[Discussion] Could God ever forgive Satan?

[Inmate]

The Bible implies. No; it says, as long as you come as His child and with a heart that longs to repent, your sins will be forgiven, regardless of the evils you have committed in this world.

Satan is, by far, the most evil of all according to what the Bible says. With evil being his very soul.

Supposing he was capable of change and, somehow he came to a realization of his wrongdoings and beseeched his forgiveness:

> Would God, who speaks of love and passion and mercifulness, put aside his being responsible for each and every evil that has ever clouded the world and so openly accept him into His kingdom with a heart of forgiveness; endlessly sticking by his words;

> Or would He, in the confliction of the encounter of the change, decide no, his sins can never be accounted for and only he can never be forgiven?

What, personally, do you suppose God's reaction would be like in that eerie instance?

 

[Genocide]

the christain god is the real evil one

 

[Inmate]

the christain god is the real evil one

How is he evil?

 

[Genocide]

How is he evil?

[h=1]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”[/h]
Plus if he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he knew that adam & eve would steal the apple off the tree and plus adam and eve didnt have a moral compass to base whether their decision was a test or not

 

[Lyke]

Only God himself knows the answer, not us

Spoiler

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[Inmate]

[h=1]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”[/h]
Plus if he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he knew that adam & eve would steal the apple off the tree and plus adam and eve didnt have a moral compass to base whether their decision was a test or not

To not team up against God, let's argue that he doesn't want to intervene in human affairs without being requested and wants to allow humans to make their own decisions, not wanting them to be like puppets he created only for his joy.

Also, Adam was clearly instructed not to eat from that tree. That was the only thing that was asked of him. And obviously, the snake in the tree manipulated him. That wasn't what God did. He only wanted him to have freedom to not eat from the tree. Not to make him not eat from the tree. See the difference?

He could have simply made him not eat from the tree, but because he respected his "will", he let him do as his heart pleased. I guess there's a dilemma there but it's sort of obvious which decision was best. You wouldn't to be controlled, would you?

Edit: I'm not implying this is exactly what went down in the garden. For all we know, the Bible could have been altered. Or it could be authentic, we don't have proof. But for argument's sake, let's agree we'll use the Bible as the source to proceed the argument. If it'll turn out to be one.

I also, frankly, think God could have simply prevented all of those things from happening. Including Satan's downfall. Everything could have been avoided. But there's a side we don't see. Had God intervened; our world wouldn't exactly be this way. Humanity would've continued on to live like animals. Knowledge wouldn't have come to us. It would be a distant thing we never knew. Though you must acknowledge that knowledge per se is a destructive force.

Imagine a world where we didn't know as much as we do. If we only knew happiness and love and all of which encompassed Adam and Eve before knowledge unveiled itself in the garden. We wouldn't have come across adultery or murder or anything that we're all conscious of to be immoral and vile without even searching in each other's consciousness or hearts for what the answer is. We just know it is, deep down yet we also know the pleasure. Which is exactly what knowledge opened. Let me not get carried away.

Let's stick to what God would conclusively do in that situation were Satan to grasp his misdoings and ask for ultimately a second change to restart as perhaps a mere human?

 

[Inmate]

Only God himself knows the answer, not us

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Lol, excluding Itachi's lordship then.

 

[Genocide]

To not team up against God, let's argue that he doesn't want to intervene in human affairs without being requested and wants to allow humans to make their own decisions, not wanting them to be like puppets he created only for his joy.

Also, Adam was clearly instructed not to eat from that tree. That was the only thing that was asked of him. And obviously, the snake in the tree manipulated him. That wasn't what God did. He only wanted him to have freedom to not eat from the tree. Not to make him not eat from the tree. See the difference?

He could have simply made him not eat from the tree, but because he respected his "will", he let him do as his heart pleased. I guess there's a dilemma there but it's sort of obvious which decision was best. You wouldn't to be controlled, would you?

watch this

Spoiler

[video]https://www.youtube.com/embed/VMZ5L5037ac[/video]

 

[nointro]

To not team up against God, let's argue that he doesn't want to intervene in human affairs without being requested and wants to allow humans to make their own decisions, not wanting them to be like puppets he created only for his joy.

Also, Adam was clearly instructed not to eat from that tree. That was the only thing that was asked of him. And obviously, the snake in the tree manipulated him. That wasn't what God did. He only wanted him to have freedom to not eat from the tree. Not to make him not eat from the tree. See the difference?

He could have simply made him not eat from the tree, but because he respected his "will", he let him do as his heart pleased. I guess there's a dilemma there but it's sort of obvious which decision was best. You wouldn't to be controlled, would you?

