3t Madara vs Edo Hiruzen

[BLAZE]

But there's a guy here that says it's water particles that create the illusion. Meaning it's a natural phenomenon, not Genjutsu. Which is 100% bullshit.

eh i think he saying water particle is used as a medium of the illusion which is true

Mist Genjutsu: Creates mirages in the real world by reflecting light off of the water particles.

you cannot break out of it via genjutsu kai since your chakra isn't affected

 

[KidGamer65]

But there's a guy here that says it's water particles that create the illusion. Meaning it's a natural phenomenon, not Genjutsu. Which is 100% bullshit.

Stop being an idiot for at least one second and start using your brain. "It's a natural phenomenon" Mu's jutsu has a similar entry, does that mean it's a natural phenomenon? No. They are based on natural phenomenon but act differently because they just chakra. The databook states how the mirages are created, and it's not in a way that'd allow Genjutsu Kai to be used in order to break free. So you can stop bitching about the facts not being in your favor now. It's pathetic.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lmao now this guy is arguing against the very same DB article he just posted. What a moron. :lol

 

[Unorthodox]

Hiruzen almost stomps him.

-5 elements>>Madara's Katon. Or rather multiple giant Suiton>>>Madara's Katon.

-Hiruzen and Enma>>Madara w/o Gunbai in CQC.

-Shadow Fuhma Shuriken Clone spam is very dangerous for Madara here as well since he has no shield or Gunbai, and his Ninjutsu can easily be overpowered by Hiruzen's own if he tries to use it as a shield.

So yeah, Hiruzen low-mid diff.

You silly.

Madara's Katon >>> all those elements and dwarfs them Hiruzen uses multiple suitons means nothing when Madara's has clones and can use his clones to aid with Jutsu to thus winning the long range battle.

Cqc Hiruzen gets mopped.

Madara also can absorb ninjutsu.

Madara med diff

 

[Amenotejikara]

:lol Holy....you've got to be trolling.

1. It does. Chakra is spent to make mist which makes people see mirages. (affecting perception and senses)
2. That doesn't mean chakra is being controlled in the BRAIN OF THE GODDAMN VICTIM.
3. That is how SHARINGAN GENJUTSU operates.

Mist Genjutsu: Creates mirages in the real world by reflecting light off of the water particles.
Regular Genjutsu: Creates images INSIDE THE MIND of the target by "controlling" the chakra in the brain.

Read this over and over and over again until it clicks. This ain't rocket science.

I've been thinking about that for months, jiraiya talked about gen counter by disrupting his chakra flow in the head but his lack of expertise in gen was actually only talking about non visual genjutsu circumstances which is what screwed naruto when he faced itachi's genjutsu the first time. But I'm not sure, so its a question.

 

[KidGamer65]

I've been thinking about that for months, jiraiya talked about gen counter by disrupting his chakra flow in the head but his lack of expertise in gen was actually only talking about non visual genjutsu circumstances which is what screwed naruto when he faced itachi's genjutsu the first time. But I'm not sure, so its a question.

That applies to all forms of Genjutsu that cause the target to see things by controlling chakra in the head. Sharingan Genjutsu and stuff like what Kabuto used and Itachi's finger Genjutsu all do that.

You silly.

Madara's Katon >>> all those elements and dwarfs them Hiruzen uses multiple suitons means nothing when Madara's has clones and can use his clones to aid with Jutsu to thus winning the long range battle.

Cqc Hiruzen gets mopped.

Madara also can absorb ninjutsu.

Madara med diff

-Madara's Katon is not>>All those elements nor does it dwarf them altogether. Throw in the elemental advantage and no Katon Madara forms will touch Hiruzen.

-Hiruzen doesn't get beaten in CQC. Madara w/ Kunai and Shuriken isn't beating Hiruzen in CQC with Enma. Not a chance.

-Madara cannot absorb Ninjutsu obviously. :lol

 

[EliteKakashi]

The uchiha wank on this forum is unrivaled.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

That applies to all forms of Genjutsu that cause the target to see things by controlling chakra in the head. Sharingan Genjutsu and stuff like what Kabuto used and Itachi's finger Genjutsu all do that.



-Madara's Katon is not>>All those elements nor does it dwarf them altogether. Throw in the elemental advantage and no Katon Madara forms will touch Hiruzen.

-Hiruzen doesn't get beaten in CQC. Madara w/ Kunai and Shuriken isn't beating Hiruzen in CQC with Enma. Not a chance.

-Madara cannot absorb Ninjutsu obviously. :lol

with the absorbing ninjutsu part, Unorthodox is proabably referring to when Blind Madara absorbed amaterasu from EMS Sasuke.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[KidGamer65]

with the absorbing ninjutsu part, Unorthodox is proabably referring to when Blind Madara absorbed amaterasu from EMS Sasuke.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I know he is. Too bad for him that's not living Sharingan Madara.

 

[AlphaMaleLion]

That applies to all forms of Genjutsu that cause the target to see things by controlling chakra in the head. Sharingan Genjutsu and stuff like what Kabuto used and Itachi's finger Genjutsu all do that.



-Madara's Katon is not>>All those elements nor does it dwarf them altogether. Throw in the elemental advantage and no Katon Madara forms will touch Hiruzen.

