Orochimaru vs Minato

[KidGamer65]

I considered the possibility of that being electricity too. However, the shapes are different. Wheneven electricity is illustrated there's sharp edges present on both ends, like a mini thunder bolts. The top panel is indeed electrical currents from Ay. But near the kunia we see three small particales, two round shaped particles and one shaped like wood of some sort Exactly like shown here

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Maybe I'm reading too much into, but that's how I see it.

Those are all drawn pitch black. What I just posted isn't. It's pretty obvious and clear that the only way Minato's Kunai reached above Ay's head is because he threw it above his head at an angle.

 

[blazekev90]

Yes, I am sure Kishimoto sat down and said, "I'm going to make 3 little dash marks around the Kunai to show some debris, that way the super-attentive reader could one day argue that a gust of wind moved a heavy kunai multiple feet through the air." Use some common sense, moron.

Contextual evidence and common sense dictates Minato threw that kunai because (1) It's not coincidence the kunai happened to appear in the exact strategic location Minato needed for his counter attack (2) Assuming Minato didn't throw it, it would have been driven into the dirt by Ay's movements directly forward and into it (3) If a "gust of wind" was capable of propelling that heavy kunai multiple feet into the air in the OPPOSITE direction of the incoming force, that "debris" you're so fond of citing wouldn't have been anywhere close to that kunai; since it's far lighter, it would have been sent multiple feet ahead of it. Yet you're arguing that it traveled the same distance and same speed as the far heavier kunai, despite being lighter.

You're essentially arguing that a gust of wind somehow kicked up and moved a heavy kunai to the right and around Ay's body, while simultaneously going upwards.

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Needed to counterattack? Whether the kunia was tossed or on the ground Minato would've been able reappear in the location to counterattack regardless of.

@ bold So, you're telling me a tossed kunia by the flick of a wrist has more driven force than Ay's speed?

Hmmmm. Ok, part 3 I agree with. The force driven from Ay should've blown everything forward.

 

[blazekev90]

That's Orochimaru in his true form, not in a host body. Try again. Not to mention "I can not be destroyed" is a false statement as he he already admitted that KN4's Bijuu Dama would've killed him. There is no sentence here that specifies "physical attacks" so why are you acting like it does?



Yes, Orochimaru is "immortal" because he can change bodies, thus circumventing the fact he can die of old age. The bold is something you literally made up. Can we not do this?


Already addressed, nor does this make any sense and even if it did, it doesn't matter. If his body dies, and his spirit lives it doesn't matter because in terms of the fight he's done. Not to mention by this logic Bijuu Dama would kill his body but his soul would live on. Makes zero sense. Orochimaru is immortal because he can live forever by changing bodies every 3 years. That is the explanation anyone who isn't trying to glorify their favorite character would come up with after reading or watching the Manga or Anime.




You've literally explained nothing. You did what you do best. Twist what the Manga says to benefit your argument. Manga states that Orochimaru can be killed. Manga states that his immortality comes from the fact that he can switch bodies, not from the fact he is unable to be killed.

Consider the context in which he states "he can't be destroyed" and "those insignificant jutsu can't kill me". Sasuke was using kenjutsu to try to kill him. That method of trying to destroy him isimpossible. If it was restricted to his true form, he would've said "you cannot in form" of hinted to the fact that in that form invulnerable to those attacks because of that form.

TBB, mass chakra=/kenjutsu.

 

[KidGamer65]

Consider the context in which he states "he can't be destroyed" and "those insignificant jutsu can't kill me". Sasuke was using kenjutsu to try to kill him. That method of trying to destroy him isimpossible. If it was restricted to his true form, he would've said "you cannot in form" of hinted to the fact that in that form invulnerable to those attacks because of that form.

TBB, mass chakra=/kenjutsu.

Yes. In his true form. The bold makes no sense and is you reaching again. All his statements are to be held to the context they were said in. If Orochimaru in his true form after discarding his host body says "those insignificant jutsu can't kill me", then that statement applies for the form he said it in just how you have to apply the context for "he can't be destroyed".