It was actually Eve that convinced Adam to eat from the tree and the devil convinced her.. the devil and Adam never had any real interaction

 

[Inmate]

It was actually Eve that convinced Adam to eat from the tree and the devil convinced her.. the devil and Adam never had any real interaction

Eve was convinced by whom? She couldn't have gotten the idea since she was still oblivious.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Well according to Theology, Angels do not need faith like humans do because their angelic essence gives them knowledge of the fullness of divine truth and upon rejecting that truth it is irrevocable because they denied their own being.

 

[Inmate]

watch this

Spoiler

[video]https://www.youtube.com/embed/VMZ5L5037ac[/video]

I can't for now. If I can watch it later?

 

[The Big Boss]

he did that on the 7th day

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

[h=1]“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”[/h]
Plus if he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he knew that adam & eve would steal the apple off the tree and plus adam and eve didnt have a moral compass to base whether their decision was a test or not

It's a cool quote and all, but the able and not willing really doesn't define him as malevolent. Is one evil for giving free will to others? Is he to blame for their actions. Being wronged by evil isn't even an end result for Christians (heaven). So, calling him malevolent for that is nonsense.

 

[Genocide]

I can't for now. If I can watch it later?

its worth the time spent on it trust me

 

[Punk Hazard]

How is he evil?

1. God killed millions of people. Satan killed 6. With God's permission

2. What Satan did to Adam and Eve didn't even condemn them to death. He just gave them knowledge, and God implanted sin and mortality and fragility into them.

3. God had the option of not creating sin in the first place, ensuring that the absolute maximum amount of humans would prosper and there'd be no suffering. And don't give me any bullshit about how we wouldn't understand happiness and prosperity without suffering. God was able to implant wisdom in Solomon. He implanted free will in all humans, and the capacity to sin. He created intelligence in humans, so he definitely could have implanted that kind of wisdom and knowledge inherently without actually needing us to suffer to it.

Either God's retarded or evil.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Well according to Theology, Angels do not need faith like humans do because their angelic essence gives them knowledge of the fullness of divine truth and upon rejecting that truth it is irrevocable because they denied their own being.

Well according to Theology, Angels do not need faith like humans do because their angelic essence gives them knowledge of the fullness of divine truth and upon rejecting that truth it is irrevocable because they denied their own being.

How is that even a coherent decision though, did the devil have autism? It's like the small percentage of humans who say I don't identify as human, I identify as a squirrel, lol.

 

[Genocide]

It's a cool quote and all, but the able and not willing really doesn't define him as malevolent. Is one evil for giving free will to others? Is he to blame for their actions. Being wronged by evil isn't even an end result for Christians (heaven). So, calling him malevolent for that is nonsense.

Can an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that it cannot lift it?

• If yes: the being's power is limited, because it cannot lift the stone.
• If no: the being's power is limited, because it cannot create the stone.
• Either way, the allegedly omnipotent being has proven not to be omnipotent due to the logical contradiction present in both possible answers.

The stone paradox can be substituted with similar examples. E.g. Could an omnipotent being create another being more powerful than itself? Could an omnipotent being destroy itself? Could he create a wall he cannot climb? Could he beat himself at arm-wrestling? And so on. The situation crops up numerous times in different wordings but all mean the same thing.
Some variations gives other useful consequences:
Can God create a cryptography/key exchange system so secure that he himself cannot crack/bypass?

• If no: He does not have the ability to authenticate any of his revelations, and therefore he lacks omnipotence, and cannot
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  .
• If yes: He does not have the ability to bypass encryptions therefore he lacks omnipotence and
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  .

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Get Thee Hence! Oblivion Awaits Thee!​

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[Nobel]

1. God killed millions of people. Satan killed 6. With God's permission

2. What Satan did to Adam and Eve didn't even condemn them to death. He just gave them knowledge, and God implanted sin and mortality and fragility into them.

3. God had the option of not creating sin in the first place, ensuring that the absolute maximum amount of humans would prosper and there'd be no suffering. And don't give me any bullshit about how we wouldn't understand happiness and prosperity without suffering. God was able to implant wisdom in Solomon. He implanted free will in all humans, and the capacity to sin. He created intelligence in humans, so he definitely could have implanted that kind of wisdom and knowledge inherently without actually needing us to suffer to it.

Either God's retarded or evil.

1. Free will was included in the package. Even more so with his angels, and the most prominent lucifer.

2. "Let's make mankind in our image". And he/it is also everything in many shapes or forms.