A Proper Naruto and Sasuke Analysis

[Dizzldot]

What does getting burned has to do with his strength of chakra?? Please comprehend just a little.

Please go to school or get a job do something to make you a relevant member of society

 

[DHOH]

Please go to school or get a job do something to make you a relevant member of society

Please learn comprehension before embarrassing yourself on ND.

 

[Dizzldot]

Please learn comprehension before embarrassing yourself on ND.

Im embarrassing myself in an online forum of manga nerds? thats an oxymoron for ya aint it?

 

[DHOH]

Im embarrassing myself in an online forum of manga nerds? thats an oxymoron for ya aint it?

No not at all.. If you're going to be a nerd, at least be a smart one lol.

 

[Dizzldot]

No not at all.. If you're going to be a nerd, at least be a smart one lol.

Once again what university do you go to smart guy lmfao

 

[Alastor]

Kurama said he assimilated the chakra to his own, if anything that proves that naruto's rasengan is a match for chidori+enton of sasuke therefore naruto's is more powerful no? not trying to twist the logic thats actually what I take away from it lol its straight forward but then again you're looking too much into it the clash was gunna happen that way no matter what

Actually, that's exactly why I'm saying that Sasuke's chakra is more powerful.

We already know that the winner of a jutsu clash is decided by 3 factors.

1) Elemental recombination (Elemental advantage).
2) Spacial recombination. (Shape Manipulation)
3) Chakra.

During each Chidori/Rasengan clash Naruto only used the Rasengan which does not make use of any elemental recombination so element (1) is irrelevant. We also know that Rasengan is the jutsu with the highest form of spacial recombination, so element (2) is in Naruto's favor. Logically, this means that unless Sasuke can make up for his disadvantage through chakra quality which is element (3) then Chidori should lose any clash with Rasengan, however each and every Chidori/Rasengan clash ends in a stalemate which clearly indicates that Sasuke's chakra is really the most powerful since it does cancel out Naruto's spacial advantage.

To further elaborate on this lets take the final Chidori/Enton clash as an example. Since we already know that Chidori Vs Rasengan = stalemate, one would expect that Chidori + Enton > Rasengan right ? However this was not the case, since it ended in a stalemate. So why is that ? What exactly changed during his clash ?
1) Naruto was still using a rasengan so elemental advantage (1) is still irrelevant
2) Naruto still has the spacial recombination advantage since neither Chidori nor Enton make use of any advanced shape so element 2 is irrelevant too.

And hence we get the answer : What changed is element (3) since during this clash both Naruto and Sasuke were using Kurama's chakra, since they both ran out of their own chakra. This means that Kurama's chakra which Sasuke was using has to be significantly weaker than Sasuke's regular chakra which he used in every Chidori/Rasengan clash so far, because when using his regular chakra, Chidori alone is a match for Rasengan however when using Kuramas chakra it took both Enton and Chidori to match a Rasengan.

Was this clear enough ?

 

[Dizzldot]

Actually, that's exactly why I'm saying that Sasuke's chakra is more powerful.

We already know that the winner of a jutsu clash is decided by 3 factors.

1) Elemental recombination (Elemental advantage).
2) Spacial recombination. (Shape Manipulation)
3) Chakra.

During each Chidori/Rasengan clash Naruto only used the Rasengan which does not make use of any elemental recombination so element (1) is irrelevant. We also know that Rasengan is the jutsu with the highest form of spacial recombination, so element (2) is in Naruto's favor. Logically, this means that unless Sasuke can make up for his disadvantage through chakra quality which is element (3) then Chidori should lose any clash with Rasengan, however each and every Chidori/Rasengan clash ends in a stalemate which clearly indicates that Sasuke's chakra is really the most powerful since it does cancel out Naruto's spacial advantage.

To further elaborate on this lets take the final Chidori/Enton clash as an example. Since we already know that Chidori Vs Rasengan = stalemate, one would expect that Chidori + Enton > Rasengan right ? However this was not the case, since it ended in a stalemate. So why is that ? What exactly changed during his clash ?
1) Naruto was still using a rasengan so elemental advantage (1) is still irrelevant
2) Naruto still has the spacial recombination advantage since neither Chidori nor Enton make use of any advanced shape so element 2 is irrelevant too.

