TRE MERCER(War arc SM Naruto) Vs Drproof(Hebi Sasuke)

[Gabby-chan]

Dude stfu lmao. You're still salty I embarrassed you in your own thread :lol. You can't name one fault in my post. Go for it, truly.

First of all, stop calling me dude. I am a lady, show some respect. Second of all, you embarrassed no one, you just started throwing hell of shade from the moment we met. Third of all, I can name multiple faults in your post, it isn't perfect. Now stop coming at me about old shit when I'm here to discuss the debate

 

[TRE MERCER]

Ok Proof i gave you enough time to breath it's about that time i put the foot back on your neck.

Starting last post right now.

 

[Booker]

Ok Proof i gave you enough time to breath it's about that time i put the foot back on your neck.

Starting last post right now.

Dude Proof has basically had you gagged and bounded this whole debate lol.

 

[TRE MERCER]

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''R.I.P Proof''

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Error II
Assuming Naruto's Pain-arc - War-arc transition yielded no experience gain; Hebi Sasuke - Taka Sasuke alone yielded a vast majority in ability increase, believing that in a time-skip of two arcs, that Naruto wouldn't have improved is asinine.

Ⓐ: Pain’s Assault - Learned SM.
Ⓑ: Five Kage Summit - Progressed undoubtedly.
Ⓒ: Fourth Shinobi World War: Countdown - Progressed undoubtedly.
Ⓓ: Fourth Shinobi World War: Confrontation - SM used once again vs 3rd Raikage.

Two entire arcs had passed, and you say Naruto's capabilities hadn't been defined further; blasphemy. This proves using Sage Mode feats from the war-arc is null.

There was no vast difference in Hebi and Taka Sasuke only difference was MS. The only training Naruto had was with Kyuubi chakra mode there was no real difference in his base at all. He cannonly went head to head with Danzo arc Sasuke who by your knowledge is vastly superior to Hebi Sasuke. Which means if we add SM Hebi Sasuke is still crushes. Naruto progressing after 5 kage summit is completely off when all he did from the Pain arc to the 5 kage summit was basically beg Ei not go after Sasuke. Naruto capabilities got greater not his speed feats there is a difference. ​

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This is further proven by the statements you made:

• Only thing that is different from war arc and Pain arc SM Naruto is that War Arc SM Naruto can maintain SM without clones being in Mt Myoboku.
• He can also last longer while in SM.

How could Naruto progress further in the Sage Arts; redefining his capabilities regarding Sage Mode if he didn't improve from the Pain-arc - War-arc? It's because he did improve. Drastically.

I won't delve into the other portion of the first segment, it'd be a waste of time.

Let's assume for your sake Naruto did improve in terms of speed and reaction with SM during war arc and Pain arc. He doesn't need those War arc feats to evade and counter attack Hebi Sasuke. We already seen Deidara dodge a Hebi Sasuke speedblitz[

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]. Any version of SM Naruto shits on Deidara in terms of reactions speed and evasive feats. So in the end Naruto wouldn't really have to rely on his dodging v1 3rd Raikage feat when we've seen Hebi Sasuke top speed dodged by Deidara. ​

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Visual II

Misconceptions. These are what amass when you don't properly, and thoroughly read the manga; along with carefully studying scan illustrations. Your first fallacy:

• Sasuke can't catch people in Genjutsu without eye contact.

Incorrect. If you'd read the chapter further, you would've noticed that Sasuke caught Deidara in Genjutsu without the appropriate eye contact; not once, but

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.

Deidara had trained his left eye, so that it could specifically counter Itachi's

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Genjutsu, which it in fact is capable of.

Both of those times Deidara looked into Sasuke's eyes prior to using his jutsu[

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] Deidara eye doesn't nullify genjutsu completely or at all actually as Deidara states just so he can break genjutsu[

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]. Key word is BREAK THAT GENJUTSU which infact still means he can get caught he'll just break out of it quicker than a regular victim. ​

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Sasuke was shown to capture Deidara in a Genjutsu yet again. But this time, under the pretenses; Deidara's right eye was closed, and his left eye had assumed visual Genjutsu

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mode.

Along with being too far to make direct eye contact, Sasuke had still got the best of Deidara, putting him under the same Genjutsu as before; the usual depiction of two Sharingan proving Deidara had been

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yet again.

Proving again; Sasuke is capable of using Sharingan: Genjutsu without direct eye contact.
Sasuke can cast Sharingan: Genjutsu from augmented ranges.

