No they haven't. That particular arrow was used once and never used again. It's only feat is failing to destroy an object that Naruto can break with his bare hands. SM or not, doesn't matter because SM Naruto's physical strength isn't more damaging than a regular Susanoo Arrow by feats.
So as i already said comparable feats, unless you have a regular susanno arrow going clean through juubi clones
Ad given that its literally the same orb and arrow setup:
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no reason to believe that the ama arrow is somehow weaker than a regular one.
As for the rest again naruto broke it from the side:
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i'm sure if we put a susanoo arrow in its place breaking it from the side like that wouldn't be all too difficult either.
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EMS Sasuke. Not like it matters which Sasuke because the statement holds true no matter which versions of Sasuke or Madara I use. His strongest Susanoo will always be levels above Madara's weakest.
why are you comparing sasuke to madara instead of sasuke to sasuke. Ems sasuke's Arrows to ms sasuke's arrows is an apples to apples comparison, with the difference being chakra potency.
Ems sasuke at version whatever is stronger than ms sasuke at the same version. and that will hold true for all of his attacks.
So Ems Sasuke firing an arrow from V3(ama or not)>Ms sasuke firing an arrow at V3.
The bold also doesn't matter. Those 20 Magatama all hit different spots. In each spot it hit it ripped through the sand and cracked Onoki's golem. 1 Susanoo Arrow from a Susanoo a level or two above>1 Magatama from a Susanoo a level or two below.
1. What Sasuke used against Zetsu was blatantly shown to be used as a sword and it was far larger than this arrow and used by a stronger Susanoo. This all holds true against the Juubi clones as well, except for the part about it being used by a stronger Susanoo.
2.
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One is solid physical flame, the other is not and that much is obvious by simply looking at how they are drawn. So again, where has that particular arrow shown feats on par with the regular Susanoo Arrow? Nowhere, cause it's only feat is being blocked by chakra rods.
Ad given that its literally the same orb and arrow setup:
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no reason to believe that the ama arrow is somehow weaker than a regular one.
That doesn't matter though. He broke it. That's the important part. Not to mention the whole breaking from the sides thing is a weak excuse anyway. Whether or not Susanoo Arrow can be broken like that is irrelevant as we are not talking about how durable Susanoo Arrow is. If Naruto's physical strength is enough to break the rods one of three things must be true:
1. Them being chakra disrupting rods played a role in why Sasuke's Arrow was blocked.
2. That particular arrow is just weak.
3. The rod is just that durable and SM Naruto's physical power>>>>>Susanoo Arrow's piercing power.
Doesn't take a genius to realize that number 3 is obviously wrong. Susanoo Arrow has ripped through human bodies, Mokuton and stone pillars (i.e far far stronger than Chidori) while Naruto needs Rasengan to match Chidori's power. SM Naruto doesn't hit harder than Rasengan. There is no debate on this point. 1 or 2 would be the correct answer. Most likely 1. Possibly 2. Not 3.
why are you comparing sasuke to madara instead of sasuke to sasuke. Ems sasuke's Arrows to ms sasuke's arrows is an apples to apples comparison, with the difference being chakra potency.
Ems sasuke at version whatever is stronger than ms sasuke at the same version. and that will hold true for all of his attacks.
So Ems Sasuke firing an arrow from V3(ama or not)>Ms sasuke firing an arrow at V3.
It only cracked in 2 spots so the bold does matter. Unless you have some explanation as to why there isn't 20 cracks.
20 matanagma's from ems madara in v3> 1 arrow from Ms sasuke in v3
When you show me EMS Sasuke and MS Sasuke using the same exact arrow then your potency comparison will make sense, until then it doesn't. V3 Susanoo>V2 Susanoo. That is a fact. Thus Susanoo Arrow>Magatama. Magatama raped Gaara's shield as it still had enough force to crack Onoki's. Susanoo Arrow does worse.
