Mei & Darui VS Kakuzu & Deidara
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KidGamer65
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And it was still Team 10. Darui and Mei are easily faster than any member of that team. Especially Darui. Doesn't really matter. Nor does the "barrage" tactic matter here either because they have the tools to block and evade his attacks. The only one that is dangerous in terms of speed is Gian. Period. Not Atsugai. Not Zukkoku. None of them no matter how much you overrate the former too.
Most of the stuff you mentioned are things that don't affect the conclusion of this match up. Suiton, Black Panther, Storm Release and all that were never ever meant to be offenses to kill Kakuzu. Darui's jutsu having no speed feats is hilarious coming from you when the same thing is almost true for Kakuzu's jutsu. Gian is the only one with a real speed feat, but it's against people with below average speed. :lol
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Kinkaku couldn't evade Laser Circus and called it fast, and it's a guided attack on top of that. That's a better feat than literally any jutsu Kakuzu has under his belt when it comes to it's ability to actually land a hit.
Lmao what birds? Small C1 birds? Easily blocked by Water Wall or defused via Darui's Raiton. Like I said, Deidara is literally useless here. Darui has Raiton and intel. C4 is useless. Black Panther is a projectile type Raiton. C2 is useless. Even if it weren't, the bombs are guided towards them so it doesn't really matter. Then we have the fact that Darui has Ninja Tools and can stream Raiton chakra through them.
No one is downplaying Kakuzu. If this was extreme downplay then you'd be able to make a good argument for why he wins, but since you can't it's pretty apparent that you are overestimating his abilities.
Point is its harder to avoid up close, and no what tools to block? Mei using water dragon in one direction isn't blocking anything from the other side, and the water dragon is the suiton that could most likely be evaporated via the combination of fuuton and katon. Her large water wall goes one direction only so it can block of one jutsu for the most part (still questioning if raiton would go through it) or if the combination could do something to it. Lets not forget the argument that you yourself brought up a ways back, when the combination hits the water wall steam will appear and Kakuzu himself could easily grab the slower and less reactive Mei with threads here.
What does Darui have to block an advance? His tiny water wall, so I'm assuming you're going to stick to evading lol
-Darui has to charge black lightning so he gets smacked any time he tries to defuse Deidara's bombs which is all he's good for here
-Mei gets smacked when she begin casting Acid or Lava (and her speed feats are frankly < 3T Kakashi's so saying she can avoid fuuton without pre-cog is eh)
Storm Release hit a completely stationary Kinkaku who's feats include getting smacked by Akatsuchi and others without great speed, not to mention big boobs lady was holding his arm there. It's guided but it still gets halted by Kakuzu's fuuton probably, if not tanked or avoided not to mention if its guided he's wide open to getting smacked by Deidara or Kakuzu's hearts. As he was smacked by the other brother when using it in the scan you posted.
Oh didn't see that this was full intel lol but Deidara's still not useless as like I said Darui has to stop and diffuse the bombs with the one raiton he has (again questionable if storm release would diffuse)
Yeah but if black lightning can go airborne its just a giant target to hit and diffuse, maybe he could fire a missile or something beforehand lol
Edit- Why did I say smacked so damn much? lmaoooo
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It's a mid-range technique where its efficacy is dependent on the usage of water. I highly doubt it would even succeed in reaching Deidara honestly.
Laser Circus could probably work, but that's what Kakuzu's for.
C2 Can't go THAT far above the ground, and the use of water just helped it spread to others it would work fine as is, and all it has to do is touch the Doton to deactivate it.
Well would lave release completely overpower a suiton? Would Ice release stop raiton? KKG's don't have the same exact advantages and disadvantages as the elements residing within.
The use of water expanded its range, making it instrumental for long-range. That said, I don't see how a jutsu tailored for mid-range is going to tag Deidara from afar. He would need Suiton to extricate it from its range limitation which is impractical.
