MS Sasuke was a level above SM Naruto

[SenseiSama]

He was healed right before he fought danzo so fighting the kage didn't matter.obito warned him of the seal. If sasuke wasnt healed danzo wouldn't have had to grab karin he couldve grabbed sasuke who couldn't move barely .

So now you're saying in Sasuke's scenario Naruto would've won ? Getfo, the entire summit had intel on him and ganged up, yet he was still about to come out on top. SM Naruto didn't have anything in his arsenal to beat an semi army that would've known everything about his fighting style

 

[KidGamer65]

And for people using Naruto's encounters to prove he's superior should stop using crap logic.

Vs. Pain. SM Naruto had intel, help from the Toad Sages and only managed to kill 5 bodies before Deva spanked him. MS Sasuke at full power would've slaughtered the other 5 paths long before Deva regained his strength. Sasuke's techniques are more lethal and too fast for Pain to avoid (Kakashi couldn't dodge Susanoo Arrow and he's easily faster than any body of Pain besides Deva) and only Preta can absorb Ninjutsu.

Vs. 3rd Raikage. I see people (probably mostly trolls) saying that since 3rd>4th and Naruto beat the 3rd while Sasuke would've likely tied or barely defeated the 4th that SM Naruto>MS Sasuke, but Naruto didn't win because he was stronger, he won because he used Raikage's strength against him. Entire point of that fight. KCM Naruto was fighting him with all he had and wasn't doing anything to him at all and was going to be slaughtered had he not gotten intel about Nukite and his scar.

-Sasuke only had a Ribcage Susanoo, the first stage. Full Power MS Sasuke has a fully evolved Susanoo.
-Using this shit logic means that you are arguing SM Naruto>KCM Naruto because KCM Naruto was losing. :lol
-Put MS Sasuke in that same scenario and give him the same intel and the Raikage gets defeated.

Lol, so using a combination attack with KCM Naruto is keeping up with KCM Naruto. That makes no sense.
While I agree EMS Sasuke > KCM Naruto but saying MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto is nothing but fanfic.

That's a blatant display of him matching his power, so yes, they are keeping up with each other in that scan. V3 Susanoo is all Sasuke needs to match, or rather, counter Naruto's strongest attack available to him in KCM. This is also why MS Sasuke slaughters SM Naruto, because his strongest attacks are literally useless due to Enton.

MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto. That's not fanfic. That's why this thread has reached 9 pages yet not one person in here has given any valid explanation for how Naruto wins or how they are equal.

MS Sasuke vs. Danzo>= SM Naruto.
KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke w/ full power>>SM Naruto.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

And for people using Naruto's encounters to prove he's superior should stop using crap logic.

Vs. Pain. SM Naruto had intel, help from the Toad Sages and only managed to kill 5 bodies before Deva spanked him. MS Sasuke at full power would've slaughtered the other 5 paths long before Deva regained his strength. Sasuke's techniques are more lethal and too fast for Pain to avoid (Kakashi couldn't dodge Susanoo Arrow and he's easily faster than any body of Pain besides Deva) and only Preta can absorb Ninjutsu.

Saying Sasuke would slaughter the 5 peins before Deva regained his powers is nothing but speculation and nothing but underestimating the other 5 paths. Animal path could easily overwhelm him and force him to use amaterasu on a huge scal which would take a huge toll on him and Preta path could absorb any direct attacks. Then there's the Susanoo arrow which again the paths may not be able to dodge but preta again would be able to nullify it and Sasuke won't be able to maintain his susanoo for long after using amaterasu on such a large scale. The 5 Paths have every possiblity of delaying Sasuke long enough for Deva's powers to return and this is assuming Sasuke also receives similar intel as Naruto did. Then Sasuke gets spanked.

Vs. 3rd Raikage. I see people (probably mostly trolls) saying that since 3rd>4th and Naruto beat the 3rd while Sasuke would've likely tied or barely defeated the 4th that SM Naruto>MS Sasuke, but Naruto didn't win because he was stronger, he won because he used Raikage's strength against him. Entire point of that fight. KCM Naruto was fighting him with all he had and wasn't doing anything to him at all and was going to be slaughtered had he not gotten intel about Nukite and his scar.

Well tactics matter in a fight, and while Sasuke struggled against the 4th Raikage and would've lost, Naruto managed to beat his stronger version the 3rd Raikage, sure he struggled but he found a way to beat him and if I am not wrong it was just one of his clones lol. Same thing happened during VoTE 2. When you consider two fighters you consider their offensive and defensive skills along with their tactical prowess. I am not simply comapring who is more powerful based on strength alone.

-Sasuke only had a Ribcage Susanoo, the first stage. Full Power MS Sasuke has a fully evolved Susanoo.
-Using this shit logic means that you are arguing SM Naruto>KCM Naruto because KCM Naruto was losing. :lol
-Put MS Sasuke in that same scenario and give him the same intel and the Raikage gets defeated.

