So because Choji can grab one of Asuma's arms when he's not using Hien (or rather couldn't since they took his blades away from him), Gai can do the same in an extended struggle where Asuma can use Ninjutsu and Hien and then defeat him? Yeah, the dots aren't connecting bud. This isn't even an argument, or rather it barely is one. All you've done is prove that Gai won't get obliterated the moment Hien comes out, not that he would win.
It was actually Ino Mind Transferring in the very last moment then using Chouji's body to counter it, but yeah. Hien or no Hien, Asuma's striking speed remains the same. If Ino/Chouji are skilled enough to stop the progress of his blade by grabbing his forearm, and even go
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with Asuma, what do you think Gai will do to him? He's obviously at this point out classed by Gai, which shouldn't be refuted, unless you think Chouji/Ino are in Gai's ball park when it comes to CQC.
The Hien blades are countered in the same fashion Chouji/Ino stopped Asuma's blade with barehands. Then Gai proceeds to overpower Asuma with brute strength in any way he deems fit in order to disarm him. Asuma's Fuuton was dodged by Ino, and I see no reason why Gai couldn't avoid his Katon just like Naruto avoided 30% Itachi's. If you aren't conceding here, do make sure to explain to me why you think Ino and base Chouji are in the same tier as base Gai, since his skillset wouldn't compensate against what is essentially just a longer blade (hien).
DB 3 doesn't rank Bukijutsu, which is the main focus of Asuma's close quarters fighting style. That's an almost irrelevant point to bring up. Sasuke's Taijutsu, strength and stamina scores are worse than Asuma's yet his proficiency with his blade and Chidori put him comfortably above Asuma's level.
What are Mifune's feats? Clashing with Sasuke once? Being too fast for Hanzo's hand signs? His best feat is his speed. His confrontation with Kisame is not inconsistent. What did Kisame do or fail to do against Asuma that'd contradict what he did against Killer B since it's pretty obvious that is what you are talking about. Bold is irrelevant. Asuma is a full grown Jonin. There is almost no full grown Jonin who got more skilled in their craft to increase their power. They simply got new techniques, i.e. Kakashi w/ his newfound Kamui spam, and Gai with an actual display of the 7th and 8th Gates.
Your point? What Asuma was using against Chouji was in fact Bukijutsu. Supposedly the most skilled in all of Konoha in that area, yet got countered by Chouji's bare hands? Please. As I already stated, that outdated statement means absolutely nothing by the war-arc.
Unlike Asuma, Mifune's striking speed and speed are clearly too fast to allow much hand movement. So how is Gai defending against that speed armed with a chakra blade? This is the man who was stated to be a formidable foe for Hanzo in his prime, who has ridiculous amounts of hype that I don't believe I need to bring up. That alone says all I need to know about Mifune being well above Asuma. Is Asuma on Killer B's level in terms of CQC? Your answer is hopefully no. The bolded is incorrect, Asuma, Kakashi, and Kurenai were all full grown Jonin yet their databook scores increased between DB 1 & 2. DB4 scores were thrown out the window because the previous scores were well exceeded by this point.
Really now? Gai being able to shatter a boulder doesn't put his physical power on par with Choza's expanded fist. Where did Choza shatter bed rock in a manner that'd allow you to equate his strength to Gai's? I hope you aren't using the damage dealt to the ground as some kind of evidence when the energy exerted by said punch has to go through Asura before it ever reaches the ground. Tsunade punched Madara's Susanoo
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, yet it's canon fact that Tsunade hits a dozen times harder than Gai does in Base.
That Obito point is also useless. The only time Obito witnessed Choza and Choji's power was when they used they used their full expansion jutsu to take on the Mazo. Obito not commenting on that, but commenting on this doesn't make Gai's strength comparable to theirs, especially since by this logic, Gai must consider breaking a rock more impressive than being able to hit the Gedo Mazo square in the chest and knock it back a few inches.
And easily pierced by Raikiri? Are we reading the same Manga?
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Despite Asura Path being mangled by Choza's attack, it blocked Raikiri for the last few seconds of Deva's cooldown. If it was "easily" pierced then it would've "easily" ripped through Asura and ripped Deva apart as well. Stop throwing around Raikiri and Rasengan like Gai's physical strikes even come close to the level of power or focus put into Raikiri or a Sage Rasengan, the former of which it took effort to pierce through despite being mangled.
