#Rival

neosmith500

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Same could be said for the opposing view as well.
Yea but u saying he never took any drugs at all or that they never played a substantial part in his growth at the time is false considering the first pill he took gave him a giant leap in stats as a starting point for him to build from after reaching Oro so attributing it all to natural progression contradicts the very reason Sasuke went to him in the first place...
 
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Darth AniCetuS

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There's nothing polarizing about it given that Sasuke's development as a ninja when he was 7 is eclipsed by the improvements he's made through Kakashi and Orochimaru. Using this as a decisive piece of evidence is flawed given that a genius's power is also dependent on training and various different factors. Lee and Naruto are congruous with that fundamental principle with Naruto's potential especially skyrocketing after his training with Kakashi even moreso with Jiraiya even though his natural potential remains the same.
Lol, Kakashi only taught Naruto the basic stuff most of the time same as he taught the rest of Team 7. However he paid extra attention to Sasuke for the reasons I mentioned before. And with Sasuke's natural talents and based on what you've been claiming Sasuke should've already been much ahead of Naruto but they weren't and Sasuke always recognized this fact. Now lets compare Jiraiya's training during the chunin arc where Kakshi completely ignored Naruto's training and chose to train Sasuke. While Kakashi built Sasuke's speed and taught him the chidori, Jiraiya undid Oro's seal on Naruto and taught him summoning jutsu. So Jiraiya didn't teach him anything special other than the summoning jutsu which he couldn't use under most situations.

This is very verbose, so I will briefly address this:

1. It actually does. Sasuke was revolted by it, so it's more than likely an indication that Tsunade was wrong. Tsunade surmised that Sasuke did, but in all actuality, she had no grasp of Sasuke's potential. Orochimaru knew of Sasuke's capabilities yet acknowledged that the improvements made was due to his talent as a ninja. These two components are decisive pieces of evidence that leads us to the conclusion that Sasuke did not consume drugs.
No it doesn't. Sasuke was revolted by the idea of going to Oro as well but he did go to him in the end. He was ready to do anything to beat Itachi. Lol, maybe Tsunade didn't know Sasuke's potential which I doubt is the case considering Kakashi must have filled her in with details on Sasuke but okay let say she didn't know. But Sakura knew Sasuke's potential, why was she surprised seeing Sasuke in action and then why she didn't correct Tsunade when she hypothesized the reason behind Sasuke's growth. Okay lets disregard Sakura as well, why didn't Kakashi correct Sakura when she told that Sasuke took enhancement drugs. Surely Kakashi knew of Sasuke's potential, he a genius himself considered Sasuke a lot like him. There are so many holes in your theory that the obvious bias of a Sasuke fan is clearly showing.
Only Oro knew of Sasuke's potential lol while everyone else who knew him for years didn't. Really? That's your logic?

2. Who knows. I'm not keen on explaining this given that it's inexplicable as to how Orochimaru trained Sasuke and trying to debate this will just prolong the argument unnecessarily.
Oh, but this is the most important part of the discussion. What kind of training did Oro give him that he improved so much. The same Sasuke with whom Naruto was keeping up while he was in the village and then he goes to Oro and suddenly there's a gap. If it was training as I explained he could've gained more staying in the village and training with Gai and Kakashi. So I am curious on what type of unique training Oro gave him.

3. Cursed Seal isn't anything like a drug given that it's dependent on the user's power. Drugs such as steroids are evidently used to bolster's one's improvements beyond normal means which was not the case with Sasuke as explained before. The Cursed Seal supplements Sasuke with power by enabling him to exhaust even more chakra at a given time, but it does not induce significantly greater growth beyond normal means. His rate of maturation was solely based on his own training and potential, not on drugs.
It is, its kind of an enzyme I guess that Oro injected into Sasuke. And CM ofc did improve Sasuke's abilities beyond normal means lol. Your reasoning if flawed again. CM enables the user to use NE. Now compare Naruto in base mode with SM Naruto you'll have your answer, ofc CM is nowhere close to SM though. Well Ninjas train and grow to get stronger and CM made Sasuke stronger. It was a shortcut, just the thing he was looking for at the time.

I'm not sure why you deliberately misconstrued the argument I proposed.

My point was that shinobi have exhibited greater growth depending on their teacher and this was explicitly shown with Kakashi and Jiraiya even though Naruto does not consume drugs. Given this, Sasuke's erratic rate of maturation isn't indicative of Sasuke consuming drugs as Orochimaru could've elicited even more tremendous growth and he certainly could given that Orochimaru's prestige as a Sannin entails greater experience and Orochimaru's repertoire and vast knowledge eclipses Kakashi's as well.

