Make- up?

[Funky Tiger]

make up is for weak people, smear nordic warpaint and blood on your faces like true warriors sheeple smh

 

[Sagebee]

It's a poor woman's plastic operation

Lol I like this analogy

 

[Sagebee]

not really... i mean ppl don't work out for lack of self confidence but 9/10 they weren't satisfied with the capabilities of their body prior to their training regiment.

Isn't that self confidence then you see something wrong with yourself and want to fix it

 

[Sagebee]

It's a colloquialism for grooming. If you comb your hair before going out is it because you are insecure about your physical appearance? Make-up may hide some skin blemishes and wrinkles, but that's it - not enough to placate any deep emotional self-esteem issues. It is a form of grooming and hygiene that is cultural for a lot of women; it is not a mask.

Well kind of you care not to be seen with messy hair

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

Not a fan of makeup at all. Ever since I stumbled across a drastic makeup transformation video, I've become very conscious of how much of it a woman is wearing.
I'm all for labeling makeup as false advertisement.
Many women change the shape of their nose, cheekbones, and whatnot. Pretty sure it's called contouring. So not right.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Isn't that self confidence then you see something wrong with yourself and want to fix it

No it isn't. Self confidence is gauging your own abilities and acting accordingly, whereas according to him makeup is worn to improve low self esteem/confidence.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Isn't that self confidence then you see something wrong with yourself and want to fix it

no. ten char

 

[shelke]

Many will tell you it's art. That is the biggest lie that there can be. This isn't Kabuki theater or theatrical performance in general. Or, maybe it is in the context of hood-winking people.

Make-up is a form of self-care and hygiene for many women, so I would say it was a reasonable comparison. Not every human needs exercise anyway; many people have not exercised and continued to exist.

A self-created criteria, so, it isn't a fit comparison to begin with. Makeup actually causes a lot of skin issues as well. Let's not go there.

People absolutely need some kind of physical activity for a good living. A person can "exist" whilst in the acute state of Alzheimer's as well. That would be merely "existing." And that's just one example of how people can be simply there, without actually living.

 

[Amenotejikara]

depends. there are definitely some females who are hot with make up and butt ugly without it.

 

[Callypigia]

Many will tell you it's art. That is the biggest lie that there can be. This isn't Kabuki theater or theatrical performance in general. Or, maybe it is in the context of hood-winking people.



A self-created criteria, so, it isn't a fit comparison to begin with. Makeup actually causes a lot of skin issues as well. Let's not go there.

People absolutely need some kind of physical activity for a good living. A person can "exist" whilst in the acute state of Alzheimer's as well. That would be merely "existing." And that's just one example of how people can be simply there, without actually living.

Your concept of living is based on self-created criteria.

 

[shelke]

Your concept of living is based on self-created criteria.

Repeating after me like a parrot isn't helping your flimsy argument when "living" and "existing" are two totally different things. Calling makeup "hygine" is also such a foolish notion. Perhaps, you should use your words carefully. That "colloquialism's" use on the previous page was absolutely ridiculous.

These sentences are contradictory, or at least because of the way you worded the bold. And it has plenty to do with low self esteem, whether or not that's the reason you do it, lots of women use it to hide behind it more so than they do to just look a little better.

Pretty much this.

Typical words games, to be honest. There is no denying this fact that women use it to hide behind a "manufactured" facade.

 

[Callypigia]

Repeating after me like a parrot isn't helping your flimsy argument when "living" and "existing" are two totally different things. Calling makeup "hygine" is also such a foolish notion. Perhaps, you should use your words carefully. That "colloquialism's" use on the previous page was absolutely ridiculous.

You're right, hygiene (not "hygine;" this forum has a spellchecker- use it.) probably was not the best word to use. The response was hastily written in between clients, and I meant to say that make-up is a form self-care and grooming, which is correlated more with positive self-esteem than negative self-esteem. And no, "fixing" oneself up is not absolutely ridiculous; it is a local saying where I live akin to "getting ready." It would be asinine to think that getting ready for work or a social event would be indicative of low self-esteem.

That said my argument regarding living is not flimsy; I used the word exist because he said "every human needs" exercise. Need implies without it you will cease to exist - assuming exercise is essential like water, food, and oxygen. Exercise is a form of self-care similar to grooming and life is not dependent on it. To define exercise as an essential need is inane. You said, "people absolutely need some kind of physical activity for a good living,"--and like your phrase that I turned back to you, that is just your schema. You never defined what "good living" is, which limited my response. Were you implying that it makes you more moral? Or that it gives more meaning/purpose? Maybe you just believe it is healthier. Either way that is your opinion, and physical activity may be "good living" for you, but not every one is you. You're implying that someone like Steven Hawking isn't living good; maybe he is or isn't, but that's not your call-it's his. I support my clients who engage in physical exercise, but for those who are endomorphic or even ectomorphic, that absolutely hate it, I am not going to force my values onto them.

