Has Sakura surpassed Tsunade?

[startup98]

She probably did after the time skip. Not during the War.

 

[Joshutsu]

Yes, Sakura has an innate talent for genjutsu, due to her chakra control... however she has never demonstrated a powerful genjutsu.

Also disagree with assertion she matched everywhere else. Her chakra was never demonstrated to carry the potency that Tsunade's carries, nor does she have monstrous strength, or a body durable enough to survive Heavenly Transfer, or the lifeforce to survive bisection. I don't see how she could make up the difference after Tsunade's bloodline is taken into account. Focusing on genjutsu is the only option I'd see to surpass Tsunade as reasonably there are a few areas where she could hope to exceed Tsunade.

That's fair, a consult doesn't mean that you have less knowledge. But she could've consulted with Shizune. To choose your teacher is akin to me calling my kung fu master with a question about countering a technique. Even if I have an inkling, I'd call because he would know better than I would.

Also Tsunade has the body of a 90 year old at that point and is in her 70s would she actually be carrying on as the head doctor? I doubt it, though her work with Naruto's Mokuton arm is far more advanced than anything Sakura has done thus far.

Edit: in terms of whether or not Tsunade healed Shikamaru or not, I can't state for certain. Why would Tsunade's chakra be significantly more effective than Kyuubi chakra? I feel like there could be more to it than just giving chakra. Given how closely connected the chakra network is to the nervous system and vital organs that presumably caused some damage as well.

She is shown to dispel strong genjutsu which are feats Tsunade does not show. I'm not saying she doesn't but we don't know if she could. Allegedly even Naruto fell prey to this which hyped her genjutsu more.

Yes, chakra potency and such falls in line where i addressed Tsunade's lineage playing a factor. However, what techniques does Tsunade know that Sakura cannot perform. Her longevity might not be as much in the long run but she has the techniques. BPD is the only technique she doesn't have but she doesn't have lightning release and that technique is not a frequent one for Tsunade anyway.

Shizune is considered a subordinate in the medical field to Sakura. I wouldn't consult her.

That is also a fair point but Tsunade has no reason to doubt Sakura's ability to perform. The seal is proof of that.

Tsunade making those arms was impressive, but Sakura worked along with her for that so she should be good. Also, lets not forget alot of intel about hashirama cells came from Sakura herself in the war and probably had more input on it during that time. Tsunade was still the operating kage at the time and still Sakura's superior officially and honestly, experience as well plays a role in that.

I think people confuse the actual techniques with the experience Tsunade has over Sakura.

That whole shikamaru thing is unclear but I will say that chakra depletion is depicted in a way that looks like dehydration and when Tsunade touched him those looks faded. So idk

Edit: Let's not forget that Sakura is the only one who has her teacher so close to her during her growth and who was still around by the end of the series in a role that still had her to be somewhat naturally superior to Sakura.

There was not reason for Sakura to step up because Tsunade was around. So she made it but Tsunade was still alive and head of the medical department. Jiraya died and Orochimaru got dumped.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Tsunade's strength feats in part 1 being raw strength is based on nothing and contradicts the databook.

Databook 2

Konoha Thousand Leaves Collection #24

It would seem Tsunade's "outrageous strength" completely ignores the laws of nature!! The challenge to common sense that is her power is due in no small part to her artful chakra control and fine-tuning. To give things a name, by instantly collecting chakra into her fist and fingers, she obtains a power of destruction bodily strength alone cannot achieve.

Caption

-Here's to a painful and bitter end! Such is Tsunade-hime's insane, "Legendary", power!!

Picture comments

-One finger, and Naruto cannot close in on her. And she can handle Gamabunta's huge dosu** with absurd ease...?!

-The kind of might that opens craters into the ground in one blow!!

The Bold is clearly wrong. It's not based off of nothing it's based of the databook. Though this passage that you quoted did slip my mind but it changes nothing.

The databook entry in the OP clearly notes that Heaven Kick of Pain is a result of Tsunade's marvelous fighting form. Not nin taijutsu. That said, I overstepped when I said CES hadn't been used prior to Part 2. I'll grant that.

It is apparent though that the finger strike was the only demonstrable chakra usage (before Tsunade realeased her seal), brought on by the 4th hokage's jutsu (an A rank jutsu being supposedly used) though if we compare that damage to her punches against Kabuto which hit the ground. It is again apparent that CES was not being used. I can grab the scans but I do believe that you know precisely what I mean without them.

