DSM Kabuto (Brother Numpsay) vs. Nagato (Edogawa)

[Edogawa]

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Naruto talks the same way facing Edo Nagato himself via comparing him to Pains. Naruto knows Out Path can only be used by Nagato and calls it Gedo Powers. Naruto is making the comparison of both Nagato and Pains usage of the jutsu. As he experience both of them single handily. And was able to have some resistance over both of theirs. But none against Obito at all. So I dont see how VIZ changes the context at all.

Naruto didn't say that. Obito made the statement. Check the anime:

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. He compares the binding of rods between his which he enhanced with the chains and Nagato/Pain's rods. My point is, Nagato used the rods to control Pain; Obito compares his binding to Pain's. Again, I never made any point on the chains, so I don't know why you brought it up.

Thats a perfect analogy. Gai being a small target supports my case since it takes a small target with that kind of physical strength to trip Gedo. Gedo facing multiple opponents doesnt change what Gai had already accomplished. The weight of the attack from Manda 2 is most definitely going to knock away Mazo. Thats illogical to say because you can block yourself from getting crushed in between, means you can do that in the same motion getting tackled and stay one place.

So Mazo will just stand there doing nothing? No, he'll

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Manda 2 and finish him off with its lightning attack. If Kabuto attempted to tackle the Mazo, Nagato will block him from any attempt.

I have no idea how much damage the jutsu would do against Manda 2. Im not concern when Mazo will be smacked around multiple times to even try.

Then that's a concession. Manda 2 doesn't have durability of a 2 Chakra-enhanced mountains, so it dies from that.

Only if hypothetically he can get alot of them in then maybe. Considering Snake are excellent in slipping past offenses demonstrated by inferior snake via Aoba. Its hardly working.

The rods block Chakra and immobilize. He isn't moving when Nagato's Chakra is immobolizing him. Obito only needed a small piece of rod attached on the Biju's to control them.

Nope its accurate as I mentioned Asura durability isnt all that. Asura endurance is crazy good on the other hand. This ABC doesnt hold or support your point. Orochimaru has a modify physique to take Tsunades punch. Jiraya will never ever tank a punch from Tsunade dont debate this. CS2 Jirobo already matched Tsunade strength while Kabuto gets access to it along with superior SM boost. Even if you think Asura packs more punch then Kabuto, is not relevant since his lifting strength, CQC skill, along with superior reflexes out matches him.

Physique modification like

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? For all what the manga showed, Jiraiya was able to withstand a

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from transformed Naruto, while Orochimaru's modified face was

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off; not to mention Jiraiya's body allowed him to sustain Senjutsu, while Orochimaru failed. So as it stands, Jiraiya has better durability than Orochimaru. The former had his arm ripped off physically at Sennin Mode state by Asura Path's punch. Nagato himself has superior Asura Path qualities than Pain, meaning his own Asura Path can overwhelm SM Kabuto's physical strength.

You just bold the part where is being summoned. So no you dont have a point. It being summoned does not mean it replaces the orignal flesh such as limbs and brain. It only upgrades it or adds more. Asura body was drawing blood from Kakashi's attack. While your example of using a corpse body should not be speculated to even say Nagato's body would be the same.

I don't know how hard it is to understand simple text. It clearly says the organic body is being made into a weapon material - ''One of Rikudo's techniques where arms/weapons are summoned (w/ Kuchiyose) make ones own body into a weapon.'' Stop adding words or context not mentioned in the entry. Corpses have organs too, lol; they just don't function. So I stand correct on this.

They are dead yet can be killed? Pains are dead corpse yet genjutsu and death blows can take them out? Yea poison is going to be no different working. According to DB4 doesnt change anything. Kabuto wasnt able to control Edo Hanzo when the poison begin to start taking effect to his body.

When have the summons been killed? Because I could have swore they disappeared and were then summoned back completely fine. Even Nagato died and revived in Edo Tensei still summoned them perfectly. So this proves they're immortal. Do they disappear after being killed? Yes, but they are immortal. Poison tactics aren't working in that case.

Genjutsu? All that did was dismantle Nagato's control over the corpses. They weren't killed because, well...they're corpses. They can be shut down with Genjutsu or blows to the point Nagato cannot move them anymore.

I mentioned Clones. Each are separated and have their own task at hand away from each other, along with the orignal.

They get taken out by ST.

