Pioneering badluck

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

Is Kishimoto just a hardcore believer of succession or is it realistically true that the pioneers are always beat in their own work by someone else that learns it?

In Naruto, all the guys that came up with the most creative techniques of highest pioneering level have all been beat by someone else at a later point. Tobirama created 3 major techniques and ALL 3 were refined by another shinobi and used more proficiently. Minato invented the Rasengan, only a decade down the line to be surpassed by his own son. Kakashi taught Sasuke Chidori and Sasuke brought Chidori to a whole new level with new variants.

So when does the pioneering guy ever win? Was there ever a time in the series where the pioneer actually never got surpassed by someone else in their own creation? ?

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Technically speaking a pioneer will always be surpassed in that aspect. It’s a lot easier to refine something than it is to create something from scratch

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Well Sasuke being Indra reincarnation in his prime didn't surpass Madara in his prime who is previous Indra incarnation despite fact that Naruto did surpass previous incarnation.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Well Sasuke being Indra reincarnation in his prime didn't surpass Madara in his prime who is previous Indra incarnation despite fact that Naruto did surpass previous incarnation.

Indra and Madara died against Ashura and Hashirama whereas Sasuke didn't die against Naruto.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Indra and Madara died against Ashura and Hashirama whereas Sasuke didn't die against Naruto.

Sasuke died against Madara another Indra reincarnation so another pioneering badluck for Sasuke .

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Sasuke died against Madara another Indra reincarnation so another pioneering badluck for Sasuke .

Dying against a guy whose very similar to you except 100 years older is better than dying to your rival or a fodder (Black Zetsu) after achieving ultimate power.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Dying against a guy whose very similar to you except 100 years older is better than dying to your rival or a fodder (Black Zetsu) after achieving ultimate power.

Still better than being killed by your own sword.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Still better than being killed by your own sword.

You sure?

Madara was salty that he was being screwed out the Hokage position so he ditched the village when even his clan didn't side with him - their former leader. Current being Hashirama followed by Tobirama.

He then waged war against Hashirama. Except he was too scared to fight alone so he captured the Kyuubi, yet was still solo'd.

After that he sat in a cave for several decades without any necessities (food, attractive women, friends, family, etc), waiting for Hashirama to die or whatever he was doing/not doing.

Then, when he was revived, and gained ultimate power he was solo'd by Black Zetsu who had been manipulating him the entire time, used his body to revive Kaguya who spat him out like flavorless gum.

Then he spends his last moments speaking with Hashirama even admitting that he was wrong.

This is far worse than 100 + Madara year old stabbing Sasuke who returned the favor minutes later and watched him be destroyed by Black Zetsu.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Naruto's henge and harem jutsus aren't being outdone anytime soon. Not until someone snares multiple gods with either.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

You sure?

Madara was salty that he was being screwed out the Hokage position so he ditched the village when even his clan didn't side with him - their former leader. Current being Hashirama followed by Tobirama.

He then waged war against Hashirama. Except he was too scared to fight alone so he captured the Kyuubi, yet was still solo'd.

After that he sat in a cave for several decades without any necessities (food, attractive women, friends, family, etc), waiting for Hashirama to die or whatever he was doing/not doing.

Then, when he was revived, and gained ultimate power he was solo'd by Black Zetsu who had been manipulating him the entire time, used his body to revive Kaguya who spat him out like flavorless gum.

Then he spends his last moments speaking with Hashirama even admitting that he was wrong.

This is far worse than 100 + Madara year old stabbing Sasuke who returned the favor minutes later and watched him be destroyed by Black Zetsu.

Yes I am sure none of thing you mentioned is worse than being stabbed by your own sword and eating dust.

 

[shelke]

Well, we can all agree that Sakura didn't surpass anything: she didn't invent shit; she didn't improve shit; she didn't formulate shit. Her progression's been a stuff of comedies compared to the likes of Sasuke and Naruto, especially Sasuke, despite the fact that she had so little to work with and improve on; and she couldn't even accomplish that. Sad.

I disagree on Minato surpassing Tobirama's FTG itself: Tobirama's more versatile by a country-mile. Minato did invent another variant of it, so I give him the credit there; however, FTG itself? Nah. Also, wanting Sasuke to surpass someone, Madara, who was well over twice his age at his prime's is pretty fucking stupid. When Madara's literally the most tame version of Indra: even his Uchiha arsenal's abysmal, let alone versatile Ninjutsu that Sasuke does a lot of Justice as Indra invented Ninjutsu.

Demanding the aforementioned 17-year-old to surpass the original progenitor is even more laughable when the said 17-year-old masterfully created a Mezo out of nothing and perfectly used Indra's Arrow on his first try. Let's see if Indra was capable of such a feat. According to Kurama, he wasn't. Whoops. But some here would suggest that Sakura would be in similar situations.