Irrelevant as Deidara states himself that he trained his eye so he could BREAK sharingan genjutsu which means he still can get caught what don't you get about this? To far? You realize Deidara looked Sasuke directly in his eyes[

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] this was right before he used c4 then Deidara looked in his eyes again. You claim it's to far to catch him and genjutsu yet he was caught in genjutsu from that distance which means it isn't to far obviously.

Regardless of what your trying to spin here is that no 3 tomoe user has shown the ability to use genjutsu withou direct eye contact. Itachi,Kakashi,Obito,Shisui,Madara none of them yet Sasuke can this literally makes no sense. Even if this was true why wasn't it ever explained or utilized later in the manger ever? Because it's not factual at all. Sasuke can't just look at you in put you under genjutsu if he could he wouldn't have had trouble putting Bee in genjutsu. Further more Kishi made sure the users saw the eye contact[

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]. Don't give me the that's MS not 3 tomoe when your claiming the same thing with Rinnegan Sasuke below which ill address there as well. Not drop this argument because it's completely wrong that i don't even think you believe it's even possible. ​

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To further strengthen this fact, along with reassuring that Sasuke is capable of putting multiple targets in Genjutsu - Sasuke was shown to put all nine beast inside of Genjutsu with a single

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.

Redefining the fact that Sasuke is capable of casting visual Genjutsu against those out of direct eye contact; the nine beast were all in ranges

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that of the appropriate for eye contact.

This is simply to further prove that Sasuke performing visual Genjutsu without direct eye contact isn't a retcon/inconsistency, and that Sharingan: Genjutsu is capable of capturing multiple individuals at a time.

Now your comparing a Rikudo ampted Rinnegan to a 3 tomoe sharingan? That feat is strictly a Rinnegan genjutsu feat that can catch your opponent in genjutsu without eye contact not 3tomoe or anything or any other sharingan for that matters. The logic your using here would imply that you think Sasuke could block Infinite Tsukuyomi with his 3tomoe since he did it with his Rinnegan. Stop this is just getting way out of hand in terms of being ridiculous and fanfic and a complete struggle argument. ​

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Vision

• Deidara even looked right in Sasuke eyes prior to using c4.

This is both: false & true. It is true, that Deidara did in fact make eye contact with Sasuke however, it's false that Deidara was put under Genjutsu in this

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, unless you believe direct eye contact isn't required to use Sharingan: Genjutsu; which you don't.

If direct eye contact was needed for Sharingan: Genjutsu, Sasuke couldn't of had caught Deidara here. The reasoning behind this is because you believe: To apply Sharingan: Genjutsu you need direct eye contact; which you do not. Simple visual Genjutsu not branching from the Sharingan however, does. Let's go over the prerequisites to catch the opposition in simple visual Genjutsu:

That literally doesn't make sense. How are you even trying to deny Deidara looked into Sasuke eyes here[

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] When the manga even did a complete jump back of what those eye meant to Deidara by showing his battle with Itachi. Deidara did infact look into his eyes there is 0 denying that. Direct eye contact has always been needed for sharingan genjutsu except for KA and that's what makes that jutsu extremely dangerous. If Sasuke could just go around casting genjutsu on anybody he sees then what would be the hype around KA? Their wouldn't be any hype around it at all. ​

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Sasuke did not possess this stipulation; only Deidara did. You've probably asked yourself "how?" I'll explain now. Deidara was shown to have exceedingly prominent vision, capable of

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much greater distances than ordinary shinobi.

Prerequisites to perform his enhanced-vision? The absence of vision in one eye; right or left. Deidara's left eye's vision is obstructed, enabling his

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eye to see

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distances - This

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him to

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Sasuke had Sharingan active.

And here is the

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eye. This disproves that if Sharingan: Genjutsu in fact needed direct eye contact to be used, it wouldn't have worked.

We can't even see how far they were away from Deidara and do i really need to mind you that distances in which we can't see carefully see people sharingan can easily perceive?[

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]Obito is able o clearly see Kaguya without a problem even Kakashi can see her turn a head with regular eyes which is why he said she doesn't even care about us. Even in the scan where your suggesting Sasuke is to far to cast genjutsu we later see Obito noticing Deidara is eating clay[

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]. This also means that tobi could clearly see Deidara face so the range argument your using is completely wrong.
If Sasuke could cast genjutsu without eye contact how come he couldn't use genjutsu on Kabuto when he fought with his eyes closed? Because this argument is wrong and we both no it is so just drop it. ​

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Clarity

Another false statement:

• Summoning causes a huge smokescreen which blocks Sasuke from any form of eye contact.