More speculation. Like Sasuke would've taken down 5 paths of Pein or beaten the 3rd when he clearly struggled hard against the 4th.

That's a blatant display of him matching his power, so yes, they are keeping up with each other in that scan. V3 Susanoo is all Sasuke needs to match, or rather, counter Naruto's strongest attack available to him in KCM. This is also why MS Sasuke slaughters SM Naruto, because his strongest attacks are literally useless due to Enton.

It was nothing more than a combination attack. And even if his enton attacks are stronger than SM Naruto's attacks they're no good if they don't hit the target in this case SM Naruto. And doesn't matter what version of Susanoo he used, he had the EMS by then and contrary to what many fapboys would say that its nothing but a means to remove the MS limitations, Sasuke acknowledges that it made him powerful.
Sure enton would pose a huge problem for Naruto to attack Sasuke directly but that's all they can do. SM Naruto is fast enough to perceive and dodge an enton attack, heck even base Naruto was able to react to Sasuke's amaterasu during VoTE 2 and Sasuke can't keep using his enton attacks carelessly. Then there is the Susanoo which takes quite the toll on both his body and eyes and would play against his ability to fight if Naruto is able to prolong the battle using his shadow clones to attack. Frog Kata negs in taijutsu.

MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto. That's not fanfic. That's why this thread has reached 9 pages yet not one person in here has given any valid explanation for how Naruto wins or how they are equal.

Read above. SM Naruto destroys MS Sasuke and yes it has reached 9 pages because people love speculating more that relying on facts.

MS Sasuke vs. Danzo>= SM Naruto.
KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke w/ full power>>SM Naruto.

SM Naruto >= MS Sasuke
EMS Sasuke > KCM Naruto

 

[KidGamer65]

Saying Sasuke would slaughter the 5 peins before Deva regained his powers is nothing but speculation and nothing but underestimating the other 5 paths. Animal path could easily overwhelm him and force him to use amaterasu on a huge scal which would take a huge toll on him and Preta path could absorb any direct attacks. Then there's the Susanoo arrow which again the paths may not be able to dodge but preta again would be able to nullify it and Sasuke won't be able to maintain his susanoo for long after using amaterasu on such a large scale. The 5 Paths have every possiblity of delaying Sasuke long enough for Deva's powers to return and this is assuming Sasuke also receives similar intel as Naruto did. Then Sasuke gets spanked.

If what I'm saying is speculation then this entire thread is speculation. That's exactly how arguments are done here. Anyway, no. Your argument ignores parts of Sasuke's abilities thus it's not valid. You list abilities without actually thinking about how a scenario would play out if said abilities were used.

-Preta can absorb Susanoo Arrow, but the other 5 can't. Preta can't guard all 5 at once nor is he fast enough to intercept an arrow Kakashi was forced to use Kamui on. Without Deva they can't block the arrow thus picking them off will not be hard.

-Animal Path's summons die when Animal Path vanishes just like any other summoner and it's summon. No need to kill the summons individually and even if he needed to, Susanoo and Enton mow them down in seconds. So no, there is no reason for Sasuke to try and spam Amaterasu against every summon. That's ridiculous.

Well tactics matter in a fight, and while Sasuke struggled against the 4th Raikage and would've lost, Naruto managed to beat his stronger version the 3rd Raikage, sure he struggled but he found a way to beat him and if I am not wrong it was just one of his clones lol. Same thing happened during VoTE 2. When you consider two fighters you consider their offensive and defensive skills along with their tactical prowess. I am not simply comapring who is more powerful based on strength alone.

That doesn't make sense. Strength is what determines rankings. Tactics matter in a fight, not in a general ranking. That's why KCM Naruto is stronger than SM Naruto, yet SM Naruto beat the Raikage while KCM Naruto didn't. SM Naruto beating Raikage has nothing to do with strength, just tactics. This also doesn't really matter because Sasuke struggled against the Raikage when he had his weakest version of Susanoo.


So drop this argument unless you are going to tell me that KCM is inferior to SM.

More speculation. Like Sasuke would've taken down 5 paths of Pein or beaten the 3rd when he clearly struggled hard against the 4th.

Yeah, no. Everything I said is true. Calling it speculation without addressing it doesn't do you any favors. Sasuke w/ Ribcage struggled against the 4th and would've ended the fight in a tie. Sasuke w/ v4>>>>>Sasuke w/ v1. Why am I even explaining this to you? This should be common sense but of course I don't expect you people to use it.

It was nothing more than a combination attack. And even if his enton attacks are stronger than SM Naruto's attacks they're no good if they don't hit the target in this case SM Naruto. And doesn't matter what version of Susanoo he used, he had the EMS by then and contrary to what many fapboys would say that its nothing but a means to remove the MS limitations, Sasuke acknowledges that it made him powerful.

