7 undeniable Sasuke Nerfs

[BenjerminGaye]

I cannot deny this.

Sasuke at the beginning of part 2 was portrayed as almost being leagues above naruto.
Then suddenly hes weak af against deidara

u talk like deidara isn't feared by kage's -_-

 

[Amenotejikara]

because itachi was the only one to use susanoo at the time you moron

If everyone is a moron except you, then maybe it's you whose the real moron? Last time I'm saying this. if you're suggesting it only states what is shown directly in the manga as it's "fact" until manga says otherwise, then it would simply say exactly what I just said before. "awake MS and you get susanoo". that's it. the manga did not and I repeat did not enforced tsukuyomi and amaterasu = susanoo or even implied it, the databook started it. therefore their DB3 reason was not by limited plot but rather additioned it. so either A the databook is unreliable or B it simply retcon it. choose.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

That still doesn't mean that those are the requirements. He simply stated that once he awakened these two powers, a third would be granted, he never said that it was the rule for all Mangekyo users. If you don't have the reasoning skills to figure it out, then I don't know what to say.

you basically agreed with me then

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

If everyone is a moron except you, then maybe it's you whose the real moron? Last time I'm saying this. if you're suggesting it only states what is shown directly in the manga as it's "fact" until manga says otherwise, then it would simply say exactly what I just said before. "awake MS and you get susanoo". that's it. the manga did not and I repeat did not enforced tsukuyomi and amaterasu = susanoo or even implied it, the databook started it. therefore their DB3 reason was not by limited plot but rather additioned it. so either A the databook is unreliable or B it simply retcon it. choose.

oh so you basically agree with me then

 

[Tantalus Thief]

because itachi was the only one to use susanoo at the time you moron

Sasuke's dialogue at the kage summit (which came after the DB3) support what the DB and Itachi said earlier. So yeah it's pretty clear Kishimoto orginally meant for Susanoo to be unlocked by Ama+tsukuyomi.

Spoiler

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Of course, Sasuke's feats doesn't add up regarding tsukuyomi and Obito/Madara ohave neither hence why me and Ameno believe Kishi retconned it (or whatever term people use when an author changes somethng he/she said established earlier) to merely having dual MS gives you susanoo.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Sasuke's dialogue at the kage summit (which came after the DB3) support what the DB and Itachi said earlier. So yeah it's pretty clear Kishimoto orginally meant for Susanoo to be unlocked by Ama+tsukuyomi.

Spoiler

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Of course, Sasuke's feats doesn't add up regarding tsukuyomi and Obito/Madara ohave neither hence why me and Ameno believe Kishi retconned it (or whatever term people use when an author changes somethng he/she said established earlier) to merely having dual MS gives you susanoo.

question...how many people have used susanoo before that databook entry was made?...because you'd have to be a god damn moron to believe that amaterasu + tsukuyomi = susanoo when ITACHI WAS THE ONLY NINJA IN QUESTION BEING REFERRED TO

 

[Floydical]

Spoiler

Noticed alot of lowball sasuke threads lately, But I wonder if those would had transpired had sasuke not be nerfed.

Let's not deny that sasuke's one and only true weakness is Plot.



Taijutsu speed.

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Prime: By mirroring lee's movements. sasuke drastically increased his raw speed. able to outspeed gaara's sand then suddenly afterwards he couldn't parry anyone w/o curse mark or 3T

Curse Seal

Prime: Before it was just used for enhancing ninjutsu, in part 1 it drastically improved CQC much like sagemode today.

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Chidori True Spear

Prime: Multiple Skewed Spears able to fatallysever multiple organs at once. Imagine had he used this against danzo? he and karin would be dead asap and obito would had retrieved his shisui sharingan eye. but no, plot can't have that now can we?

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Kirin

Prime: No Impractical long prep time.

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Amaterasu

Prime: No slow burning rate on main target.

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tsukuyomi

Prime: Sasuke originally used a watered down version of itachi's tsukuyomi against killer B. but sadly, it has just become retcon as just generic:sharingan, which begs the question. why even bother going MS to trance B in gen?

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Rinnegan

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Prime: Konan, jiraiya, obito, itachi, nagato and madara hypes up rinnegan that can do anything possible including the six path techniques, but so far sasuke has only shown just half of them. and out of the half he did, only used them to half it's potential.