The Gold itself is material made and produce from Kido body same way Kimmiaro's bones work[1]. So its not getting canceled.
Arrows can be manipulated mid flight while at the same time its power to clear the entire forest in its path. Blocking is not an option for Nagato.

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First, he doesn't say they are produced the same way Kimmimaro's bones. I don't know you interpreted that. All he says is he produces them from his mouth; through Chakra obviously. Kimmimaro's bones are organic, literally his bones manipulated by Chakra. I have an image which symbolizes the liquid is Chakra flowing through his metal. It gets absorbed via Preta Path.

And lol at the last sentence. Your exaggeration of techniques is always your negative habits on debate. Clear forest? Nagato can't block it? This is just laughable. He can sacrifice his immortal Animal Path summons, which are all sorts of variety are blocking option or just repels them with ST.

This is completely wrong that was Asura's jutsu. And the strength argument was already addressed as its not even relevant based on the fact that Kabuto is still superior in CQC and reflexes.

The Jutsu was he could shoot his hand off; the rest was purely physical power.

Enton and Hachibi are harder substances then Kimmi's bones? Because thats the only thing that matters here when blocking the rods from piercing.

Yes, they are. Can Kimmimaro's bones survive the most heated Jutsu? No. Can Kimimaro's bones survive Chidori/Raikage's Raiton finger? No. It has no feats of such thing.

Did I forget to mention that Kidomaru's Gold Sweat Gland is capable of even block any chakra from transmitting inside Kabuto to begin with?

The rods can be used as medium for Preta Path. [

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] While the rods are in contact with Kabuto, Nagato uses Preta Path via the rods to absorb Kidomaru's metal, then he projects it to stab Kabuto, suppressing his Chakra network. The same thing that was used to render ET Hashirama and Tobirama immobile will be used on Kabuto.

First I never denied that one rod can disturb chakra alone. That isnt evidence that Kabuto can't use ninjutsu when we see characters Naruto, Hashirama and Tobirama doing that just fine.

You got it wrong here. On Naruto, Nagato never attempted to hit on his vital organs (where Chakra points are located) because he wanted to keep him alive. On Hashirama, Madara suppressed him after he was revived. [

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] Tobirama never used a Jutsu once hit. Neither Kabuto will.

---

Finish off​

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While Nagato can play around with Kabuto if he desired; if he wanted to one-shot him, this technique will do it well and hard.

Firstly, I know what counters my opposition will attempt to use: Muki Tensei. He will say Kabuto can manipulate the rocks attracted by CT, but this is fallacy. There is no single evidence Muki Tensei can manipulate rocks that are attracted by powerful gravity, so powerful it can rip off mountain range and layer of earth through Pain; indisputably Nagato's version will be much more powerful at healthy state. There is actually no feat of Muki Tensei manipulating rocks of mountain range. His only feat is manipulating a cave, so any attempt to say he can use it much greater range than a cave is non-existent feat; in other words, fanfic. Kabuto gets locked in a beautiful CT; either he dies from being crush to death or he is sealed.

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Additions:

• Nagato can pull off his soul via Human Path.
• Nagato can suppress his movements via black rods.
• Nagato can outlast him.

---

​

 

[DrProof]

ight. I'll read all this, and check all the legitimacy in a bit. Good debate bruhs.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Umm Im writing my last post as we speak he gets 3 i get 3

 

[DrProof]

Umm Im writing my last post as we speak he gets 3 i get 3

Yeah I know. Just noting that, I'm still active, and judging this debate was all.

 

[Unorthodox]

I could solo both at the same time but I'll let them shine

 

[DrProof]

I could solo both at the same time but I'll let them shine

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[LoZelda101]

Edogawa I recommend Dr Proof, NarutoX28, and Bad Touch Yakushi.

Unless you think Bad Touch will show some type of bias. I believe he will be fair but its up to you

logical choice out of the 3

 

[DrProof]

logical choice out of the 3

Are you implying I'm not logical, or is that just wank :lol Nvm you're a 2k15 member. You don't even know me.

 

[LoZelda101]

Are you implying I'm not logical, or is that just wank :lol Nvm you're a 2k15 member. You don't even know me.