Sure enton would pose a huge problem for Naruto to attack Sasuke directly but that's all they can do. SM Naruto is fast enough to perceive and dodge an enton attack, heck even base Naruto was able to react to Sasuke's amaterasu during VoTE 2 and Sasuke can't keep using his enton attacks carelessly. Then there is the Susanoo which takes quite the toll on both his body and eyes and would play against his ability to fight if Naruto is able to prolong the battle using his shadow clones to attack. Frog Kata negs in taijutsu.

V4 w/o legs>V3 w/o legs. I don't care if Sasuke had EMS or not because that fact doesn't change. EMS made him more powerful because his Susanoo has a lower body, he has freer control over Enton and his techniques don't take a toll on him. That and each version of his Susanoo got stronger than what it was before. That doesn't mean V3 is automatically>a Susanoo a level above because of it. That is unless you are willing to prove it, but you can't so leave it alone.

-Base Naruto didn't react to Amaterasu physically.
-Being able to dodge Enton is irrelevant. It's purpose is to fuel Kirin and fodderize FRS. Susanoo Arrow is what Naruto can't dodge, that is unless you have the speed feats, along w/ Kirin and he gets raped in close combat by said Susanoo.

The only semi valid argument you have is stamina, and if he lasted long enough to defeat Danzo's 10 minute+ Izanagi then he'll last long enough to kill Naruto when the latter's techniques are literally useless. Taijutsu is irrelevant because Sasuke is not going to fight him in Taijutsu. What's even funnier is that you've listed no win method for Naruto. :lol The closest thing I'm seeing is "Naruto prolongs the fight by spamming his fodder clones". Come on now.

Read above. SM Naruto destroys MS Sasuke and yes it has reached 9 pages because people love speculating more that relying on facts.

:lol Don't quote me looking for an argument if all you can do is call everything you have no counter for speculation. MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto.

-Enton rapes Rasen Shuriken.
-Enton projectiles deals w/ clone spam.
-Susanoo Arrow kills Naruto.
-Kirin kills Naruto.
-If Naruto tries to fight Sasuke up close Susanoo rapes him, or Sasuke gets up close himself and rapes him.
-Susanoo also rapes clone spam.

 

[Tyris]

I think it's a little more nuanced than that. Naruto's words were "You can't beat Sasuke just by being strong." I think that his definition of defeating Sasuke was informed by his understanding, at least in part, of their status as transmigrants, doomed to fight a never-ending battle of reincarnation. In Naruto's conversation with Hagoromo, he revealed that, in his clash with Sasuke, he became aware that something was up, and that some other presence was inside Sasuke. Naruto was unconsciously aware of the fate that awaits Ashura/Indra transmigrants, namely that "If we fight, we both die."

Now, given how this series works, it's always possible that a blind Sasuke could pull some extra chakra out due to plot and create a credible threat to Naruto. However, as it stands, he couldn't even maintain his Susano'o, or even his Sharingan, against Kakashi. I think the fair interpretation of the way Naruto and Sasuke left things was that, when next they met on the battlefield, they would each be at peak strength: Sasuke, with his EMS, and Naruto with mastery over the Kyuubi's chakra. Naruto needed Kurama, not to defeat a blind, fatigued Sasuke, but rather to stand a chance against a full-strength EMS Sasuke. That, in my view, is a much fairer reading of the manga, particularly given how far above MS Sasuke's power Naruto became with KCM+.

I wasn't talking of a fight with a blind sasuke... he's not Madara & Tobi would've **** slapped Naruto & co if needed. I'm just noting the typical jutsu clash even after not being able to maintain newly awakened doujutsu and being taxed..

And even by all the reincarnation crap Naruto was clearly stating his current self was not ready for a MS Sasuke battle being that even if unconsciously he needed more if not full powerups to break the cycle.

 

[Tyris]

And for people using Naruto's encounters to prove he's superior should stop using crap logic.

Vs. Pain. SM Naruto had intel, help from the Toad Sages and only managed to kill 5 bodies before Deva spanked him. MS Sasuke at full power would've slaughtered the other 5 paths long before Deva regained his strength. Sasuke's techniques are more lethal and too fast for Pain to avoid (Kakashi couldn't dodge Susanoo Arrow and he's easily faster than any body of Pain besides Deva) and only Preta can absorb Ninjutsu.

Vs. 3rd Raikage. I see people (probably mostly trolls) saying that since 3rd>4th and Naruto beat the 3rd while Sasuke would've likely tied or barely defeated the 4th that SM Naruto>MS Sasuke, but Naruto didn't win because he was stronger, he won because he used Raikage's strength against him. Entire point of that fight. KCM Naruto was fighting him with all he had and wasn't doing anything to him at all and was going to be slaughtered had he not gotten intel about Nukite and his scar.