-Hiruzen doesn't get beaten in CQC. Madara w/ Kunai and Shuriken isn't beating Hiruzen in CQC with Enma. Not a chance.

-Madara cannot absorb Ninjutsu obviously. :lol

What did you smoke KidG? Dont make me post the scans where Madaras katon is the size as the Jyuubi, and all Hiruzen elements are the size of one Shinsuusenjuu arm AKA the statue of Spiral Zetsu. Madaras Katon destroys Hiruzen. Part 1 high tier is nothing anymore.

 

[KidGamer65]

What did you smoke KidG? Dont make me post the scans where Madaras katon is the size as the Jyuubi, and all Hiruzen elements are the size of one Shinsuusenjuu arm AKA the statue of Spiral Zetsu. Madaras Katon destroys Hiruzen. Part 1 high tier is nothing anymore.

What are you talking about? :lol Those elements are far longer than Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju's arm.

You must be registered for see links

Hiruzen's elements are the same as SZ's elements and SZ's were going to strike the alliance so obviously they aren't as long or large as the halfway point shown on each. The distance between Hiruzen and SZ is how long they are at least. Throw in the fact that Suiton>Katon and you come to the obvious conclusion that any Katon Madara makes is easily put out.

 

[TheEvilOne]

What makes you think those elemental attacks are powerful? Not to mention the fact that you are clearly overrating their size as well.
If he can create a larger Katon than Hiruzen's suiton, he can evaporate it, doesn't matter if Suiton beats Katon.

 

[LightningNinja]

What are you talking about? :lol Those elements are far longer than Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju's arm.

You must be registered for see links

Hiruzen's elements are the same as SZ's elements and SZ's were going to strike the alliance so obviously they aren't as long or large as the halfway point shown on each. The distance between Hiruzen and SZ is how long they are at least. Throw in the fact that Suiton>Katon and you come to the obvious conclusion that any Katon Madara makes is easily put out.

If Madara also create 4 kage bunshin, Is it possible for each one of them to also use juubi size Katon at the sime time?

 

[Byakuren]

If Madara also create 4 kage bunshin, Is it possible for each one of them to also use juubi size Katon at the sime time?

Of course, with Madara's chakra levels that wouldn't be a complicated feat.

 

[KidGamer65]

If Madara also create 4 kage bunshin, Is it possible for each one of them to also use juubi size Katon at the sime time?

Sure. Doesn't really accomplish much in the long run but there's no reason why he can't do it.

What makes you think those elemental attacks are powerful? Not to mention the fact that you are clearly overrating their size as well.
If he can create a larger Katon than Hiruzen's suiton, he can evaporate it, doesn't matter if Suiton beats Katon.

No, I'm not overrating their size. I just posted exactly what their size is. These are facts. Period. Don't post your opinion to contest actual supported claims. Bold is false. Madara's Katon has to be far larger than Hiruzen's Suiton to make up for the elemental advantage. Suiton doesn't need to be on par with Katon anyway to block it so this is another moot point.

Either that or Doton easily and effortlessly blocks it. So we can stop wanking Madara's Katon now. It doesn't give him a chance of winning this fight. Nothing does.

 

[Eng nawashi]

Madara mid diff at most .jiubi sized Katon >>multiple suiton_s with each being around biju size at most .

 

[UnknownJin]

He's not going to get caught in sharingan genjutsu period is my point.

Also trying to compare a genjutsu used by Hashirama to basic 3t Sharingan genjutsu seems awfully silly.

all i can say 'Bringer of darkness' is definitely not a fodder genjutsu.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Nattana]

Stop being an idiot for at least one second and start using your brain. "It's a natural phenomenon" Mu's jutsu has a similar entry, does that mean it's a natural phenomenon? No. They are based on natural phenomenon but act differently because they just chakra. The databook states how the mirages are created, and it's not in a way that'd allow Genjutsu Kai to be used in order to break free. So you can stop bitching about the facts not being in your favor now. It's pathetic.

I thought about it and I actually may agree with the fact that chakra is used for other things rather than directly creating visions. But it doesn't change the fact that ALL my other points regarding Hiruzen remain valid, while Clam Genjutsu was only brought up as an example of continuous Genjutsu, so whether the visions are created by chakra or not doesn't change anything in terms of initial discussion.

 

[KidGamer65]

I thought about it and I actually may agree with the fact that chakra is used for other things rather than directly creating visions. But it doesn't change the fact that ALL my other points regarding Hiruzen remain valid, while Clam Genjutsu was only brought up as an example of continuous Genjutsu, so whether the visions are created by chakra or not doesn't change anything in terms of initial discussion.

You must be registered for see images

Other points? The only point you presented in this thread was Genjutsu. You have no other valid points as the only point you were arguing didn't make any sense despite all that nonsense you ended up typing. "Wah wah you are denying fact for your self-wank", only to come back here and agree that you made no sense and that what the Manga shows is actually correct.

 

[Nattana]

You must be registered for see images

Other points? The only point you presented in this thread was Genjutsu. You have no other valid points as the only point you were arguing didn't make any sense despite all that nonsense you ended up typing. "Wah wah you are denying fact for your self-wank", only to come back here and agree that you made no sense and that what the Manga shows is actually correct.

Go back to mentioning jutsu rank when you realize your arguments are trash. That's what you're good at.