But yes, this is definitely what you'd call low tiered durability. It's pretty hilarious how you can type "Asura has low tiered durability" and then in the next sentences wank the hell out of Gai's durability like he's the one who survived Choza's punch, and then blocked Raikiri from Kakashi. Oh wait, he wasn't, because if that was Gai, Raikiri would've torn through his body like a hot knife through butter. Base Gai's best feats are getting hit by Kisame and coughing up blood. I suppose you can try to spin that to a positive if you'd like.
Gai is not putting down a being that can take Choza's punch, and then Raikiri and still be operational. Gai is not even ever going to get Asura Path in that condition in the first place. Not when his best feats are crushing boulders.
Oh yeah, and it was still in one piece and functional. [
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But yeah, this is low tiered durability right here.
Which I said nowhere. And thank you for proving my point. You're correct, energy does have to go through said object before hitting the ground as shown with Tsunade smashing Susano'o into the ground. However, that doesn't make a single difference when said object offers no resistance. If Tsunade was punching a bug instead of Susano'o, the transfer of energy becomes irrelevant.
The arm on the left squashed Asura, and the arm on the right missed it's target and only hit the ground. They were both executed at the same time, hit the ground at the same time, and inflicted the same amount of damage to the ground. That means Asura, unlike Susano'o, for all its "durability" offered no resistance to that punch. Squashed like a bug.
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We can gauge the power that Choza and Chouji's punch carried by the damage left on the ground, which is bedrock. It's nothing beyond the destructive force Gai carries, therefore Asura isn't tanking anything. The only difference here is that Gai's fist doesn't cover the AoE of Choza's, so he'd have to hit Asura way more times to bring it down. But the notion that Gai can't damage it is nothing but absolute silliness, and not supported by this manga. Obviously literal giants, who have to weigh tons, are stronger than a 200lb man. Obito's statement was to prove that pound (Gai's size in comparison to Chouji/Choza) for pound (Gai's strength in comparison to Chouji/Choza), Gai's destructive power was deemed more impressive in front of a top tier character.
Lmao, dead wrong. Do you even bother to observe the scans that you link? Before Asura came into the equation, we can see Chouji and Choza tightly
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straight. Asura pops in the middle, and
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, which pushes the chain and Deva backward as well. Quick observation makes this evident by his body position before Kakashi makes contact. That is why in the next page we see Kakashi diving forward, and his Raikiri fainlly making contact, which was easily bisecting through Asura. Like, do you not even see the chains being
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? Thinking this was Kakashi's doing is just laughable, as if he has enough strength to overpower Chouji and Choza holding a chain in place. It was clearly Asura using it's strength to create more distance between Kakashi and Deva.
So whenever you decide to actually be accurate with what the manga shows us; Asura got squashed like a bug, offering zero resistance to Choza's punch before making contact with the ground, it was was EASILY penetrated by Raikiri, and got 1HKO'd by SM Naruto's Rasengan. Incredible durability bro. Then to make things even worse then what they already are, you're trying to establish superiority using the anatomy of a mechanical being in comparison to a human. Don't go there.
No, that's not an irrelevant point as physical strength is a large part of close combat no matter how hard you try to gloss over the many disadvantages Gai has. Gai took a heavy hit from Kisame just because he couldn't overpower him even when he had his Nunchaku as a barrier between them. DB stated that Gai can go against armed foes because of how fast he is. That doesn't apply to literally every single scenario where Gai is armed and the opponent is not, nor is that even the only issue. It's that + the rest of Asura Path's advantages. Stop with the disingenuous replies. Asura's missiles are homing missiles, and if the missile hits Gai the brunt of the blast will propel forward, i.e away from him.
This right here is probably the worst wank for Gai I have EVER on here. Gai taking physical strikes from Kisame and coughing up blood isn't a feat worth mentioning when talking about missiles and lasers from Asura Path so let's not even go there. That is unless you are going to argue how Asura's missiles are now weaker than Kisame's physical strikes. I think I missed where Gai got hit by a penetrative force on par with Raikiri and actually gave said force trouble when it came to his durability. Half this BS doesn't even qualify as bona fide durability feats.
-I don't care about Gai's steel body. Steel body isn't a feat that proves your point, it's not even a feat. It's a broad big up that means he's exceptionally durable.
-I don't care about Gai not being burnt by fire on his body. Fire on his body is not comparable to missiles and lasers.
