[VS] Gaara vs MS Sasuke

[BenjerminGaye]

I don't see Gaaras sand blocking a Susanoo Arrow maybe changing its trajectory but not blocking it. Susanoo Arrow has clearly pierce through both hashiramas wood style utilized by Danzo and the pillar everyone for some reason thinks it didn't. If Sasuke charges two Susanoo Arrows at the same time and decides to lube up gaaras defense with Amaterasu exactly where he plans to fire these
arrows they are piece straight through.

wasn't arrows blocked by mesley disruption rods tho?

 

[Microsword57]

wasn't arrows blocked by mesley disruption rods tho?

Not that same Susanoo Arrow. Those arent Solid did you forget how they are just Enton manipulated in the shape of one? That aside that wasnt even his strongest one. He used a stronger one to pierce a Juubi clone and its defense larger than Susanoo standing on top of Aoda.

Here's your viz translation

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Obito blatantly says that using Amaterasu and Susano'o simultaneously is way too much, and Sasuke will exhaust himself. The sfx around Sasuke is "huf" "huf" meaning he's breathing heavy which implies he had exhausted his chakra hence Susano'o being deactivated. No need to go to such extreme lengths to explain what happened.

It's also a futile discussion because Gaara can simply cover or burry Amaterasu with sand to prevent it from heating up the atmosphere to prep Kirin.



Sasuke not aiming his Katon at Gaara doesn't make a difference here. Gaara can control sand from anywhere he wants. Having full intel allows Gaara to immediately deduce Sasuke's plan, so he can counter accordingly. Gaara not having Shikaku doesn't make a single difference, he still retained all of his abilities seen throughout the whole manga after the Bijuu was extracted. He can make desert quantities of sand anywhere, as it was stated to be an effortless task for him as a kid.

Sasuke can't compete with Gaara in the sky because Gaara will easily knock him down with Suna Arare, and on the ground Susano'o doesn't protect from the sand underneath Sasuke's feet as seen with Madara.

The viz scan changed nothing Obito doesn't blatantly say using Amaterasu and Susanno in conjunction is too much for Sasuke your leaving out words to create a forced interpretation of what he's saying which is "its way too much for just testing his abilities." Your twisting references in your favor. Huffing doesn't mean he exhausted his chakra just tired for a moment he caught his breathe in the very next page. Hufing and pufing are also symptoms of heavy Mangekyou Sharingan usage because they are exhausting to used it doesn't prove to be excessive until he cannot create his abilities or they fall apart. If not being able to use Susanoo and Amaterasu Simultaneously was what truly forced him to deactivate Susanoo and not Sasuke being exhausted chose to conserve chakra then how would it be possible for him to manifest a higher level of Susanoo and maintain it for the entirety of the fight while utilizing its abilities and shooting a giant fireball jutsu while within it. He doesn't have to deactivate Susanoo after using both techniques it was shown that strain on the eyes is what would cause that as I posted with the scan of Version 4 Susanoo and Amaterasu flames. He had just had his chakra restore prior to that yet the technique fell apart. This strain wasn't shown on the eyes during the battle for if it was Susanoo would have been avoided completely.

Kirin can be used with or without Amaterasu or Fireballs it only boosted its strength and to think that a Kirin without would be so much weaker in power when a Kirin without any prep was implied to be able to kill team 7 early shippuden and wide enough to cover that cave indent at minimum that they were fighting in confuses me.

Gaara making a Dessert was as tall as trees. Nothing compared to the Dessert feats of what he did in the village or the wide spread dessert during the war. His piles of sand did not cover nearly are far or as tall. Sand Hail is rarely used as an offensive attack. Gaara uses it for the same feint he always does. They are not much bigger than Chidori Senbons and if Sasuke needs an opening to fly above them he just plows through them with fireball a standard one or one of two that could be setting Kirin.

Aside from it never being one of my points, Gaaras sand covering Amaterasu does nothing but delay the inevitable seeing as there's no way for him to put them out and they burn through anything it touches. Any sand touching flames is no longer of use to Gaara.