The reason why Hashirama said Sakura may be stronger than Tsunade rather than definitely stronger, on par or not as strong is because he did not know how strong Tsunade would become as an adult. This line of his simply hints that Sakura may have surpassed Tsunade in strength. If Tsunade as a kid had that sort of power, Hashirama would not be impressed with Sakura's punch at all. Though Sakura's statement that she doesn't need to use her seal to look younger implies (

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) that she's superior to war arc Tsunade in the strength department. I do agree that Tsunade in her prime, before abandoning the village, should be greater in strength due to superior chakra control and superior natural strength as per the databook stats coupled with Tsunade's senju heritage.

Sigh.
So this demonstration by Sakura evoked the memory of his 3-5 year old granddaughter and somehow that is supposed to mean there is a close present connection to their power? That would again imply that such a youngster was a monster, to be compared to Sakura. Given where Sakura was in Early Part 2, it was ridiculous to expect her strength to jump to where it did in the war arc. Much less if you asserted this while Sakura was a gennin. Not to mention ages 3-5. And as Tsunade's strength is in large part chakra yet she didn't graduate the academy to 6, that would imply that a 3-5 year old child, who didn't yet have the skills to leave the academy, had great enough chakra control to use CES, which would then pose the question of why Hashirama didn't assume with such skill in chakra she didn't go on to specialize ninjutsu (well she did in a way) or genjutsu.

Also, that panel doesn't mean Sakura is stronger. It means she now dedicates all of her chakra to a singular purpose now. Tsunade could do that at any point she so chose. And to surpass someone you do it in their prime. No one talks about surpassing old Hanzo or old Hiruzen. And young Tsunade didn't disguise her age. But if we do compare her War Arc performance, that punch that she delivered to Madara absolutely eats Sakura's punch to Shin. Granted Tsunade was using Byakugou but then we're not left with all that many direct comparisons.

Tsunade is superior when it comes to taijutsu as well as durability. On the other hand, Sakura is faster and better at evasion by virtue of being trained by Tsunade herself and due to superior speed feats. They are on par with each other, no one is tiers above like you fallaciously assumed Tsunade is.

Maybe Sakura is faster than War Arc Tsunade, but a prime Tsunade would probably be superior there. Given that with an effective age of like 70 she can still engage in CQC with 5 Susanoo without being killed. Which gets to my next point, War Arc Sakura would be smashed flat by 5 susanoo. She by no means has better evasion for that reason and to pretend that evasion and taijutsu are not intimately linked is erroneous. I mean War Arc Sakura isn't strong enough to beat any of that generations gokage.

She is shown to dispel strong genjutsu which are feats Tsunade does not show. I'm not saying she doesn't but we don't know if she could. Allegedly even Naruto fell prey to this which hyped her genjutsu more.

Yes, chakra potency and such falls in line where i addressed Tsunade's lineage playing a factor. However, what techniques does Tsunade know that Sakura cannot perform. Her longevity might not be as much in the long run but she has the techniques. BPD is the only technique she doesn't have but she doesn't have lightning release and that technique is not a frequent one for Tsunade anyway.

Shizune is considered a subordinate in the medical field to Sakura. I wouldn't consult her.

That is also a fair point but Tsunade has no reason to doubt Sakura's ability to perform. The seal is proof of that.

Tsunade making those arms was impressive, but Sakura worked along with her for that so she should be good. Also, lets not forget alot of intel about hashirama cells came from Sakura herself in the war and probably had more input on it during that time. Tsunade was still the operating kage at the time and still Sakura's superior officially and honestly, experience as well plays a role in that.

I think people confuse the actual techniques with the experience Tsunade has over Sakura.

That whole shikamaru thing is unclear but I will say that chakra depletion is depicted in a way that looks like dehydration and when Tsunade touched him those looks faded. So idk

Edit: Let's not forget that Sakura is the only one who has her teacher so close to her during her growth and who was still around by the end of the series in a role that still had her to be somewhat naturally superior to Sakura.

There was not reason for Sakura to step up because Tsunade was around. So she made it but Tsunade was still alive and head of the medical department. Jiraya died and Orochimaru got dumped.