Unless each Magatama hit the same exact area, this whole 20 Magatama business you keep on talking about doesn't help your argument or even makes sense as that is not how force works. It being hit in several different spots doesn't magically make spots that weren't hit crack. That and it was never shown, said or stated that only 2 spots cracked. By this logic only 5-6 Magatama hit the shield since that is all that was drawn on the panel.
The Magatama didn't all hit the same spot on Gaara's Shield. We can clearly see separate impact areas on the sand for
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, thus it's not 20 Magatama vs. 1 Susanoo Arrow. It's 2-3 Magatama at most vs. 1 Susanoo Arrow.
And no, Madara was using V2, not v3. V3>>V2. V4 Susanoo Arrow>>V3 Susanoo Arrow>Magatama from V2 Susanoo. At the very best you can argue that they are on par.
I might be wrong about the texture of the sand Gaara used for the steam explosion and the susanoo clones [
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]-[
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] being different from the magatama shield [
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] but one thing for certain is that the only time Gaara comes in contact with the ground is to create sand. His sand shield is readily available in his gourd so i don't think the magatama shield was from his auto sand shield which is stronger than his other sand variants.
I also know next to nothing about the various forms of Susanoo but should the Magatama's that
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that shield be stronger than a Susanoo sword from a senjutsu Madara (i don't know if Hashi's senjutsu makes a difference btw just asking) that was unable to breach a smaller volume of sand? [
I also know next to nothing about the various forms of Susanoo but should the Magatama's that
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that shield be stronger than a Susanoo sword from a senjutsu Madara (i don't know if Hashi's senjutsu makes a difference btw just asking) that was unable to breach a smaller volume of sand? [
maybe for starters the sword madara threw was from ribcage susanoo [
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it was much smaller[
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] than the swords that madara used with legged susanoo[
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]
also the sword was either remotely controlled or madara had his limbo carry it and then at gaara considering shukaku was shocked when sword left its hand [
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] and was seen reaching gaara in spinning motion [
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].Either way sword did not have strength of sasunoo backing it up
maybe for starters the sword madara threw was from ribcage susanoo [
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]
it was much smaller[
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] than the swords that madara used with legged susanoo[
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]
also the sword was either remotely controlled or madara had his limbo carry it and then at gaara considering shukaku was shocked when sword left its hand [
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] and was seen reaching gaara in spinning motion [
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].Either way sword did not have strength of sasunoo backing it up
- Oh..ok so that means Hashirama's senjutsu didn't have an effect on Susanoo right?
- Well i think we know which was thicker wrt Gaara's body right? [
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]-[
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]
- Remotely controlled? How? And if it was Limbo that threw it, shouldn't it still have considerable force considering said Limbo's were able to knock Bijuu's off their feet?[
Yes but still doesn't have the strength of susanoo backing up when it the susano is slashing using it
- Remotely controlled? How? And if it was Limbo that threw it, shouldn't it still have considerable force considering said Limbo's were able to knock Bijuu's off their feet?[
Thats why i said dunno considering all we saw was sword getting out of shukaku's hand cutting the chain then moving all around its other hand then suddenly going above to hit gaara.It most likely not the limbo considering the sword moved in air and but yeah i am not sure what exactly happened there
I might be wrong about the texture of the sand Gaara used for the steam explosion and the susanoo clones [
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]-[
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] being different from the magatama shield [
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] but one thing for certain is that the only time Gaara comes in contact with the ground is to create sand. His sand shield is readily available in his gourd so i don't think the magatama shield was from his auto sand shield which is stronger than his other sand variants.
I also know next to nothing about the various forms of Susanoo but should the Magatama's that
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that shield be stronger than a Susanoo sword from a senjutsu Madara (i don't know if Hashi's senjutsu makes a difference btw just asking) that was unable to breach a smaller volume of sand? [
It's the same exact sand from the environment. The difference in drawings you are showing is miniscule. Sure, that wasn't from his gourd, but his gourd sand isn't more durable than his larger sand shields that are taken from the environment. That sand is where his best feats come from. Jin Gaara blocked C3 with that sand and his Mom Shield was his go to defense the entire War Arc.