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When it came to his raw speed, I see the point but I'm certain others simply caught up to his speed and it was eventually equalized. He was simply the first to achieve that besides Lee.

Its funny you mention Sage mode when describing early Curse Mark feats but that's exactly whats its been confirmed to be, a lesser form of sage mode. If anything, the boost curse mark gave to CQC was simply negated by the increased strength of his opponents over time, just like his speed.

Sasuke's lightning skewer I'd say was mostly plot hyped. It was likely used to show Sasuke's capability to enrage and be miraculous when dealing with Itachi. Considering it seemed to lack significant chakra use while being so deadly, I doubt Kishi had real plans for it other than to have Sasuke show off.

I think you overestimate Kishi's own trolling potential on Kirin. It could be argued several ways that Sasuke could not actually use any strong form on Kirin in such a situation. I'd say its plot and Sasuke couldn't actually use Kirin in that situation. Since we didn't know about the tech at that time, perhaps Kishi felt he could get away with it and intrigue the audience at the same time. Even if he could actually use it there, its likely it would have been a very weak version. Its even possible he could have tried to use it and it would fail due to lack of storm clouds. I don't consider this one to argue over as no feat was ever shown, just the threat of a feat.

Itachi's use of Amaterasu could also be considered plot based. We also didn't know about that tech at that given time. Because of this, Kishi was able to get away with increasing it power when showing it for the first time. Once it was required to make tech viable while not being TOO op, it was more normalized. Its not a character or tech really getting nerfed, just overhyped on its first use.

Sasuke never had Tsukyomi, it was always a normal genjutsu he used. He never once called his genjutsu Tsukyomi and binding a target in that way within a genjutsu does not require it. A strong non-Uchiha genjutsu user could bind a person by stabbing them if they wanted too.

Arguing about the Rinnegan is pointless. All Rinnegan users have every one of the 6 paths. Him not using them is plot based just like how Obito was not using them was plot based. That and the fact that more time could reveal the use of more of these jutsu.

 

[UnknownJin]

When it came to his raw speed, I see the point but I'm certain others simply caught up to his speed and it was eventually equalized. He was simply the first to achieve that besides Lee.

Its funny you mention Sage mode when describing early Curse Mark feats but that's exactly whats its been confirmed to be, a lesser form of sage mode. If anything, the boost curse mark gave to CQC was simply negated by the increased strength of his opponents over time, just like his speed.

Sasuke's lightning skewer I'd say was mostly plot hyped. It was likely used to show Sasuke's capability to enrage and be miraculous when dealing with Itachi. Considering it seemed to lack significant chakra use while being so deadly, I doubt Kishi had real plans for it other than to have Sasuke show off.

I think you overestimate Kishi's own trolling potential on Kirin. It could be argued several ways that Sasuke could not actually use any strong form on Kirin in such a situation. I'd say its plot and Sasuke couldn't actually use Kirin in that situation. Since we didn't know about the tech at that time, perhaps Kishi felt he could get away with it and intrigue the audience at the same time. Even if he could actually use it there, its likely it would have been a very weak version. Its even possible he could have tried to use it and it would fail due to lack of storm clouds. I don't consider this one to argue over as no feat was ever shown, just the threat of a feat.

Itachi's use of Amaterasu could also be considered plot based. We also didn't know about that tech at that given time. Because of this, Kishi was able to get away with increasing it power when showing it for the first time. Once it was required to make tech viable while not being TOO op, it was more normalized. Its not a character or tech really getting nerfed, just overhyped on its first use.

Sasuke never had Tsukyomi, it was always a normal genjutsu he used. He never once called his genjutsu Tsukyomi and binding a target in that way within a genjutsu does not require it. A strong non-Uchiha genjutsu user could bind a person by stabbing them if they wanted too.

Arguing about the Rinnegan is pointless. All Rinnegan users have every one of the 6 paths. Him not using them is plot based just like how Obito was not using them was plot based. That and the fact that more time could reveal the use of more of these jutsu.

Amaterasu destroyed mountain toad belly then again later , cant even burn fodder Samurai ?