Well Joshutu, what exactly makes Sakura a genjutsu type. Her precise Chakra control, which she refined under Tsunade's tutelage. Implying that the woman who created the pinnacle of chakra control probably has perfected the technique which calls for her to disrupt her chakra.

I get what your saying, but if you clerk for a judge, if you're a resident for a doctor, associate for a lawyer, etc. You would do a lot of the leg work for the person whom your assisting. You're getting all kinds of great knowledge and experience from it, but you understand that you aren't the foremost expert.

Yes, that is true. Well sometimes, for instance, Kakashi when he died from Chakra consumption he didn't wither away. And Tsunade doesn't really her true form just reveals itself.

Mystical Palm Technique (Shousen no Jutsu)

Ninjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Close range

User: Yakushi Kabuto

The restorative medical technique that heals the body on the inside and the outside with the power of chakra.

An awe-inspiring medical technique where one sends chakra from the hand into a wounded area, causing that spot to restore itself by rapidly increasing its recovering ability. Since the chakra needs to be controlled in order to match the extent of the ailment, few are those who can use it, even among ninja medics. In addition, overloading an opponent with chakra to disrupt the normal functioning of their internal circulatory system, having them fall into a comatose state is also a possibility.

Effective on external wounds, of course, but on internal ailments as well.

Regardless healing jutsu involves giving chakra to an extent. So my point about Tsunade's skillful usage still stands as Sakura later still had the chakra to power the kamui dimensions. She did fight with the aide of Naruto's chakra.

Edit: And do you think Tsunade would really want to run Konoha's hospital given hom much she dislikes paper work and would rather be drinking and hanging with Shizune. I'd imagine she'd want to turn over those responsibilities like she turned over her seat as hokage. She doesn't having to be responsible.

 

[Made in Heaven]

That's not really a sakura flaw but manga flaw. The same logic applied to kakashi had not he conveniently figured out mangekyou in adulthood to remain relevant. Let alone kamui that basically solved all plot problems.

If I was a Naruto character, yes, I would see Sakura's accomplishments as something amazing, since she is a nobody who accomplished a lot. But as a reader who knows she's supposed to be the heroine, she isn't great, and I'm not blaming her for that.

I'm certain Sakura has surpassed Tsunade in medical ninjutsu at the least, since this was stated in her bio in The Last Movie, and I'm not going to deny facts. I'm talking about taijutsu and combat skills, which I still think Tsunade is better in.

 

[BLAZE]

first go and learn about Tsunade or Sakura ces yourself

Databook 2

Konoha Thousand Leaves Collection #24

It would seem Tsunade's "outrageous strength" completely ignores the laws of nature!! The challenge to common sense that is her power is due in no small part to her artful chakra control and fine-tuning. To give things a name, by instantly collecting chakra into her fist and fingers, she obtains a power of destruction bodily strength alone cannot achieve.

Caption

-Here's to a painful and bitter end! Such is Tsunade-hime's insane, "Legendary", power!!

Picture comments

-One finger, and Naruto cannot close in on her. And she can handle Gamabunta's huge dosu** with absurd ease...?!

-The kind of might that opens craters into the ground in one blow!!

as Ice already stated they are on par with each other, no one is tiers above like you are stating

stupidly claiming 3 or 5 y.o tsunade has sakura's level strength is hilarious when it doesn't take rocket science to know hashirama compared sakura to hypothetical adult tsunade.According to your logic

5y.o tsunade>sakura>Kage tsunade in strength :lol

 

[Tazzilla88]

first go and learn about Tsunade or Sakura ces yourself




as Ice already stated they are on par with each other, no one is tiers above like you are stating

Instead of a 2 second response, saying something I literally just responded to, how about responding to the actual argument I put forth.

OF COURSE I am aware Tsunade uses CES. My statement is that she doesn't really use it to fight in base. Her feat with the Tanto isn't base. Her seal is released. Her punches against Kabuto base. Her heavenly kick of pain, base. Now unless you have a better reason for why 1 finger did more damage than a punch besides the concept of Tsunade not using CES at the moment, which you don't, I suggest you cut the snippy "go learn about" before I have to educate you.