As for the bottom paragraph, that was only Ribcage Susanoo. Ribcage Susanoo isn't stronger than V2 Susanoo even w/ Senjutsu enhancements. All you really need to know there.
It's the same exact sand from the environment. The difference in drawings you are showing is miniscule. Sure, that wasn't from his gourd, but his gourd sand isn't more durable than his larger sand shields that are taken from the environment. That sand is where his best feats come from. Jin Gaara blocked C3 with that sand and his Mom Shield was his go to defense the entire War Arc.
As for the bottom paragraph, that was only Ribcage Susanoo. Ribcage Susanoo isn't stronger than V2 Susanoo even w/ Senjutsu enhancements. All you really need to know there.
The sand that blocked C3 was infused with his chakra possibly giving it the same defensive ability as his gourd sand albeit on a larger scale. Chakra infused sand is different from normal sand he can also control and its why Deidara was able to bust out of the gigantic sand prison but unable to shrug off the sand he says is used for the absolute defense [
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] and i'm not sure any of his sand constructs take the shape of his mom after the Magatama incident.
Oh alright then.. so that would mean the Magatama wielding susanoo and the 5 sword wielding Susanoo's are the same version even though the former was legless?
The sand that blocked C3 was infused with his chakra possibly giving it the same defensive ability as his gourd sand albeit on a larger scale. Chakra infused sand is different from normal sand he can also control and its why Deidara was able to bust out of the gigantic sand prison but unable to shrug off the sand he says is used for the absolute defense [
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] and i'm not sure any of his sand constructs take the shape of his mom after the Magatama incident.
Oh alright then.. so that would mean the Magatama wielding susanoo and the 5 sword wielding Susanoo's are the same version even though the former was legless?
Where was that stated? All that was shown is that he took sand from outside the village to block C3. The only sand that is ever infused with his chakra is the sand that comes from his gourd. The comparison you are making with Deidara doesn't hold up. He was able to get out of the sand prison because he blew up the spot that hadn't completely closed up yet, and he couldn't shrug off Gaara's gourd sand because it was faster and caught his arm and leg nor does he have the physical power to free himself from that.
Gaara barely has any showings after the Magatama incident anyway. His shields against his dad and Gengetsu were mostly the Mom Shield. After the Madara fight Gaara only had minor support roles.
The ones that had full bodies were V3. The one that used Magatama was V2.
Where was that stated? All that was shown is that he took sand from outside the village to block C3. The only sand that is ever infused with his chakra is the sand that comes from his gourd. The comparison you are making with Deidara doesn't hold up. He was able to get out of the sand prison because he blew up the spot that hadn't completely closed up yet, and he couldn't shrug off Gaara's gourd sand because it was faster and caught his arm and leg nor does he have the physical power to free himself from that.
Gaara barely has any showings after the Magatama incident anyway. His shields against his dad and Gengetsu were mostly the Mom Shield. After the Madara fight Gaara only had minor support roles.
The ones that had full bodies were V3. The one that used Magatama was V2.
Ohh.. but doesn't that prove the Magatama shield wasn't the same as the Susanoo sword one since the latter tanked something from a higher version of Susanoo?
Ohh.. but doesn't that prove the Magatama shield wasn't the same as the Susanoo sword one since the latter tanked something from a higher version of Susanoo?
Oh, ok then. So if he can infuse chakra into any sand he uses why would he not do so against Madara's attacks, but do so against Gengetsu's attacks? There's really no reason to believe that the two shields are different in power.
No, because those were Susanoo made after Madara split his power among 25 of himself using Wood Clones.
Oh, ok then. So if he can infuse chakra into any sand he uses why would he not do so against Madara's attacks, but do so against Gengetsu's attacks? There's really no reason to believe that the two shields are different in power.
No, because those were Susanoo made after Madara split his power among 25 of himself using Wood Clones.
1. What Sasuke used against Zetsu was blatantly shown to be used as a sword and it was far larger than this arrow and used by a stronger Susanoo. This all holds true against the Juubi clones as well, except for the part about it being used by a stronger Susanoo.
