KidGamer65
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1. Naturally.
2A. Not an ability chakra sensors have. :lol
2B. This one is good.
2C. If this is Zetsu Oro then I already know he can sense via Zetsu's abilities.
Orochimaru vs Minato
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2A. Not an ability chakra sensors have. :lol
2B. This one is good.
2C. If this is Zetsu Oro then I already know he can sense via Zetsu's abilities.
blazekev90
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Honestly I don't know why I'm still addressing this "decapitation" argument. What you're trying to do is apply real life logic here in order to support your argument, which still fails. The fact is, if a snake gets any section of it's body cut off it will die. The exception to this is if the tail gets cut off, but this has to be behind the cloaca (**** vent). We've already seen Orochimaru reattach his body after being cut in half. This cant be explained by real life logic, yet you're making this claim that decapitation ends this?! Get real, where's the proof or statements supporting this claim.
Also, even when a snakes head it removed, it's still a threat, as it can still bite, and still pose a venomous threat. Similarly, after being sliced up completely, Orochimaru still posed a venomous threat to Sasuke after being perceived dead. You provide that scan to illustrate the locations in which Sasuke cut down Orochimaru, but we clearly see the structure of his true form. It consist of tiny snakes, heads NOT revealed.
No, if he runs outta chakra, it's a single death. Physical damage only threatens the host body. When it host body completely rejects Orochimaru aka dies, than he's forced into his true form.
Your mentioning of Naruto blocking Madara in order to provide proof of superior reflexes down the latter is irrelevant. 1) the scan clearly has the 1st Hokage ordering them to BLOCK. Why do anything differently? You're adding context to a scan isn't illustrated. 2) as I said, reflexes is secondary, when you can predict your opponents whereabouts and counteract. Sasuke did this against Ay, as plenty others have.
Sensing is irrelevant. But even than, snakes are present to sense for him if we want to get technical.
Superior reflexes over Itachi?! What gives you that impression?! Lol his use of ftg, which ONLY requires mental preparation?! Itachi has shown superior reflexes and hand speed. You mention foot speed, but that can't deciphered. Minato and Obito ran at one another head on!! Nothing illustrated superior foot speed on Minato's behalf.
I don't think you understand the different concepts of snake shielding. One is simply, appearing and trying to counteract the oncoming attack. The seconds, shields Orochimaru completely, thus allowing Orochimaru to use that time to either utilize clones or hide like a mole.
What counters 10,000 snakes?
2A. That wasn't a Shadow Clone, so sensors can sense it.
2C. It was right after Oro vs KN4 fight, so at that time he didn't have Hashirama cells.
And yes, this is Zetsu Orochimaru. It's stated in conditions.
blazekev90
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Numerous propositions? What were they? Lol
-He has no counter for the first Hokages genjutsu.
-no counter to Orochimaru's poison once in true form, seeing he's relies on close range combat.
-similarly to the Orochimaru argument, outlast him.
If ftg/marked kunia are out of the equation, curse mark ends it but that subjective.
KidGamer65
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Yes, we've seen that Orochimaru can escape bisection. Not decapitation. So unless you are going to provide a real reason for why he can survive getting his head taken off his shoulders you are wrong and will continue to remain wrong.
Orochimaru isn't a snake. :lol He's a human with snake like abilities. In his true form he's a snake, but not in his human form. So why are you applying snake's characteristics to him? In his true form this line of argumentation would make sense, but in his human form? Nope.
100% you made this up. Physical damage threatens Orochimaru period. The only way he escapes death is if he escapes his host body before it dies as shown when he sacrificed his host body to perform the Shiki Fujin Unseal to revive the 4 Hokage. The host body rejecting Orochimaru isn't him dying, it's the host body rejecting him. Not sure why you are trying to make it into more than what it actually is when you have no evidence for your claims.
1. Can we not make stuff up? Hashirama didn't tell anyone to block. :lol Naruto's goal is to defeat Madara. Madara rushed at Naruto and Naruto couldn't even make a good enough guard to not get knocked on his ass. That's not a good reaction. That's him barely managing. Meaning Madara, slower than Minato and Tobirama, is fast enough to force someone who is faster than Orochimaru to block. No dodging.
And Naruto's reflexes are superior because of the feats I listed under that. Obviously not the Madara feat. :lol Read.
2. And no, reflexes are not and will never be secondary when it comes to raw movement speed. You saying "you can predict your opponents moves and whereabouts" isn't an argument for Oro being able to do the same.
No, sensing increases reaction speed. SM Naruto has better feats and far better sensing. There is no area where Orochimaru matches him in reaction speed.
I'll wait for you to provide Shunshin feats above what Madara did to Naruto and reaction feats superior to Minato reacting to Ay's top speed from 10m away with a Kunai flick and then Hiraishin if you think Itachi is superior.
If you are referring to what Sasuke did against Itachi to block his Kunai then no, he gets no opening to perform any of those Ninjutsu. Making a shield of snakes around himself only lets Minato tag them and then teleport to Orochimaru. If they try to counter his incoming attack he dodges them and goes straight for Orochimaru's body. Whether it be w/ Hiraishin or Shunshin.