And hence we get the answer : What changed is element (3) since during this clash both Naruto and Sasuke were using Kurama's chakra, since they both ran out of their own chakra. This means that Kurama's chakra which Sasuke was using has to be significantly weaker than Sasuke's regular chakra which he used in every Chidori/Rasengan clash so far, because when using his regular chakra, Chidori alone is a match for Rasengan however when using Kuramas chakra it took both Enton and Chidori to match a Rasengan.

Was this clear enough ?

You're 1.looking way too far into it the clash HAD to happen that way
2. he assimilated the chakra to himself essentially making it his own chakra
3. you actually have to give sasuke the elemental advantage x2 because naruto's lack of element doesnt make sasuke's not count as an advantage, having no element is like having the element disadvantage its another factor to your jutsu to improve it's strength which is why rasenshuriken>rasengan

So really its Naruto with no element A rank jutsu=sasuke +2 elements including a EMS technique S rank and A rank chidori

From that perspective the chakra can't be even or else sasuke should definitely win the clash but didn't

I understand what you're trying to get at but I firmly believe we both are diving too far into this and either side can change the context to fit naruto>sasuke or sasuke>naruto very easily it just depends upon whom you favor

 

[Uzumaki sensei]

Lol Databook Says Uchiha have the strongest chakra out of all clan!! Meaning Uchiha> Uzamaki
Kurama said Sasuke's chakra is more sinister than his own... Sasuke was fueled by hate.. the more his hate grew, the stronger his chakra got.. Karin Said Sasuke chakra is more potent than his CS!!! CS is Senjutsu and that was only MS.. Sasuke chakra more stronger when he gained EMS and the Rinnengan but had already surpass Senjutsu with MS.

So you're the fap that doesn't know shit.

so why couldnt madara beah hashirama

 

[Alastor]

You're 1.looking way too far into it the clash HAD to happen that way
2. he assimilated the chakra to himself essentially making it his own chakra
3. you actually have to give sasuke the elemental advantage x2 because naruto's lack of element doesnt make sasuke's not count as an advantage, having no element is like having the element disadvantage its another factor to your jutsu to improve it's strength which is why rasenshuriken>rasengan

So really its Naruto with no element A rank jutsu=sasuke +2 elements including a EMS technique S rank and A rank chidori

From that perspective the chakra can't be even or else sasuke should definitely win the clash but didn't

I understand what you're trying to get at but I firmly believe we both are diving too far into this and either side can change the context to fit naruto>sasuke or sasuke>naruto very easily it just depends upon whom you favor

You are either misunderstanding or deliberately trying to change the facts here.

Sasuke assimilating the chakra does not change the fact that it is not his chakra. It was still Kurama's chakra made from Kurama's life foce and Kurama's spiritual energy, just flowing inside Sasuke's body.

Not using an element does not give you an elemental disadvantage, I don't know where you got that from since the nature advantage chart clearly talks about elements and never menntions any advantage/disadvantage against regular chakra and by this logic the Hyuuga's Kaiten would be one of the most worthless defensive justu out there since it is disadvantaged against literally everything. Doesn't really make sense for it to be called the other perfect defense then...

So really its Naruto with no element A rank jutsu=sasuke +2 elements including a EMS technique S rank and A rank chidori

Your own logic is self contradicted since both Naruto and Sasuke where using Kurama's chakra, so chakra quality is irrelevant during the final clash since they are both literally using the same Kyuubi chakra. Which means that Sasuke should have won that clash if he got both the elemental advantage AND the better jutsus. Clearly didn't happen. This does not invalidate every other Chidori/rasengan clash that ever happened either.

So yeah, you can say that I'm looking too deeply into it, even though I'm just applying the jutsu facts presented in the manga as we have them, that would be an acceptable argument, but you simply cannot change these facts or make up new facts like you did above just to justify your point, because this only means that you know your arguments are canonically incorrect.