One is solid physical flame, the other is not and that much is obvious by simply looking at how they are drawn. So again, where has that particular arrow shown feats on par with the regular Susanoo Arrow? Nowhere, cause it's only feat is being blocked by chakra rods.
both are solid and physical. It wouldn't have the feats it does if it wasn't. Piercing rock and trees is no different then piercing the juubi clone. or the zetsu
They are different arrows. That is enough to end this comparison.
with comparable feats and nothing pegging one to be weaker then than the other.
That doesn't matter though. He broke it. That's the important part. Not to mention the whole breaking from the sides thing is a weak excuse anyway. Whether or not Susanoo Arrow can be broken like that is irrelevant as we are not talking about how durable Susanoo Arrow is. If Naruto's physical strength is enough to break the rods one of three things must be true:
1. Them being chakra disrupting rods played a role in why Sasuke's Arrow was blocked.
2. That particular arrow is just weak.
3. The rod is just that durable and SM Naruto's physical power>>>>>Susanoo Arrow's piercing power.
He broke by exploiting a weak point-_- THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART. You calling it a "weak excuse" is your failure to provide a solid argument against it. Its the second time you've done this. Since option 4.I.e. what i said. Craps on the measly excuses you tried to give.
Doesn't take a genius to realize that number 3 is obviously wrong. Susanoo Arrow has ripped through human bodies, Mokuton and stone pillars (i.e far far stronger than Chidori) while Naruto needs Rasengan to match Chidori's power.
but are they strong from the side tho? naww not really. Idk why your putting so much stock into their respective penetrating power as if naruto beat its penetrating power to break it. And arrow can run through any human(and i'm talking arrows in general here) but its resistance to getting broken in half is pathetic. Same applies here. Its that simple.
SM Naruto doesn't hit harder than Rasengan. There is no debate on this point. 1 or 2 would be the correct answer. Most likely 1. Possibly 2. Not 3.
He doesn't have to to break it, just exploit its structural weakness.
And fyi:
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he has used rasengan to break them.
When you show me EMS Sasuke and MS Sasuke using the same exact arrow then your potency comparison will make sense, until then it doesn't. V3 Susanoo>V2 Susanoo. That is a fact. Thus Susanoo Arrow>Magatama. Magatama raped Gaara's shield as it still had enough force to crack Onoki's. Susanoo Arrow does worse.
Doesn't have to be the exact. Ems sasuke by chakra simply has a higher ceiling.
Unless each Magatama hit the same exact area, this whole 20 Magatama business you keep on talking about doesn't help your argument or even makes sense as that is not how force works. It being hit in several different spots doesn't magically make spots that weren't hit crack. That and it was never shown, said or stated that only 2 spots cracked. By this logic only 5-6 Magatama hit the shield since that is all that was drawn on the panel.
@bold underline: there you go using your head. Aread that got cracked are areas wher multiple matnagmas hit the same spot.
You're right the spots that were it multiple times cracked. the spots that weren't didnt.
@underline:Actually its roughly the same amount:
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We see madara prep roughly 15
Then in the next scan there is about 6 shown matanagmas and 8 impact marks in the sand
following panel is 2 cracks.
The Magatama didn't all hit the same spot on Gaara's Shield. We can clearly see separate impact areas on the sand for
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, thus it's not 20 Magatama vs. 1 Susanoo Arrow. It's 2-3 Magatama at most vs. 1 Susanoo Arrow.
@bold but we can assume that the ones that did hit the same spots multiple times cracked onoki's golem twice.
And no, Madara was using V2, not v3. V3>>V2. V4 Susanoo Arrow>>V3 Susanoo Arrow>Magatama from V2 Susanoo. At the very best you can argue that they are on par.
1. Show me the same exact arrow, in size and everything or stop mentioning it. I can keep on pointing out obvious differences that you are blatantly ignoring if you want. What Sasuke used against Zetsu was larger and with a stronger Susanoo. Fact. What Sasuke used against the Juubi was larger. Fact.