All this debating about ridiculous topics and Orochimaru hasn't come closer to winning. Minato can force him to use Oral Rebirth with every strike, thus using up his chakra. Orochimaru can't touch Minato. He doesn't win this match.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Ok. Doesn't change much anyway. Just ignore the first sentence or two of the post.

Alright. I'll try and get back to you after work depending on my plans for the evening. What's are you and blazekev debating? I've never heard about a gust of wind coming up during a debate on that feat

 

[blazekev90]

Yes. In his true form. The bold makes no sense and is you reaching again. All his statements are to be held to the context they were said in. If Orochimaru in his true form after discarding his host body says "those insignificant jutsu can't kill me", then that statement applies for the form he said it in just how you have to apply the context for "he can't be destroyed".


All this debating about ridiculous topics and Orochimaru hasn't come closer to winning. Minato can force him to use Oral Rebirth with every strike, thus using up his chakra. Orochimaru can't touch Orochimaru. He doesn't win this match.

Fine. True form, it applies.

Minato hand speed has reacted to and intercepted in most, if not every occasion. Any straightforward attack anticipated, along with the ability of sensing. Kunia are deflected, preferably blown away before they reach proximity. Both utilizes clones, however Zetsu are more durable. If Minato were to engage in CQC with any of them, they Use spores to place on him. He most reliable counter for Edo would be DRS. If push comes to shove, his true form paralyzes him.

 

[KidGamer65]

Alright. I'll try and get back to you after work depending on my plans for the evening. What's are you and blazekev debating? I've never heard about a gust of wind coming up during a debate on that feat

He was saying that a gust of wind blew Minato's Kunai from his hand to above Ay's head instead of him throwing it. Pretty sure he's dropped that argument now though.

Fine. True form, it applies.

Minato hand speed has reacted to and intercepted in most, if not every occasion. Any straightforward attack anticipated, along with the ability of sensing. Kunia are deflected, preferably blown away before they reach proximity. Both utilizes clones, however Zetsu are more durable. If Minato were to engage in CQC with any of them, they Use spores to place on him. He most reliable counter for Edo would be DRS. If push comes to shove, his true form paralyzes him.

Those people aren't Orochimaru. They are people far faster than Orochimaru. Citing those feats don't help you.

-He deflects Kunai then Minato simply throws more. Or he closes the distance and marks him without using Kunai.
-If Minato's clones engage Zetsu clones in CQC then Rasengan one shots. Spores can be warped away once they manifest or he can warp out of them, whichever works better.
-Minato has Hakke Fuuin, so Shiki Fujin isn't necessary. Not to mention defeating Orochimaru makes his zombies useless.
-If he calls his true form he gets sealed away or crushed with Food Cart Destroyer, thus ending the fight.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Oh ok, I was about to say. He barely reacted but there weren't any outside factors affecting the Kunai

 

[blazekev90]

He was saying that a gust of wind blew Minato's Kunai from his hand to above Ay's head instead of him throwing it. Pretty sure he's dropped that argument now though.



Those people aren't Orochimaru. They are people far faster than Orochimaru. Citing those feats don't help you.

-He deflects Kunai then Minato simply throws more. Or he closes the distance and marks him without using Kunai.
-If Minato's clones engage Zetsu clones in CQC then Rasengan one shots. Spores can be warped away once they manifest or he can warp out of them, whichever works better.
-Minato has Hakke Fuuin, so Shiki Fujin isn't necessary. Not to mention defeating Orochimaru makes his zombies useless.
-If he calls his true form he gets sealed away or crushed with Food Cart Destroyer, thus ending the fight.

Didn't drop it. It become too much of a distraction. Also, addressing that topic with Booker.

They don't need to be Orochimaru, especially when they lack the sensing about to sense him whereabouts. Bee's tentacle intercepted Minato's attack after using ftg.

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Are you telling Orochimaru, while antipanting him movements can't?! Lol

Nothing stops him from deflects every thrown Kunia. Also, his style normally has him spread them cross the battlefield with one at hand. So idk how many kunia you think he's tossing directly at Orochimaru.

