Science, Religion, and Ignorance.

[Lightbringer]

God didn't create the universe in an instant.

If we are created in God's image, then God also does think.

In kind, I presume he did think when he created the universe and it's pretty evident that we're not an inadvertent intelligence as science arrogantly conveys it.

But God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent, we are not. We are finite, he is infinite. You can't make the comparison between him and us. Infinity means having the power to do anything as fast as he wants to.

Theories. Just theories.

And all of them are built on the basis that an explosion, composed of variety of elements (which came from where exactly?) transpired in nothingness and there we were, an intelligent life-form that is so orderly that it's insane all these creatures are able to co-exist. Yet an explosion was able to do this. To create intelligent life-forms that are perfectly able to co-exist.

These theories have observable data behind them. Just because it's referred to as a theory doesn't equate it an opinion. Theories vary in degree.

Even what is virtually considered fact, like evolution, is still a theory, because there's always more data to find. It doesn't mean we are unsure of the validity of the theory, it just means we do not fully know everything about it yet, and it would take an massive, just an incredibly massive discovery to debunk such a theory.

Read this, it explains the difference between scientific terminology of theory and facts pretty well.

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We are able to reproduce our findings through science which prove what is true and what is not. We have machines, such as the Large Hadron Collider, to test the theories of particle physics.

Science really knows how to blur the lines between reality and fantasy.

So you deny that we are made up of cells and atoms?

What God says.

And how do you know that what is written in the bible was in fact what God says and not just stories written by people? Where's your evidence that proves it is legitimate? You're incredibly quick to dismiss whatever science has to offer, yet you don't question the bible in any aspect, even though you have no evidence to support your beliefs or what it says.


Ok, another question.

In the bible, God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." 1:16

But the moon is not a light, it only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night," does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

 

[Clown World]

Yeah but science is more objective imo, where as religion is not merely just a personal belief but a societal foundation of any prominent culture and is based on faith. However some things in the bible have described scientific fact so its deceitful for anyone to describe it as completely wrong.

 

[Guntah]

Based on that, you will not question it?

Not if it gives me a satisfying, conclusive explanation. Why else would I?

 

[Mori Jin]

Let me ask you this. If God is all-powerful, why did it take him 6 days to create the world?

How do you know it's 6 earth days though? Even in space (apparently) time flows different. Some have longer days or shorter. 6 days to God could be different to 6 days to you.

 

[Deadlift]

I would ask that you read this in its entirety.

When it comes to the bible, the texts that tell historical events don't align with the evidence found through archaeology. A major example would be the Exodus. There is absolutely no archaeological evidence of Jews even being in Egypt in that time. Also the texts that write about the Exodus were written a thousand years after the claimed time period it takes place in. There are tons of historical inaccuracies which leads to question the credibility of the bible.

When it comes to Dinosaurs, Neanderthals, etc. We do have physical evidence of their existence, such as bones, footprints, DNA samples, tools, artwork, etc.

Yes, there is a lot of dispute about God. But take it from this perspective; we are not saying that there is absolutely no chance of God whatsoever, but based on what we know, it is unlikely.

Science builds on a foundation of observable evidence. It starts small then grows. We have thus far found no evidence to suggest the existence of the supernatural. Whether that might change or not is unforeseeable. But claiming that God exists as a certainty without evidence is disingenuous and unproductive. But if we're talking about an Abrahamic, Islamic, or Christian God; considering that the religious texts have historical inaccuracies, contradictions, and scientific implausibilities, it's safe to say that those Gods, along with all Pagan Gods do not exist. If there is a God, it's not going to be a God that humans have imagined in any religion.

As to blindly following science. Well we're not blindly following it. There is evidence available for us to see. It's just a matter of being able to comprehend that evidence. It's also incredibly important to have peer reviewed science. When scientists make theories or present data, it is then looked upon by other scientists and organizations to verify if what they are proposing is true or not. There is a process to this.

You cannot test religion to see if your God is real, but you can test and reproduce science which makes it real.

I don't think you're giving the correct picture here. While it is true that Exodus doesn't have any support going for it other narratives do such as the most important of them all – the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. This latter one is what carries the Christian beliefs not the Exodus. Also, while it is true that the earliest mentions of Exodus are quite late it is recognized that the tradition reaches a lot earlier than that with a precise date being uncertain so we cannot say there are no better sources as the manuscripts we have are merely retellings of an existing narrative applied in the form of foundation myth widely recognized to have been molded during the Babylonian exile under the need to perserve Israel's identity and it needs to be looked through such lenses.