You're the guy who thought gaara could beat killer bee unrestricted right? lol,

@bold. good

 

[DrProof]

You're the guy who thought gaara could beat killer bee unrestricted right? lol,

@bold. good

Yes a Perfect Jin Gaara > Killer Bee. :lol denying this is ignorant. Not like you have any credibility to my knowledge, I haven't even seen a post from you in the VS thread. Don't judge people you have no knowledge of.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Naruto didn't say that. Obito made the statement. Check the anime:

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. He compares the binding of rods between his which he enhanced with the chains and Nagato/Pain's rods. My point is, Nagato used the rods to control Pain; Obito compares his binding to Pain's. Again, I never made any point on the chains, so I don't know why you brought it up.

Cant watch it its blocked but I went out of my way to find the episode.
Ok Obito makes the statement. Still changes nothing. Obito compare himself to both Nagato/Pain using Gedo's power.

I brought up the chains to compare its restraint ability to Nagato's.

So Mazo will just stand there doing nothing? No, he'll

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Manda 2 and finish him off with its lightning attack. If Kabuto attempted to tackle the Mazo, Nagato will block him from any attempt.

Pushing Choji by mere shockwave, which he wasnt pushed significantly far, isnt going to show any significant to something that is bigger and weights much more then Choj. And its movement arent based on foot movements, which is more difficult to keep balance then something that is crawling on the scales of its abdomen.

If Mazo can get any space to charge the Raiton then you have a point. But based on my rebuttal he isn't properly pulling this out. When the heck did I say Kabuto will tackle the Mazo? I never even mentioned Kabuto facing off Mazo in my premise. I used both laws of motion as an example to addressed my case. Which is the motion of getting crushed in-between two driving force from opposite directions vs the motion of getting tackled in a single directions.

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. So my rebuttals clearly shows your example/proof does work against dealing with Manda2 tail swipes.

Then that's a concession. Manda 2 doesn't have durability of a 2 Chakra-enhanced mountains, so it dies from that.

Thats a bit desperate to say Edogawa and I literally addressed and gave reasons why pulling it off isn't going to work

The rods block Chakra and immobilize. He isn't moving when Nagato's Chakra is immobolizing him. Obito only needed a small piece of rod attached on the Biju's to control them.

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.

So its only speculative to say how much rods is needed to stop Manda2 from shedding.

Physique modification like

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? For all what the manga showed, Jiraiya was able to withstand a

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from transformed Naruto, while Orochimaru's modified face was

You must be registered for see links

off; not to mention Jiraiya's body allowed him to sustain Senjutsu, while Orochimaru failed. So as it stands, Jiraiya has better durability than Orochimaru. The former had his arm ripped off physically at Sennin Mode state by Asura Path's punch. Nagato himself has superior Asura Path qualities than Pain, meaning his own Asura Path can overwhelm SM Kabuto's physical strength.

Comparing cutting to punching? Compare the damage Naruto done to Jiraya much worst then Orochimaru (when the scan shows less on Orochimaru)? Your Premise already clears up the misconception of lifting strength compare to punching power but still say Nagato is superior in physical strength? This isnt helping your case at all.

Then you have yet countered why Kabuto superiority in CQC and reflexes is going to lose to Nagato who you think is just physically superior.

I don't know how hard it is to understand simple text. It clearly says the organic body is being made into a weapon material - ''One of Rikudo's techniques where arms/weapons are summoned (w/ Kuchiyose) make ones own body into a weapon.'' Stop adding words or context not mentioned in the entry. Corpses have organs too, lol; they just don't function. So I stand correct on this.

I hoped that it wasnt for you.

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. And we have seen

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. So the best way to interpret the DB is that their own body dont get replaced but actually gets/summons extra perks. BTW DB3 states the corpses was modified by Nagato so you dont have a point. Its says it on his rocket punch jutsu.

When have the summons been killed? Because I could have swore they disappeared and were then summoned back completely fine. Even Nagato died and revived in Edo Tensei still summoned them perfectly. So this proves they're immortal. Do they disappear after being killed? Yes, but they are immortal. Poison tactics aren't working in that case.

Not literally. But clearly they take any damage as if they are alive so you dont have a point. Edo Hanzo supports my case. He was exposed by poison and it still effected his immortal body. And Kabuto could not control the body that couldnt move from the effects.

Genjutsu? All that did was dismantle Nagato's control over the corpses. They weren't killed because, well...they're corpses. They can be shut down with Genjutsu or blows to the point Nagato cannot move them anymore.

Same as above.

They get taken out by ST.

Your broad statement does not illustrate a complete counter. When I said:

1. Kabuto makes Clones
2. Clones and Kabuto have their own task.
3. Clones are spaced out and separated.

If Nagato decides to take one out with ST, the other 2 takes advantages of the 5 sec opening.