Storm Release was replicated by fodder ninja while Kakuzu's Ration easily stalemated two Raikiri which presumably wasn't at full-power. There's no comparison, Kakuzu doesn't need an intrinsic advantage to overcome Darui's jutsu with ease.
Darui has Futon nature too. He could have taken out that Raiton heart with his own jutsu if a fodder like Tenten can swing a weapon and knock it out that easily.
Choji didn't fight Kakuzu. Shikaku told him to fight Asuma and let Darui beat Kakuzu with his Raiton. Of course Choji had him pinned down to wait for him to get sealed. Lots of sealing corps fodders did the same for the Edo.
Izumo and Kotetsu don't hold a candle to Kakuzu like how Choji and Ino didn't so they were most likely non factors.
Choji is "Kage Level"? Fūćk out of here lol Choji ain't "Kage Level". Name one Kage Choji beats 1 trillion percent of the time? I'll wait.
Ambivalence
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Lol at that restriction. Deidara dies first, then Kakuzu eventually falls.
Without that restriction, as soon as Deidara flies up it's over for the Kage.
Without that restriction, as soon as Deidara flies up it's over for the Kage.
KidGamer65
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It's only feat is failing to catch people with below average speed so good luck arguing that somehow Mei and Darui are unable to react and get hit unless it's from a very close range, which they wouldn't let happen regardless. That steam argument is also an argument not worth bringing up unless you can show that Mei will be in mid air unable to properly react like Kakashi was. Then we have the fact that she'll have Darui right near her at all times so if Kakuzu tries this he gets intercepted.
His Water Wall is enough to block Katon. Raiton is evaded. Fuuton is blocked by Mei. Katon+Fuuton is blocked by them both.
Lmao no, he doesn't.
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That clearly isn't a charge time that is the regular hand sign --> jutsu usage that has always taken place in this Manga.
Smacked by what? Lmao. Mei's jutsu all require one hand sign. Kakuzu's jutsu either have no or have poor speed feats so I'm not sure how you are going to be able to logically argue that she gets taken out while in the process of using a jutsu. Kakashi is an example you love to bring up no matter how many times someone debunks or refutes it. Kakashi was in mid air and had to deal with a diversion from Hidan yet still evaded it. Without someone replicating those exact conditions you don't need to be anywhere near as fast as Kakashi to dodge it. Please stop saying you need precog or top tier speed to evade Fuuton because that couldn't be further from the truth.
He was stationary because he couldn't evade. He was stationary beforehand because that's how all targets are unless you are saying Kakuzu and Deidara will be running around the entire time. And lmao He was the one holding her hostage. She was holding his arm but I really hope you aren't going to argue that the light grip she had on his arm was holding his entire body in place when he was clearly the one holding her in place. Him being left open is also a no due to Mei, then we have the fact that none of them have the speed to prepare and launch any kind of deadly jutsu in the short time frame it takes to use laser circus.
-Sure, Fuuton can stop it, but no one said it had to be used on Kakuzu himself. There is still Deidara who is stuck on the ground and there are still Kakuzu's masks since you are using the strategy of Kakuzu using multiple jutsu to try and box his foes in. Only the Wind heart is equipped to deal with Laser Circus, the rest aren't meaning if he releases them to try and box them in like that he gets his masks picked off one by one.
-Akatsuchi was a surprise attack, and where is it stated that he doesn't have good speed? Nowhere.
-Where are these others? They don't exist.
You're clearly purposely exaggerating the time it takes Darui to use his techniques to make it seem like he's as useless as Deidara here when in reality that is clearly not the case. C1 and all it's variants are things Mei can block with her own Water Wall or Water Dragon. C2 is the only thing they need to actually defuse, and they are guided towards them so throwing a Raiton infused Ninja tool (1 Raiton huh? :lol) or using Black Lightning to defus isn't going to be so hard. C2 Dragon can only fire as many bombs as it has clay on it's tail, so once that runs out the dragon is useless. Deidara can never lay a hand on them.