-Sasuke only had a Ribcage Susanoo, the first stage. Full Power MS Sasuke has a fully evolved Susanoo.
-Using this shit logic means that you are arguing SM Naruto>KCM Naruto because KCM Naruto was losing. :lol
-Put MS Sasuke in that same scenario and give him the same intel and the Raikage gets defeated.



That's a blatant display of him matching his power, so yes, they are keeping up with each other in that scan. V3 Susanoo is all Sasuke needs to match, or rather, counter Naruto's strongest attack available to him in KCM. This is also why MS Sasuke slaughters SM Naruto, because his strongest attacks are literally useless due to Enton.

MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto. That's not fanfic. That's why this thread has reached 9 pages yet not one person in here has given any valid explanation for how Naruto wins or how they are equal.

MS Sasuke vs. Danzo>= SM Naruto.
KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke w/ full power>>SM Naruto.

I gotta admit I'm in agreement even if begrudgingly:kk:

 

[SixPathsMike101]

Ms sasuke is nowhere near KM mode
Sasuke wank is strong af on here

They fap so hard

 

[SeveN797]

Im amazed how this thread reached 10 pages, since ms vs sm threads are common here and yet people still have strength to argue over same thing over and over again. I already discussed it in other thread, so im not going to write same things again. Everyone with common sense knows that MS would rape, Naruto has nothing to deal with Susanoo, end of story.

Even Studio Pierrot seems to agree that MS Sasuke would rape seeing how they animated this fight

Spoiler

[video=youtube;woONmmed8p8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woONmmed8p8[/video]

Yes it was filler, but still it should give everyone a good example of how this fight would look like if it happened in canon. You know even if it was filler, still they can't make and air an episode which wouldn't make any sense, so you've got to wonder, why didn't they make any of SM Naruto's attack break susanoo for example? Maybe cuz it's not possible and even SP knows that. They did a good job of portraying how this fight would look like, and basically through this episode they told us their opinion of this matchup.

 

[Jiren]

Im amazed how this thread reached 10 pages, since ms vs sm threads are common here and yet people still have strength to argue over same thing over and over again. I already discussed it in other thread, so im not going to write same things again. Everyone with common sense knows that MS would rape, Naruto has nothing to deal with Susanoo, end of story.

Even Studio Pierrot seems to agree that MS Sasuke would rape seeing how they animated this fight

Spoiler

[video=youtube;woONmmed8p8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woONmmed8p8[/video]

Yes it was filler, but still it should give everyone a good example of how this fight would look like if it happened in canon. You know even if it was filler, still they can't make and air an episode which wouldn't make any sense, so you've got to wonder, why didn't they make any of SM Naruto's attack break susanoo for example? Maybe cuz it's not possible and even SP knows that. They did a good job of portraying how this fight would look like, and basically through this episode they told us their opinion of this matchup.

Might as well be canon

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

If what I'm saying is speculation then this entire thread is speculation. That's exactly how arguments are done here. Anyway, no. Your argument ignores parts of Sasuke's abilities thus it's not valid. You list abilities without actually thinking about how a scenario would play out if said abilities were used.

Well ofc they're and the reason I brought that up is because your last post did exactly what you're accusing me of now. That is ignoring the 5 paths of Pein's abilities. As far as listing abilities without thinking about the scenarios go, you completely ignored the 5 Peins as if they don't even exist.

-Preta can absorb Susanoo Arrow, but the other 5 can't. Preta can't guard all 5 at once nor is he fast enough to intercept an arrow Kakashi was forced to use Kamui on. Without Deva they can't block the arrow thus picking them off will not be hard.

Well Nagato positioned the Peins during his fight with Naruto in a manner that Preta would be able to stop most if not all of its attacks. Why would he do anything different against Sasuke? Makes no sense at all. As far as reflexes go there's no proof that he won't be able to react to the arrow as there is no direct comparison between Pein and Kakashi's reflexes so I won't be so sure. However his reaction times are quite good has none of the ninja's were able to land a direct hit on him unless they were all surprise attacks.

-Animal Path's summons die when Animal Path vanishes just like any other summoner and it's summon. No need to kill the summons individually and even if he needed to, Susanoo and Enton mow them down in seconds. So no, there is no reason for Sasuke to try and spam Amaterasu against every summon. That's ridiculous.

With Preta defending animal Path won't die so easily, Sasuke gets overwhelmed by numbers and his Susanoo can't attack all at once and anyway even having to use Susanoo was taxing for MS Sasuke.

That doesn't make sense. Strength is what determines rankings. Tactics matter in a fight, not in a general ranking. That's why KCM Naruto is stronger than SM Naruto, yet SM Naruto beat the Raikage while KCM Naruto didn't. SM Naruto beating Raikage has nothing to do with strength, just tactics. This also doesn't really matter because Sasuke struggled against the Raikage when he had his weakest version of Susanoo.