Rasengan is still close range. They'd still be placed. This process of wrapping them away won't be easy as they'd be attached to him, absorbing chakra. Otherwise, he'd be forced to jump. Also, what stops them from turning into hydra?

The seal pretty much requires the opponent to be compliant. There's no way seal would work with the number of opponents present on the battlefield.

Seal? On approach, those snakes scales attack. FCD is used for larger targets dropping from such a height magnitude. He evades it easily.

 

[KidGamer65]

Didn't drop it. It become too much of a distraction. Also, addressing that topic with Booker.

They don't need to be Orochimaru, especially when they lack the sensing about to sense him whereabouts. Bee's tentacle intercepted Minato's attack after using ftg.

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Are you telling Orochimaru, while antipanting him movements can't?! Lol

Nothing stops him from deflects every thrown Kunia. Also, his style normally has him spread them cross the battlefield with one at hand. So idk how many kunia you think he's tossing directly at Orochimaru.

Rasengan is still close range. They'd still be placed. This process of wrapping them away won't be easy as they'd be attached to him, absorbing chakra. Otherwise, he'd be forced to jump. Also, what stops them from turning into hydra?

The seal pretty much requires the opponent to be compliant. There's no way seal would work with the number of opponents present on the battlefield.

Seal? On approach, those snakes scales attack. FCD is used for larger targets dropping from such a height magnitude. He evades it easily.

B isn't Orochimaru. B is far faster than Orochimaru. B's tentacle isn't Orochimaru's attacks either. So unless you are going to prove that he can strike faster than that don't bother bringing other people's feats into the fold. Then we have the fact that Minato took more time to strike so he could gather the strength to try and break Ay's armor as evidenced by his strike being heavy enough to cut B's tentacle and leave a small crater.

No, Minato has never spread all his Kunai like that besides the battle with Ay. I've already explained why your deflection strategy is terrible.

Whether or not they are placed in the first place doesn't matter because he can warp. Them being attached to him is irrelevant. No reason why he wouldn't be able to warp them as he can warp anything that is touching him or his chakra. And the fact that Zetsu clones are fodder is why they can't use his strongest technique.

:lol Was Kurama compliant when Minato sealed him into Naruto? Clearly not. The only way the seal fails is if they can stop it, but they can't.

How does Orochimaru's snake scales prevent him from being sealed? Attacking doesn't matter unless you are going to argue said attack hits Minato, which it doesn't. And Orochimaru being able to avoid FCD in his true form is of course based on nothing. The magnitude doesn't need to be super high, it only has be summoned above said target.

 

[blazekev90]

B isn't Orochimaru. B is far faster than Orochimaru. B's tentacle isn't Orochimaru's attacks either. So unless you are going to prove that he can strike faster than that don't bother bringing other people's feats into the fold. Then we have the fact that Minato took more time to strike so he could gather the strength to try and break Ay's armor as evidenced by his strike being heavy enough to cut B's tentacle and leave a small crater.

No, Minato has never spread all his Kunai like that besides the battle with Ay. I've already explained why your deflection strategy is terrible.

Whether or not they are placed in the first place doesn't matter because he can warp. Them being attached to him is irrelevant. No reason why he wouldn't be able to warp them as he can warp anything that is touching him or his chakra. And the fact that Zetsu clones are fodder is why they can't use his strongest technique.

:lol Was Kurama compliant when Minato sealed him into Naruto? Clearly not. The only way the seal fails is if they can stop it, but they can't.

How does Orochimaru's snake scales prevent him from being sealed? Attacking doesn't matter unless you are going to argue said attack hits Minato, which it doesn't. And Orochimaru being able to avoid FCD in his true form is of course based on nothing. The magnitude doesn't need to be super high, it only has be summoned above said target.

What's this "far faster" statement based on?! Bee's tentacles have no speed feats whatsoever. Prove Minato paused to gather his strength? Otherwise, that's all assumption.

Deflection isn't a terrible argument nor is using futuuon techniques.

