Madara/Hashirama VoTE explosion

[KidGamer65]

Me and DA are arguing about the explosion and whether or not PS and SS took damage from both attacks due it being an explosion containing the power of both attacks (or mainly PS considering it was hit by the fists and the explosion) and figured it'd be easier to make a thread than do it via VM.

Except there are some pretty big fundamental diffrences between the two. With Naruto and Sasuke, their clashes are been two energy attacks that both detonate inbetween them both fo them an equal distance from the attack

With Madara and Hashirama, all the BD were located around or behind its arms. So when comparing the insane size diffrence been SS and Kurama, and the distance between them when they clashes, Madara likely wouldn't have been in the explosion based on distance alone. My main point though, is based on the damage taken respectively in each clash.

Yes, they are both energy attacks in Naruto and Sasuke's case, but how does that prove your point? But no, Hashirama and Madara were both located at the center of the explosion just like Hashirama and Madara.

And lmao Madara was in that explosion and there's no way you can argue otherwise if you've looked at all the scans. First of all, this was the distance between them before the clash. They ran closer to each other as those panels show. So unless the combined explosion was smaller than a regular Mountain there's no way Madara wasn't in it. Not to mention Madara and Hashirama were right behind the lake as that scan shows. The explosion covers from the edge of the lake (and then some) and stretches past multiple Mountain Ranges. [X] So again, no way that PS wasn't in that explosion.

And how does that disprove anything I'm saying? The Avatars lost the arms because the arms soaked up that damage. But if their arms weren't used to soak up most of the damage, i.e. if their Avatars were just both in the middle of that explosion then the damage would've been done elsewhere and not just the arms. How does that change the fact you will need an explosion larger than that (in terms of BD) to destroy Susanoo? How does that disprove that PS and SS didn't receive damage from both attacks?

At VOTE2 when BD and Chidori clashes, the avatars only lost their arms and sides that were used for the clash, with no visible damage to anything else. This is because the arms took all the damage and left the rest of the avatars unharmed. If clashes worked they way your suggesting, then anything on the avatars that have the same durability as the arms or less, would have been destroyed.

At VOTE1 after the clash, only the arms on SS are destroyed. Neither the body of SS nor Hashirama have received any visible damage, and both of them were closer to the detonation than PS.

The point is where the damage originates and how both avatars are taking damage is different. SS was striking PS while the BD all flew up behind SS HERE. Madara used PS blades with the BD specifically to cleave through the hands and attack the main structure.

How much farther they ran towards each other isn't something we can gauge, for all intents and purposes that was around the distance they were when they started attacking each other. The Arms of SS could fully extend in the panels of it striking PS if they were much closer. Your also highly underestimating the size of the arms, SS is already a few times taller than a mountain and the arms are almost two and half times taller than the main structure. The arms are staggeringly wider and extend out an obscene distance. When you look at the whole scan too, you can see that the Hotei isn't even as big as SS's head

Nope. You only see a single BD actually behind the main body of SS, and that's not even behind the backpack of arms. The other one shown is in front of it/above it and the rest aren't shown. not like it matters anyway because

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distance is absolutely not in any measure wider than the range of

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explosion. Like I already said, SS and PS were at the shore of the lake right behind them.

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is approximately where SS and PS are located. Right behind that lake. So they are covered by the entire explosion.

That scan also further proves that only the hands took damage from the BD. Not even all of the hands were destroyed, when the BD's detonation was behind SS. It also shows it discarding the mount with whats left of the hands, absolutely nothing else damaged not even Hashirama who's standing on SS's head. The combined 'explosion' you see is a combination of SS punching the ground and kicking up dust along with BD destroying all of the hands, anyway.

Its to show the difference in the examples. SS's arms soaked up all of the damage from BD and Madara was caught in the part of the explosion caused by SS's strikes, if PS was damaged by the BD's then so should have Hashirama's main structure. Or at least destroyed all the arms.

SS's main body wasn't damaged because SS's arms took the damage from said explosion. Madara has no such thing taking the damage away from the body of his Avatar so there's no reason that his PS wouldn't take damage. If you are saying that PS wouldn't be damaged because SS's arms took all that damage then that also wouldn't hold as an argument since by that logic only Naruto OR Sasuke, not both, would've taken damage from both of their respective clashes at VoTE 2.

And no, all of the hands itself was destroyed. The actual backpack not being vaporized doesn't prove anything besides the fact that the explosion isn't strong enough to obliterate it.

And no, that's not dust. Dust is smoke.

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is an explosion.

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is an explosion. Look exactly the same but there's absolutely no argument one can make to try and say the latter is dust.