Gaara cannot make a dessert quicker than Sasuke can activate any of his Mangekyou abilities and hes not blocking Susanoo Arrows with what he carries on his back.

Chidori Nagashi if the Sand grabs him.

Gaara having full intel doesn't mean he just knows Sasuke's plan or how to deduce them just that he understands his techniques. What Gaara does with that knowledge is completely different.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Not that same Susanoo Arrow. Those arent Solid did you forget how they are just Enton manipulated in the shape of one? That aside that wasnt even his strongest one. He used a stronger one to pierce a Juubi clone and its defense larger than Susanoo standing on top of Aoda.

yeah but that's ems sasuke.

Ms sasuke's arrows are weaker by default. So it doesn't make sense to look at sasuke's strongest arrow.

 

[Microsword57]

yeah but that's ems sasuke.

Ms sasuke's arrows are weaker by default. So it doesn't make sense to look at sasuke's strongest arrow.

Ms Sasuke's Susanoo Arrows being weaker has never been proven and again they are not the same Arrows. We are only discussing EMS Sasuke because you compare one of his different attacks to one of Mangekyou Sharingan Sasuke's attacks. One is Susanoo Arrow and the other is Enton Manipulate to resemble Susanoo Arrows for the sake of range and/or quantity of flames. that technique is called Enton: Kagutsuchi. They are different I was simply making the point that even the technique you were referring to seemed under the impression that was its highest potential when chapters before it was shown on an entirely different scale.

 

[DrProof]

FT handling light work per usual.

& lol @ Chidori Nagashi doing anything to Gaara's sand. Chill Micro, before I pull up on that ass.

 

[Microsword57]

FT handling light work per usual.

& lol @ Chidori Nagashi doing anything to Gaara's sand. Chill Micro, before I pull up on that ass.

Try Me

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Ms Sasuke's Susanoo Arrows being weaker has never been proven and again they are not the same Arrows. We are only discussing EMS Sasuke because you compare one of his different attacks to one of Mangekyou Sharingan Sasuke's attacks. One is Susanoo Arrow and the other is Enton Manipulate to resemble Susanoo Arrows for the sake of range and/or quantity of flames. that technique is called Enton: Kagutsuchi. They are different I was simply making the point that even the technique you were referring to seemed under the impression that was its highest potential when chapters before it was shown on an entirely different scale.

weaker chakra. Its expected. It's like saying rikudo sasuke's arrows are comparable to ms sasukes. The quality of chakra determines the strength of the attack.

Doesn't matter. Unless you can prove that there's a tradeoff when using ama to cover the weapons then it stands to reason that both arrows are of comparable strength.

 

[KidGamer65]

weaker chakra. Its expected. It's like saying rikudo sasuke's arrows are comparable to ms sasukes. The quality of chakra determines the strength of the attack.

Doesn't matter. Unless you can prove that there's a tradeoff when using ama to cover the weapons then it stands to reason that both arrows are of comparable strength.

Why are you inventing your own rules here? "Prove there is a trade off" is not how it works. When a not solid Enton arrow shows feats above the regular one then you can say it's superior. Chakra quality is a weak cop out when talking about two completely different techniques. Sasukes strongest Susanoo rapes Madaras weakest but Madaras chakra is better.

V4>>V3>V2. Magatama got through Gaaras sand and had enough power to crack onokis golem despite them being thrown by v2 Susanoo. Susanoo arrow is usable by v3 and up. That and it ripped through Mokuton and a stone pillar. Naruto broke the black rods with his bare hands. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that an arrow made of not solid flame is inferior to the arrow with solid chakra that has better feats by display and by association with weaker techs.