Orochimaru simply had more to bring to the table than Kakashi did.
So lets do the math again. While Sasuke and Naruto were in Konoha training under the same teacher, both of them were keeping up with each other. I guess Sasuke's natural abilities were sleeping at the time :rolleyes:. After that both go to train under a Sannin and then suddenly Sasuke comes out much stronger. When you say Oro as a sannin had a lot more to bring to the table you forget that Naruto was also training with a Sannin of equal caliber. So I didn't misinterpret anything its just that your arguments are flawed or biased.
Oro tempts Sasuke with powers like CM and then Sasuke just goes and trains under him...:lmao: yep that makes real sense...to a Sasuke fan ofc.
 
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neosmith500

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Its clear that Sasuke took medicines and/or used forbidden jutsu to leap his progress as this is wat the story blatantly shows in P1 and was again cemented at the p2 reunion where Sasuke's progress was labeled abnormal even tho he was trained by Oro for 2 whole years , which is why Kishi used Tsunade/Sakura to cement the fact , the former of whom knows Orochimaru very well yet she came to the conclusion and gave two answers for his growth and none of them were normal or based solely on his own talent , then we have Kakashi who noted Sasuke's resistance to poisons due to Oro's drugs...

Sasuke clearly gained more skill due to his training with Oro which played a part in his progress but u cant have one without the other so he either took drugs and/or was physically enhanced by Forbidden jutsu as is wat the manga illustrates as Sasuke didn't care if he had to take drugs as long as his goal is met..
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NarutoX28

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Sasuke clearly gained more skill due to his training with Oro which played a part in his progress but u cant have one without the other so he either took drugs and/or was physically enhanced by Forbidden jutsu as is wat the manga illustrates as Sasuke didn't care if he had to take drugs as long as his goal is met..
You can given that there are contradictions to the idea behind Sasuke consuming drugs and you're excluding key words such as, "She told me it's possible..." implying that this isn't a factual and grounded statement, it was merely an assumption on her part which means it doesn't have to be true.

I already gave my position and I've already refuted evidence people already presented before, so read my previous arguments if you really want to discuss this thoroughly.
 

NarutoX28

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Lol, Kakashi only taught Naruto the basic stuff most of the time same as he taught the rest of Team 7. However he paid extra attention to Sasuke for the reasons I mentioned before. And with Sasuke's natural talents and based on what you've been claiming Sasuke should've already been much ahead of Naruto but they weren't and Sasuke always recognized this fact. Now lets compare Jiraiya's training during the chunin arc where Kakshi completely ignored Naruto's training and chose to train Sasuke. While Kakashi built Sasuke's speed and taught him the chidori, Jiraiya undid Oro's seal on Naruto and taught him summoning jutsu. So Jiraiya didn't teach him anything special other than the summoning jutsu which he couldn't use under most situations.
I'm not going to address this because your argument is so convoluted and so far from what I was trying to convey in the first place.

Do you agree that training and your teacher is a factor in a shinobi's physical improvement? Yes or no, very simple question.

No it doesn't. Sasuke was revolted by the idea of going to Oro as well but he did go to him in the end. He was ready to do anything to beat Itachi. Lol, maybe Tsunade didn't know Sasuke's potential which I doubt is the case considering Kakashi must have filled her in with details on Sasuke but okay let say she didn't know. But Sakura knew Sasuke's potential, why was she surprised seeing Sasuke in action and then why she didn't correct Tsunade when she hypothesized the reason behind Sasuke's growth. Okay lets disregard Sakura as well, why didn't Kakashi correct Sakura when she told that Sasuke took enhancement drugs. Surely Kakashi knew of Sasuke's potential, he a genius himself considered Sasuke a lot like him. There are so many holes in your theory that the obvious bias of a Sasuke fan is clearly showing.
Only Oro knew of Sasuke's potential lol while everyone else who knew him for years didn't. Really? That's your logic?
Really? He was disgusted about going to Orochimaru? Seemed as if he was more conflicted and dubious about doing so rather than merely disgusted by the notion.

You'd think so, except Orochimaru was completely aware of Sasuke's growth through Kabuto and was yet astonished by Sasuke's growth during these three years and affirmed that he was a genius because of it. It's evidently shown that no one had a full grasp of Sasuke's potential until after the Time-Skip occurred, so obviously Sakura who had no understanding of an Uchiha's potential would consider Sasuke's potential as inconceivable even though he is Indra's Transmigrant of all things.

Oh, but this is the most important part of the discussion. What kind of training did Oro give him that he improved so much. The same Sasuke with whom Naruto was keeping up while he was in the village and then he goes to Oro and suddenly there's a gap. If it was training as I explained he could've gained more staying in the village and training with Gai and Kakashi. So I am curious on what type of unique training Oro gave him.
It's honestly not.

What you're presenting is mere supposition while my opinion holds more credence in Orochimaru being a greater teacher simply because he has more to offer for Sasuke excluding drugs and shit which can only be administered by Kabuto.