2. Stop making ridiculous excuses. If Naruto can break the rod with physical strength then Susanoo Arrow is strong enough to pierce it. The difference in difficulty between breaking it from the side and breaking it by hitting it at the edges isn't comparable to the difference in power between Naruto's physical strength and Susanoo Arrows penetrative power.
3. Stop talking about Susanoo Arrows durability or this comparison about arrows, or this mention of the rod's piercing power. I don't care as it is not relevant. Read what is being stated and you won't be making these ridiculous comparisons. If Naruto's physical power is enough to destroy the rods, there is no reason why the arrows would be unable to destroy those same rods unless something else is going on. Him using Rasengan to break them also proves my point. Something weaker than Susanoo Arrow has canonically destroyed them. So start using your brain and come to the obvious conclusion that the arrow was either weaker than usual, or them being chakra disrupting blades had something to do with why they were blocked.
4. Yes, it does have to be the exact same arrow. EMS Sasuke being stronger is irrelevant. If you aren't going to show me that exact arrow in size and shape all your comparisons and mentioning of chakra potency will fall on deaf ears.
As for the rest of this post:
@bold underline: there you go using your head. Aread that got cracked are areas wher multiple matnagmas hit the same spot.
You're right the spots that were it multiple times cracked. the spots that weren't didnt.
@underline:Actually its roughly the same amount:
Show
We see madara prep roughly 15
Then in the next scan there is about 6 shown matanagmas and 8 impact marks in the sand
following panel is 2 cracks.
Meaning it's not 20 Magatama vs. 1 Susanoo Arrow. It's 2-3 Magatama vs. Susanoo Arrow as that is how many hit the same spot at the same time as shown by that panel. First wave is buried into the sand and the second wave follows behind it.
bold but we can assume that the ones that did hit the same spots multiple times cracked onoki's golem twice.
Not sure why you are taking Madara's v3 (Only v3 and above have lower bodies, it's showing V2 characteristics because it's in the process of transforming to V3) and using it as proof of his V2's strength. Even if that was V2. Full bodied Bijuu sized V2>What he used against Gaara and Onoki's shield.
So no. Madara's v2 is not on par with Sasuke's V3. Madara's Magatama V2 are not stronger than Susanoo Arrow from V3 or V4 Susanoo. Gaara's shield isn't tanking Susanoo Arrow from V3 or V4 Susanoo. Jesus Christ.
This man is really jumping through all these hoops to try and say that Susanoo Arrow (far far far stronger than Chidori) at it's strongest can't pierce the same black rods that Rasengan crushed with no resistance. :lol Some people really make me wonder man.
The Underline is Completely true and has not been denied once.
The Bold is where you speculation comes in and is created arbitrarily. Thats all i'm saying.
Sasuke handling all that strain doesn't contradict Obito's words just your interpretation of them.
My interpretation? These aren't complex or vague sentences that can be interpreted multiple ways. When someone say's doing x, y, and z will exhaust yourself, that literally can only possibly mean that doing such will result in exhausting yourself. How else are you possibly interpreting those words? But whatever, won't be going back and fourth on this.
Again your speculating, Sasuke's chakra was changing over the course of the Kage summit and he didn't create a brand new Susanoo each time. His chakra signature has alot to do with his emotional state. She mentions here[
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], that his chakra is even colder than it was in Curse Mark 2 and then we see him slaughtering people which the old Sasuke would never do and sequent to that he's shown rushing into battle without thinking[
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]. Sasuke also doesn't have anything aside from his own chakra reserves to pull from so even if he was angry enough to do something without the reserves it can't be done. It seemed more to me like Obito was explaning that his rage helped mature his chakra signature and power and that his body responding to that change was strong enough to break free from the seal keeping him from moving and the fact that it broke the seal was impressive.
This is actually funny. You're yet again faulting me for speculating, just so you can follow up with speculation of your own. Cee notes that the chakra Sasuke used to inflict genjutsu on him was the same as the V2 Susano'o [
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], which wouldn't of been mentioned to be distinguishably different had it been the same chakra when Sasuke had the ribcage activated [
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]. Karin also notes that his chakra was different in that first scan as well, just like she did when Sasuke activated V3 against Danzo.