Now if you meant a 360 version then that is your fault for not explaining it, yet its range of the attack, that wouldnt considered to be CST (which is restricted).

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First, he doesn't say they are produced the same way Kimmimaro's bones. I don't know you interpreted that. All he says is he produces them from his mouth; through Chakra obviously. Kimmimaro's bones are organic, literally his bones manipulated by Chakra. I have an image which symbolizes the liquid is Chakra flowing through his metal. It gets absorbed via Preta Path.

Bold is strawman. I never said Kidomaru said this. I illustrated that they carry the same priorities. Kidomaru's body is literally modified. extra arms, extra eye for accuracy power up, and material webs produce, form in he option of stickiness or in Gold. The very scan YOU cropped out shows that this jutsu is part of Kidomaru's body. The very context says its not only from his mouth both from every part of his body.

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Thats not liquid chakra. Thats the body fluids creating and producing chakra-blocking metal so you dont have a point.

Case and point.

And lol at the last sentence. Your exaggeration of techniques is always your negative habits on debate. Clear forest? Nagato can't block it? This is just laughable. He can sacrifice his immortal Animal Path summons, which are all sorts of variety are blocking option or just repels them with ST.

Enough with the selective reading. I said in its path, not that it can literally clear the whole damn forest.

Your premised as Nagato's summons occupied by Shadow Clone, 8 branch Clone, and Manda2. Which they get stomped on. And I literally addressed by the fact that the arrows can be maneuver mid flight so it doesnt directly get blocked but guided towards Nagato. And that Panda has no blocking power capable of stopping the force drill of that arrow. Then you just ignored the fact that White Snake poison adds an additional perk that even if blocked its gg.

@Bold I literally use this jutsu in my premise for the opening gap of ST already used on something or someone else.

The Jutsu was he could shoot his hand off; the rest was purely physical power.

It packs power based on the fact that it has chakra covered in it so not relevant to Asura actual physical power:

DB3

After the body modification done by the Asura Path, this technique launches a detached part of an arm, using it as a projectile weapon. With a small-scale explosion, caused by chakra collected in the cut end of the wrist, the hand portion gains propulsive power and flies off in a straight line with tremendous force. Its destructive power is great enough to easily break through even thick bedrock. The hand portion is protected with chakra, which allows it to remain unscathed. The chakra in the wrist draws the hand back like a magnet, reattaching it again.

And I repeat: Then you have yet countered why Kabuto superiority in CQC and reflexes is going to lose to Nagato who you think is just physically superior.

Yes, they are. Can Kimmimaro's bones survive the most heated Jutsu? No. Can Kimimaro's bones survive Chidori/Raikage's Raiton finger? No. It has no feats of such thing.

Lol Kimmi bone heat-resistance is not relevant to if Rods can pierce its hardness.
@Bold I have no idea what you are talking about unless you are arguing that Rods have piercing power as Chidori then you have it point, but it doesnt so you dont.

The rods can be used as medium for Preta Path. [

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] While the rods are in contact with Kabuto, Nagato uses Preta Path via the rods to absorb Kidomaru's metal, then he projects it to stab Kabuto, suppressing his Chakra network. The same thing that was used to render ET Hashirama and Tobirama immobile will be used on Kabuto.

You scan doesnt support your case. And it contradicts manga based on the fact Madara needed to personally engaged a stun Edo Hashirama to use chakra absorption, when he could of done that by making the hand seals to.

Rods are once again blocked by Bones or blocked by chakra blocker armor.

And once against Nagato dies a horrible death in Close Quarters that I addressed in my first post.

You got it wrong here. On Naruto, Nagato never attempted to hit on his vital organs (where Chakra points are located) because he wanted to keep him alive. On Hashirama, Madara suppressed him after he was revived. [

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] Tobirama never used a Jutsu once hit. Neither Kabuto will.

@Bold[

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] thats Suiton: Heavenly Weeping so wrong <-- While Kabuto has shown efficient chakra control which you can say superior to Tobirama. via medical specilist, withstanding and adapting to DNA/body modifications, and mastering Sage Mode.

So your premise of Rods being a factor of winning gets thrown out the window regardless.