Also, even if you were right that there were inaccuracies in the Bible all that would disprove is the doctrine of biblibical inneracy but that isn't a fundamental christian doctrine as I myself believe in a progressive revelation as does the majority of the Catholic Church clergy. To say you've disproved the God of Christianity through such means is naive.

As for what goes to testing the religion, I think we can indeed test it to a certain degree. For example, abrahamic religions make claims in regards to the natural world we observe and as such these claims are open to inquiry. We can say with confidence that the world wasn't created in 6 days, that there was no Noah's flood etc. Now as I said, this doesn't disprove everything about the God the religion is preaching but it does help us understand it better.

Science and theology thus find themselves in a constructive dialogue, not conflict.

OP: I think you're just comparing two extremes there. There is a middle ground between blindly following a religion and blindly following anything a popular scientist says. It is important to research the conseus both in theology and science and then align yourself with a certian view. You are right that ignorance persists on both sides of the spectrum, but I do not think there is a specific problem in theological (religious) discussions that isn't also present in the scientific ones.

 

[Lightbringer]

How do you know it's 6 earth days though? Even in space (apparently) time flows different. Some have longer days or shorter. 6 days to God could be different to 6 days to you.

Then it wouldn't be 6 days wouldn't it? It's explicitly stated as 6 days. It's a pretty specific number and they break each day down in the bible.

If you're telling me that 6 days can mean an instant, then why didn't they just say an instant? It's supposed to be the word of "God" isn't it?

And if you can interpret even a certain number days as any amount of time you like, then everything can be interpreted and twisted in a way to fit any narrative.

I'd imagine that the word of "God" was meant to be consistent, otherwise, what's the point of his "word" if it holds no consistent meaning?

 

[Mori Jin]

Then it wouldn't be 6 days wouldn't it? It's explicitly stated as 6 days. It's a pretty specific number and they break each day down in the bible.

If you're telling me that 6 days can mean an instant, then why didn't they just say an instant? It's supposed to be the word of "God" isn't it?

And if you can interpret even a certain number days as any amount of time you like, then everything can be interpreted and twisted in a way to fit any narrative.

I'd imagine that the word of "God" was meant to be consistent, otherwise, what's the point of his "word" if it holds no consistent meaning?

I'm going from the Qur'an and not the bible. Whereas it's loosely translated as days.

 

[Avani 🥈]

People would rather blindly belive in something someone else says than their own intuition, than question said things, and do their own personal research, not entirely based on what someone else says. ...

That's religion you are describing.

Why can't people do their own rational research and use logic based on their own personal experiences, research, and belives rather than someone else's? God is fake. Well, why can't we think of a possibility for god to exist instead of straight up saying it and claiming everything in the bible is bullcrap? The dinosaurs were real. Ok, why can't we question that either, find some actual bones ourselves and study them instead of saying oh this guy said it and he's an archeologist so it's true, here's the evidence, you're stupid, nice tin foil hat.

It's such a shame. It's always A or B, there is no C.

The same logic applies to pretty much everything else. This is one of the main reasons why society keeps going downhill and we see so many people rioting and calling eachother trash and racists etc.

What are your thoughts?

You are most welcome to find your own dinosaur bone and research anytime. No one has to wait for a prophet to lead them and trust on hearsay. It's not scientists stopping you. Only thing that stops anyone from checking the scientific facts oneself is knowledge where to look and to understand what they are looking at, without destroying the evidence in the process. Otherwise there won't be science laboratories for practicals provided by schools but only libraries like religious institutes.

Your post is so random.. You started comparing religion with science, and ended up with racism somehow.

PS: you need knowledge of paleontology rather than just archeology to study dinosaurs.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Let me ask you this. If God is all-powerful, why did it take him 6 days to create the world?

You're talking about the existence of Earth presumed 4 billions years ago. Well, six days not by our human standard actual days (24 hours per day). Six days as six phases. The wisdom in this is to teach human that things take time to come/join all together, so we must learn to be patient if we want things to be done completely.

Perhaps this is like -- the PC master race. Some people think it's all about performance, but the actual meaning behind it is to be a smart consumer.