 

[Microsword57]

Gaara drags them out by their arm. Sasuke is defiantly freeing himself using Chidori Nagashi and looking at the amount of sand used I just don't see how it couldn't.
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[BLAZE]

Sorry maybe i realized im getting the anime and manga confused if you rewatch the fight or just that instant you will see what im talking about. However fact of the matter is he split his defense and even half of it was able to protect him from 5 susanno swords

Yes I had read it and nowhere does he used sand bullets or split his defense in half :lol

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Why are you inventing your own rules here? "Prove there is a trade off" is not how it works. When a not solid Enton arrow shows feats above the regular one then you can say it's superior. Chakra quality is a weak cop out when talking about two completely different techniques. Sasukes strongest Susanoo rapes Madaras weakest but Madaras chakra is better.

they've already shown comparable feats. There's nothing that puts susanoo arrow below or above enton arrow.

Which sasuke were talking about here?

V4>>V3>V2. Magatama got through Gaaras sand and had enough power to crack onokis golem despite them being thrown by v2 Susanoo. Susanoo arrow is usable by v3 and up. That and it ripped through Mokuton and a stone pillar. Naruto broke the black rods with his bare hands. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that an arrow made of not solid flame is inferior to the arrow with solid chakra that has better feats by display and by association with weaker techs.

Madara used like 20 plus matanagma's in that 1 attack, so its non comparable.
Pretty sure that was sm naruto and last i checked he broke it from the sides.

 

[KidGamer65]

they've already shown comparable feats. There's nothing that puts susanoo arrow below or above enton arrow.

Which sasuke were talking about here?




Madara used like 20 plus matanagma's in that 1 attack, so its non comparable.
Pretty sure that was sm naruto and last i checked he broke it from the sides.

No they haven't. That particular arrow was used once and never used again. It's only feat is failing to destroy an object that Naruto can break with his bare hands. SM or not, doesn't matter because SM Naruto's physical strength isn't more damaging than a regular Susanoo Arrow by feats.

EMS Sasuke. Not like it matters which Sasuke because the statement holds true no matter which versions of Sasuke or Madara I use. His strongest Susanoo will always be levels above Madara's weakest.

The bold also doesn't matter. Those 20 Magatama all hit different spots. In each spot it hit it ripped through the sand and cracked Onoki's golem. 1 Susanoo Arrow from a Susanoo a level or two above>1 Magatama from a Susanoo a level or two below.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

This will probably be my last reply, I'm not into debating like this anymore.

The viz scan changed nothing Obito doesn't blatantly say using Amaterasu and Susanno in conjunction is too much for Sasuke your leaving out words to create a forced interpretation of what he's saying which is "its way too much for just testing his abilities." Your twisting references in your favor. Huffing doesn't mean he exhausted his chakra just tired for a moment he caught his breathe in the very next page. Hufing and pufing are also symptoms of heavy Mangekyou Sharingan usage because they are exhausting to used it doesn't prove to be excessive until he cannot create his abilities or they fall apart. If not being able to use Susanoo and Amaterasu Simultaneously was what truly forced him to deactivate Susanoo and not Sasuke being exhausted chose to conserve chakra then how would it be possible for him to manifest a higher level of Susanoo and maintain it for the entirety of the fight while utilizing its abilities and shooting a giant fireball jutsu while within it. He doesn't have to deactivate Susanoo after using both techniques it was shown that strain on the eyes is what would cause that as I posted with the scan of Version 4 Susanoo and Amaterasu flames. He had just had his chakra restore prior to that yet the technique fell apart. This strain wasn't shown on the eyes during the battle for if it was Susanoo would have been avoided completely.

If I was attempting to fabricate anything, I wouldn't of supplied the page for you to read for yourself. I'll type out the whole two sentences out this time then. "First Susano'o, now Amaterasu... You'll exhaust yourself". What did Sasuke just do? Use Susano'o and then Amaterasu simultaneously. "It's way too much for just testing his abilities". So yes, Obito quite literally, and blatantly said, that using these two MS techniques in conjunction will result in chakra exhaustion, and will be too much for him to handle for testing out his abilities. What am I missing here? The manga quite literally say's that Sasuke can't handle using them both together, which resulted in Susano'o deactivating. If he could handle all the strain and chakra exhaustion to maintain Susano'o, then it would directly contradict Obito's statements.