It is, its kind of an enzyme I guess that Oro injected into Sasuke. And CM ofc did improve Sasuke's abilities beyond normal means lol. Your reasoning if flawed again. CM enables the user to use NE. Now compare Naruto in base mode with SM Naruto you'll have your answer, ofc CM is nowhere close to SM though. Well Ninjas train and grow to get stronger and CM made Sasuke stronger. It was a shortcut, just the thing he was looking for at the time.
Lol, this honestly a confounded argument because I have no idea how this is relevant to CM's relationship to any other drug.

So lets do the math again. While Sasuke and Naruto were in Konoha training under the same teacher, both of them were keeping up with each other. I guess Sasuke's natural abilities were sleeping at the time :rolleyes:. After that both go to train under a Sannin and then suddenly Sasuke comes out much stronger. When you say Oro as a sannin had a lot more to bring to the table you forget that Naruto was also training with a Sannin of equal caliber. So I didn't misinterpret anything its just that your arguments are flawed or biased.
Oro tempts Sasuke with powers like CM and then Sasuke just goes and trains under him...:lmao: yep that makes real sense...to a Sasuke fan ofc.
Yes, so simplistically, Sasuke was the greater genius at the time, undergoing significantly greater training that Naruto was who was grasping the basics. I'm confused as to why their rate of progressions have to be equivalent even though their power relationship fluctuates throughout the manga.

And the bold is the crux of this discussion. You simply fail to comprehend how different teachers and types of training can naturally induce greater growth and I've already provided evidence for it.

If you read the manga, you'd understand that the Cursed Seal was a means to give Sasuke a "taste" as to what Orochimaru has to offer. Just a fragment of that power was enough to tempt Sasuke into joining him. Of course, you're ignorant about everything regarding Sasuke, so why am I explaining this to you? :lol
 
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Darth AniCetuS

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I'm not going to address this because your argument is so convoluted and so far from what I was trying to convey in the first place.

Do you agree that training and your teacher is a factor in a shinobi's physical improvement? Yes or no, very simple question.
What's convoluted about it? Its just a simple comparison of how Naruto kept up with Sasuke.
Ofc, taining and your teacher is a factor but are you implying Jiraiya is an inferior teacher compared to Orochimaru?

Really? He was disgusted about going to Orochimaru? Seemed as if he was more conflicted and dubious about doing so rather than merely disgusted by the notion.

You'd think so, except Orochimaru was completely aware of Sasuke's growth through Kabuto and was yet astonished by Sasuke's growth during these three years and affirmed that he was a genius because of it. It's evidently shown that no one had a full grasp of Sasuke's potential until after the Time-Skip occurred, so obviously Sakura who had no understanding of an Uchiha's potential would consider Sasuke's potential as inconceivable even though he is Indra's Transmigrant of all things.
He was disgusted yet did it. If anyone then its Kakashi who'd understand Sasuke's true potential and he even knew about the MS. The reason why he focused more on his training. The guy knew how to take advantage of the sharingan best. But based on your logic Sasuke's shraingan should've improved by leaps and bounds but I don't see Sasuke's sharingan improving during the timeskip but only his physical attributes.
So let me ask again, what kind of unique training did Oro give which Sasuke couldn't have had in the village?

It's honestly not.

What you're presenting is mere supposition while my opinion holds more credence in Orochimaru being a greater teacher simply because he has more to offer for Sasuke excluding drugs and shit which can only be administered by Kabuto.
Oh but it is. You fail to explain how Oro trained him and reply with assumptions while ignoring the facts that are there.
Yep Oro tempts with powers like CM and then only trains him lol.

Lol, this honestly a confounded argument because I have no idea how this is relevant to CM's relationship to any other drug.confounded
Again you fail to understand. I was drawing the similarities between a drug and CM. And it has relevance when you consider that CM boosted Sasuke's powers beyond normal means. Same as what drugs would do.

Yes, so simplistically, Sasuke was the greater genius at the time, undergoing significantly greater training that Naruto was who was grasping the basics. I'm confused as to why their rate of progressions have to be equivalent even though their power relationship fluctuates throughout the manga.
Again you keep repeating the same shit while having no proof for it. True there rate of progression has fluctuated but not as much as early Part 2.

And the bold is the crux of this discussion. You simply fail to comprehend how different teachers and types of training can naturally induce greater growth and I've already provided evidence for it.
You keep talking about different trining but when I ask what kind of different training you simply deflect the question. So let me ask again. What type of training?

If you read the manga, you'd understand that the Cursed Seal was a means to give Sasuke a "taste" as to what Orochimaru has to offer. Just a fragment of that power was enough to tempt Sasuke into joining him. Of course, you're ignorant about everything regarding Sasuke, so why am I explaining this to you? :lol
@Bold: Exactly and that's what I've been saying this whole time. The type of training he had to offer.
Now you don't tempt a lion with meat and then feed him grass do you?....:hint:
Nope I am not ignorant but I am no Sasuke fap either.
 
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WalksInShadows

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Narutoads pretending like there was never a point in the war where Naruto got his battery refilled and didn't need anybody to rescue him lel
 
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