It seems like every time Sasuke transcends, his chakra signature increases and becomes stronger (reason why sensors keep noting that it's different). Chakra of finer quality may or may not allow Sasuke to get more mileage out of his reserves. I believe it does.
You have to keep in mind the opponents and the motivation. Everyone who wanted Itachi dead went with something huge and well planned[
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][
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]. There final attack against him is usually a last resort and they don't want to leave a chance for someone like Itachi to counter or think his way out of the situation. To be clear they aren't in the same tier and that was made clear by the Kirin implied to be enough for the job. Naruto, Sai, Sakura and Yamato werent getting taken seriously at all in the fight against Sasuke.He felt like he could kill them on a whim. You really can't compare. Sasuke was sure it was enough[
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], just like he was sure about every other attack he used during that fight and if that wasn't indicative enough the rest of the chapter was spent talking Sasuke into sparing their lives which would be unnecessary if they would have survived anyway. If Sasuke has any doubt he would have at the very least shot one Dragon Fire to erase the chance of survivors.
So because someone as arrogant as Sasuke thought he could easily take them all out, it becomes a concrete fact? That worked out well for him against Itachi and throughout the whole manga. Bringing up the difference in tiers, is hardily a counter argument. He was just as sure a much stronger Kirin was going to finish Itachi, and it didn't. We have Yamato in that same scan admitting that he was holding back, and it was time to actually get serious. So again, there is nothing there that implies Sasuke would successfully fodderize them all with a non-prepped Kirin. Just you speculating. Imagine a jutsu so convenient that requires no prep and could vaporize 4 significant characters within an instant only being thought to be of use once in the entire manga... not buying it.
You can't quantify the time it took for Sasuke to activate his V3 Susano'o, manifest the arrows, aim them, and then shoot in that page you linked. Sasuke was charging at Kakashi from on top of the bridge [
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] and then we don't see them again until they were under the bridge where Sasuke has just fired the arrows [
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]. Everything in between went off panel, so this isn't a valid feat to establish your claim.
Bold is you pointlessly grasping. He created more than enough sand in mere seconds.
I never argued he would dodge it. I said that in an aerial fight, which is why you brought that technique to the table, if Sasuke needed to sore above it he could use a standard fire ball to make an opening or one of two Great Dragon fires shot to create Kirin would be able to do it while the combination of the two sets up Kirin as well. The would create the opening to not only get above that technique but be where he needs to be to release Kirin the way he wants to. Fireball techniques should be capable of plowing through this technique.
Yes, and I was saying that Sasuke can't dodge it while aerial. Sasuke would be a single target, so the clumps of sand would all be coming after him from all different angles. It's not the same scenario where they're just raining straight down, with multiple targets underneath.
It would be this
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Coming down on him like this
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Shooting a Katon doesn't come even close to being an adequate counter to this, he gets knocked right out the sky. And the sand before coming in direct contact with the Katon could group together so it won't be overpowered, meanwhile sand clumps are coming from all directions of an 180 degree angle.
I agree but that is wasted Sand needed for defending against Sasukes attacks and even if enton is being utilized to pressure Gaara into positioning his Sand further away to lower his chance of protecting his self with a strong enough defense to somehow counter Susanoo Arrows which he already has a slim to non chance of defending against than its still of use in this fight. Any sand used to apprehend Enton flames cannot be implemented anywhere else for Gaara. He can't defend himself with it because it would be weakening his defense and bringing flames dangerously close to Gaara's face. Flames that can be manipulated by his opponent. So once they are touching the flames they have to be segregated.
Gaara's least bit of concern should be wasted sand. The concern should be Sasuke waisting chakra with Amaterasu. And to be honest, I'm not even sure what you're suggesting here. His gourd sand blocked Sasuke's Enton just fine, and was still of use to Gaara. Now take into the account of all the extra sand Gaara makes effortlessly, and none of this is a concern to him. He keeps the gourd sand with him, and the natural sand to attack Sasuke or for extra defensive measures.