-I don't care about Hirudora either. Yes, completed it can destroy Susanoo. But it was not completed so unless you can calculate the exact difference in power there's no reason for you to mention here as some kind of evidence that Gai gets hit by missiles and brushes it off. Especially since last time Hirudora was gimped, it went from destroying Susanoo to not killing Kisame, and the jutsu was act
-I don't care about Night Guy's speed. Base Ay can survive being transported by Mabui's jutsu with zero injuries and the speed it transfers you at far surpasses anything Gai has ever moved at.
-I don't care about the Night Guy feat. What does him blowing off half of Madara's body have to do with his defensive power? How does having his leg shattered from hitting Madara too hard mean that he can take Asura's attacks and not die? Why are you using multiple feats of Gai in a massively invigorated state as evidence of his body's durability in his base form? He was coughing up blood from Kisame's hits, broke ribs and his arm from Hirudora being countered by Madara while in the 7th Gate and yet you actually think that that same Gai would be able to take the recoil of Night Guy, an attack incomparably superior to Hirudora, and only come out with a broken leg?
Get. Real.
So if a MMA fighter and body builder fight, you think strength is a deciding factor? Or even an importance factor? You know nothing about combat. Strength alone is almost irrelevant when it's not paired with any skill. Gai had no knowledge on Kisame's strength, which is why he found himself in the scenario where he was in. The intel here is full, so there is no reason for Gai to allow this match up to be determined by strength. Asura has no feats with how it uses it's bladed weapons. Still insisting on Asura bringing out homing missiles in CQC? He pull them out, and then Gai strikes them with his nunchucks and jumps away from Asura's self-destruction. In the off chance Asura gets to successfully fire them off, Gai does
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since the missiles go off on contact.
Oh, you're actually still claiming that these missiles are taking out Gai and being serious all at the same time. They pack enough explosive power to take out a side of a building. A few paper tags can damn near do the same thing, yet early p2 Sakura took those no problem. In all seriousness, what in the actual hell makes you think that's enough power to take out Gai? Especially since its never getting a direct hit in the first place.
A missiles explosion is nothing but a sudden release of pressure known as a blast wave or shock wave, which also generates high temperature and gasses. Gai's body is canonically durable enough to not only produce high temperatures with fire, but to withstand it without injury. Gai's body is canonically durable enough to withstand a point blank explosion of pressure without sustaining any major injuries (No, he did not break any bones). There is no way for you or I to accurately compare what generates more pressure and heat energy, and by how much, but what we do know for a fact is that it is canon that Gai's body has shown good resistance to it.
The Hirudora used against Kisame was an outlier, because it was used under water and we know that Gai was never trying to kill Kisame in the first place. So if a Hirudora that full power can take out a V3 Susano'o, and even if we downscale that feat by 90% (roughly by the size shown that exploded on Gai's face), the air pressure is still easily taking out a building.
Lmao, is Mabui's transfer technique bending space from the sheer power and speed? Nope. That technique drops whatever it's carrying off gently and peacefully. Gai's body made contact with Madara while moving at full speed and he only sustained a shattered leg. Please show me where it was stated that each level of gates increases durability, because I'm about 99.8% sure the answer is never. Gai coughed up blood by Kisame's hit then shrugged it off and continued fighting, so there was no significant damage. Hirudora did not break his bones reread the manga page, the only time Gai has broken his bones and taken a lot of damage in the manga was running his leg through JJ Madara. A durability feat that shits on anything Ay and 99% of the NV has shown.
Yet he was still capable of fighting for an extended period of time after that, including being capable of making clones. You're gonna have to come up with something a little more descriptive than "Gai just wears him out". By doing what? Dodging him the entire fight? Because any direct clash is going to result in Gai being overwhelmed.
Yeah, an extended period of time that hardly included using his staff. Gai is getting overwhelmed, how? He's way stronger and faster than Hiruzen, who took himself getting exhausted to finally overwhelm Orochimaru who doesn't by any means specialize in this form of combat. Gai wears him out by fighting with his nunchucks and dodging the staff until Hiruzen quickly gets exhausted to the point where Gai can comfortably get around his defenses.
1. More durable than Tsunade by far. [
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2. Tsunade can take a Yasaka Magatama to the stomach with no damage. [
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3. Madara's Yasaka Magatama>Gai's physical strikes.
So no, Gai cannot and will not ever hurt Ay. Gai is more skilled, but Ay is faster and the gap is not small. So his attacks are easily reacted to and blocked from hitting areas like his head and neck. Ay is stronger, and the gap is not small. Ay has more stamina and the gap is not small. Throwing around Gai's skill isn't going to cut it.