 

[Unorthodox]

Buts it's obviously dust as you can see dust particles in the debris, yes they both withstood it

 

[ARGUS]

Both SS and PS were in the epicentre of the explosion caused by 12 TBB and Chojo
So both of them took their combined attacks

 

[Unorthodox]

Both SS and PS were in the epicentre of the explosion caused by 12 TBB and Chojo
So both of them took their combined attacks

How where they in the epicenter when the BDS flew past them

 

[Lord Tywin]

If you look at the scan in question, you can clearly see that "explosion" is not one giant one, but multiple small ones. And that explosion isn't even an explosion. SS hands do not produce explosions. It's clearly the dust produced from the punches of SS, as scans show clearly when SS was punching PS, dust was forming. Another reason that can't be an explosion is the fact that Madara is intelligent. Why would he put himself in the vicinity of his own bladed bijuudama blasts? He clearly fired his attack from a distance that left him just outside of the blast radius of the bijuudamas. PS didn't tank all of those attacks, merely SS punches

 

[Waltz]

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Spoiler

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i. Wood chips shown being blown off the arms construct through the smoke of the explosion.
ii. Smoke directly coming off of the base of arms on arm construct denoting they were burnt to that point.
iii. No smoke in between Madara's and Hashirama's view point.
iv. Majority of smoke coming from arm construct and behind the kyuubi

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(Shin-Shuusenju's arms).

Other factors:

i. Much larger arms would change the trajectory of the BD's resulting in them running over and through the sides of the arms eventually reaching the back as it would require less work for them to do so.
ii. No BD's exploded on the Main body but as high as the top of the shield.

The Bijuu Dama mauled through many of the incoming arms and the force of this altered their trajectory until they were posterior to SS's Main body then upon impact blew and burn off the arms on the construct. Susano'o was removed from the punches as it was shown to be the case during the collision.

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​

 

[TRE MERCER]

PS didn't take any of the explosion. The Bijuudama's were already behide SS main body when they went off. Ps damage came strictly from SS.

 

[Edogawa]

There were no explosion to be viewed from reader's perspective. An explosion would have energy sphere, but what's seen is smoke dust resulted from SS's punches. Biju Dama's did detonate, but they can't be seen because the dust smoke is engulfing it. PS didn't take damage because the TBB's detonated outside PS's position.

 

[ARGUS]

How where they in the epicenter when the BDS flew past them

TBB didn't fly past them, it hit the backpack of SS
All while Chojo hit PS
Both of these happened simultaneously and formed the giant explosion which was what caught them both

 

[Unorthodox]

TBB didn't fly past them, it hit the backpack of SS
All while Chojo hit PS
Both of these happened simultaneously and formed the giant explosion which was what caught them both

Pretty sure Walt's just debunked you

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Me and DA are arguing about the explosion and whether or not PS and SS took damage from both attacks due it being an explosion containing the power of both attacks (or mainly PS considering it was hit by the fists and the explosion) and figured it'd be easier to make a thread than do it via VM.



Nope. You only see a single BD actually behind the main body of SS, and that's not even behind the backpack of arms. The other one shown is in front of it/above it and the rest aren't shown. not like it matters anyway because

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distance is absolutely not in any measure wider than the range of

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explosion. Like I already said, SS and PS were at the shore of the lake right behind them.

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is approximately where SS and PS are located. Right behind that lake. So they are covered by the entire explosion.



SS's main body wasn't damaged because SS's arms took the damage from said explosion. Madara has no such thing taking the damage away from the body of his Avatar so there's no reason that his PS wouldn't take damage. If you are saying that PS wouldn't be damaged because SS's arms took all that damage then that also wouldn't hold as an argument since by that logic only Naruto OR Sasuke, not both, would've taken damage from both of their respective clashes at VoTE 2.

And no, all of the hands itself was destroyed. The actual backpack not being vaporized doesn't prove anything besides the fact that the explosion isn't strong enough to obliterate it.

And no, that's not dust. Dust is smoke.

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is an explosion.

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is an explosion. Look exactly the same but there's absolutely no argument one can make to try and say the latter is dust.

Put the other post in the OP if you could pretty please. I'll try to reply tonight but I might have a money match lined up in mahvel. So either I'll reply at work if I get a bored stretch or tommorow

 

[Unorthodox]

TBB didn't fly past them, it hit the backpack of SS
All while Chojo hit PS
Both of these happened simultaneously and formed the giant explosion which was what caught them both

Pretty sure Walt's just debunked you

 

[Eng nawashi]

No way SS took damage from his own attack .SS's attacks are mere punches .how can SS take damage from punching PS with its fists ?
On the other hand ,Madara's PS was destroyed mainly by SS punches .PS was caught in the explosion of his TTB but it didn't take direct hit .we already know that the power at the centre of the TTB explosion is way stronger than the power at its outskirts .

 

[Waltz]

No way SS took damage from his own attack .SS's attacks are mere punches .how can SS take damage from punching PS with its fists ?
On the other hand ,Madara's PS was destroyed mainly by SS punches .PS was caught in the explosion of his TTB but it didn't take direct hit .we already know that the power at the centre of the TTB explosion is way stronger than the power at its outskirts .