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thats nerf not overhype

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Amaterasu destroyed mountain toad belly then again later , cant even burn fodder Samurai ?

thats nerf not overhype

looks like you don't know how fire works

 

[Ansatsuken]

looks like you don't know how fire works

Enlighten him please :sdo:

 

[Amenotejikara]

When it came to his raw speed, I see the point but I'm certain others simply caught up to his speed and it was eventually equalized. He was simply the first to achieve that besides Lee.

Its funny you mention Sage mode when describing early Curse Mark feats but that's exactly whats its been confirmed to be, a lesser form of sage mode. If anything, the boost curse mark gave to CQC was simply negated by the increased strength of his opponents over time, just like his speed.

Sasuke's lightning skewer I'd say was mostly plot hyped. It was likely used to show Sasuke's capability to enrage and be miraculous when dealing with Itachi. Considering it seemed to lack significant chakra use while being so deadly, I doubt Kishi had real plans for it other than to have Sasuke show off.

I think you overestimate Kishi's own trolling potential on Kirin. It could be argued several ways that Sasuke could not actually use any strong form on Kirin in such a situation. I'd say its plot and Sasuke couldn't actually use Kirin in that situation. Since we didn't know about the tech at that time, perhaps Kishi felt he could get away with it and intrigue the audience at the same time. Even if he could actually use it there, its likely it would have been a very weak version. Its even possible he could have tried to use it and it would fail due to lack of storm clouds. I don't consider this one to argue over as no feat was ever shown, just the threat of a feat.

Itachi's use of Amaterasu could also be considered plot based. We also didn't know about that tech at that given time. Because of this, Kishi was able to get away with increasing it power when showing it for the first time. Once it was required to make tech viable while not being TOO op, it was more normalized. Its not a character or tech really getting nerfed, just overhyped on its first use.

Sasuke never had Tsukyomi, it was always a normal genjutsu he used. He never once called his genjutsu Tsukyomi and binding a target in that way within a genjutsu does not require it. A strong non-Uchiha genjutsu user could bind a person by stabbing them if they wanted too.

Arguing about the Rinnegan is pointless. All Rinnegan users have every one of the 6 paths. Him not using them is plot based just like how Obito was not using them was plot based. That and the fact that more time could reveal the use of more of these jutsu.

So weighted rock lee was able to clown both naruto and sasuke, the latter copies it and achieves weightless lee speed and was able to react and dodge gaara's sand, where as it took 2k naruto clones to handle gaara but somehow sasuke is forced to rely on curse mark just to parry base naruto in vote1? unless i'm missing something it seems like a nerf to me.

Guess that makes sense. forgot this manga heavily relies more on portrayal standpoint rather than feats. like how curse mark pts sasuke was more impressive than kakashi but obviously he'd still get rekt by him regardless. so yes it is likely curse mark gave him benefits but the gap between his opponents made it look insignificant.


So basically nerf. lol

eh. if it were just sasuke there doing the taunt then maybe. but for orochimaru to willingly force himself to grab sasuke and ignore removing his hand despite previously and in the war arc kissing sasuke's ass 24/7 it had to of been some credibility to it. probably not mountain buster but enough to kill base team 7 in one shot. Also noticed he used hand signs, so likely it was more chakra focused than natural lightning

Wasn't the first time amat quickly burned through it's target, weakened sure but it wasn't until sasuke got it where it became a laughable joke. kishi seem to of brought some of it's hype back by using it with flame control but even then he only let's him use it for fodder and/or plot driven like you said.

It's not required to mention the name of the technique or is it against using hand signs with it like amaterasu


fair enough but honestly at this point, the amount of plot base restrictions in this manga might as well be considered a nerf. Sure every now and then they might get that one op boost for plot but it's not enough to justify all the times it was crap. I noticed this alot with manga's in general compared to comic books. Dragonball being the worst.

 

[To Whatever]

The Op a petty ass bitch for complaining about nerfs.

The fucking guy is a main character and won a majority of his fights regardless.

What the fuck is a nerf to that guy when him and Naruto pull shit out of their ass every fight

 

[Floydical]

Amaterasu destroyed mountain toad belly then again later , cant even burn fodder Samurai ?