Well even among opponents with equal strength, the victor is decided by the one who used superior tactics. That was my point.

So drop this argument unless you are going to tell me that KCM is inferior to SM.

Already made my point above.

Yeah, no. Everything I said is true. Calling it speculation without addressing it doesn't do you any favors. Sasuke w/ Ribcage struggled against the 4th and would've ended the fight in a tie. Sasuke w/ v4>>>>>Sasuke w/ v1. Why am I even explaining this to you? This should be common sense but of course I don't expect you people to use it.

Everything you said is just your opinion just as this is mine. I don't think using Susanoo is a good choice against the Raikages who are known for their speed and reflexes unless its for last minute defense. If Sasuke uses V4 Susanoo and susanoo arrow, I am almost certain that the Raikage would dodge it. Thus Sasuke would be doing nothing but wasting unneccessary chakra and taxing his eyes on Susanoo. V4 Susanoo would've prolonged the figth with the same results and nothing more.
Naruto on the other hand beat the 3rd Raikage only using a clone lol. He could use the same tactics and use an SM Shadow clone to exert pressure on Sasuke but that entirely depends on the situation again.

V4 w/o legs>V3 w/o legs. I don't care if Sasuke had EMS or not because that fact doesn't change. EMS made him more powerful because his Susanoo has a lower body, he has freer control over Enton and his techniques don't take a toll on him. That and each version of his Susanoo got stronger than what it was before. That doesn't mean V3 is automatically>a Susanoo a level above because of it. That is unless you are willing to prove it, but you can't so leave it alone.

Well as you said it gave him better control over his enton which is what he used in his combination attack. MS Sasuke doesn't have any such feat with enton.

-Base Naruto didn't react to Amaterasu physically.
-Being able to dodge Enton is irrelevant. It's purpose is to fuel Kirin and fodderize FRS. Susanoo Arrow is what Naruto can't dodge, that is unless you have the speed feats, along w/ Kirin and he gets raped in close combat by said Susanoo.

Never said he did, all I said that he was able to react to it. The point being if base could react to amaterasu then SM should be able to dodge it with its far supeiror perception. Kirin could be avoided simply by confusing Sasuke using shadow clones and which is the real one, then there is its AoE which even if Naruto is unable to escape, as long as it doesn't hit him directly SM Naruto should be fine with some injuries. Not to mention Kirin would take lot of chakra to prepare and if that fails, its FRS gg.

The only semi valid argument you have is stamina, and if he lasted long enough to defeat Danzo's 10 minute+ Izanagi then he'll last long enough to kill Naruto when the latter's techniques are literally useless. Taijutsu is irrelevant because Sasuke is not going to fight him in Taijutsu. What's even funnier is that you've listed no win method for Naruto. :lol The closest thing I'm seeing is "Naruto prolongs the fight by spamming his fodder clones". Come on now.

Well Danzo relied on his Izanagi and fought carelessly. Naruto doesn't have that luxury and will have to fight for his life. And if Sasuke isn't going to fight Naruto directly in taijutsu what makes you think Naruto would clash with his enton and Susanoo head on
And I've already listed how Naruto is going to beat him and that's by pushing Sasuke to use his MS abilities and tiring him out and then go for the kill. Naruto can easily outlast him in both stamina and chakra and that's his major advantage against Sasuke's taxing MS abilities. Anyway one of his fodder clone took down the 3rd Raikage while Sasuke himself struggled and was on the verge of loosing wihtout Gaara's intervention. You may deny all you like but facts are facts my man.

:lol Don't quote me looking for an argument if all you can do is call everything you have no counter for speculation. MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto.

I am not at all looking for an argument but if you think so then you're always free to simply ignore my posts. Its not like I am forcing you to reply.

-Enton rapes Rasen Shuriken.
-Enton projectiles deals w/ clone spam.
-Susanoo Arrow kills Naruto.
-Kirin kills Naruto.
-If Naruto tries to fight Sasuke up close Susanoo rapes him, or Sasuke gets up close himself and rapes him.
-Susanoo also rapes clone spam.

All they do is tire Sasuke away while Naruto goes for an easy kill afterwards...:lol:

 

[SeveN797]

Might as well be canon

yeah, just ignore last minutes of the fight, where they made Naruto pull off BSM, it was too much but the MS vs SM part was alright.

 

[Jiren]

yeah, just ignore last minutes of the fight, where they made Naruto pull off BSM, it was too much but the MS vs SM part was alright.

Agreed BSM is obviously above MS Sasuke until he unlocks EMS.

