Murder or Self Defense? Does it depend on Race?

[InfiniteMugen]

Ok to start off, there’s a state (Florida) that has a somewhat well intentioned stand your ground law. Essentially, this means if your carrying a firearm and are legally allowed to do so, you can shoot someone if you feel threatened. I know this sounds like pretty normal self defense law, but it’s not, it’s very.... loose.

Anyhow, at a convenience store or gas station or something like that, a man saw a car parked in a handicap spot, and decided to start berating the person parked there because they didn’t have a placard. And they weren’t handicapped. So this older dude starts yelling at this lady, her boyfriend comes out and sees it, and pushes the dude down. The dude then proceeds to wait for about... 3-5 seconds while the pusher DOES NOT advance, pulls out his gun and shoots the dude as he’s trying to get away. The dude that got pushed down shot the other guy dead in front of his girlfriend and child, and is getting away with it so far. You’ve probably seen the video, imo it’s clear the dude wasn’t gonna attack him anymore, and it seems like murder. The dude is getting away clean so far due to the stand your ground law.

That being said, the guy that shot, was white, and the guy that died, was black. If it was the other way around, do you think that defense would fly? Just wanted some thoughts on it.

 

[Passerby]

End of the day, man killed a man. It doesn't matter if it was a black man or a pink man.

Murder is murder.

 

[jimbobbity]

Feeling threatened alone isnt enough of a good excuse to allow muder to take place

 

[Adam Driver]

The guy that pushed the old man did assault him. However he didn't advance, if he did advance then yeah the old man is in every right to defend his life with a gun, that was not the case though this was murder not stand your ground because he shot seconds later without the man advancing. But at the end of the day you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. The man that died shouldve never assaulted the old man, period. it's not as if the old man was assaulting his girl, he was yelling at her for occupying the handicap spot which is illegal. Anyways obviously the old man should be charged with murder, but the man that died, it'd be hella silly to victimize him.

 

[Fountain]

i share the same opinion

[video=youtube;tqyv0LnChy4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqyv0LnChy4[/video]

 

[Lightbringer]

So pretty much any time someone pushes you, you have a justifiable excuse to kill that person. What a country!

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

The guy that pushed the old man did assault him. However he didn't advance, if he did advance then yeah the old man is in every right to defend his life with a gun, that was not the case though this was murder not stand your ground because he shot seconds later without the man advancing. But at the end of the day you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. The man that died shouldve never assaulted the old man, period. it's not as if the old man was assaulting his girl, he was yelling at her for occupying the handicap spot which is illegal. Anyways obviously the old man should be charged with murder, but the man that died, it'd be hella silly to victimize him.

This. Justifying it anymore than bold just seems it'd open an easy method for getting attackers to encourage their targets to escalate things to a point where they could argue they felt threatened.

 

[Fountain]

Feeling threatened alone isnt enough of a good excuse to allow muder to take place

What about being physically assaulted? I'm not going defend what the old man did. It looks like an overreaction to me, but you still gotta know better. This is why people get killed. Who does shit like that, like just walk up to someone you don't even know, slam them to the floor and start fronting. Why not confront them like a civilized human being or call the police?

 

[InfiniteMugen]

The guy that pushed the old man did assault him. However he didn't advance, if he did advance then yeah the old man is in every right to defend his life with a gun, that was not the case though this was murder not stand your ground because he shot seconds later without the man advancing. But at the end of the day you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. The man that died shouldve never assaulted the old man, period. it's not as if the old man was assaulting his girl, he was yelling at her for occupying the handicap spot which is illegal. Anyways obviously the old man should be charged with murder, but the man that died, it'd be hella silly to victimize him.

I actually completely agree with you here, well said

So pretty much any time someone pushes you, you have a justifiable excuse to kill that person. What a country!

It’s more to give power to people who feel powerless. To be able to make themselves safe. Unfortunately we’re all still human and some people are just f cked up so it creates that huge gray area. It’s supposed to be if you legit fear for your life, like you might die right there, you can defend yourself with a firearm(im not sure if the law extends to other things, the only time I’ve ever heard it was involving gun cases

This. Justifying it anymore than bold just seems it'd open an easy method for getting attackers to encourage their targets to escalate things to a point where they could argue they felt threatened.

This sums up a big issue. The dude that shot him is know for going around that lot antagonizing people and trying to start shit with petty shit like that, which imo makes it look even more like murder. Like an over eager dude with a conceal and carry that was just itching to shoot someone. People like that make having the right to even own a gun questionable

What about being physically assaulted? I'm not going defend what the old man did. It looks like an overreaction to me, but you still gotta know better. This is why people get killed. Who does shit like that, like just walk up to someone you don't even know, slam them to the floor and start fronting. Why not confront them like a civilized human being or call the police?

This is true as well. The dude could of came out and said some words instead of pushed.

 

[Calpal]

old white dude kept that blicky uh

shits fucked no matter how you look at it.
should he have been pushed? no.
does he deserve to be shot dead for it? no
the old dude should be prosecuted for murder, cuz he would have been fine

 

[minamoto]

The guy that pushed the old man did assault him. However he didn't advance, if he did advance then yeah the old man is in every right to defend his life with a gun, that was not the case though this was murder not stand your ground because he shot seconds later without the man advancing. But at the end of the day you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. The man that died shouldve never assaulted the old man, period. it's not as if the old man was assaulting his girl, he was yelling at her for occupying the handicap spot which is illegal. Anyways obviously the old man should be charged with murder, but the man that died, it'd be hella silly to victimize him.

wow so no bobi lango now..

 

[minamoto]

So pretty much any time someone pushes you, you have a justifiable excuse to kill that person. What a country!

why u alwayz try act like u r teh smartest guy in gerenal tisscussion....armc4 would kick ur ass..

 

[Adam Driver]

So pretty much any time someone pushes you, you have a justifiable excuse to kill that person. What a country!

Obviously not but damn sure it's justifiable if someone bigger and stronger than me pushes me down to the ground and decides to continue assaulting if I try to get back up. This case obviously not as the assaulter didn't progress.

 

[Adam Driver]

wow so no bobi lango now..

bobi when me has to bobi......... minabr0 :Maddy:

 

[minamoto]

bobi when me has to bobi......... minabr0 :Maddy:

Are you high??? cuz i am anti-Bobi...

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...

 

[Chikombo]

It can't be stopped, it's the same when a police sees someone waving a knife and threatening others, just exxagareted, you can't argue people to not do something about it.
Maybe in this particular case, it's escalated violence, like it's not needed for people to go so far.

 

[jimbobbity]

What about being physically assaulted? I'm not going defend what the old man did. It looks like an overreaction to me, but you still gotta know better. This is why people get killed. Who does shit like that, like just walk up to someone you don't even know, slam them to the floor and start fronting. Why not confront them like a civilized human being or call the police?

Thats why this law is pretty sloppy. There are no clear borders and boundaries, and there are too many ways to exploit it to meet your own agenda.

 

[Azarath Metrion Zinthos]

Murder is murder. If he's getting out of it unscathed, then others may exploit this loop-hole. The law messed up on the uptake of this one.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Kill him.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Thats why this law is pretty sloppy. There are no clear borders and boundaries, and there are too many ways to exploit it to meet your own agenda.

This is dead on, the law is so vague that people exploit it. This dude was looking for a reason to use his weapon, he was constantly antagonizing people on that property. The sad thing is I myself have known people a lil too excited to own a firearm