BT and ST too. That's the point here.
That's what I told people earlier "if Jigen is really the main villain he should be able to counter all jutsu from Naruto and Sasuke. He should faces all these and triumph".
And I don't want to read a theory/opinion from random reader like you but only Manga feats. Then you can speak. If I'm asking you to provide me with manga fact you sure would fail to provide one.
Weak opinion. Show me the evidence that Jigen can absorb Ama if Sasuke burn his arm like he did to 3rd Rikage. 3rd Rikage need to cut his arm to survive.
Your point on Amenotejikara is weak, not being back up by Manga. How do you know it will not gonna work when there's no such attempt happened in the manga and no confirmation from Sasuke???? No one ever said to people that Kamui snipe couldn't counter Yomotsu Hirasaka because Kaguya is stronger than Kakashi. But it works because Kishimoto want it to work/happen.
Of course Amenotejikara has limit(Range limit). We all know that. But it certainly not the kind of limit that's set by you. So what kind of limit you're talking about here? Back by what?
The most chakra taxing S/T jutsu that Sasuke has is Dimensional portal opening. It gives Sasuke lots of drawback.
So I don't see a problem here for Sasuke to use this instant teleportation tech against Jigen. I think Ameno is much faster than Kamui like teleportation of Jigen. Just look at FTG vs Kamui.
But he doesnt know about Amenotejikara and the existence of 6 Tomoes Rinnegan.
And it's good for him for doing that because it would give him an experience, exposure and knowledge about Sasuke Rinnegan's power. He did something right/necessary as Juubi Jin. Even in the Chapter 37 of Boruto manga you can see Naruto/Sasuke attacked Jigen using close combat and they get surprise attack from Jigen(Black Rod technique). But that's good for them. In return they gained an experience and knowledge about Jigen technique after attacking/testing Jigen earlier.
"You learn from experience"
Madara needed an exposure first so he can learn something. Because he's Juubi Jin with spiritual clone he can afford to do this kind of testing.
Karma could be similar to Red Rinnegan when it comes to absorption mechanism but it still not clear if it can perform Kaguya's absorption technique or Rinne Tensei Madara's absorption technique.
And can Jigen sense Jutsu chakra build-up like Jubito did?
That's playing to your logic that's being moulded by ABC logic since many years ago.
And that's clearly not standard Madara but Rinne Tensei Madara with six path chakra.
It doesn't matter if the sword is black or blue but my point is Sasuke was using some of his Unique tech he had(Amenotejikara+Chidori) to attack the strongest villain in Naruto, Kaguya. And not taijutsu or normal sword. But he only used Taijutsu against Jigen. Very laughable.
Testing your opponent is your subject. I need to address it because of your. But my subject here is "using your unique jutsu against your opponent, be it to test them or to kill them" where Sasuke is yet to show it in the manga.
Sasuke know how strong is Kaguya even without seeing first what Kaguya capable of doing. He was the one that stated that Kaguya chakra level is higher than JJ Madara. He saw Madara creates dozens of super Chibaku Tensei so its right to believe that Sasuke could be thinking that Kaguya also can produce massive scale attack. I think Sasuke was not very surprise when he saw Chakra fist attacks from Kaguya. He still not learning how to levitate yet so he sure needs PS. Yes that's his only option but my point still stands, Sasuke chose to used his best jutsu to fight Kaguya.
Hahaha...so someone who weak in Genjutsu can put 9 beasts inside Genjutsu and paralyzed them
What a bull shit post coming from you.
Tell me anyone other than Itachi that can battled Sasuke's genjutsu.
And what is Jigen's counter to Genjutsu? And Sasuke's current Genjutsu is on high level. He never need a direct eye contact. Go read VOTE 2 BATTLE
For your last point, only you believe that.
Im not talking about chakra fist like he used to counter Kaguya's attack but the one he used on Toneri.
The Taijutsu one aka CES punch.
LOL who said all the high level jutsu would consume 60% of you chakra reserve. If you put more chakra into your fireball jutsu the fireball becomes bigger, if you put less chakra the fireball is smaller. Sasuke used Amaterasu on Madara or Kaguya like nothing. And Sasuke doesn't show any problem/body constraint/difficulty when he called out PS. It tells you that PS not consume a lot of Sasuke's chakra compares to Amenotejikara/Dimensional travel.
When you're fighting with someone like Kaguya you need to use high level jutsu, not just to defeat her but to test her too. You shouldn't use low level Taijutsu or normal weapons to fight/test her. Because it Will bring nothing significant for you. You just wasting your energy trying something that doesn't work against Kaguya
The "testing bulb" analogy is completely not precise to used here.
Just your own opinions that aren't back by Manga fact/feats.
Some of it may work.
Of course. That's why they need to test Jigen using any jutsu they have in the situation that present them an opportunity. So you can't rule out any usage of Rinnegan jutsu against Jigen in the future.
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