 

[Liquid Snake]

So now you're saying in Sasuke's scenario Naruto would've won ? Getfo, the entire summit had intel on him and ganged up, yet he was still about to come out on top. SM Naruto didn't have anything in his arsenal to beat an semi army that would've known everything about his fighting style

Sm naruto would have won one on one. For the raikage he simply does what he did to the third one. He stomps gaara . mizukage gets stomped naruto easily breaks out that room and forces he to release the acid jutsu or throws a rasenshuriken at her theres no room in there to dodge. Oohnoki is really the only one that could kill naruto but again narutos sensory and heightened reflexes keep him out of danger and one little attack oohnokis back is ****ed . he can do smoke bombs and come from the air like he did pain. Danzo is fodder naruto beats him in base form especially if he has a zetsu to replenish his chakra and karin to chew on as well plus he can have clones to collect NE. Now how does sasuke beat pain. Let me guess susanoo right ?? Lmao

 

[Liquid Snake]

Well ofc they're and the reason I brought that up is because your last post did exactly what you're accusing me of now. That is ignoring the 5 paths of Pein's abilities. As far as listing abilities without thinking about the scenarios go, you completely ignored the 5 Peins as if they don't even exist.



Well Nagato positioned the Peins during his fight with Naruto in a manner that Preta would be able to stop most if not all of its attacks. Why would he do anything different against Sasuke? Makes no sense at all. As far as reflexes go there's no proof that he won't be able to react to the arrow as there is no direct comparison between Pein and Kakashi's reflexes so I won't be so sure. However his reaction times are quite good has none of the ninja's were able to land a direct hit on him unless they were all surprise attacks.



With Preta defending animal Path won't die so easily, Sasuke gets overwhelmed by numbers and his Susanoo can't attack all at once and anyway even having to use Susanoo was taxing for MS Sasuke.



Well even among opponents with equal strength, the victor is decided by the one who used superior tactics. That was my point.



Already made my point above.



Everything you said is just your opinion just as this is mine. I don't think using Susanoo is a good choice against the Raikages who are known for their speed and reflexes unless its for last minute defense. If Sasuke uses V4 Susanoo and susanoo arrow, I am almost certain that the Raikage would dodge it. Thus Sasuke would be doing nothing but wasting unneccessary chakra and taxing his eyes on Susanoo. V4 Susanoo would've prolonged the figth with the same results and nothing more.
Naruto on the other hand beat the 3rd Raikage only using a clone lol. He could use the same tactics and use an SM Shadow clone to exert pressure on Sasuke but that entirely depends on the situation again.



Well as you said it gave him better control over his enton which is what he used in his combination attack. MS Sasuke doesn't have any such feat with enton.



Never said he did, all I said that he was able to react to it. The point being if base could react to amaterasu then SM should be able to dodge it with its far supeiror perception. Kirin could be avoided simply by confusing Sasuke using shadow clones and which is the real one, then there is its AoE which even if Naruto is unable to escape, as long as it doesn't hit him directly SM Naruto should be fine with some injuries. Not to mention Kirin would take lot of chakra to prepare and if that fails, its FRS gg.



Well Danzo relied on his Izanagi and fought carelessly. Naruto doesn't have that luxury and will have to fight for his life. And if Sasuke isn't going to fight Naruto directly in taijutsu what makes you think Naruto would clash with his enton and Susanoo head on
And I've already listed how Naruto is going to beat him and that's by pushing Sasuke to use his MS abilities and tiring him out and then go for the kill. Naruto can easily outlast him in both stamina and chakra and that's his major advantage against Sasuke's taxing MS abilities. Anyway one of his fodder clone took down the 3rd Raikage while Sasuke himself struggled and was on the verge of loosing wihtout Gaara's intervention. You may deny all you like but facts are facts my man.



I am not at all looking for an argument but if you think so then you're always free to simply ignore my posts. Its not like I am forcing you to reply.



All they do is tire Sasuke away while Naruto goes for an easy kill afterwards...:lol:

Listen the dude ur talking to is as smart as a vegetable its pointless explaining to him lol. Sasuke fapboys deny rasenshuriken stops kirin. Wind trumps lightning. A oodama rasengan stops any enton fireball. Amaretsu is dodged by reflexes. Susanoo broken by a punch. Up close battles naruto wins with frog kumite. After sasuke uses amaretsu susanoo and kirin he is out of chakra. There will be no karin or obito or juugo to help heal him in the middle of fights or zetsu as well lol. Naruto has clones on standby

 

[Uchihauzamakibarrage]

And for people using Naruto's encounters to prove he's superior should stop using crap logic.

Vs. Pain. SM Naruto had intel, help from the Toad Sages and only managed to kill 5 bodies before Deva spanked him. MS Sasuke at full power would've slaughtered the other 5 paths long before Deva regained his strength. Sasuke's techniques are more lethal and too fast for Pain to avoid (Kakashi couldn't dodge Susanoo Arrow and he's easily faster than any body of Pain besides Deva) and only Preta can absorb Ninjutsu.