Gaara is not creating sand and making a defense faster than Sasuke can create Susanoo and fire Arrows, arrows he's shown to be able to use two at a time if need be. People are arguing Susanoo Arrow's against a much grander defense than a wall of sand its practically impossible for that to even work on Susanoo Arrow. I don't see how creating a wall of sand and accelerating it towards a Susanoo Arrow does anything other than improve the piercing power of the Arrow. With the scenario you create Susanoo Arrow flies through and kills Gaara. Two forces moving fast towards each other only increases the impact and with one created to tear through the other its like asking for the opposite force to be ripped through. Lastly, that defensive wall was only used as a diversion it wasnt fast enough to catch anyone involved off guard and it is nowhere near the speeds of the attacks taking advantage of it. I just don't see how you can compare when Jouki Boy's clone was shown to move faster than his sand and it moves at high speeds which is not quicker than instantaneous abilities like Flying Thunder God and Kamui.
Yes, he is. And it's done easily. You don't have a single proper scan that showcases MS Sasuke going from base to a V3 Susano'o and instantly shooting arrows at his opponent. Danzou had enough time to counter it, and so will Gaara. And accelerating his sand towards the arrow is not what I meant.
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Basically, Gaara makes the shield but the sand grains aren't standstill. Just like how the tree was moving out of Danzo's body, the sand will be moving in a similar fashion. The impact of the arrow clashing with the direction of sand in movement (just like Danzo's tree) will shift it's trajectory as canonically shown.
Furthermore, the hardness of his sand shield is also dependent on the amount of chakra he wants to enforce it with.
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[/URL]
Susano'o arrows piercing strength is nothing extraordinary by feats to suggest it rips right threw Gaara's chakra enforced sand shield. And, I never said it was near the speeds of the attacks involved. I choose my words very carefully. As you said it was a diversion, and in order for something to work as a diversion in the midst of top tier speedy characters/techniques, the diversion would have to be fast as well. Again, the DB reiterates the speed of which was shown in the manga by noting the speed of the technique. No need to deny this. Yes, Joki boy was avoiding Gaara's sand (not gourd sand), so what? The speed can be adjusted by how much chakra Gaara wants to apply into it. Gaara couldn't even use his AoE attacks because it would of harmed the SA who was right there with him.
Chidori Nagashi is not being implemented for anything other than protecting himself from being separated from Susanoo. I never have and never would argue it against large scale sand attacks.
Im Done here you can't change people. There's literally proof in the thread and people will forever pop up with a decisive opinion not supported by anything. Feel how you want to feel. Constantly arguing Diversions against full blown attacks and speculating part one feats on a scale never shown in the manga. Instead of building up your side you just try to destroy the others.
You Subtract Sasuke's chakra reserves, flight speed, execution speed, physical speed and attack power and I'm supposed to believe that you think Gaara can win
beneath Sasuke's Susano'o, Chidori Nagashi isn't accomplishing a thing.
The rest is you whining over a manga discussion. Don't really care. Feel free to either ignore this post, or make another rebuttal. However, this will most certainly be last reply to you in full. I don't mind short discussions, but I'm not the guy who will sit here and debate endlessly over this stuff anymore.
My interpretation? These aren't complex or vague sentences that can be interpreted multiple ways. When someone say's doing x, y, and z will exhaust yourself, that literally can only possibly mean that doing such will result in exhausting yourself. How else are you possibly interpreting those words? But whatever, won't be going back and fourth on this.
This is actually funny. You're yet again faulting me for speculating, just so you can follow up with speculation of your own. Cee notes that the chakra Sasuke used to inflict genjutsu on him was the same as the V2 Susano'o [
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], which wouldn't of been mentioned to be distinguishably different had it been the same chakra when Sasuke had the ribcage activated [
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]. Karin also notes that his chakra was different in that first scan as well, just like she did when Sasuke activated V3 against Danzo.