For being an Uchiha fan, you seem to not know much regarding the clan, and their visual prowess. The Sharingan has been shown countless of times seeing

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objects; Sharingan would allow Sasuke to see directly through the smoke, as he did Deidara's landmine beneath the surface. Seeing through does not render the Sharingan from being able to pinpoint its initial target eg; the toad summons.

Sharingan being able to see chakra through object doesn't mean you can cast genjutsu on someone through an object. Your implying that if someone hide behide a wall Sasuke would be able to see their chakra thus he'd be able to catch something/someone through a complete solid object which couldn't be even more wrong. Your jumping to ridiculous lengths to try and force this horrible logic upon me and who ever is reading this. ​

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[

U]Null[/U]

Things I won't be addressing because they do not make sense/been refuted by proving war-arc feats aren't applicable to Pain-arc Naruto:

• If Sasuke reaches out with Chidori spear. His entire body is left open for a attack.
• Naruto dodges him 10m isn't enough to stop a Rasengan from landing in his chest since Naruto dodge and counter speed attack caught someone as fast as the 3rd Raikage while his arm was full extended.
• Sasuke will be put in this exact same position if he goes for Chidori spear or Katana attack.
• Naruto fighting with his eyes closed Sharingan genjutsu stun is never happening thus the rest of your fanfic set up is put to a stop.
• Ma and Pa uses their sound genjutsu, Sasuke is rendered immobile while Naruto throws a FRS to obliterates Sasuke's body.

Except he doesn't absolutely need those speed feats to achieve half of these. Sasuke body would still be completely open after he misses chidori spear that would still allow Naruto to get some hits off. Also this still doesn't stop Naruto from fighting Sasuke with his eyes closed he's still a sensor it's like you put all the things you don't have a counter for in this null list just to ignore the things you can't possibly bypass with real reason or battle strategy. ​

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All of the above statements you've falsely claimed have been refuted either by me redefining your fallacy, or by them being war-arc feats which cannot be applied to Pain-arc Naruto. I will now proceed to finish this debate by applying heavy pressure with minimally; Summons.

This is completely wrong since you included sound genjutsu which still can be used to one shot Sasuke regardless of Naruto being War arc SM or Pain arc SM your just completely ignoring good points on purpose but this will only guarantee your lost in the end so go ahead and do it. ​

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Servants

Sasuke through signing the Snake contract has been granted the permission to summon the reptilian species - From lower tiers to higher tiers (eg; Manda). Signing a contract with the higher-tier(s)

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other lesser summoning of the same species. This grants Sasuke several large snakes:

Ⓐ:

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.
Ⓑ:

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.
Ⓒ:

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.
Ⓓ:

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.

Majority of these snakes are completely fodder and can easily be dealt with via clones. Manda is the only exception but when Naruto has Ma and Pa not even he can do much. Ma and Pa sound genjutsu[

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] catches Sasuke and all his snakes. Yes it has the ability to catch multiple targets[

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] which means this is a easy one shot for Naruto and once their caught all Naruto has to do is take out Sasuke and he has many options-[

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]-[

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]-[

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] Each of these options take out Sasuke while he's paralyzed. ​

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In preparation for: "Sasuke can't control Manda" arguments; wrong, Sasuke states "

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" meaning he couldn't bargain, similar to how Orochimaru did with Manda. Not that it matters, simply putting Manda in Sharinga: Genjutsu would suffice all the same. Though if Orochimaru could get Manda to cooperate, Sasuke could as well; especially including the fact that he possesses Orochimaru's chakra completely.

Except your wrong Manda cannonly gave Orochimaru a hard time[

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]. Kabuto even had to beg. Orochimaru who had Manda for years still have problems Manda won't respect Sasuke so he'll be forced to put him in genjutsu no question about it. If Sasuke decides to talk Manda into fighting this is helpful for Naruto since it will provide him more gameplan time. ​

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Regarding the white snake: Sasuke summoned this specific snake in a

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proving that the snake needn't be summoned; simply appearing around Sasuke at his beckon - Similar to how

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from Sasuke's sleeves through the

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of chakra.

This snake is useless since Naruto would be easily be able to sense it coming. Not only that it wouldn't be able to preform this feat on SM Naruto[

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] via SM inhanced strength which allows him to casually toss and overpower summonings[

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]. So that white snake would get overpowed or sensed and dodged. ​

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This snake proved to be durable enough to

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completely from Deidara's

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C1 assault. The explosion's

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portioned slightly smaller to that of

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.