Kimmi Bones gg
Gold armor chakra blocker gg
Hydricfication shed gg
Oral Rebirth gg

---

Firstly, I know what counters my opposition will attempt to use: Muki Tensei. He will say Kabuto can manipulate the rocks attracted by CT, but this is fallacy. There is no single evidence Muki Tensei can manipulate rocks that are attracted by powerful gravity, so powerful it can rip off mountain range and layer of earth through Pain; indisputably Nagato's version will be much more powerful at healthy state. There is actually no feat of Muki Tensei manipulating rocks of mountain range. His only feat is manipulating a cave, so any attempt to say he can use it much greater range than a cave is non-existent feat; in other words, fanfic. Kabuto gets locked in a beautiful CT; either he dies from being crush to death or he is sealed.

Edogawa do you need feats to say Nagato version will be stronger then Pain's and therefore fan fic? No you are correct on that based on the fact that manga supports this statement.

Then I can literally make this argument the same for Kabuto and Muki Tensei.

Lets get more info on how Muki Tensei function based on DB4 source:

The Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation allows the user to breathe life into inorganic substances by filling the atmosphere with natural energy.

Here the DB clearly explains to us the range Kabuto jutsu can touch with Muki Tensei via the atmosphere. Now in no way will I argue that this means the entire atmosphere of Earth is capable of being under control by Kabuto but I will say that the context of its range is similar to the portrayal by SM Hashirama Buddha I quote:

Wood Release: Veritable 1000-Armed Kan'on , the user releases a tremendous amount of natural energy from their body into the atmosphere to create a giant buddha statue, which they can then control with wood release.

Based on the fact that Kabuto controlling the wholecave shows that this isnt his limit. Based on the DB describing similar context of Kabuto's and Hashirama natural energy range, it is fair to say that Kabuto control expands around the box range of SM Hashirama's Buddha size.

So in the end Kabuto isnt getting sealed when he has options. Manda2 could still be with him. Which can rip through bedrock easily.

The rocks are force to follow the commands of opening space for Kabuto to escape.

2. The rocks can be force to use its entire weight and mass to further squeeze or crush the core itself via Itachi's plan using strongest attack and attraction force to destroy it.

3. The rocks can give room for Kabuto to absorb the core itself, using

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[*] Nagato can pull off his soul via Human Path.

[*] Nagato can suppress his movements via black rods.

[*] Nagato can outlast him.[/LIST]

1. Have yet made a argument of Nagato getting the upper hand in CQC when Human Path is needed to subjugate the opponent

2. Was rebuttal by the fact Kabuto not only owns in CQC and reflexes to avoid any lands, but as multiple ways of blocking or escaping the jutsus

3. The only argument you made of Nagato outlasting is being completely new from King of the Hell. You dropped that point since the first post as it clearly shows that this premise:

What scenario would Nagato let Kabuto watch him walk in and walk out? I can think of 2 scenarios where Nagato would be screwed if he decide to go inside. Kabuto can use a snake summon, that would suffice of eating the King and Reverse Summon out. The match would end by BFR in this likely scenario.

Or

Kabuto can use his surrounding as an advantage creating a cave via Muki Tensei. Then ends it with White Rage full effect once he comes out.

Ends the game.

Thats all folks.

 

[LoZelda101]

Yes a Perfect Jin Gaara > Killer Bee. :lol denying this is ignorant.Not like you have any credibility to my knowledge. I haven't even seen a post from you in the VS thread. Don't judge people you have no knowledge of.

lmao. k

 

[DrProof]

Alright bruhs. I'll look over it again, and start my judging.

 

[NarutoX28]

So it's 3 posts instead of 2. I guess I need to make some revisions to my judgement then.

 

[TRE MERCER]

So it's 3 posts instead of 2. I guess I need to make some revisions to my judgement then.

Ejblack better had won since he was debating with Manda II.

 

[EZQ]

Okay i'm starting the veredict now

 

[DrProof]

Like I said in the other thread. The hurricane is hitting us hard, and my internet is shoddy. Will post my judgement asap.

 

[NarutoX28]

logical choice out of the 3

I appreciate the compliment, but Dr. Proof is actually a very good debater.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Like I said in the other thread. The hurricane is hitting us hard, and my internet is shoddy. Will post my judgement asap.

No problem

So it's 3 posts instead of 2. I guess I need to make some revisions to my judgement then.

I would have thought you have finished your verdict by now uttahere:

 

[NarutoX28]

No problem



I would have thought you have finished your verdict by now uttahere:

Sorry, been occupied with NarutoForums, I'll get it done asap though it does help that my opinion hasn't changed.