They can manifest strategically. If at any point Minato posses to threaten Orochimaru, they can appear, hindering him striking and forcing to him use ftg. Nope. Nothing proves they can't transform in Hydra. These aren't simple Zetsu clones mimicking Orochimaru, these are clones he's utilizing. Prove to me that can't use the technique.

The Kurama was restrained by chakra chains...so what's Minato doing that'll prevent 3+ opponents from intervening?!

Snakes are capable of traveling underground. Why wouldn't he be capable of doing that in his true form? It doesn't require hand seals.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I'm actually surprised FTG plantation is being factored here. And surprised by weak counters for people arguing against it.

It really simple. Orochimaru can produce more snakes then Minato can ever plant with Kunai's by feats at least. Add the fact that they can simply track them all and have them reverse summon, after gulping them all off the field. Minato is only limited to Kunai's he can hold for this match.

Dont even know why you added P1 Edo's as they suppose to be some type of factors. Unless you believe Part 2 scaling of their limited jutsus, in Part 1, can be apply to them, then yeah they can be huge difference.

The match either ends with Minato sealing him away or Orochimaru's, true form, poisons effects Minato for taking too long kill him.

 

[KidGamer65]

What's this "far faster" statement based on?! Bee's tentacles have no speed feats whatsoever. Prove Minato paused to gather his strength? Otherwise, that's all assumption.

Deflection isn't a terrible argument nor is using futuuon techniques.

They can manifest strategically. If at any point Minato posses to threaten Orochimaru, they can appear, hindering him striking and forcing to him use ftg. Nope. Nothing proves they can't transform in Hydra. These aren't simple Zetsu clones mimicking Orochimaru, these are clones he's utilizing. Prove to me that can't use the technique.

The Kurama was restrained by chakra chains...so what's Minato doing that'll prevent 3+ opponents from intervening?!

Snakes are capable of traveling underground. Why wouldn't he be capable of doing that in his true form? It doesn't require hand seals.

Intercepting Minato is a speed feat. Orochimaru isn't B nor can you show a speed feat on par with any of B's other feats so why would Orochimaru get B's feats? :lol. And the pause is blatantly shown in the Manga. He put his hand behind his Kunai and then struck instead of just striking, and I explained why his strike was heavier than normal.

Yes it is. Because Minato can throw Kunai faster than he can deflect them with Fuuton, and there is no other method he has to deflect them without letting them come close in the first place.

They are clones made from Zetsu's spores, which have shown to be weak. If you want to argue that they can use all of Orochimaru's jutsu at original strength despite them never being hinted to have that capability then support it with evidence and not assumptions. And your strategy is pointless. The spores can't manifest and then stop Minato from striking fast enough while he's already in mid strike, and if they appear before that then Minato simply warps out of them or warps them away.

Minato has clones. 1 for each person. 2 can seal Edos and the original can take on Orochimaru.

That's not evidence he can evade Food Cart Destroyer. That's evidence he can burrow underground, but can he do that fast enough to avoid a toad being instantly summoned on top of him? No. Not when combined with Minato's own natural speed and/or Hiraishin.

-Minato Shunshins above Orochimaru.
-Drops a toad on him w/ FCD.

OR

-Minato throws a Kunai and warps above Oro.
-Drops a toad on him w/ FCD.

 

[LoZelda101]

Orochimaru is a character symbolizes failure, whom lost to a 13 year old. He gets fodderized like the fodder he is. Minato low diff.

yet couldn't kill a 14yr old with just one sharingan.

 

[PhantomSage]

Orochimaru takes this.

--Rasengan and slashes are tanked or Oral rebirth'd
--If Minato scratches Yamata he's poisoned

 

[shelke]

Orochimaru wins handily. Minato's SM is a 5-second affair and the sage frog summons are fan-fiction as it requires a special summoning procedure.

Futon deflects Minato's poor throws away. Orochimaru can withstand any slashes like he did with Naruto's tailed-beast form. With a Zetsu body, the guy can outlast him easily. Manda is a far better summon than Bunta. So, he's even defeated there.

Rasengan will require close proximity and Snake summons can deal with that.