Him suddenly manifested another level of Susano'o was explained

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. From my understanding, his rage allowed him to unlock and manifest a different and stronger chakra signature.

Kirin can be used with or without Amaterasu or Fireballs it only boosted its strength and to think that a Kirin without would be so much weaker in power when a Kirin without any prep was implied to be able to kill team 7 early shippuden and wide enough to cover that cave indent at minimum that they were fighting in confuses me.

Kirins DB description say's that Sasuke heats the atmosphere first with Katon. Sasuke had no idea of Susano'o's existence, and yet went through all that trouble to prep Kirin as large as it was just to take out Itachi. Nothing was implied that a non-prepped Kirin would successfully take out Naruto, Sai, Sakura, and Yamato without failing.

Gaara making a Dessert was as tall as trees. Nothing compared to the Dessert feats of what he did in the village or the wide spread dessert during the war. His piles of sand did not cover nearly are far or as tall. Sand Hail is rarely used as an offensive attack. Gaara uses it for the same feint he always does. They are not much bigger than Chidori Senbons and if Sasuke needs an opening to fly above them he just plows through them with fireball a standard one or one of two that could be setting Kirin.

Part 1 Gaara created a sand tsunami tall enough to dwarf Kimimaro, which completely and comfortably covered the entire landscape - and he did so very quickly. He noted that doing so was effortless. Now, if a much more experienced Gaara put actual effort into creating as much sand as he possibly could, it should exceed his part 1 feat by a significant margin. I'm imagining something on Kisame's scale, which allows him to accomplish the same feats shown in an actual desert.

Suna Arare is a much larger version of Sand Hail. It's not something you dodge, you have to block it.

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Aside from it never being one of my points, Gaaras sand covering Amaterasu does nothing but delay the inevitable seeing as there's no way for him to put them out and they burn through anything it touches. Any sand touching flames is no longer of use to Gaara.

Gaara cannot make a dessert quicker than Sasuke can activate any of his Mangekyou abilities and hes not blocking Susanoo Arrows with what he carries on his back.

Chidori Nagashi if the Sand grabs him.

Gaara having full intel doesn't mean he just knows Sasuke's plan or how to deduce them just that he understands his techniques. What Gaara does with that knowledge is completely different.

What? Sand insulates heat. If he layers Amaterasu with a heavy blanket of sand or buries it underground, it's heat will not escape into the atmosphere.

He doesn't need to create an entire desert. By the time Sasuke activates V3 Susano'o, manifests and aims his arrow, Gaara will easily make executions to make Sasuke's attempt ineffective.

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This was done extremely quickly next to extremely fast characters and techniques, even the DB puts emphasis on it's speed. He can keep the sand grains in constant movement towards an outward direction so when the arrow hits, it will be knocked off it's path exactly what happened

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. By this time, Gaara can create bunshins to scatter all over the place and confuse Sasuke. From there Gaara creates his desert and it's really a GG. Chidori Nagashi is not stopping the constant surge of sand coming at Sasuke, that's just silly.

 

[BLAZE]

How the hell can anyone argue that sasuke cannot use susanoo with amaterasu when he has already done that while fighting Ei and samurai's. using a scan of sasuke running out of chakra against danzo.Next what Itachi needs prep time for amaterasu lmao
Also considering Sasuke's amaterasu orb on V4 susanoo is not for show he would not need to cast amaterasu during the fight to prep kirin

 

[Oblivionx]

Gaara beats unrestricted MS sasuke. Only EMS sasuke can beat gaara, especially in a desert.

 

[Microsword57]

This will probably be my last reply, I'm not into debating like this anymore.



If I was attempting to fabricate anything, I wouldn't of supplied the page for you to read for yourself. I'll type out the whole two sentences out this time then. "First Susano'o, now Amaterasu... You'll exhaust yourself". What did Sasuke just do? Use Susano'o and then Amaterasu simultaneously. "It's way too much for just testing his abilities". So yes, Obito quite literally, and blatantly said, that using these two MS techniques in conjunction will result in chakra exhaustion, and will be too much for him to handle for testing out his abilities. What am I missing here? The manga quite literally say's that Sasuke can't handle using them both together, which resulted in Susano'o deactivating. If he could handle all the strain and chakra exhaustion to maintain Susano'o, then it would directly contradict Obito's statements.