He literally just dodges it. Or Gamabunta flattens them.
You're a big boy. Read it yourself.
- He does. BOD isn't a traditional genjutsu. Genjutsu works by
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naturally, but this wasn't the case with Hiruzen who was able to sniff out his opposition. Minato, being a sensor, should be able to sense there whereabouts just fine. - True form Oro gets FCD right on top of his head. Besides, that paralysis is only relevant if you inhale his poison. Hiraishin lets Minato teleport in and out of range in literally split seconds.
- He isn't outlasting a guy who was able to learn SM, telling us how large his reserves are and not when his fighting style is extremely conservative. Oro on the other hand fights the complete opposite with both oral rebirth and boss summonings being stated to consume a load of chakra.
Edit - Turns out I was right. BOD isn't your traditional genjutsu as it not only targets one of the senses, but the second databook reportedly drops the genjutsu part.
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KidGamer65
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Cool. The wiki states the databook doesn't refer to it as a genjutsu. Regardless, it isn't a traditional genjutsu in that it targets only one of the five senses as we can see from its manga usage.
blazekev90
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So he can survive bisection but can't survive decapitation? lol he's already proven that law of physics don't apply to him after surviving what should've killed him, without shedding his skin. You have no way of proving this claim, yet you're using it as determining factor for the outcome. Lol. I'm not wrong unless you have proof to debunk my statements. Until than, we might as well leave this desperate claim alone.
Snake or human form, tell me when snake characteristics haven't applied?! lol I'll wait.....and what's preventing him from entering his true form?!
The process of Rejection means the body is dying and no longer withstand the technique.one reason he wanted Sasuke as his host. Yes, before the host body dies, Orochimaru flees from that body. However, sealing/=physical damage. There's instant moment where Minato can pose a serious offensively that Orochimaru host can't withstand. Also, never said physical attacks don't damage Orochimaru, I said they don't kill him. Unless it's a TBb of course.
1)Making stuff up?
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"Block, block" appears BEFORE Madara makes his first step.
2)How isn't predicting Minato whereabouts assisting Orochimaru?! If he knows when and how he'll approach, he'll dish out an offensive attack to counterattack. What's so hard to understand?
Just noticed this was Zetsu Orochimaru...do we need to continue this discussion of sensing? Lol
Minato leaving a kunia behind after using ftg isn't physical reaction. People always read too deep into that scan. Lol
Interesting. Tagging snakes=tagging Orochimaru?
He can't dodge, unless he has flight ability. Throwing kunia to teleport is countered by Orochimaru. There is no dodging of this attack. Gama might be a good counter, this chakra consumption tho
blazekev90
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Sensing whereabouts. That's is. But even than, I believe he has to place his finger on the ground. He won't be able to sense oncoming attacks. Also, given this is Zetsu Orochimaru, sensing may very be irrelevant as Zetsu can't be sensed
That's a cute scenario. Minato without intel would no reason to teleport in and out of range if he believes his opponent is dead.
Yet we've witness him low of chakra. Lol his ability to use SM temporarily means nothing. Boss summoning are only used to match toads. Both parties would use chakra. Oral Rebirth is subjective, some damage can simply be regenerated.
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KidGamer65
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Since when was bisection the same as decapitation? :lol Get evidence for Oro being able to survive decapitation and then you'll have a point. Until then you are merely doing what you usually do when pushed into a corner. Make stuff up. "Physics doesn't apply' is not an argument. I want evidence. Not your opinions.
Orochimaru in his human form is NOT a snake. He's a human with snake like abilities. That is not evidence he shares every characteristic with the snakes and if you want to argue that I suggest you prove it or simply stop arguing this point. You seem to be confused on how this whole argument thing works. You make a claim. You back the claim.
And who said he can't enter his true form? I've specifically addressed what happens if he does that.
It's dying, but that doesn't mean he'll actually die from it nor does it mean that this is the only type of death that kills him in one go.
-Host body rejects him.
-He's forced to leave it before he dies.
-He takes a new body.
Sealing=/=Physical damage doesn't matter. Orochimaru being unable to be killed by physical attacks is literally based on nothing. If his head is taken off, he dies unless he can escape from his host body in time. If he takes heavy damage and can't use Oral Rebirth,
Lmao. Is this guy serious? That's not a text bubble. That's an SFX to represent the fact that Hashirama can't move.
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That's VIZ. :lol
Because he can't react well enough to his Shunshin or Hiraishin to mount any kind of offensive counter. Not sure what's so hard to understand here.
You've yet to prove he's fast enough to react well enough a close range Shunshin attempt to counter attack. Knowing where he's coming from and who he's coming for isn't evidence he can react.
Just noticed this was Zetsu Orochimaru...do we need to continue this discussion of sensing? Lol
-Minato flicks Kunai above Ay's head.
-Minato teleports.
Last time I checked a Kunai wouldn't be thrown above Ay's head unless Minato physically moved to do so. :lol Minato didn't leave a Kunai behind, that makes no sense. If he left it behind it'd be in the same position it was when he teleported, and that was NOT above Ay's head.