You see? It's so simple. Some people just misunderstand the message/point.

 

[Kishi Uzumaki]

Well, you can always ask what if's as much as you want and find evidence to prove what you believe in but never try to push them on others unless you've realistic and conclusive evidence and have ability to prove them wrong ..

 

[MangaArtist007]

I'm going to assume you haven't actually read Genesis - as in the full account of creation in the original Hebrew. You'll see it's a lot more complicated than the story version everyone is familiar with and there are commentaries elaborate. From this view there is actually no scientific contradiction

 

[Dreckerplayer]

Yeah but science is more objective imo, where as religion is not merely just a personal belief but a societal foundation of any prominent culture and is based on faith. However some things in the bible have described scientific fact so its deceitful for anyone to describe it as completely wrong.

lmao, it's decietful for anyone to describe the bible as accurate.It's manipulates the truth.

It's not written, to be true, it's written to manipulate the truth.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

lmao, it's decietful for anyone to describe the bible as accurate.It's manipulates the truth.

It's not written, to be true, it's written to manipulate the truth.

"God created man from clay." How do you response to this?

 

[Fountain]

That's religion you are describing.

I didn't specify anything but 'people' when i said that.

You are most welcome to find your own dinosaur bone and research anytime. No one has to wait for a prophet to lead them and trust on hearsay. It's not scientists stopping you. Only thing that stops anyone from checking the scientific facts oneself is knowledge where to look and to understand what they are looking at, without destroying the evidence in the process. Otherwise there won't be science laboratories for practicals provided by schools but only libraries like religious institutes.

So it would be hearsay for me to do but not another person?

Your post is so random.. You started comparing religion with science, and ended up with racism somehow.

Maybe because the main idea of my thread wasn't to compare science with religion but rather make a point about how people are so ignorant to blindly trust and belive in something and limit themselves to hear anything else, wich applies to pretty much everything.

PS: you need knowledge of paleontology rather than just archeology to study dinosaurs.

I'm aware of that.

 

[Dreckerplayer]

"God created man from clay." How do you response to this?

completely imagined, obviously.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

completely imagined, obviously.

How so? The human body has the same elements as soil.

Carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, phosphorus, sulfur, nitrogen, calcium, potassium, sodium, chlorine, magnesium, iron, manganese, copper, iodine, fluorine, cobalt, zinc.

 

[Dreckerplayer]

How so? The human body has the same elements as soil.

Carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, phosphorus, sulfur, nitrogen, calcium, potassium, sodium, chlorine, magnesium, iron, manganese, copper, iodine, fluorine, cobalt, zinc.

OH PLEASE.

You just used me to plug in your own special theory.Deceitful. Such an opportunist.Know it all.Skin is not made, nor has the consistency of actual CLAY. Grow up.

a perfect example of misogyny and manipulation.

 

[Lightbringer]

I'm going from the Qur'an and not the bible. Whereas it's loosely translated as days.

I was specifically talking about the bible. Let's keep it on topic and not go into what other religious texts say to try to justify a different religion's wording.

You're talking about the existence of Earth presumed 4 billions years ago. Well, six days not by our human standard actual days (24 hours per day). Six days as six phases. The wisdom in this is to teach human that things take time to come/join all together, so we must learn to be patient if we want things to be done completely.

Perhaps this is like -- the PC master race. Some people think it's all about performance, but the actual meaning behind it is to be a smart consumer.

You see? It's so simple. Some people just misunderstand the message/point.

But again, that's not what the bible says, that's just you interpreting it to fit your own narrative.

So is the word of God not literal and that we can simply assume what he meant in order to justify something rather than just taking God at his word?

 

[ArabianLuffy]

OH PLEASE.

You just used me to plug in your own special theory.Deceitful. Such an opportunist.Know it all.Skin is not made, nor has the consistency of actual CLAY. Grow up.

a perfect example of misogyny and manipulation.

Did someone mention misogyny? Whatever.

My own special theory? You with all confident stated that the bible manipulate truth, without any proof to support your statement. Go read, please.

 

[Dreckerplayer]

Did someone mention misogyny? Whatever.

My own special theory? You with all confident stated that the bible manipulate truth, without any proof to support your statement. Go read, please.

It's self-explanatory.

How can you prove something, that's just common sense. It's loaded with manipulations.