 

[BLAZE]

My statement is that she doesn't really use it to fight in base. Her feat with the Tanto isn't base. Her seal is released. Her punches against Kabuto base. Her heavenly kick of pain, base. Now unless you have a better reason for why 1 finger did more damage than a punch besides the concept of Tsunade not using CES at the moment, which you don't, I suggest you cut the snippy "go learn about" before I have to educate you.

maybe becoz ces depends on the amount of chakra you can use
the reason sakura's base punch after gaining the seal was far stronger than ever before becoz she no longer needed to focus chakra on her forhead

the better example will be zetsu surviving an elbow [

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] then a punch [

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] when she killed a giant centipede in one blow [

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]

Tsunade's using finger was intended for parting the ground while punch to kill or immobilse kabuto thus diff results

 

[JStar King]

Tsunade punched Madara and broke his Susano'O. Still waiting on Sakura to do that to something other than dirt.

Sakura is strong, but nothing will make me accept her being tronger than Tsunade until I see her take on five Susanoo clones by herself

 

[LeSauce]

Tl;dr

 

[Tazzilla88]

maybe becoz ces depends on the amount of chakra you can use
the reason sakura's base punch after gaining the seal was far stronger than ever before becoz she no longer needed to focus chakra on her forhead

the better example will be zetsu surviving an elbow [

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] then a punch [

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] when she killed a giant centipede in one blow [

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]

Tsunade's using finger was intended for parting the ground while punch to kill or immobilse kabuto thus diff results

No my example was perfect, you just couldn't rectify it. (You're example is flawed as mokuton has been demonstrably durable. Whereas as Centipede has no such feats whereas, the ground is the ground. Which makes it apt for comparison.) Tsunade wasn't diverting chakra like Sakura, because the seal was already formed and filled so your point is moot.

I know why Sakura's punch in early Part 2 is different than War Arc. Unless you mean to stipulate that her transformation jutsu eats up as much chakra as storing Byakugou reserves. But that's silly as that doesn't equate to the clear difference in power displayed between her usage of a finger and a fist as she had the transformation active for both.
FYI The ground split because of the level of strength(enhanced or otherwise) that struck it, for that same reason a fist should a produce larger crevice as it can channel more strength.


Also what you said at the end is silly.

Trying to kill> Trying to split the ground. Proof? Heavenly Kick of Pain was a kick intended for either Orochimaru or Kabuto's head. Tsunade's enhanced Punch to Oro, was meant to kill. Her punch to Madara was meant to kill.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Sakura is strong, but nothing will make me accept her being tronger than Tsunade until I see her take on five Susanoo clones by herself

Don't recall her actually defeating all 5 though, but I could be wrong since I didn't read much of that fight.

 

[Warlocks]

Sakura's statement that she doesn't need to use her seal to look younger

she didn't need this cuz she still too young

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

The real question is, will she ever surpass Tsunade?

The answer is no ofc.

 

[Tazzilla88]

5y.o tsunade>sakura>Kage tsunade in strength :lol

You have a comprehension problem.

I clearly did not say 5 year old Tsunade> Sakura. As I point out in an earlier post 5 year old Tsunade was only an academy student so no. Academy Student > Chuunin,(specifically War Arc Sakura [though academy student Naruto trained by Iruka beat a chuunin]).

That said, as I stated before you couldn't reason based off of part 1 that Sakura would become anywhere as strong as she does in the war arc. The same can be said if you only saw Early Part 2 Sakura. So then to assume a 3 year old Tsunade would acquire that degree of strength would based on nothing at all or incredible ability an a young age.

If you punch me in the face and because of your punch I think of a 3 year old, I'm either insulting your strength or praising the child. Since he is clearly not insulting her strength. Granddaughter of the first hokage who was a legend before creating Yin seal and other healing jutsu as a teenager.

Also, I could safely state young Senju, young Uchiha could poop on Jonnins so I don't even get your mockery.

 

[Warlocks]

Broke?

- Edit -

Yeah, Sakura surpassed Tsunade .
Powerwise -

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- We still have Adult Sakura to show her true potentional.

so u think earth is more durable then Susano'O.