After revisiting the scans,
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but Madara's katon is
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so I guess Madara's katon is larger. Also Mei was going to douse Madara's much
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considering how small susanoo is in comparison whereas that
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. I don't think Yamato and Naruto could have doused it themselves so I can agree that she can successfully block it. Mei's lava can get through domu but it can be blown away and at the same time kill Mei. She can't use suiton and youton simultaneously.
Yeah I can agree with this.
Kakuzu's katon was never a problem, it was the katon+fuuton combo but I have my doubts that it is on a higher level than Mei's suiton and even if it is, I doubt it is so much stronger that Mei can't cancel it out despite elemental disadvantage.
Katon+fuuton combo isn't fast but it would have an even wider range. Still I agree with you that it isn't going to be much of a threat.
Except Kakashi was caught straight up the ground as well, with enough chakra to still keep the Sharingan active and perform Raikiri so shunshin should have been an option. He also somehow avoided his fuuton in the air while battling Hidan so being airborne doesn't mean completely useless. Mei will be recovering from the same exact action as Kakashi and has less reaction so on ground or in the air doesn't matter when the threads come bursting through the steam and catch her before her or darui can realize (also you have darui defusing explosives here? So will he always have the attention to notice thing threads appearing through Mei's giant water wall along with steam.
Why can't they go close range here? Also since WHEN is 3T Kakashi << Mei and Darui in speed? Darui is maybe equal but I would't say he's faster by any-means. Not when he was fighting on par with Suigetsu lol.
Can raiton be evaded when he's using a waterwall to block a katon? Mei can't see the Raiton coming due to its smaller nature than the other jutsu. How can possibly have Mei and Darui keeping their eyes ON EVERY FACET IN THIS FIGHT when they're using massive jutsu that require focus? If it takes both of them to deal with ONE of Kakuzu's moves who's canceling Deidara's explosive? The water wall and Katon + Fuuton would be clashing for a while.
I suppose I remembered wrong yeah.
The diversion from Hidan did nothing but mask the movement of the Fuuton Heart lol he stopped attacking when it was used so stop acting like it hindered his speed in anyways. He was near giant tree's so all he had to do was shunshin off of one to escape (which precog let him get to obviously) you have and never will debunk anything I'm not saying its god-tier speed and I don't know why this has been so hard for you to believe lol but Mei who has not a SINGLE speed feat in the entire manga besides knocking black zetsu should NOT be able to stop casting acid mist (which is dangerous for her teammates as she can't control Ph) and avoid a jutsu that large without pre-cog (which also gives you the dimensions of the jutsu so Kakashi knew where to go) and I will continue to say this. Even without the acid-mist as a precursor when used directly near her she's not avoiding it. With explosives two other hearts and Kakuzu to worry about here that is most certainly a possibility. Especially when nothing she has is taking down the heart lol her water dragon showed zero damage to Madara didn't it? The hearts have tanked direct hits from Chouji mind you. It should logically be able to deflect the lava with miniwind styles if not flat out avoid its slowness. Acid mist is reflected from the start and anything Darui uses is countered by the wind style lol.
Lmfao
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Its literally as fast as Kankuro summoning and using a puppet, temari's fuuton AT LEAST in prep time. Kakuzu doesn't need a handsign, shown when he uses the combination and when he uses the smaller variant of the wind style
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also this
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was probably the large fuuton (very large katon+fuuton) and seeing as how the DB states explicitly the jutsu is quick to cast I'm sure he can deflect any and all laser circus attempts lol as well as striking the stationary (guiding) Darui in the process.You have no counter to Darui being stationary when using laser circus and Mei isn't blocking it if the other masks and Kakuzu himself are battling her directly lol so sure have him sit there and try and guide it towards multiple hearts (could Gian not intercept it?) that can also spam jutsu that would force him to retreat and evade (drop the jutsu) since you're having him and Mei hold hands.
He was hit by Chouza and caught by Shikamaru and Ino was he not? lol
Again what stops him from just raining the mines over their heads? Sure they do LESS when not burried but they still can deal some damage and cause mayhem for Darui and Mei when rained above them.