 

[DHOH]

so why couldnt madara beah hashirama

Lol. Stronger chakra =/= Stronger shinobi... what's wrong with you people???

 

[Dizzldot]

You are either misunderstanding or deliberately trying to change the facts here.

Sasuke assimilating the chakra does not change the fact that it is not his chakra. It was still Kurama's chakra made from Kurama's life foce and Kurama's spiritual energy, just flowing inside Sasuke's body.

Not using an element does not give you an elemental disadvantage, I don't know where you got that from since the nature advanatge chart clearly talks about elements not just chakra and by this logic the Hyuuga's Kaiten would be one of the most worthless defensive justu out there since it is disadvantaged against everything. Doesn't really make sense for it to be called the other perfect defense then...



Your own logic is self contradicted since both Naruto and Sasuke where using Kurama's chakra, so chakra quality is irrelevant during the final clash since they are both literally using the same Kyuubi chakra. Which means that Sasuke should have won that clash if he got both the elemental advantage AND the better jutsus. Clearely didn't happen. This does not invalidate every other Chidori/rasengan clash that ever happened either.

So yeah, you can say that I'm looking too deeply into it, even though I'm just applying the jutsu facts presented in the manga as we have them, that would be an acceptable argument, but you simply cannot change these facts or make up new facts like you did above just to justify your point, because this only means that you know your arguments are canonically incorrect.

so it took sasuke 2 jutsu to match naruto's 1
He used a s rank and a rank naruto used a single a rank
therefore rasengan=Enton+chidori?
Your argument is flawed you're trying to say that since he used kurama's chakra his attacks were weaker, then why did naruto's single A rank match an S rank and A rank jutsu from sasuke using the same chakra, surely a rasengan can't be more powerful then enton+chidori? I could easily say naruto never tried to kill sasuke in their rasengan chidori clashes before as well and deliberately didnt use a full powered rasengan and you don't have proof against that but I don't fight using speculation like you are.
And elemental advantage does matter during rasengan vs wind style rasengan as seen when kakashi said adding the wind nature should totally cancel out kakashi's normal rasengan which it did, that debunks your entire argument that having no element isn't a disadvantage.

 

[Alastor]

so it took sasuke 2 jutsu to match naruto's 1
He used a s rank and a rank naruto used a single a rank
therefore rasengan=Enton+chidori?
Your argument is flawed you're trying to say that since he used kurama's chakra his attacks were weaker, then why did naruto's single A rank match an S rank and A rank jutsu from sasuke using the same chakra, surely a rasengan can't be more powerful then enton+chidori? I could easily say naruto never tried to kill sasuke in their rasengan chidori clashes before as well and deliberately didnt use a full powered rasengan and you don't have proof against that but I don't fight using speculation like you are.
And elemental advantage does matter during rasengan vs wind style rasengan as seen when kakashi said adding the wind nature should totally cancel out kakashi's normal rasengan which it did, that debunks your entire argument that having no element isn't a disadvantage.

*Sigh*

1) In case you didn't know, the jutsu ranking system is just used as an indicator of how hard a jutsu is to master not how powerful it actually is.

2) Yes, we do know for a fact that a Rasengan by a random ninja is more powerful than a random Chidori. This much has been stated before Naruto even begun learning the jutsu in the first place. The fact that Sasuke has been able to match what would normally be a more powerful jutsu with a less powerful jutsu throughout the series should in itself be proof of him having the better chakra.

3) Yes, it is perfectly reasonable for Chidori and Enton to be only equal to Rasengan in this situation since Chidori is normally below Rasengan and Enton is a jutsu that comes from The Mangekyo sharingan chakra yet was created with the chakra of a non-Uchiha which makes it a heavily nerfed Enton. This is not any more unreasonable than saying that a bijuu bomb would be weaker if it was made using the chakra of a non-bijuu (which it actually is since it results in a Rasengan instead of a bijuu bomb).

