Why Minato and Kakashi failed at Raiton: Rasengan

Uzumaki Bolt

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During the original series, it was made clear that Minato originally wanted the Rasengan to be Raiton based. Having failed to do so, he settled for the regular Rasengan, which itself was plenty powerful as a finisher. When he tried it, he understood the inner workings of a TBB, and probably understood the chakra ratio required for that. He still failed.

Kakashi tried his own luck at this, but his attempt landed him with the Chidori. It's unlikely that Kakashi understood the workings of a TBB, seeing as he never bothered helping Naruto out with it, at any point in time.

Naruto became the first person to apply Nature to the Rasengan, but he only managed it with Wind at first. He later did it with Lava, Magnet Release, Bubble Release, and what not, but never Lightning. In the games, Jiraiya cooked up a Katon Rasengan, but that's just videogame filler.

That brings us to the surprise revelation that Boruto's Vanishing Rasengan is actually Raiton (which to me is bullshit. A different sort of Fuuton application would have made more sense). I am, however, here to share the results of my attempt to justify it being Raiton anyway, because that's what manga fans do. We make sense of nonsense.

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To answer our question, we'll answer two questions.
1. Why is Raiton so hard, when Fuuton seemed easy enough?
2. What is the difference between Boruto's subconscious application and the conscious attempts of Minato and Kakashi?

For 1. Raiton techniques throughout the series have one thing in common - they're erratic and uncontrolled. They give off sparks that the user has no control over, and such a thing in the shape manipulation that is Rasengan would make things very dangerous very easily. The sole exception to this rule IMO is Vanishing Rasengan, which should tell us something. I'd also say Laser Circus, but that's not exactly Lightning Release. Fuuton techniques, on the other hand are precise, impactful, and disciplined - just the things that made sense in a Rasengan.

Coming to #2., at the start of this post, I mentioned the difference in knowledge between Minato, Kakashi and Boruto.

Minato, knowing what he did, would have theoretically tried to replicate the TBB, complete with chakra ratios (perhaps lightning:normal), and precise spiraling flow. The latter is impossible with Raiton, due to the impossibly erratic nature. Minato thus failed.

Kakashi, from what we knew, theoretically just attempted to make a Rasengan out of Raiton chakra, which succeeded as far as the circular form goes, but the spiraling part failed miserably. In order to match the Kinetic energy that would normally be in the form of the spiraling chakra, he added the dashing movement to it, which resulted in its original weakness of tunnel vision. The incomplete Chidori was born.

Both of them were fixated on using Raiton for this technique, and both of them failed to make the lightning bend to their will.

With Boruto, he never actively tried to use Raiton. When he developed it, he got ideas from Himawari. Moving chakra around in spirals around a set point in place achieved the Rasengan for him. His version of Rasengan, instead of being chakra flowing around inside a shaped ball, was chakra flowing around a focused point in space. Centripetal vs. Centrifugal, if you may. My theory is that he subconsciously applies lightning nature to this focus point. Being in place, and in too small amounts to be useful in combat, the lightning nature doesn't give off the usual sparks, and is contained well by the chakra revolving around it. When he releases it, instead of dispersing like a normal Rasengan, it simply weakens, but remains in motion, due to the attracting nature of the focus point. Too weak to be noticeable to a Byakugan trained for detecting threats, but still strong enough to stagger.



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TL;DR
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Minato tried to emulate TBB with Rasengan. Failed due to erratic nature of lightning.
Kakashi tried a pure lightning Rasengan. Failed to give it a spin and kinetic energy; created Chidori instead.

Boruto reversed the whole equation. Instead of "chakra trapped in a ball trying to get out", he made "chakra rotating around a focal point of focused chakra." His focused chakra became lightning nature by default.


Disclaimer
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Much of this is speculation from my part, and is mostly an attempt to come up with a viable explanation.
 

Joon

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It was made clear that Minato originally wanted the Rasengan to be Raiton-based

False, Kakashi stated Minato intented to combine an "Elemental Recomposition." Kakashi wasn't able to combine Lightning chakra.

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salamander uchiha

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Don't even go there mate Boruto's is a wind rasengan it's natute is to become invisible. Raiton doesn't become invisible never has and never will. Combining a nature transformation with a shape transformation is an S rank skill and beyond. The fact that Boruto did it without training for it or trying shows how bad the writing is and how it shits on Kishi's original work.

Naruto didn't combine any nature with the rasengan save for wind and he needed SCJ assist for it. As time progressed he gained magical ability to do so without them(I guess you could say he progressed) however lava etc were added by the tailed beasts.
 