Vs. 3rd Raikage. I see people (probably mostly trolls) saying that since 3rd>4th and Naruto beat the 3rd while Sasuke would've likely tied or barely defeated the 4th that SM Naruto>MS Sasuke, but Naruto didn't win because he was stronger, he won because he used Raikage's strength against him. Entire point of that fight. KCM Naruto was fighting him with all he had and wasn't doing anything to him at all and was going to be slaughtered had he not gotten intel about Nukite and his scar.

-Sasuke only had a Ribcage Susanoo, the first stage. Full Power MS Sasuke has a fully evolved Susanoo.
-Using this shit logic means that you are arguing SM Naruto>KCM Naruto because KCM Naruto was losing. :lol
-Put MS Sasuke in that same scenario and give him the same intel and the Raikage gets defeated.



That's a blatant display of him matching his power, so yes, they are keeping up with each other in that scan. V3 Susanoo is all Sasuke needs to match, or rather, counter Naruto's strongest attack available to him in KCM. This is also why MS Sasuke slaughters SM Naruto, because his strongest attacks are literally useless due to Enton.

MS Sasuke destroys SM Naruto. That's not fanfic. That's why this thread has reached 9 pages yet not one person in here has given any valid explanation for how Naruto wins or how they are equal.

MS Sasuke vs. Danzo>= SM Naruto.
KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke w/ full power>>SM Naruto.

Completely agree. Some of the arguments from Naruto fapboys, my goodness I haven't read so much fanfic in my life in some of those post. These are undeniable facts though. It's hard to make a point when some of the people you are talking to have a mental brick wall.

 

[Liquid Snake]

Completely agree. Some of the arguments from Naruto fapboys, my goodness I haven't read so much fanfic in my life in some of those post. These are undeniable facts though. It's hard to make a point when some of the people you are talking to have a mental brick wall.

But u believe sasuke beats pain. Lmao hilarious not even susanoo works on pain his arrow gets absorbed sasuke. Plus susanoo itself can be absorbed its chakra. Sasuke cant beat clones . pain can revive his bodies that sasuke manages to kill which will probably be only the robot one sasuke cant get past their visual link. Kirin wont work because theres no clouds to manipulate. So its u fapboys who dont use logic. Sasuke has no chance against pain or naruto

 

[Uchihauzamakibarrage]

But u believe sasuke beats pain. Lmao hilarious not even susanoo works on pain his arrow gets absorbed sasuke. Plus susanoo itself can be absorbed its chakra. Sasuke cant beat clones . pain can revive his bodies that sasuke manages to kill which will probably be only the robot one sasuke cant get past their visual link. Kirin wont work because theres no clouds to manipulate. So its u fapboys who dont use logic. Sasuke has no chance against pain or naruto

You salty bro? Last time I checked KG had more logic than you ever did, and lets exclude him for a second. Half of what your two previous post ago stated was absolutely retarded and is fanfic. Sasuke beats Naruto, this really isn't hard to comprehend.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lmao that little irate cancerous piece of inbred filth Liquid Snake should do us all a favor and stop posting in this thread altogether.

Well Nagato positioned the Peins during his fight with Naruto in a manner that Preta would be able to stop most if not all of its attacks. Why would he do anything different against Sasuke? Makes no sense at all. As far as reflexes go there's no proof that he won't be able to react to the arrow as there is no direct comparison between Pein and Kakashi's reflexes so I won't be so sure. However his reaction times are quite good has none of the ninja's were able to land a direct hit on him unless they were all surprise attacks

No. Not sure what Manga you are reading but I already took this into account.

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Preta is on the left. That leaves every other Path open to an attack except for Deva and Naraka in the back, but considering Sasuke's Susanoo's height he can even directly attack the ones not in the front line. So unless you are willing to get me speed feats that put Preta Path far above Kakashi in terms of speed he doesn't intercept this arrow.

With Preta defending animal Path won't die so easily, Sasuke gets overwhelmed by numbers and his Susanoo can't attack all at once and anyway even having to use Susanoo was taxing for MS Sasuke.

This was addressed, you didn't refute what I said. You just repeated yourself. Preta can't save Animal Path, destroying the animal summons takes less than 10 seconds as any variant of Enton ends it due to the fact that they cannot put it out. Sasuke lasted an entire fight with Danzo and Itachi used Susanoo for a few minutes before he died despite his illness so the nonsense stamina excuse you are using for Animal Path "overwhelming" Sasuke isn't working.

Well even among opponents with equal strength, the victor is decided by the one who used superior tactics. That was my point.

Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with strength, which is what this thread is about. That is my point.

Everything you said is just your opinion just as this is mine. I don't think using Susanoo is a good choice against the Raikages who are known for their speed and reflexes unless its for last minute defense. If Sasuke uses V4 Susanoo and susanoo arrow, I am almost certain that the Raikage would dodge it. Thus Sasuke would be doing nothing but wasting unneccessary chakra and taxing his eyes on Susanoo. V4 Susanoo would've prolonged the figth with the same results and nothing more.