Speaking of which need I remind you that Sasuke's Susnaoo Chidori was a match for a Bijuu bomb from six paths Naruto's Kurama ? I Think this alone speaks volumes about Sasuke's chakra potency.

4) Rasengan vs wind style Rasengan has nothing to do with elemental disadvantage. It is literally nothing more than a direct and straightforward application of the rules I mentioned above, the winner being decided by 3 factors : It is literally taking two jutsu who are evenly matched in point 3 and 2 and adding to one of them factor 1 which is wind chakra. Naruto did not change his chakra with wind chakra, he created the Rasengan with the normal chakra then further added in wind chakra. You argument would make sense if chidori and Rasengan had an equal level of spacial recombination like Rasengan and Wind Rasengan. But they do not.

Also, you are the only one making speculations here since all I ever wrote are are direct quotes from manga scans.

 

[Dizzldot]

*Sigh*

1) In case you didn't know, the jutsu ranking system is just used as an indicator of how hard a jutsu is to master not how powerful it actually is.

2) Yes, we do know for a fact that a Rasengan by a random ninja is more powerful than a random Chidori. This much has been stated before Naruto even begun learning the jutsu in the first place. The fact that Sasuke has been able to match what would normally be a more powerful jutsu with a less powerful jutsu throughout the series should in itself be proof of him having the better chakra.

3) Yes, it is perfectly reasonable for Chidori and Enton to be only equal to Rasengan in this situation since Chidori is normally below Rasengan and Enton is a jutsu that comes from The Mangekyo sharingan chakra yet was created with the chakra of a non-Uchiha which makes it a heavily nerfed Enton. This is not any more unreasonable than saying that a bijuu bomb would be weaker if it was made using the chakra of a non-bijuu (which it actually is since it results in a Rasengan instead of a bijuu bomb).

Speaking of which need I remind you that Sasuke's Susnaoo Chidori was a match for a Bijuu bomb from six paths Naruto's Kurama ? I Think this alone speaks volumes about Sasuke's chakra potency.

4) Rasengan vs wind style Rasengan has nothing to do with elemental disadvantage. It is literally nothing more than a direct and straightforward application of the rules I mentioned above, the winner being decided by 3 factors : It is literally taking two jutsu who are evenly matched in point 3 and 2 and adding to one of them factor 1 which is wind chakra. Naruto did not change his chakra with wind chakra, he created the Rasengan with the normal chakra then further added in wind chakra. You argument would make sense if chidori and Rasengan had an equal level of spacial recombination like Rasengan and Wind Rasengan. But they do not.

Also, you are the only one making speculations here since all I ever wrote are are direct quotes from manga scans.

Susanoo took more damage then the kurama avatar therefore we can assume the TBB was more powerful

My argument with the rasengan example still stands as kakashi stated the added chakra nature would cancel out the normal rasengan

The TBB is from mixing white and black or red and blue in the anime, chakra to create a ball, its yin/yang, the rasengan isn't anything but plain chakra so your example doesnt stand as well the TBB doesnt seem to have any rotation applied to it only the shape of a ball as a similarity.

Naruto's rasengan in KCM never seemed more powerful in any depiction and he is trading his chakra for a supposedly more powerful kyuubi chakra, your enton comparison is a stretch in the furthest sense possible.

Bring back valid points before you sigh with fodder arguments

I agree with the ranking system I understand that but it is usually a decent indicator of how powerful a jutsu is but saying "perfectly reasonable for chidori and enton to be equal to rasengan" cmon mate you're lying to yourself to try and give yourself a better argument lmfao combining two jutsu which are arguably rasengan level and above being enton only being equal to it because of "nerf" from kyuubi chakra which naruto gave to sasuke during the war to increase his power you're pulling strings out your bottom buddy

 

[Uzumaki sensei]

Lol. Stronger chakra =/= Stronger shinobi... what's wrong with you people???

lol it strong chakra=strong body what wrong with you? sauske loses he dont have the stamina

 

[DHOH]

lol it strong chakra=strong body what wrong with you? sauske loses he dont have the stamina

No but whatever.. I'm tired of people with comprehension problems.