The Underline is Completely true and has not been denied once.
The Bold is where you speculation comes in and is created arbitrarily. Thats all i'm saying.
Sasuke handling all that strain doesn't contradict Obito's words just your interpretation of them.

Him suddenly manifested another level of Susano'o was explained

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. From my understanding, his rage allowed him to unlock and manifest a different and stronger chakra signature.

Again your speculating, Sasuke's chakra was changing over the course of the Kage summit and he didn't create a brand new Susanoo each time. His chakra signature has alot to do with his emotional state. She mentions here[

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], that his chakra is even colder than it was in Curse Mark 2 and then we see him slaughtering people which the old Sasuke would never do and sequent to that he's shown rushing into battle without thinking[

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]. Sasuke also doesn't have anything aside from his own chakra reserves to pull from so even if he was angry enough to do something without the reserves it can't be done. It seemed more to me like Obito was explaning that his rage helped mature his chakra signature and power and that his body responding to that change was strong enough to break free from the seal keeping him from moving and the fact that it broke the seal was impressive.

Kirins DB description say's that Sasuke heats the atmosphere first with Katon. Sasuke had no idea of Susano'o's existence, and yet went through all that trouble to prep Kirin as large as it was just to take out Itachi. Nothing was implied that a non-prepped Kirin would successfully take out Naruto, Sai, Sakura, and Yamato without failing.

You have to keep in mind the opponents and the motivation. Everyone who wanted Itachi dead went with something huge and well planned[

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]. There final attack against him is usually a last resort and they don't want to leave a chance for someone like Itachi to counter or think his way out of the situation. To be clear they aren't in the same tier and that was made clear by the Kirin implied to be enough for the job. Naruto, Sai, Sakura and Yamato werent getting taken seriously at all in the fight against Sasuke.He felt like he could kill them on a whim. You really can't compare. Sasuke was sure it was enough[

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], just like he was sure about every other attack he used during that fight and if that wasn't indicative enough the rest of the chapter was spent talking Sasuke into sparing their lives which would be unnecessary if they would have survived anyway. If Sasuke has any doubt he would have at the very least shot one Dragon Fire to erase the chance of survivors.

Part 1 Gaara created a sand tsunami tall enough to dwarf Kimimaro, which completely and comfortably covered the entire landscape - and he did so very quickly. He noted that doing so was effortless. Now, if a much more experienced Gaara put actual effort into creating as much sand as he possibly could, it should exceed his part 1 feat by a significant margin. I'm imagining something on Kisame's scale, which allows him to accomplish the same feats shown in an actual desert.

Yeah but again as quick is he created that sand it doesn't compare to the speed Sasuke can create and fire his attacks[

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][

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], and Gaara only create enough to swallow Kimmaru and nearby trees.It wasn't as wide considering there were areas of grass outside of his sand[

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].

Suna Arare is a much larger version of Sand Hail. It's not something you dodge, you have to block it.

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I never argued he would dodge it. I said that in an aerial fight, which is why you brought that technique to the table, if Sasuke needed to sore above it he could use a standard fire ball to make an opening or one of two Great Dragon fires shot to create Kirin would be able to do it while the combination of the two sets up Kirin as well. The would create the opening to not only get above that technique but be where he needs to be to release Kirin the way he wants to. Fireball techniques should be capable of plowing through this technique.

What? Sand insulates heat. If he layers Amaterasu with a heavy blanket of sand or buries it underground, it's heat will not escape into the atmosphere.

I agree but that is wasted Sand needed for defending against Sasukes attacks and even if enton is being utilized to pressure Gaara into positioning his Sand further away to lower his chance of protecting his self with a strong enough defense to somehow counter Susanoo Arrows which he already has a slim to non chance of defending against than its still of use in this fight. Any sand used to apprehend Enton flames cannot be implemented anywhere else for Gaara. He can't defend himself with it because it would be weakening his defense and bringing flames dangerously close to Gaara's face. Flames that can be manipulated by his opponent. So once they are touching the flames they have to be segregated.