If you disagree with Gai being unable to hurt Ay I'll wait for you to bring strength feats beyond that of smashing boulders.
KCM Naruto is more durable than Gai by feats, and B got hit once by
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. So no, it wasn't "without any injury". And it was just an elbow. Not a punch. Where is this horrendous striking speed stuff coming from? Where has Ay shown below average striking speed? Nowhere. Ever. His general movements are blatantly stated to be fast by Zetsu.
Durability wasn't covered. What you posted as durability feats were nonsense. Strength was not covered. Breaking boulders and making Naruto clad in Kurama's chakra call your punch heavy are obviously not comparable. Stamina is not comparable either. So because Gai has a 5 he's near Ay level, Bijuu level, in chakra and stamina? So because he can match a massive scaled jutsu with a tech that doesn't consume chakra, thus comparing the two makes your argument flawed, he's near Ay level in stamina? What exactly let you reach the bold as a conclusion?
Characters in this Manga have coordinated attacks despite them not even being on the same speed tier so Gai and Naruto doing the same doesn't really matter here. Your Gai vs. Obito feat is skill, not speed. Neither Naruto nor Gai had issues with speed against Obito so drawing up a comparison there doesn't make sense. Naruto had issues because of Obito's weapon. Gai's weapon play is literally the only thing that kept Obito from warping him like he was about to do Naruto.
And no, his strongest jutsu was not performed at exhaustion. Opening the gates revitalizes your body. Thus when Gai opens the 7th Gate, the power released negates any exhaustion issues he had before opening it. Are you really going to sit here and argue that Gai on the brink of exhaustion is capable of doing what he did against Madara? Are you really going to sit here and argue that a Gai who couldn't even stand up on his own has enough stamina and energy left to engage JJ Madara and use Hirudora in the first place?
Stop throwing around databook stats, statements and showings and saying "comparable" without actually making a comparison. Yes, Gai has fast reflexes, but they are not Minato leveled unless you are willing to show me where Gai has displayed the feats that put him on said level. Your Naruto and Gai comparison sucks because Gai had a weapon and said weapon is the only reason he was able to go against Obito without ending up like Naruto, who didn't have a weapon. Yes, skill matters, but it's not making up for inferiority (by a long shot) in almost every physical area of combat.
And where did KCM Naruto display feats that put him ">>>" Base Ay and Minato in reflexes? Nowhere. KCM Naruto is >>> Base Ay in movement speed. Not reflexes. Physical ability will always be more important than skill in close quarters encounters no matter how many people try to desperately argue otherwise. At least when there's a gap in physical ability like there is here.
I'm drained of typing about a manga at this point, can't be doing these long replies anymore. This one I was on the fence with anyways, so I'm not going to give at as much attention.
In short, Tsunade sustaining minor cuts all over her body doesn't equate to Ay being by far more durable then her. Bee spitting up blood doesn't equate to a significant injury, he was fine afterwards. At the bolded, Gai hit Kisame/Samehada so hard that it's body bent over [
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]. Samehada is super durable, and has never been bent before from taking a hit. We can't tell whether or not Kisame spat out blood, but the hit was so hard that Kisame was bleeding out his mouth after the hit [
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]. This is an impressive feat since Gai's hit was straight into Samehada's body, and because Kisame was fused with it, still leaked out blood. The only time Samehada was bleeding is when it took a hit from V2 Bee's lariat. Inb4 KCM Naruto made Kisame spit out blood, Naruto didn't hit Samehada's body, he actually hit (weakened) Kisame.
Gai's taijutsu takes physical energy which intertwines with chakra. We see JJ Madara noting Gai's chakra system depleting as he exhausted himself in 8G's. When has anyone been able to match two Biju chakra level scaled techniques back to back with zero exhaustion? Clearly, he isn't drastically behind. The 2nd gate
forcefully revitalizes the body... the stamina doesn't come from nowhere. He was past the point of exhaustion prior to firing off that Hirudora, and he was in the same state after firing it off too. He is simply so conditioned that his strongest technique doesn't require a whole lot of energy. Simple.
Suegetsu, Killer Bee, and Gaara's sand all intercepted Ay's strike. KCM Naruto blocked it every single time. His striking speed is lackluster, and Gai will read his movements from a mile away. Gai can spot a mere
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from underwater (harder to see) and instantly react to it. Ay swings and Gai easily dodges it or at worst blocks it, which is no problem with his durability feats.
That's all I got in me. Good debate though.