Except that Rasenshuriken wasn't mastered at all so a complete fail comparison on your behalf. This is an accurate view of the destructive power of a mastered Rasenshuriken[

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]. A rasenshuriken would slice right through that snake and Sasuke body with 0 difficulty. No debating that at all bro. ​

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This pressure is simply enough to end this battle. There's no need for me to explore this fight further in regards to: Snake Ninjutsu, regular Ninjutsu, Sharingan pre-cog, and the plethora of other techniques Sasuke possesses. Hebi Sasuke is above Sage Mode Naruto. This is fact.

Except this battle goes on as long as Naruto wants it to. Because once Ma and Pa uses their sound genjutsu their is literally nothing Sasuke can do to resist. As EMS Sasuke Failed to effective counter sound genjutsu[

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]. Unlike like that time he won't have Itachi here to bail him out. ​

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Recap II
Ⓐ: Reproved: Sasuke's Genjutsu can be used without eye contact & from augmented range.
Ⓑ: Reproved: Sasuke applies Genjutsu instantaneously on Naruto's summons upon their arrival.
Ⓒ: Proved: Deidara can see from extensive ranges.
Ⓓ: Snake summons overwhelm Naruto, with the addition of Sasuke's Genjutsu & melee assaults.
Ⓔ: Reproved: Sasuke triumphs without using the majority of his arsenal.

A- Completely shat on. Explain to me why Kabuto closing his eyes completely countered his genjutsu if he doesn't need eye contact.
B- Except he can't via closed eyes and summoing smoke.
C- That literally didn't help your arguments since Tobi was able to see Deidara face while being a long range.
D- Snake summonings along with Sasuke gets on shotted via Ma and Pa.
F- Literally irrelevant.

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GG.... ​

 

[TRE MERCER]

Dude Proof has basically had you gagged and bounded this whole debate lol.

On literally none of my post the fact that he's basing a huge point of his arguments on Sasuke using genjutsu without eye contact alone should tell you what type of struggle he's in.

 

[The Messiah]

Only Sasuke faps think DrProof is winning this debate right now.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Only Sasuke faps think DrProof is winning this debate right now.

Thank you DrProof skipped over so many of my arguments that he had 0 way to counter. Lol.

 

[The Messiah]

Thank you DrProof skipped over so many of my arguments that he had 0 way to counter. Lol.

That genjutsu argument that he made was just ridiculous. You shut that completely down.

 

[DrProof]

That's the exact way I knew you'd counter. I've actually already typed up a preemptive in case you took that route, you literally had no where else to go. I'll end your post soon.

Just read it fully. Just a bunch of recycled scans, and misconceptions again. You haven't learned anything from what I've been showing you Tre. Good luck man, my next post will end this.

 

[Oblivionx]

This was a good post @TRE, your 1st one was not as good. BTW how many posts each of you are going to make before this debate is judged? I think we have enough info here. In any case lets see what DrProof can bring to table now.

 

[Gabby-chan]

This was a good post @TRE, your 1st one was not as good. BTW how many posts each of you are going to make before this debate is judged? I think we have enough info here. In any case lets see what DrProof can bring to table now.

It should be over after PuddingProof posts. I honestly think Tre won, although his format and vocabulary were not as pleasing to the eyes as Puddings. I would like to see what Pudding has to say about Tre's last post though, might change my mind :nefer: too bad i'm not a judge :wesobi:

 

[BLAZE]

if Tre loses this

though genjutsu thing is really :hmm:

Only Sasuke faps think DrProof is winning this debate right now.

Lol this dude seriously got rustled

Edit: who will be judging btw

 

[The Messiah]

It should be over after PuddingProof posts. I honestly think Tre won, although his format and vocabulary were not as pleasing to the eyes as Puddings. I would like to see what Pudding has to say about Tre's last post though, might change my mind :nefer: too bad i'm not a judge :wesobi:

Aww you have a nickname for proof.

 

[The Messiah]

if Tre loses this

though genjutsu thing is really :hmm:

Lol this dude seriously got rustled

Edit: who will be judging btw

I'm rustled ?

 

[Gabby-chan]

Aww you have a nickname for proof.

I have a nickname for everyone :th: the proof is in the pudding (although he's a big jerk to me sometimes :wesobi

 

[TRE MERCER]

Y'all tripping if you think I'll lose this. Proof needs to change his name to DrFanfic.

 

[Gabby-chan]

Y'all tripping if you think I'll lose this. Proof needs to change his name to DrFanfic.

Lmao. Nooo. That'll mess up my nickname for him!

 

[TRE MERCER]

We need judges for this.

 

[Oblivionx]

We need judges for this.

you should have decided that beforehand. Now everyone is biased towards one side or the other. Better luck finding unbiased members here.

 

[EZQ]

Is this over? I think proof is missing one post