That's not the point. The point is what occurred in canon was V1, not V4. Thus mentioning it as some sort of evidence is irrelevant. Whether or not you think V4 would make a difference is another question, though common sense and actual fights in the Manga tell you it would.

Naruto on the other hand beat the 3rd Raikage only using a clone lol. He could use the same tactics and use an SM Shadow clone to exert pressure on Sasuke but that entirely depends on the situation again.

The tactics used against Raikage are useless here. Naruto redirected Raikage's own attack into him. He can't do that with Sasuke nor would it help him in any situation.

Well as you said it gave him better control over his enton which is what he used in his combination attack. MS Sasuke doesn't have any such feat with enton.

The Susanoo he used is still inferior. The same orb Sasuke used in the War is present on his strongest Susanoo w/ MS.

Never said he did, all I said that he was able to react to it. The point being if base could react to amaterasu then SM should be able to dodge it with its far supeiror perception. Kirin could be avoided simply by confusing Sasuke using shadow clones and which is the real one, then there is its AoE which even if Naruto is unable to escape, as long as it doesn't hit him directly SM Naruto should be fine with some injuries. Not to mention Kirin would take lot of chakra to prepare and if that fails, its FRS gg.

Yes. Mentally. Not physically. Thus you have no evidence that SM Naruto can physically dodge it. When SM Naruto has V2 Ay level speed then I'll agree he can dodge it. Kirin destroyed an entire Mountain. It's range is enough to wipe the entire battlefield of Naruto and his clones so that doesn't matter. The bold of course is something you've made up with literally no evidence to support it. Kirin obliterated Susanoo. Naruto is nowhere near as durable as even the weakest version so we can forget about him surviving Kirin in any capacity regardless of an indirect hit.

Also no, Kirin does not take a lot of chakra to prepare. Enton takes less chakra to use than Amaterasu, far less as Sasuke was spamming it against Gaara. That and Great Dragon Flame = Kirin. Why are you throwing claims out here without supporting them with some kind of Manga occurrence?

Well Danzo relied on his Izanagi and fought carelessly. Naruto doesn't have that luxury and will have to fight for his life. And if Sasuke isn't going to fight Naruto directly in taijutsu what makes you think Naruto would clash with his enton and Susanoo head on

No, he didn't fight carelessly. He was simply overpowered and was forced to fall back on said Izanagi. I never said Naruto would clash with Enton and Susanoo head on either. :lol Lying won't get you anywhere. I said that Enton mows down his fodder clones or Susanoo obliterates them and Naruto once Sasuke FORCES CLOSE COMBAT. Gonna make sure you see and read that clearly so you don't go saying I said something I didn't.

And I've already listed how Naruto is going to beat him and that's by pushing Sasuke to use his MS abilities and tiring him out and then go for the kill. Naruto can easily outlast him in both stamina and chakra and that's his major advantage against Sasuke's taxing MS abilities. Anyway one of his fodder clone took down the 3rd Raikage while Sasuke himself struggled and was on the verge of loosing wihtout Gaara's intervention. You may deny all you like but facts are facts my man.

Then your strategy sucks. You've failed to show how Naruto survives long enough to do so. When met with game ending arguments you make shit like "Naruto survives an indirect hit of Kirin", "Naruto dodges Amaterasu", "Naruto spams clones causing Sasuke to tire out trying to kill them all" up.

Clone spam is irrelevant. Sasuke has multiple techniques that'd wipe any clone army out in a matter of seconds so how exactly are they lasting long enough to tire him out completely?

3rd Raikage vs. 4th Raikage is irrelevant. Don't fall back on refuted arguments when you have nothing left to say. The weakest version of Sasuke was about to either kill or tie w/ Ay while Naruto needed to use the 3rd Raikage's own strength against him because he was too weak to defeat him using his own strength.

You guys are silly as hell. Acting like you'll die if you just admit a previous version of Naruto is inferior to a previous version of Sasuke. You're supposed to be convincing me that SM Naruto>MS Sasuke but you are actually convincing me that Sasuke slaughters him since all you can say is "Naruto wins because clone spam galore".

 

[KidGamer65]

You salty bro? Last time I checked KG had more logic than you ever did, and lets exclude him for a second. Half of what your two previous post ago stated was absolutely retarded and is fanfic. Sasuke beats Naruto, this really isn't hard to comprehend.

Lmao don't even waste your time talking to that clown. You'll lose brain cells arguing with someone who thinks SM Naruto dodges Amaterasu and breaks Susanoo with a punch.

 

[Jay SixPaths13]

Yeah Honestly i dont even know why this is even an debate. MS Sasuke is well above SM Naruto.