The only difference in her fighting style in base as opposed to while using Byakogou is that she can afford to take hits. No reason to believe she can no longer use CES when in base and no reason to believe she won't use CES just because she's not using Byakogou. Where's the logic in that?
Didn't assert she couldn't. I asserted that she doesn't generally. And I accept that the finger was CES. Clearly. However, given her usage of regular strength in the Kabuto fight. Her punch to the hokage tower in the Pein arc, her kick to Madara after Mabui's technique, those all seem to be examples of natural strength in my mind.
No, the databook says this, "-One finger, and Naruto cannot close in on her. And she can handle Gamabunta's huge dosu** with absurd ease...?!
-The kind of might that opens craters into the ground in one blow!!"
There are three different things it is talking about. The Naruto scenario where she uses her finger, her carrying Gamabunta's huge sword and finally the ability to open craters into the ground in one blow. The largest crater Tsunade formed was with her heavenly kick of pain against Oro and Kabuto so it is obvious that she used CES in that scenario.
Hmm...
So Yin Seal Sakura having about as same damage as kid Tsunade makes sense but a rusty part 1 Tsunade being only slightly stronger than EP2 Sakura is absurd? Where is the logic in that? Much of this can be explained by power scaling. Part one Hiruzen's elemental attacks are nothing compared to EP2 Kakuzu even though he's clearly a better ninjutsu user as shown by hype and his WA feats.
Let's play this game about Tsunade being a kid, right? Whenever it is that she developed CES, if it was before her Yin Seal what would have stopped her from using her full potential? Being a kid of the uzumaki and senju clans she has plenty of chakra. Powerful chakra. How strong would those hits have been regardless of age. Age is irrelevant if bring CES into the equation. That's simply chakra control. You can do it at any age if you have the talent and the training. Like a fireball jutsu being out of a gennin's chakra range. Except apparently not, Sasuke. So then my argument wants you to pick one of two propositions.
Either he just based the statement off of a 3 year old Tsunade with natural strength, or 3 year old Tsunade used CES and therefore he directly compared their damage. Because Sakura's strength is all chakra, if Tsunade had the talent to use CES at that point then the damage should in theory be comparable. But I don't believe 3 year old Tsunade had CES. I do find that ridiculous. Which leaves me with the first proposition. Which then means, that he once again has no bearing to compare them both using CES, and there's no indication to believe he knows about it.
Now, I will grant that he very easily could be making predictions about Tsunade given the strength he knew of and her title as hokage. But none of that would include CES.
As far as the power scaling argument goes, Hiruzen was stated to be pathetic at that time. As opposed to his time during the War Arc. He was also an Edo Tensei meaning that he could use all of his chakra in his attacks. For all we know, given his intense chakra pressure from part 1 he used up all of his chakra when he used those 5 jutsus in conjunction. This is what I mean. You can very easily justify all of part 1 without powerscaling. Yes, it happened but Kishimoto decided to account for it rather than it being a flaw.
Tsunade's own body would be no where near as strong as someone like Kisame or SM Naruto when she's so young that she can't even use chakra. Yet their physical power is absolutely nothing compared to Sakura. That comparison was obviously symbolic and not an exact comparison.
What? Why would her body need to be as strong as Kisame's. Also survived light speed travel with minor injuries when others came out torn apart. Also took Yasaka Magatama point blank. Also incredible life force surviving bisection her durability or strong body feats eat Kisame's.
As far as her not being able to use chakra she also graduated the academy at 6 when Naruto was in the academy as a little kid, up until 12. Tsunade's super strength her natural strength is something like a kenkkei genkkei to the point that you just said she was probably the strongest person Hashirama could think of. Given there were probably shinobi as strong as kisame in those days, almost certainly. I'm bewildered by your statements.
She wasn't strong enough to do meaningful damage to V3 susanoo clones so yes it is completely out of character for Tsunade to lift the transformation.
Proof Tsunade didn't do damage to a V3 clone. Iirc she hit the clone in the back. And you couldn't see the back. But the clone didn't immediately get back up. That's pure conjecture and the onus is on you to prove your claim.
The whole scene meant Sakura would be able to contribute to the team instead of always being a burden. This was shown later on in the subsequent chapters where the trio summoned their summons and Sakura was instrumental in keeping the shinobi alliance alive. Didn't you say Sakura was getting compared to child Tsunade but now you're saying someone of Hokage power? You should just admit you aren't making any sense and are simply rambling
The whole scene meant Sakura was stronger and could contribute. Fine. That doesn't change the way that is interpreted. She was finishing her line of thought. Which is why it all seems to fit together. Why the author illustrated her looking back at Naruto and Sasuke because this moment was about the 3 of them. Hashirama hyped her, but what we are discussing is specifically what Hashirama meant. And you're arguing that Sakura was adding on to a statement that she couldn't have heard if she didn't hear giants walking up in front of her. When I argue that she was finishing her original thought. Reveling in her new found power.
You keep talking trying to divert to portrayal when punching a whole through someone will always remain her more impressive feat than breaking a horn. The horn feat could indeed be better. But because Tsunade blew a whole through him... you really can't say what she would have done to the horn. I suppose you could reference Susanoo, and see how Susanoo's durability feats stick up to Shikkotsuymaku. But then, I'm not sure Shikkotsuymaku has any comparable feats since no one else of notable strength punched kaguya. As everyone else was sleep. I assume the jutsu is rather durable belonging to a Juubi Jin, but how durable. We've only seen it break as opposed to standing resolute against an attack. Thus, rather than talk about portrayal
From a portrayal perspective, it's true Tsunade isn't the only person to hit through a person. But that puts her in the company of 2 other people. It has happened 2 other times. Gated Kyuubi Lee, kicked through Madara, created nowhere near the destruction as Tsunade. And 8 Gate Guy took a chunk out of Juubi Jin Madara. Obviously Tsunade is not as strong as the 8th gate. But we know for a fact that her strength is significantly greater than a gated Kyuubi cloak Lee.