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ThelUchiha

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I agree with vanishing rasengan/Raiton - which is bullshit to me also. Its more windlike - but they have to give fodderclone something close as Sasuke so he can be cool
 

Uverdore9

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What the ****? The series has been over for the past few years and you're asking this now?
 

Heruvim

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Sasuke called it raiton, therefore the writer's fact > your statement
 
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Don't even go there mate Boruto's is a wind rasengan it's natute is to become invisible. Raiton doesn't become invisible never has and never will. Combining a nature transformation with a shape transformation is an S rank skill and beyond. The fact that Boruto did it without training for it or trying shows how bad the writing is and how it shits on Kishi's original work.

Naruto didn't combine any nature with the rasengan save for wind and he needed SCJ assist for it. As time progressed he gained magical ability to do so without them(I guess you could say he progressed) however lava etc were added by the tailed beasts.




Wrong. Sasuke clearly stated in the momo fight that borutos vanishing rasengan is lightning infused
 

super michael

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Sasuke called it raiton, therefore the writer's fact > your statement

The movie or manga says fuuton while the anime it is raiton, which one of the authors is right then.
 

Jinrou

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Don't know man. It wasn't stated per say Minato wanted to add lightning to it but just a nature. Also, i might be wrong but it seems like you're implying Chidori is a form of incomplete advanced rasengan which i think is wrong. And it isn't that fuuton is easier, Kakashi just couldn't train the way Naruto could.. Or do you think if Naruto's main affinity was lightning and he trained the same way he wouldn't have been successful?

I do like the theory behind how it makes sense that Bolt could have added lightning. Not bad.. Missed these kinds of threads. +rep for pointing out how Bolt learnt from future Goddess Himawari xD
 

InfiniteMugen

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Don't know man. It wasn't stated per say Minato wanted to add lightning to it but just a nature. Also, i might be wrong but it seems like you're implying Chidori is a form of incomplete advanced rasengan which i think is wrong. And it isn't that fuuton is easier, Kakashi just couldn't train the way Naruto could.. Or do you think if Naruto's main affinity was lightning and he trained the same way he wouldn't have been successful?

I do like the theory behind how it makes sense that Bolt could have added lightning. Not bad.. Missed these kinds of threads. +rep for pointing out how Bolt learnt from future Goddess Himawari xD

Didn’t it say kakashi made chidori from trying to add his affinity(raiton) to the rasengan? I could wrong
 

Jinrou

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Didn’t it say kakashi made chidori from trying to add his affinity(raiton) to the rasengan? I could wrong

I think i recollect Kakashi saying he invented Chidori because he couldn't apply his nature to the rasengan at all.. And if the rasengan turned to Chidori because of lightning, then i don't think Kakashi would have said he failed at it.
 

InfiniteMugen

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I think i recollect Kakashi saying he invented Chidori because he couldn't apply his nature to the rasengan at all.. And if the rasengan turned to Chidori because of lightning, then i don't think Kakashi would have said he failed at it.

You might be right, I was thinking more he applied raiton, and it ended up something like chidori(kinda like it’s on the edge of going out of control) and decided to go with that and turn that into a jutsu.

To be completely honest I’m now kinda curious to what a “RRS” would look like, or what a proper infusion of raiton would turn the rasengan into.
 
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Stick your filler where it belongs, it's the nature of wind to be invisible not lightning.

the movie is no longer canon, anime takes precedent.... plus borutos affinity nature is lightning so it makes more sense for it to be raiton infused as opposed to futon
 

salamander uchiha

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the movie is no longer canon, anime takes precedent.... plus borutos affinity nature is lightning so it makes more sense for it to be raiton infused as opposed to futon

The movie is canon, the anime is semi canon(parts in line with the manga) and or pre movie arc. Borat's primary affinity is wind, even if it wasn't the nature of wind is invisible not lightning. I get they're trying to get him closer to Sasuke and ride his nutsack but they can be more realistic or closer to the source material in their approach.
 
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MightGai

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Well, in the manga they never stated that it was fuuton, or any element for that matter so that's still open.

Now, I think you need to see things in a more simpler way: It's not that Raiton is harder to use than Fuuton (which actually depends on the affinity of the nin), it's just that combining chakra shape manipulation with chakra nature affinity is hard. Except for Boruto, who happens to be a main char (and we don't actually still know if the vanishing rasengan did have a chakra nature in it) and Naruto, but he used the kagebunshins to train. Kakashi could do shape (rasengan), could do nature (chidori) but couldn't do both together because that's the hard trick.
 

Yahcob13

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You can't fault Minato and Kakashi for not being god tier. Even Boruto had to practice for two days before he was able to make one.
 
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