It seems like every time Sasuke transcends, his chakra signature increases and becomes stronger (reason why sensors keep noting that it's different). Chakra of finer quality may or may not allow Sasuke to get more mileage out of his reserves. I believe it does.
because someone as arrogant as Sasuke thought he could easily take them all out, it becomes a concrete fact? That worked out well for him against Itachi and throughout the whole manga. Bringing up the difference in tiers, is hardily a counter argument. He was just as sure a much stronger Kirin was going to finish Itachi, and it didn't. We have Yamato in that same scan admitting that he was holding back, and it was time to actually get serious. So again, there is nothing there that implies Sasuke would successfully fodderize them all with a non-prepped Kirin. Just you speculating. Imagine a jutsu so convenient that requires no prep and could vaporize 4 significant characters within an instant only being thought to be of use once in the entire manga... not buying it.
can't quantify the time it took for Sasuke to activate his V3 Susano'o, manifest the arrows, aim them, and then shoot in that page you linked. Sasuke was charging at Kakashi from on top of the bridge [
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] and then we don't see them again until they were under the bridge where Sasuke has just fired the arrows [
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]. Everything in between went off panel, so this isn't a valid feat to establish your claim.
Bold is you pointlessly grasping. He created more than enough sand in mere seconds.
, and I was saying that Sasuke can't dodge it while aerial. Sasuke would be a single target, so the clumps of sand would all be coming after him from all different angles. It's not the same scenario where they're just raining straight down, with multiple targets underneath.
It would be this
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Coming down on him like this
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Shooting a Katon doesn't come even close to being an adequate counter to this, he gets knocked right out the sky. And the sand before coming in direct contact with the Katon could group together so it won't be overpowered, meanwhile sand clumps are coming from all directions of an 180 degree angle.
Can Sand Hail block and overpower Fireball Jutsu and/or Dragon Fire Jutsu?
*Sidenote Sand Hail has never actually been defended against. We have never seen a Shinobi attempt to stop this technique for it has always been used a diversion.[
least bit of concern should be wasted sand. The concern should be Sasuke waisting chakra with Amaterasu. And to be honest, I'm not even sure what you're suggesting here. His gourd sand blocked Sasuke's Enton just fine, and was still of use to Gaara. Now take into the account of all the extra sand Gaara makes effortlessly, and none of this is a concern to him. He keeps the gourd sand with him, and the natural sand to attack Sasuke or for extra defensive measures.
, he is. And it's done easily. You don't have a single proper scan that showcases MS Sasuke going from base to a V3 Susano'o and instantly shooting arrows at his opponent. Danzou had enough time to counter it, and so will Gaara. And accelerating his sand towards the arrow is not what I meant.
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Basically, Gaara makes the shield but the sand grains aren't standstill. Just like how the tree was moving out of Danzo's body, the sand will be moving in a similar fashion. The impact of the arrow clashing with the direction of sand in movement (just like Danzo's tree) will shift it's trajectory as canonically shown.
Furthermore, the hardness of his sand shield is also dependent on the amount of chakra he wants to enforce it with.
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Susano'o arrows piercing strength is nothing extraordinary by feats to suggest it rips right threw Gaara's chakra enforced sand shield. And, I never said it was near the speeds of the attacks involved. I choose my words very carefully. As you said it was a diversion, and in order for something to work as a diversion in the midst of top tier speedy characters/techniques, the diversion would have to be fast as well. Again, the DB reiterates the speed of which was shown in the manga by noting the speed of the technique. No need to deny this. Yes, Joki boy was avoiding Gaara's sand (not gourd sand), so what? The speed can be adjusted by how much chakra Gaara wants to apply into it. Gaara couldn't even use his AoE attacks because it would of harmed the SA who was right there with him.
beneath Sasuke's Susano'o, Chidori Nagashi isn't accomplishing a thing.
The rest is you whining over a manga discussion. Don't really care. Feel free to either ignore this post, or make another rebuttal. However, this will most certainly be last reply to you in full. I don't mind short discussions, but I'm not the guy who will sit here and debate endlessly over this stuff anymore.