The concept of living is subjective and the concept of existing is objective. Someone with dementia is definitely existing (like you said), but your assuming they aren't living (I'm guessing now your saying living means enjoying life or experiencing life?) based on your worldview. Studies find that that is not true either. There is some great research on how those with dementia can have a total affect change when introduced to certain stimuli (i.e., music from their childhood, old family pictures, or even the presence of particular people). Even in extreme cases where the person is in a vegetative state we cannot determine their level of happiness/contentment.

OT: So I have found no studies that link (or even correlate) make up to low self-esteem. If you find one please send it to me so I can begin addressing all my clients who wear make-up for poor self-image. For most it is just a gender-specific (but not always) cultural form of grooming like showering, brushing teeth, using deodorant, and combing hair. It boils down to personal preference. A lack of grooming can be an indication of depression, but only if that person is ignoring their typical grooming regimen.

 

[shelke]

You're right, hygiene (not "hygine;" this forum has a spellchecker- use it.) probably was not the best word to use. The response was hastily written in between clients, and I meant to say that make-up is a form self-care and grooming, which is correlated more with positive self-esteem than negative self-esteem. And no, "fixing" oneself up is not absolutely ridiculous; it is a local saying where I live akin to "getting ready." It would be asinine to think that getting ready for work or a social event would be indicative of low self-esteem.

That said my argument regarding living is not flimsy; I used the word exist because he said "every human needs" exercise. Need implies without it you will cease to exist - assuming exercise is essential like water, food, and oxygen. Exercise is a form of self-care similar to grooming and life is not dependent on it. To define exercise as an essential need is inane. You said, "people absolutely need some kind of physical activity for a good living,"--and like your phrase that I turned back to you, that is just your schema. You never defined what "good living" is, which limited my response. Were you implying that it makes you more moral? Or that it gives more meaning/purpose? Maybe you just believe it is healthier. Either way that is your opinion, and physical activity may be "good living" for you, but not every one is you. You're implying that someone like Steven Hawking isn't living good; maybe he is or isn't, but that's not your call-it's his. I support my clients who engage in physical exercise, but for those who are endomorphic or even ectomorphic, that absolutely hate it, I am not going to force my values onto them.

The concept of living is subjective and the concept of existing is objective. Someone with dementia is definitely existing (like you said), but your assuming they aren't living (I'm guessing now your saying living means enjoying life or experiencing life?) based on your worldview. Studies find that that is not true either. There is some great research on how those with dementia can have a total affect change when introduced to certain stimuli (i.e., music from their childhood, old family pictures, or even the presence of particular people). Even in extreme cases where the person is in a vegetative state we cannot determine their level of happiness/contentment.

OT: So I have found no studies that link (or even correlate) make up to low self-esteem. If you find one please send it to me so I can begin addressing all my clients who wear make-up for poor self-image. For most it is just a gender-specific (but not always) cultural form of grooming like showering, brushing teeth, using deodorant, and combing hair. It boils down to personal preference. A lack of grooming can be an indication of depression, but only if that person is ignoring their typical grooming regimen.

Kindly, don't start your argument by correcting slips of tongues (an encompassing concept) as I missed one 'e'. It gives it a hilarious spin. Otherwise, I can play that game as well, and then we'll be here all day.

Self-care and grooming, again, are slippery slopes. Make-up enhances appearance. How are you putting it under the umbrella of these two terms? Also, you are basically admitting that make-up (re)enforces positive self-esteem? We'll get to the negative self-esteem later.

A "need" is something that is essential and required. It by no means implies that people might cease to exist if it isn't met. It's more of a loose term that depends upon the context at hand. Allocating exercising to grooming seems odd to me when a human body requires exercise for a healthy living. Unless you are suggesting that we should move all aspects of healthy living under grooming, then it's such a nonsensical stance to take. Also, you can put grooming under self-care (provided the context), but both terms are not as widely interrelated as you are making it seem like.

Schema? What are you going on about? Keep this discussion simple. Unless, you do want to proceed onto the schematic research, which will have nothing to do with makeup given the context. It isn't about what I believe, it is what is objectively correct. Exercise of some kind or a good "physical activity" is a "need" for healthy living given how the body has adapted itself to store extra fat over the ages. Not engaging in one results in a plethora of health troubles in later years. To deny this from an objective viewpoint is silly.

Let me ask you a question; would you exchange your "living" with Hawking's "existing"? Be honest. It isn't about belief at all, but basic facts. What do you picture when I ask you to visualize a "healthy human being"? Also, how did you assume I meant what you implied? And try to reply to these questions in a less round-about and arbitrary fashion.

No, don't flip-flop and tread into the domain of philosophy. We are not talking about some kind of existential crisis here, but the problems of associating forms of esteem with makeup. Come on! Living is a different term than existing. That's it. There is no "deeper" discussion to be had over merits of exercising.