Still have no way of killing Kakuzu though, Mei and Darui have been on the defensive the whole time here. Unless you're saying laser circus is going to blitz him to death.
Also this whole battle changes with the fact that Deidara can go underground with speed and ease lol and neither of them have the ability to see where (Mei's water wall brings him up) if it does start from underground her stopping and casting that with Kakuzu there is risky and it won't do any damage to him lol.
Oh so Darui's featless futon can compete with the futon created by one of the SO6P's tool? While Kakuzu was outnumbered so he was forced to have his masks outside his body? Lmao. Kakuzu keeps his masks inside his body, and dodges or counters Darui's fodder futon with his own.
But then we clearly see that the one who beat him is choji
Relevance on this? Yes, Kakuzu was outnumbered by several high rank shinobis and two kage level shinobis, and Choji was the one that beat him BY THE ONLY FEAT WE HAVE OF THAT FIGHT
This is irrelevant in a manga where support characters are key when they join a team with multiple strong shinobis.
Lmao, Choji is not kage level now? Giant butterfly Choji has more than enough feats to be in that tier. I won't waste my time to fullfill your stupid request, since by feats Choji is on that level, no matter how many kages he does or does not beat.
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Chouji beats Mei, Kurotsuchi, Chojuro, Darui and Hokage Kakashi.
BenjerminGaye
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one can make the argument that the clay itself is just earth release, with the explosion itself being Explosion Release.
but if we were to attribute both releases to lazer circus then the benefits of lightning>earth would be counteracted by the drawbacks of earth>water. and lightning itself would be cancelled out by lightning since both techniques contain it.... which would still kinda explain why sasuke lightning techs fck over deidara's clay. The lightning in each cancels out so to speak.
Whats so impressive about the Banana Fan's nature jutsu? The magic to it is that it produces all 5 natures. No one ever said they're supposed to be uber powerful. Perhaps the power it releases is based on the users power. We don't know. All we can do is judge whats been shown and based on the Katon and Futon it released, they're not as strong as you're making them out to be.
Wrong. We see Choji holding Kakuzu down for him to get sealed. We see Darui and fodders actually fighting him.
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Kage level is a fan dubbed term that is extremely subjective and used too loosely if I might add. In my opinion "Kage level" is judged by skill, not by circumstance. If I save someone out of a burning building, that doesn't mean I have firefighter level physique and training. If I solve one world issue, that doesn't mean my mind is of the level of a president. Choji having a chance against any Kage is due to matchup and circumstance, not his overall skill. Period. His skill is physical strength and size. Put him against any other Kage level characters who's skill is strength and size and he gets shitstomped by every single one of them and looks like the chunin level shinobi he is. (Ay IV, Ay III, Tsunade, Gai, Bee etc)
But since he has so many Kage tier feats, they should be really easy for you to list. I'll wait.
No, he doesn't beat any one of those characters.
Mei melts his ass unless he's as durable as Susanoo.
Kakashi cuts his legs/arms off with Raikiri chain, unless hes bigger and faster than Gedo Mazo and is immune to Raikiri (he isn't any of those things by a long shot)
The Gokage from Boruto movie kill the shit out of Choji. Kinshiki is on par with Sasuke in CQC. The fact that the Gokage can fight with him and not get utterly shitblitzed stomped instantly goes to show they're on that tier. Better than Sasuke an Kinshiki? Most likely not, but close enough that they can engage with him in a fight which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything Choji has shown.
I think once the lightning properties hit the birds they get diffused. Gaara's sand/magnet style is weak to lightning and sand is Earth + Wind fusion. It can't be earth + lightning like some people believe (because you know electricity, magnetic forces etc) because Shukaku uses wind, not lightning, and Rasa knows every element except lightning jutsu so he couldn't have been using lightning to manipulate his magnet style. The wind in magent style should counteract lightning jutsu from breaking through it but it doesn't. maybe depending on the power or chakra in the move some might have priority over others.
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