He doesn't need to create an entire desert. By the time Sasuke activates V3 Susano'o, manifests and aims his arrow, Gaara will easily make executions to make Sasuke's attempt ineffective.

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This was done extremely quickly next to extremely fast characters and techniques, even the DB puts emphasis on it's speed. He can keep the sand grains in constant movement towards an outward direction so when the arrow hits, it will be knocked off it's path exactly what happened

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. By this time, Gaara can create bunshins to scatter all over the place and confuse Sasuke. From there Gaara creates his desert and it's really a GG. Chidori Nagashi is not stopping the constant surge of sand coming at Sasuke, that's just silly.

Gaara is not creating sand and making a defense faster than Sasuke can create Susanoo and fire Arrows, arrows he's shown to be able to use two at a time if need be. People are arguing Susanoo Arrow's against a much grander defense than a wall of sand its practically impossible for that to even work on Susanoo Arrow. I don't see how creating a wall of sand and accelerating it towards a Susanoo Arrow does anything other than improve the piercing power of the Arrow. With the scenario you create Susanoo Arrow flies through and kills Gaara. Two forces moving fast towards each other only increases the impact and with one created to tear through the other its like asking for the opposite force to be ripped through. Lastly, that defensive wall was only used as a diversion it wasnt fast enough to catch anyone involved off guard and it is nowhere near the speeds of the attacks taking advantage of it. I just don't see how you can compare when Jouki Boy's clone was shown to move faster than his sand and it moves at high speeds which is not quicker than instantaneous abilities like Flying Thunder God and Kamui.

For the record[

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].

And that was made with his self creating dessert.

Chidori Nagashi is not being implemented for anything other than protecting himself from being separated from Susanoo. I never have and never would argue it against large scale sand attacks.

Im Done here you can't change people. There's literally proof in the thread and people will forever pop up with a decisive opinion not supported by anything. Feel how you want to feel. Constantly arguing Diversions against full blown attacks and speculating part one feats on a scale never shown in the manga. Instead of building up your side you just try to destroy the others.

You Subtract Sasuke's chakra reserves, flight speed, execution speed, physical speed and attack power and I'm supposed to believe that you think Gaara can win

 

[KidGamer65]

The Underline is Completely true and has not been denied once.
The Bold is where you speculation comes in and is created arbitrarily. Thats all i'm saying.
Sasuke handling all that strain doesn't contradict Obito's words just your interpretation of them.

This actually helped me realize that Sasuke not being able to use Amaterasu and Susanoo together is actually wrong.

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Sasuke's Susanoo wasn't cancelled, he deactivated it to chase after Danzo and to conserve energy. First page shows him jump and the second one shows him land on the platform. Us saying he can't use them together doesn't even make sense as he had the chakra to continue using higher levels of Susanoo yet he can't use lower levels along with Amaterasu.

And like you said, Obito never said he can't use both together, he only said that using them in succession while testing his abilities could exhaust hin. That and he used Susanoo + Amaterasu against Ay.

 

[Styles]

Sasuke wins even with V1 it's sword shockwaves was strong enough to nearly destroy the kage summit. And Gaara's sand is slow af.

Gaara drags them out by their arm. Sasuke is defiantly freeing himself using Chidori Nagashi and looking at the amount of sand used I just don't see how it couldn't.
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People seem to forget that vs Madara Oonoki also made Gaara's sand and the ground lighter which was why he was able to do that feat in the 1st place.

Spoiler

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[NarutoX28]

If the location isn't a desert, then Sasuke shits on Gaara with Susano'o Arrow before Gaara's Gourd Sand can create enough sand to stop it.

 

[DHOH]

If the location isn't a desert, then Sasuke shits on Gaara with Susano'o Arrow before Gaara's Gourd Sand can create enough sand to stop it.

Susanoo arrow is restricted