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Makeup itself is the greatest promoter of low self-esteem.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

it really depends. in the end we all lack confidence and we dont always have the highest self esteem, female or male

but its really just a beauty enhancer. some people go overboard with it imo but beauty is the eyes of the beholder. and if someone feels they need a lot. i blame this brutal, sexist and judgemental world, not a personality flaw or weakness

 

[Melodious]

Why is this being read into so deeply, there's no formula... We wear makeup because we can? It doesn't have to be about insecurity or making us "more beautiful." Everyone has their reasons. For starters, it's fun as hell. But if it is used to boost self-confidence, aight. If it's used to cover up blemishes, aight. Why should it matter, why should it concern anyone else? Wearing makeup doesn't equate to beauty, neither does not wearing makeup. The dudes who say "makeup is deceiving!!!1" are the Nice Guys™ who freak tf out when they see a bare face and say, "take her swimming on the first date." And I don't think this has come up, but nothing irks me more than when men say that women wear makeup to impress them because 1. who are you? 2. we do not. You wear makeup? Great! You don't wear makeup? Great! POINT IS, why can't we mind our own business and let others do as they please?

 

[Callypigia]

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Makeup itself is the greatest promoter of low self-esteem.

According to the articles you sent me marketing is the greatest promoter of low self-esteem.

The primary point of the journal articles was on how marketing affects desire to buy cosmetic products and cultural expectations of beauty impact a woman's self-esteem. One study even states: "The study found no correlation between self-esteem and an individual’s particular cosmetic usage, habits, and beliefs." The main evidence to support your point were referenced journals within the research section regarding adolescents. I won't argue that with adolescents; most teenagers of any gender are very self-conscious. It's a part of their developmental stage as they form identity, differentiate, and become more self-aware. Like I said earlier, make-up may hide some skin blemishes and wrinkles, but that's it - not enough to placate any deep emotional self-esteem issues. There may be statistic outliers with significant scarring from burns or severe acne that do use it to boost their confidence, but if you want to know what the average woman thinks, just read what most the women on this forum are saying.

 

[Оdin]

Why is this being read into so deeply, there's no formula... We wear makeup because we can? It doesn't have to be about insecurity or making us "more beautiful." Everyone has their reasons. For starters, it's fun as hell. But if it is used to boost self-confidence, aight. If it's used to cover up blemishes, aight. Why should it matter, why should it concern anyone else? Wearing makeup doesn't equate to beauty, neither does not wearing makeup. The dudes who say "makeup is deceiving!!!1" are the Nice Guys™ who freak tf out when they see a bare face and say, "take her swimming on the first date." And I don't think this has come up, but nothing irks me more than when men say that women wear makeup to impress them because 1. who are you? 2. we do not. You wear makeup? Great! You don't wear makeup? Great! POINT IS, why can't we mind our own business and let others do as they please?

Generally speaking...

Everything you do to change your outward appearance is done for others. You can lie to yourself all you want to convince yourself that any changes you do to your image is only for you, but in reality it all boils down to you wanting to look good for others. Humans are social creatures so what other people think of our face/body matters greatly, whether you would like to admit to that or not.

And if you aren't trying to impress men then am I in the wrong to assume you're trying to impress other women? You play for that team? Because we're all trying to impress someone in one way or another, there's no escaping it. That is basic human nature right there.

If makeup was taboo rather than a seemingly forced social norm, you would go along with hating it rather than defending it in such a false way.

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[shelke]

According to the articles you sent me marketing is the greatest promoter of low self-esteem.

The primary point of the journal articles was on how marketing affects desire to buy cosmetic products and cultural expectations of beauty impact a woman's self-esteem. One study even states: "The study found no correlation between self-esteem and an individual’s particular cosmetic usage, habits, and beliefs." The main evidence to support your point were referenced journals within the research section regarding adolescents. I won't argue that with adolescents; most teenagers of any gender are very self-conscious. It's a part of their developmental stage as they form identity, differentiate, and become more self-aware. Like I said earlier, make-up may hide some skin blemishes and wrinkles, but that's it - not enough to placate any deep emotional self-esteem issues. There may be statistic outliers with significant scarring from burns or severe acne that do use it to boost their confidence, but if you want to know what the average woman thinks, just read what most the women on this forum are saying.

So, that's all you cherry-picked from the entire post? Regardless, women on this forum? How many are there? To assume that I should value the opinions of a handful number of people over survey's isn't how this should proceed. Furthermore, treating teenagers as some kind of redundant variables that need to be discarded is going off a tangent, if anything. Where is your proof that such factors are dropped in adulthood when the issue of "self-esteem" and "boosting" it are involved?

 

[Haochi]

Just do it cuz we enjoy it; like how guys work out and get abs they weren't exactly born with

 

[Оdin]

So, that's all you cherry-picked from the entire post? Regardless, women on this forum? How many are there? To assume that I should value the opinions of a handful number of people over survey's isn't how this should proceed. Furthermore, treating teenagers as some kind of redundant variables that need to be discarded is going off a tangent, if anything. Where is your proof that such factors are dropped in adulthood when the issue of "self-esteem" and "boosting" it are involved?

Trash-tier arguments.

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There's a lot of females and "females" in NB... I'll send you all their links.

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