Shadow snakes are attached to him and are in close proximity of him. Teleporting to them accomplishes the same result as teleporting to Oro himself.
It doesn't cover the entire battlefield, so no, he can easily dodge it.
Based on what? Oh yes. Nothing.
Which is nothing compared to what Orochimaru uses in the long run.
KidGamer65
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Tsunade survived bisection. By this guy's logic she'd survive her head being taken off. :lol
Hmm. Seeing a whole lot of this as of late.
blazekev90
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Making stuff up? You're the one making a claim without evident. Lol We've witness immortal characters survive decapitation. Evident has shown Orochimaru surviving the imaginable. Yet you want me to prove otherwise?! Lmao. See, this is what YOU do. Make a claim off a hunch, and when someone questions it you ask them to prove why. Your opinion isn't concrete proof, although you always seem to believe so. You started this saying decapitation ends it, no snake survives that, applying real life snake characteristics. Ok, well no snake survives being cut in half, yet Orochimaru lives. BASED OFF WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU BELIEVE decapitation kills Orochimaru? This was your original claim.
Again, you're making Themis assumption. "He has snake like abilities, but not EVERY snake like characteristic." So you choose which snake like characteristics he share? lol you're the one making claims and not backing them up man
Orochimaru unable to be killed by physical attacks is shown evidence throughout the manga.
Lol ok. Bad scan. I'll take that, but he still acknowledged/ anticipated Madara's movements before he made a step. Naruto couldn't?!
Ftg isn't a factor unless a kunia/tag is in Orochimaru's proximity. You're acting as if Minato's body flicker is teleportion itself lol. Noticing an opponent making a move, anyone can use an offensive attack to slow or prevent their approach.
Minato didn't flick anything. I've had this discussion multiple times, it's a matter of interpretation or ones claim for the sake of an argument.
They don't need to cover the entire battlefield they only need to surround a Rotschy Morrow's whereabouts
As an observer a roach American simply counter a thrown kunia with one of his own or futuuon technique.
KidGamer65
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No, you've seen Hidan survive decapitation. Hidan is not Orochimaru nor does he possess the same abilities as Hidan. So Hidan surviving is irrelevant. Decapitation kills regular people and Orochimaru hasn't shown any kind of special ability or attribute that'd exempt him from this rule, thus his head gets off and he dies. Based on what does he survive? Oh wait, based on nothing but your opinion.
No, he gets the snake like characteristics he has shown in the Manga. If you want to argue for him having more then prove it. That simple.
Nope. Orochimaru being unable to be killed by physical attacks is something you made up.
Naruto barely blocked. His block was bad and he got tossed to the floor. Minato is faster than Madara. Orochimaru is slower than Naruto. Doesn't take much though to figure out what happens to Orochimaru here. Naruto knowing he was coming didn't change that.
You've had this discussion multiple times yet you continue to deny Manga fact? Lmao.
-Kunai is in Minato's hand which is below Ay's head. [
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]-Kunai is then above Ay's head, which is above it's original position. [
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]Meaning he flicked the Kunai up in the air, then warped away and then warped back to his first Kunai. It's not a matter of interpretation. It's a matter of you denying Manga fact.
Then Gamabunta simply flattens them to make things simple. And knocking away Kunai doesn't matter when Minato is trying to dodge Orochimaru's attacks. :lol That only helps when Orochimaru is the one being targeted by an attack.
Orochimaru survived two assaults that result in the same damage as decapitation with the only exception being the skin was still holding the head together.
A) [
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]-> [
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]-> [
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] - multiple Chakra Scalpel hits taken to the throat - destroying his spinal cord and mutilating all veins and internal stuff. Pretty much equivalent to decapitation, hell, even more brutal and destructive.B) [
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] -> [
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] - taking a massive hit straight through his spinal cord = death in normal circumstances, pretty much equivalent to decapitation. And nothing happened, Orochimaru laughed it off.C) Now I assume you will try to say "ok, but with head being separated from the rest of his body he will not be able to do anything" here's a proof it's not a problem. [
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] Orochimaru gets bisected, so his lower body part was separated from his brain and he still managed to control both body parts, even though they were not connected to one another.
blazekev90
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I used that to illustrate that survival of decapitation is possible in the manga. You compare regular humans to Orochimaru is laughable, especially if that's the premise of your argument. Orochimaru has survived being sliced and diced and has regenerated on every account. You claim is desperate and holds no evidence. So, we can either get past this decapitation back and forth and move on, or we can keep going. I have the time today.
What snake like characteristics HASNT he shown? That's what I've asked.
Not made up. Show me a physical attack that killed. Otherwise, my point remains because that's what we've witnessed. Stop it.
Naruto barely blocked? What did you observed? We didn't even see the contact made between the two. Him being tossed doesn't indicate the block be delayed, but rather him unable to withstand the force.
No, what we witnessed was wind gust+visual effect playing its part. Whenever Minato uses ftg, wind gust occurs at both points. There's NOTHING in the scan indicating that Minato physically tossed the kunia. No denying fact, when it wasn't shown in the manga. There's confounds that can very well explain why the kunia remained mid-air
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blazekev90
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