How strong was Indra?

Holy God

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According to your logic you're saying she has mokuton which she doesn't. yin element and yang element is not a kekkai genkai, if you keep saying that they are the same then you're saying sakura has mokuton.


Kakashi has all 7 elements but he does not have the kekkai genkai like I stated before. Kakashi has yin element and yang element yet he does not have yin yang release.

So whether you like it or not you need to realize that Naruto does not have yin release but he does have yin yang release (kekkeai genkai).
That's backwards to what he's saying. He's saying if you have the combination, you have the requirements, not if you have the requirements, you have the combination.

What he's saying:

Having Yin-Yang Style means you have Yin Style and Yang Style
Having Wood Style means you have Water Style and Earth Style

What you're saying he's saying:

Having Yin Style and Yang Style means you have Yin-Yang Style
Having Water Style and Earth Style means you have Wood Style
 

Rikudou Tobi

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That's backwards to what he's saying. He's saying if you have the combination, you have the requirements, not if you have the requirements, you have the combination.

What he's saying:

Having Yin-Yang Style means you have Yin Style and Yang Style
Having Wood Style means you have Water Style and Earth Style

What you're saying he's saying:

Having Yin Style and Yang Style means you have Yin-Yang Style
Having Water Style and Earth Style means you have Wood Style
He's saying that having yin element and yang element means you have Yin and Yang style, which is wrong because every skilled element user will have a Kekkai genkai.

The only reason why he assumes Hashirama has yin release is because he used a genjutsu bringer of darkness. And for naruto which combining all 5 natures= shadow and light style is the reason why that should automatically give you shadow style individually.
Which you know is wrong.
 

Holy God

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He's saying that having yin element and yang element means you have Yin and Yang style, which is wrong because every skilled element user will have a Kekkai genkai.

The only reason why he assumes Hashirama has yin release is because he used a genjutsu bringer of darkness. And for naruto which combining all 5 natures= shadow and light style is the reason why that should automatically give you shadow style individually.
Which you know is wrong.
I'm pretty sure he's saying the opposite, because he even says that even though Kakashi is proficient in all base elements doesn't mean he can use all those bloodline limits and denies your example of Sakura.

No your wrong sakura would have to display mokuton. Kakashi has 4 elements and doesn't have kekkei tota or above.
In which case I would agree with him, since if someone used Wood Style they must have both Water Style and Earth Style. I would assume the same for Yin-Yang Style but I can't prove it.
 

NarutoX28

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That's common sense. Yin-Yang Release is a Kekkei Genkai, so we can assume that the combination of two of those elements (not fragments, but at its fullest power) can bring about Yin-Yang Release.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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I'm pretty sure he's saying the opposite, because he even says that even though Kakashi is proficient in all base elements doesn't mean he can use all those bloodline limits and denies your example of Sakura.
He must of misunderstood the Sakura example because I'm saying that she can't use the kekkai genkai. I'm trying to tell him that the two elements is not the same as the kekkai genkai.

Anyways according to Yamato in order to use the release you need to be using the properties simultaneously at he same time but not individually. But to use the shadow and light style that naruto has they said you need to use all +5 elements together. And the databook confirms that Ashura incarnates don't have yin nature.
 

Holy God

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He must of misunderstood the Sakura example because I'm saying that she can't use the kekkai genkai. I'm trying to tell him that the two elements is not the same as the kekkai genkai.
He was saying the same thing. He's saying just because you have the elements doesn't mean you can form the bloodline limit. The Hashirama thing is separate from that argument.

Anyways according to Yamato in order to use the release you need to be using the properties simultaneously at he same time but not individually. But to use the shadow and light style that naruto has they said you need to use all +5 elements together. And the databook confirms that Ashura incarnates don't have yin nature.
Naruto never said that? I'm pretty sure what salamander uchiha was referring to was when it was said by Black Zetsu and hinted by Hiruzen that Truth-Seeking Spheres are combinations of all chakra natures, including Yin and Yang.
 

salamander uchiha

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That's backwards to what he's saying. He's saying if you have the combination, you have the requirements, not if you have the requirements, you have the combination.

What he's saying:

Having Yin-Yang Style means you have Yin Style and Yang Style
Having Wood Style means you have Water Style and Earth Style

What you're saying he's saying:

Having Yin Style and Yang Style means you have Yin-Yang Style
Having Water Style and Earth Style means you have Wood Style
At least somebody understands. The other 1 thinks by having 5 nature's you have you cant access to shadow style automatically which is not possible since inton itself is a separate type of skill just as yang release is. I'm also saying you can have 2 affinities and still not be able to fuse them.
Like kakashi as an example or Tobirama who has all 5 + yin And yang.
 

whiteboy2345

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You must have forgot the point of this conversation, because in my first post towards you I specifically said Hagoromo did not say the power he gave Naruto and Sasuke was the same as that he gave Ashura. You then proceeded to give your own definition of "it" that made no sense. If you cannot justify that the powers were the same, you have no evidence.
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salamander uchiha

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You before said it came from the tablet and now you say it didn't. Please pick a side.