Of course Sakura is a powerful ninja. Just not more powerful than the hokage.
Whether Sakura heard Hashirama or not is irrelevant to what the author is trying to portray. Basically what Sakura is trying to show us is that she can use her full power without having to make herself look younger. Her not having to make herself look younger is clearly not a trivial statement, it has a pretty big impact on her punch much like how when she couldn't use her full power, her punches were far weaker.
Sakura can not tag on to comment she isn't aware of. Thus she was continuing her line of thought.
But you know what, it doesn't matter all that much because if according to your their strength is similar while Tsunade uses 2 techniques then Tsunade is still stronger than her. Her using another technique doesn't negate her being stronger.
Then why didn't she kill Shin when he was incapacitated?
Everyone clearly thought Shin was down for the count after taking a direct hit from Sakura... she did collapse his organs.
Sakura is much stronger in pretty much every way after the Sasori fight so I'm not sure how her not being able to keep up with that fight is relevant when by the end of the fight, she adjusted to Sasori's attack patterns very quickly. Those susanoos were so weak that they couldn't kill Mei with a punch. How exactly is Sakura getting flattened by them? Sasuke's far superior V3 susanoo does less damage than EP2 Sakura when punching the ground so any susanoo clone that gets close is smacked away, period. Saying Madara's susanoos is irrelevant when he split his power 25 times. Then there is the fact Tsunade even collapsed while fighting them so it's not like she was winning that fight at all.
Ice...War Arc Sakura is no stronger in taijutsu. And as that is her only form of combat, that matters significantly. She actually didn't have time to train. There was Sasori, then the Orochimaru mission. Then Pein Arc. Then 4th great war.
And suggesting Sakura won't get crushed when she got smacked in the face by Omoi is my point. You can say she was not trying to attack Omoi, which is fine because she was trying to attack Omoi's teammate and comrade and he responded like a susanoo would've but less lethal. You could say she wasn't anticipating him to jump in but then that highlights foolishness. Why would a shinobi from another village allow you to attack their comrade? So the Omoi situation is a great comparison to draw from She doesn't have the chops.
So you think that Sakura is strong enough to fight 5/25 or 1/5 of Madara's strength. Is that what you're saying? The 1/25 is a cheap point because that's still stronger than most shinobi. Madara defeated child Oonoki and Muu without exerting any real power he considered Muu and Oonoki both kids. How strong is 1/25th of his power? At the Gokage summit at full power Sasuke could only use Torso susanoo. A v4 Susanoo is more powerful than most uchihas become. In fact, V3 is so strong that the only susanoo form above is perfect susanoo. I'm so puzzled by your argument. Like that feat wasn't impressive. Like Sakura has shown these amazing skills you're hyping her to have. What did she do in the fight with Kaguya that suggested she was fight 5 v3 Susanoos. What did she do in the fight with Madara that suggested she could fight 5 v3 Susanoos? Tsunade collapsed is your argument. She heals all of her wounds. She would have been A - OK in that exact moment. Because somehow, no susanoos were close enough to her to hit her. Maybe because she was neutralizing threats so she could take a breather. Regardless she had enough chakra to still power Mega Jinton and heal from Madara's final Katon. So, when her cells were unharmed there would be no more pain. Yes. But Tsunade did survive long enough to do her part in neutralizing the susanoos. Sakura would have died. The same way she almost got blitzed by Juubi clones. She'd get nailed by Susanoo ones.
I don't remember Chiyo praising Tsunade's evasion skills. That's exactly my point, Tsunade was busy training Sakura, how exactly would she have time to go through extensive training herself? A coach doesn't train as hard as the player. Hiruzen didn't extensively train Tsunade in the evasion arts, that was Tsunade's idea to begin with. Sure she'd train in evasion, but she has no master and learning something without a teacher is much harder than with a teacher which is very important because Sakura can use yin seal at a much younger age than Tsunade because she has a sensei to train her.
Ok, so you don't remember Chiyo praising Tsunade's evasion skills, what did she say about Sakura's?
@ The bold. She created S rank medical ninjutsu and fuuinjutsu. (compared to Sakura creating what jutsu) What does something being 'harder' mean. She couldn't be hokage and be out of shape. Because what if Madara comes back from the dead. or Orochimaru attacks, or the land of Stone and the Land of Fire go into war. Being in shape is a part of a hokage's job. That's obviously why all of part 1 went on to describe the hokage as the strongest person in the village. And you didn't answer the question. If Tsunade did not train, why the difference between the War and the Search for Tsunade arc. No one refers to the War Arc version of her as Rusty? But if she didn't train back up, wouldn't she still be rusty?
Tsunade only had a few weeks to regain all the chakra she had lost whereas Sakura had three years so of course she'd have more chakra than WA Tsunade. Tsunade being more skilled at medical ninjutsu doesn't mean she's more skilled in every other technique. The
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says Sakura had the same talent as Tsunade in chakra control and before long it blossomed. Yet you claim she's far inferior.
That's cool but the primary source disagrees. You cannot deny the refilling chakra is a part of medical ninjutsu. Something that must be done with care as the databook entry for mystical palm technique expressed. Sakura was clearly inferior by a huge margin. Tsunade's you did well pat. Meant Tsunade recognized her progress but was still the superior.
At the end of the day CES and Medical ninjutsu rely on the same skill set which is why they are comparable.