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thats nerf not overhype

Honestly, its how you look at it. You can call it a nerf if you want, but my point is this is early in the manga where you make your case where the idea might not have been fully realized. I don't see it as being nerfed, but rather seeing it as it should be later in the manga. At the time of Itachi's first use, burning through the toad belly likely seemed logical to Kishi but than later realized that is not what he actually intended the jutsu to do. So in my eyes, the Jutsu wasn't nerfed but brought to its proper acceptable level later on when it started out with illogical feats. I mean to break through the toad belly the way it did, it would have to be on par with dust release, forming the same kind of frontal cone to do that kind of damage that fast. I don't think Kishi really intended it to be seen like that and later realized he overhyped it. Again it could be called a nerf, but I consider it a proper final form of the jutsu where he originally overhyped it.

I hope that made at least some sense, but I think Kishi simply unintentionally overhyped it, giving it an illogical feat from the start perhaps before the idea was finalized.

 

[Uchihakil]

2017 and people still don't know what retcon mean. *smh*



exactly. databook credibility is a joke tbh, if it legitimately wasn't retcon it would not had been so detailed as it was, it could've easily just said those who possess two mangekyou eyes can awaken susanoo and that's it. there was zero quotes in the manga that even implied it required those two abilities so there is zero reason that would prompt the databook to even suggest it unless it had a reason to.

Retcon or not, we have long passed the stage for an argument on whether sasuke has tsukiyomi or not, thats years back so dont gimme dat retcon shit

 

[Uchihakil]

Last time i checked, it was stated that the requirement to awaken susano is by having to MS abilities, so its not even a retcon in the manga but the db

 

[Amenotejikara]

The Op a petty ass bitch for complaining about nerfs.

The fucking guy is a main character and won a majority of his fights regardless.

What the fuck is a nerf to that guy when him and Naruto pull shit out of their ass every fight

lol man get your raditz clone looking ***** ass out of my thread. Not only did sasuke not win majority of fights on his own right, the ones he did win wasn't till after getting his ass handed to him when it was never needed in the first place. wtf is an asspull if the nerf makes it useless either way, the rinnegan is a prime example of that. moron

get's rinnegan has yet to absorb ninjutsu. the only useful path that actually counters against naruto's offense.

 

[To Whatever]

lol man get your raditz clone looking ***** ass out of my thread. Not only did sasuke not win majority of fights on his own right, the ones he did win wasn't till after getting his ass handed to him when it was never needed in the first place. wtf is an asspull if the nerf makes it useless either way, the rinnegan is a prime example of that. moron

get's rinnegan has yet to absorb ninjutsu. the only useful path that actually counters against naruto's offense.

Doesn't matter, bitch he still wins. He's a main character; He ain't truly losing to anyone except the titular character and that shit wasn't even a true loss. So stop being a fuck boy. *****in over some overpowered shit when hes already op.

 

[UnknownJin]

Honestly, its how you look at it. You can call it a nerf if you want, but my point is this is early in the manga where you make your case where the idea might not have been fully realized. I don't see it as being nerfed, but rather seeing it as it should be later in the manga. At the time of Itachi's first use, burning through the toad belly likely seemed logical to Kishi but than later realized that is not what he actually intended the jutsu to do. So in my eyes, the Jutsu wasn't nerfed but brought to its proper acceptable level later on when it started out with illogical feats. I mean to break through the toad belly the way it did, it would have to be on par with dust release, forming the same kind of frontal cone to do that kind of damage that fast. I don't think Kishi really intended it to be seen like that and later realized he overhyped it. Again it could be called a nerf, but I consider it a proper final form of the jutsu where he originally overhyped it.

I hope that made at least some sense, but I think Kishi simply unintentionally overhyped it, giving it an illogical feat from the start perhaps before the idea was finalized.

Considering its a black flames its hype and power shouldnt even been nerfed to the point where jutsu became so useless that cant even burn fodder Samurai... i know what u trying to say , but its a nerf.

 

[UnknownJin]

looks like you don't know how fire works

fire whats that ? :elmo:

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Considering its a black flames its hype and power shouldnt even been nerfed to the point where jutsu became so useless that cant even burn fodder Samurai... i know what u trying to say , but its a nerf.

DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW FIRE (or science) IN GENERAL WORKS???