 

[shelke]

Im embarrassing myself in an online forum of manga nerds? thats an oxymoron for ya aint it?

Oxymoron? At least use the word correctly.

*Sigh*

1) In case you didn't know, the jutsu ranking system is just used as an indicator of how hard a jutsu is to master not how powerful it actually is.

Finally! I am so tired of this "S-Rank" translates into power, when both the manga and the databook disagree.

Disagree with the rest bar one or two arguments.

 

[Dizzldot]

Oxymoron? At least use the word correctly.

The situation is an oxymoron because you can't embarrass yourself in front of people that go on these lol its a contradiction saying you should be embarrassed on a nerd online forum wannabe scholar :elmo:

 

[shelke]

The situation is an oxymoron because you can't embarrass yourself in front of people that go on these lol its a contradiction saying you should be embarrassed on a nerd online forum wannabe scholar :elmo:

Situation? Oxymoron? Yeah, you put the moron in Oxymoron. It's a compressed paradox, not what you stated. Sit down.

 

[Dizzldot]

Situation? Oxymoron? Yeah, you put the moron in Oxymoron. It's a compressed paradox, not what you stated. Sit down.

Yeah if it was then I would be making a statement that contradicts itself which I didnt and this situation doesnt contradict itself either, once again the kid making 35k a year wants to talk crap to me lmfao I love it I can change your bum life too
Would you like that baby shelke? would you like your bum life to be changed? I could make you something you seem pretty book smart just need a bit of refinement you'd make a fantastic "executive assistant" btw I'm sitting down at a desk right now :elmo:

 

[Alastor]

Susanoo took more damage then the kurama avatar therefore we can assume the TBB was more powerful

My argument with the rasengan example still stands as kakashi stated the added chakra nature would cancel out the normal rasengan

The TBB is from mixing white and black or red and blue in the anime, chakra to create a ball, its yin/yang, the rasengan isn't anything but plain chakra so your example doesnt stand as well the TBB doesnt seem to have any rotation applied to it only the shape of a ball as a similarity.

Naruto's rasengan in KCM never seemed more powerful in any depiction and he is trading his chakra for a supposedly more powerful kyuubi chakra, your enton comparison is a stretch in the furthest sense possible.

Bring back valid points before you sigh with fodder arguments

I agree with the ranking system I understand that but it is usually a decent indicator of how powerful a jutsu is but saying "perfectly reasonable for chidori and enton to be equal to rasengan" cmon mate you're lying to yourself to try and give yourself a better argument lmfao combining two jutsu which are arguably rasengan level and above being enton only being equal to it because of "nerf" from kyuubi chakra which naruto gave to sasuke during the war to increase his power you're pulling strings out your bottom buddy

1) Both Kurama and Susanoo took a roughly equal amount of damage. Kurama was just reforming while the Susnaoo did not (or rather Sasuke did not care enough to do it since he immediately pumped in the Bijuu chakra). It would not be too surprising for Naruto to have a slight advantage nonetheless since it was Naruto's chakra + Kurama + other Bijuu + sage mode Vs Sasuke's chakra.

2) Your argument does not stand, at least not for what you think it does, because I already explained that this is nothing more than a direct application of the rules I previously explained. Also, that can very well be some form of mistranslation, mind posting the scan ?

3) Go back and read the part where Naruto tries to master the bijuu bomb. It was stated that the Rasengan is just something Minato created to emulate the Bijuu bomb. When Naruto tried to create a Rasengan the very first time he entered KCM he accidentally ended up creating a bijuu bomb because it is a similar process but with a difference in the quality of chakra.

Spoiler

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4) You are kidding yourself if you think that a Rasengan created with Bijuu chakra like this one :

Spoiler

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Is just as powerful as a rasengan of a similar size (odama size) but normal chakra like this one :

Spoiler

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Also, we are trying to have a civil discussion here so lets not resort to petty insults because they won't help you achieve anything. If you have a poblem with my reasoning then do explain what the problem is so that we can solve the issue instead.