 

[BLAZE]

No my example was perfect, you just couldn't rectify it. Tsunade wasn't diverting chakra like Sakura, because the seal was already formed and filled so your point is moot.

no it isn't
you are just trying make tsunade look moron that she will use ces against a child but not against kabuto

I know why Sakura's punch in early Part 2 is different than War Arc. Unless you mean to stipulate that her transformation jutsu eats up as much chakra as storing Byakugou reserves. But that's silly as that doesn't equate to the clear difference in power displayed between her usage of a finger and a fist as she had the transformation active for both.
FYI The ground split because of the level of strength(enhanced or otherwise) that struck it, for that same reason a fist she produce larger crevice as it can channel more strength.

nope the finger was used to split the ground specifically split it while punch to kill or incapacitate him.
she hasn't fought for twenty years had to deal with orochimaru later on so why waste chakra.She didn't have much chakra to fight for long.She after the battle [

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] even started to turn old after using the seal [

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]

Also what you said at the end is silly.
Trying to kill> Trying to split the ground. Proof? Heavenly Kick of Pain was a kick intended for either Orochimaru or Kabuto's head. Tsunade's enhanced Punch to Oro, was meant to kill. Her punch to Madara was meant to kill.

did you forgot that was a rusty tsunade.And yes her punch meant to kill orochimaru failed why becoz she was reaching her limits.she didn't have much chakra to begin with

You mean the punch that was enhanced by Byakugou huh.It tore him in half

The stupidity of your post is so high that you assume she is trying to kill kabuto but would not even use CES on him :lol

so u think earth is more durable then Susano'O.

you would need to be lady byakugan tier moron to believe that punch won't break v1 susanoo when A's liger bomb was cracking it and didn't do damage even remotely close to that to the ground

 

[Tazzilla88]

no it isn't
you are just trying make tsunade look moron that she will use ces against a child but not against kabuto

Well that's a rather simplistic way to look at it for a variety of reasons.

1. Kabuto had nothing in his arsenal close to the destructive power of a true rasengan. Thus, wanting to avoid being hit by rasengan more than chakra scalpels makes sense

2. Tsunade clearly did not pull out all the stops against Kabuto, suggesting she clearly didn't see him as someone 'hard to kill' only as nuisance which would be why she attacked Oro and Kabuto at the same time.

3. She is rusty, and the speed of actual combat is different than what Naruto was presenting.

Stop being so simple.

nope the finger was used to split the ground specifically split it while punch to kill or incapacitate him.
she hasn't fought for twenty years had to deal with orochimaru later on so why waste chakra.She didn't have much chakra to fight for long.She after the battle [

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] even started to turn old after using the seal [

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]

Ok, so you agree Tsunade used less striking force fighting Kabuto than she did with her finger strike? Because the ground doesn't care about your intent. Also as her seal reformed after the fight Tsunade still had chakra she just wanted to refill her seal....

did you forgot that was a rusty tsunade.And yes her punch meant to kill orochimaru failed why becoz she was reaching her limits.she didn't have much chakra to begin with

Nope, didn't forget. Just suggesting that if she punched the stone part of the hokage mansion like she hit Madara it would like the stone wall she crushed to bits. But I doubt you know what I'm referencing so I'll start preparing the scans for you.

You mean the punch that was enhanced by Byakugou huh.It tore him in half

Yes, because historically whenever Tsunade gets serious she activates her Yin Seal and uses CES.

The stupidity of your post is so high that you assume she is trying to kill kabuto but would not even use CES on him :lol

Because the Slug Princess didn't use her slug on him and unlike Sakura she also has natural monster strength.

you would be lady byakugan tier moron to believe that punch won't break v1 susanoo when A's liger bomb was cracking it and didn't do damge even remotely close to that to the ground

So Ay, says the only way he's going to crush Madara's defense is by going faster. You argue he could do it with Liger Bomb? lol

 

[BLAZE]

Well that's a rather simplistic way to look at it for a variety of reasons.