He says it in the tablet and you already said yourself that it was in the tablet. You can't refute my point because my point comes straight from Hagoromo. You're trying to refute the manga and that just doesn't work.
Read carefully the sage wrote the history of what happened in the tablet not about Ashira having Yang body and Lifeforce. Now if you can show the scan where Hogaromo says that then I'll accept your point. I said probably black zetsu wrote it there. We only know of the tablet what Hogaromo confirms and Madara to a a degree(like what he tells Hashirama).
 

Rikudou Tobi

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He was saying the same thing. He's saying just because you have the elements doesn't mean you can form the bloodline limit. The Hashirama thing is separate from that argument.
Then why does he think Hashirama has yin release?

Naruto never said that? I'm pretty sure what salamander uchiha was referring to was when it was said by Black Zetsu and hinted by Hiruzen that Truth-Seeking Spheres are combinations of all chakra natures, including Yin and Yang.
No, yamato said that when he was teaching Naruto nature properties.
I thought the expansive kekkai mora included yin element and yang element while Tsb is 5 elements but I could be wrong.
 

Holy God

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Read carefully the sage wrote the history of what happened in the tablet not about Ashira having Yang body and Lifeforce. Now if you can show the scan where Hogaromo says that then I'll accept your point. I said probably black zetsu wrote it there. We only know of the tablet what Hogaromo confirms and Madara to a a degree(like what he tells Hashirama).
If you can give me another source where Madara and Obito could have learned about Indra and Ashura, we can continue from that, but there isn't any to my knowledge. Black Zetsu has the information, but since he was pretending to be Madara's will, he couldn't have told Madara or Obito anything from back then or else his disguise wouldn't be believable.

Either way, you have to understand that Hagoromo only addressed Ashura awakening chakra. This chakra is what gives him powers and what gives Indra his special eyes in the first place. Just the fact that Hagoromo says this and then says this chakra gave him power equivalent to Indra's is enough.
 

Holy God

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Then why does he think Hashirama has yin release?
Probably because he used a Yin-Style technique, but that doesn't have to do with elemental combination stuff we were talking about. As you can see, he was definitely agreeing with you on that point:



No, yamato said that when he was teaching Naruto nature properties.
I thought the expansive kekkai mora included yin element and yang element while Tsb is 5 elements but I could be wrong.
I was talking about this:

"But to use the shadow and light style that naruto has they said you need to use all +5 elements together."

Which I mistakenly thought you said Naruto made that statement. Regardless of who said it though, I'm pretty sure Naruto's usage of Yin-Yang Style is never addressed by anyone?

Black Zetsu says the Truth-Seeking Spheres (or at least specifically Kaguya's) is made of all elemental natures including Yin Style and Yang Style, while the Databook says the same thing (about the ones Six Paths Sage Mode users use) but instead of Yin Style and Yang Style uses Yin-Yang Style in wording.
 
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Rikudou Tobi

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Probably because he used a Yin-Style technique, but that doesn't have to do with elemental combination stuff we were talking about. As you can see, he was definitely agreeing with you on that point:

Bringer of darkness is just the only technique Hashirama knows that is a genjustu, that doesn't mean he's a yin element user as the databook shows.


I was talking about this:

"But to use the shadow and light style that naruto has they said you need to use all +5 elements together."

Which I mistakenly thought you said Naruto made that statement. Regardless of who said it though, I'm pretty sure Naruto's usage of Yin-Yang Style is never addressed by anyone?
Idk thought I read it somewhere it's been talked about even way before the raw databook.
Black Zetsu says the Truth-Seeking Spheres (or at least specifically Kaguya's) is made of all elemental natures including Yin Style and Yang Style, while the Databook says the same thing (about the ones Six Paths Sage Mode users use) but instead of Yin Style and Yang Style uses Yin-Yang Style.
I know about Kaguya's but I'm going to hold off on the fan translated text in the databook. Besides that, the only other way of gaining yin yang style is by inheriting the mental energy and physical energy of the Sage Hagormoo.
 

Hagoromo sennin

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Indra's chakra is much greater than Ashura's chakra
Ashura's avatar size = head of Indra's susanoo


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lmao!!!!

whatever you are high on,i want some....
they are the same size fool....
considering Ashura has the 'Bodily' abilities here,coupled with RSM,his chakra level is way beyound that of Indra.
 
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