Where exactly are you saying they detonated for the explosions to have affected the Susano'o? ​

 

[Eng nawashi]

Where exactly are you saying they detonated for the explosions to have affected the Susano'o? ​

I amont sure where it exploded.probably behind SS . PS was most likely caught by the blast .not a direct hit though .

 

[Waltz]

I amont sure where it exploded.probably behind SS . PS was most likely caught by the blast .not a direct hit though .

If the explosions occurred posterior to Shin-shuusenju, how is the Susano'o Damaged when there would have been Shin-Shuusenju's Main body, the Construct on it's back with the base of the arms and possibly debris from the arms which made impact all between it and the explosive force of the Bijuu Dama? It mingling with the surroundings is doable but my opinion is that the explosive force is not affecting the Susano'o if it couldn't blast it's way completely through Shin-Shuusenju. ​

 

[KidGamer65]

No way SS took damage from his own attack .SS's attacks are mere punches .how can SS take damage from punching PS with its fists ?
On the other hand ,Madara's PS was destroyed mainly by SS punches .PS was caught in the explosion of his TTB but it didn't take direct hit .we already know that the power at the centre of the TTB explosion is way stronger than the power at its outskirts .

Chidori also doesn't explode, yet Sasuke took damage from that and Bijuu Dama when he clashed with Naruto. So either:

-The explosion is a representation of both attack's energies and SS took damage from the BD
-The explosion is only a representation of the Bijuu Dama because SS's fists aren't an energy attack like DA mentioned.
-Half the explosion was caused by SS's fists, but only that is what damaged PS and the other half was caused by Madara, but then only that part (caused by the BD) is what damaged SS.


Which one do you agree with?

And the explosion covered the entire area Madara and Hashirama were in. If one was in the outskirts then the other has to be in the outskirts because they were at most a few Mountain distances away from each other while that explosion spanned multiple Mountain Ranges.

If the explosions occurred posterior to Shin-shuusenju, how is the Susano'o Damaged when there would have been Shin-Shuusenju's Main body, the Construct on it's back with the base of the arms and possibly debris from the arms which made impact all between it and the explosive force of the Bijuu Dama? It mingling with the surroundings is doable but my opinion is that the explosive force is not affecting the Susano'o if it couldn't blast it's way completely through Shin-Shuusenju. ​

Now I see what you guys mean with the it exploded behind SS point. But where are you getting every single BD exploding from behind the statue's main body from? And answer my post to Eng nawashi too. Curious what you have to say.

DA you answer too when you get the chance.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

If the explosions occurred posterior to Shin-shuusenju, how is the Susano'o Damaged when there would have been Shin-Shuusenju's Main body, the Construct on it's back with the base of the arms and possibly debris from the arms which made impact all between it and the explosive force of the Bijuu Dama? It mingling with the surroundings is doable but my opinion is that the explosive force is not affecting the Susano'o if it couldn't blast it's way completely through Shin-Shuusenju. ​

A good example for most people would be;

You have a person like 10 feet away from a wall, and a grenade goes off on the other side. If the wall is unscathed and everything else on the other side is destroyed then it's illogical to assume the person would be hurt

Chidori also doesn't explode, yet Sasuke took damage from that and Bijuu Dama when he clashed with Naruto. So either:

-The explosion is a representation of both attack's energies and SS took damage from the BD
-The explosion is only a representation of the Bijuu Dama because SS's fists aren't an energy attack like DA mentioned.
-Half the explosion was caused by SS's fists, but only that is what damaged PS and the other half was caused by Madara, but then only that part (caused by the BD) is what damaged SS.


Which one do you agree with?

And the explosion covered the entire area Madara and Hashirama were in. If one was in the outskirts then the other has to be in the outskirts because they were at most a few Mountain distances away from each other while that explosion spanned multiple Mountain Ranges.



Now I see what you guys mean with the it exploded behind SS point. But where are you getting every single BD exploding from behind the statue's main body from? And answer my post to Eng nawashi too. Curious what you have to say.

DA you answer too when you get the chance.

Do you still want me to counter the previous post or just what you said here?

 

[KidGamer65]

A good example for most people would be;

You have a person like 10 feet away from a wall, and a grenade goes off on the other side. If the wall is unscathed and everything else on the other side is destroyed then it's illogical to assume the person would be hurt



Do you still want me to counter the previous post or just what you said here?

Just focus and what I said here since it's the important stuff.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Just focus and what I said here since it's the important stuff.

Oh aight. The explosion we see at VOTE is representation of both attack's and all the debris it kicked up. The only reason I mention debris is because it makes it hard to tell how much each attack contributed to the overall blast.

Them all getting behind SS was what I felt like was the logical conclusion. If they interrupted them then you would see explosions in the panels of Madara getting punched since SS would have done so by then, but you don't. If the 2 or 3 you see in the panel with SS mauled through all the hands I don't see what's stopping the others from doing so either.

Wernt you one of the ones that convinced me that Chidori does explode tho?