Stop being so simple.

ayy lmao

1. Kabuto had nothing in his arsenal close to the destructive power of a true rasengan. Thus, wanting to avoid being hit by rasengan more than chakra scalpels makes sense

tsunade had zero knowledge about his arsenal.she didn't even knew he was a medic before the fight

2. Tsunade clearly did not pull out all the stops against Kabuto, suggesting she clearly didn't see him as someone 'hard to kill' only as nuisance which would be why she attacked Oro and Kabuto at the same time.

did not mean she would not try to incapacitate him at very least since she needs to deal with orochimaru

3. She is rusty, and the speed of actual combat is different than what Naruto was presenting.

honestly after reading the chapter i am starting feel like she never hit the ground perfectly since her hand hit the hole in ground where kabuto was

Ok, so you agree Tsunade used less striking force fighting Kabuto than she did with her finger strike? Because the ground doesn't care about your intent. Also as her seal reformed after the fight Tsunade still had chakra she just wanted to refill her seal....

having seal does not mean she had large amount of chakra left

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or against edo madara where she lost the seal instantly after healing wounds from his katons

Nope, didn't forget. Just suggesting that if she punched the stone part of the hokage mansion like she hit Madara it would like the stone wall she crushed to bits. But I doubt you know what I'm referencing so I'll start preparing the scans for you.

and this wasn't during the fight

Yes, because historically whenever Tsunade gets serious she activates her Yin Seal and uses CES.

nope lmao she didn't.Orochimaru stated it was a new jutsu to him and she was never shown using it in flashback [

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][

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Because the Slug Princess didn't use her slug on him and unlike Sakura she also has natural monster strength.

neither she used slug on madara means she didn't use ces on madara.thats pretty hilarious and stupid at same time

So Ay, says the only way he's going to crush Madara's defense is by going faster. You argue he could do it with Liger Bomb? lol

what are you even talking about

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[Tazzilla88]

ayy lmao


tsunade had zero knowledge about his arsenal.she didn't even knew he was a medic before the fight

Yet she decided to fight him and another sannin at once. Almost makes you think she understands she's a legendary ninja next to a no-name. Using no-name techniques. Not signature techniques of the hokage.

did not mean she would not try to incapacitate him at very least since she needs to deal with orochimaru

incapacitate =/= CES Proof Ranshinsho.

honestly after reading the chapter i am starting feel like she never hit the ground perfectly since her hand hit the hole in ground where kabuto was

Clearly multiple punch marks

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having seal does not mean she had large amount of chakra left

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or against edo madara where she lost the seal instantly after healing wounds from his katons

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Because medical ninjutsu requires a lot of chakra from the get go.

Um she had lots of chakra, used it all to heal her wounds. Because healing consumes a lot of chakra. Thus why healing without handsigns is so difficult.

nope lmao she didn't.Orochimaru stated it was a new jutsu to him and she was never shown using it in flashback [

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][

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][

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Literally go read the OP addressed this.

neither she used slug on madara means she didn't use ces on madara.thats pretty hilarious and stupid at same time

Or you know he could harm Katsuyu. Because he EFFING Madara Uchiha oh and she was actually about summon Katsuyu here.

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what are you even talking about

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The Viz Manga stated "You're Still Able to Block Me with My Speed. So I need to up my speed... and thus the power to destroy your guard." In Gathering of the 5 kage. I'm hoping you have access to Viz and I don't have to screenshot and upload.

 

[BLAZE]

Yet she decided to fight him and another sannin at once. Almost makes you think she understands she's a legendary ninja next to a no-name. Using no-name techniques. Not signature techniques of the hokage.

used ces against kid naruto.there is no reason to believe she won't use it on kabuto

incapacitate =/= CES Proof Ranshinsho.

do you even know why she used Ranshinsho
she was forced to rely on it becoz her muscles were cut

Clearly multiple punch marks

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uh if she was failing to land hits so why do believe she will mindlessly waste chakra

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Because medical ninjutsu requires a lot of chakra from the get go.
Um she had lots of chakra, used it all to heal her wounds. Because healing consumes a lot of chakra. Thus why healing without handsigns is so difficult.

do you even know why i quoted you
i know medical ninjutsu requires good amount of chakra the point was by just having seal does not mean you have large amount left

Literally go read the OP addressed this.

what part i don't see

Or you know he could harm Katsuyu. Because he EFFING Madara Uchiha oh and she was actually about summon Katsuyu here.

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she didn't summon it in the fight just like she didn't summon it against kabuto.thats the point
losing few katsuya clones is better than losing her own life or other kage's.

you are just backpedaling

]The Viz Manga stated "You're Still Able to Block Me with My Speed. So I need to up my speed... and thus the power to destroy your guard." In Gathering of the 5 kage. I'm hoping you have access to Viz and I don't have to screenshot and upload.

what the hell are you even talking about
i was talking about sasuke vs A