[VS] Kimmimaro VS Neji

[Simbv]

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Show me where in the manga it says the chakra network is a few inches below the skin, its hard reading your post. If you can prove that i may concede. Kido and Kimmi's techniques are not the same, one produces a shield over the skin and one under, i fail to see how producing bones under the skin would save kimi.

 

[Private Investigator]

Show me where in the manga it says the chakra network is a few inches below the skin, its hard reading your post. If you can prove that i may concede. Kido and Kimmi's techniques are not the same, one produces a shield over the skin and one under, i fail to see how producing bones under the skin would save kimi.

. . .

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This photo depicts the chakra pathways to be below the skin. Lee relates the chakra system to the bodies veins. The veins are directly below the skin, and spread out further throughout the body. The chakra system must be below the initial veins. Even if they are not, Kimimaro is capable of manipulating the amount of bones in his system. If he wishes to create a bone layer, or layers (which he's already done canonically) literally underneath the skin, on top of veins, and chakra pathways he would/could do so.

This would disable a Hyuga's chakra from entering their target's chakra system, causing their subjecting chakra to become void.

 

[Simbv]

. . .

AH yes this scan. I remember arguing with someone about this at another point, bones are organs. That means bones have chakra points and a chakra network, and Neji would be able to damage Kimi's bones with Jyuken. Meaning that Kimi would have to continually sprout bone after bone after bone to stop Neji from damaging him.

 

[Private Investigator]

. . .

Forming a bone layer under every part of skin on the human body, would disallow the Hyuga's harmful chakra from being inducted in Kimimaro's chakra system. Similar to how Kidomaru uses golden armor to block the chakra from entering his system externally, Kimimaro does so internally.

 

[Simbv]

. . .

Not sure what you are exclaiming but ok. Like i said before the chakra pathway system is enmeshed into the body and like blood vessels it touches and interacts with every single living cell and passes through every organ. Bones are organs. Which comes back to my point of Kimi having to continually sprout bones to keep Neji from damaging him. Which he won't be able to do with Neji's extremely fast taijutsu.

 

[Private Investigator]

AH yes this scan. I remember arguing with someone about this at another point, bones are organs. That means bones have chakra points and a chakra network, and Neji would be able to damage Kimi's bones with Jyuken.

. . .

Chakra points aren't capable of multiplying, there are 361 nodes within the human body. Kimimaro is stated to be able to increase the number of bones within his body as many times as he wishes. Once again I will iterate, the 361 tenketsu (as it would provide fallacy to the chakra system) are unable to be changed. With that fact noted, the new bones Kimimaro creates will be free of the 361 tenketsu restriction, because they are newly formed through the calcium cells manipulated by his KKG.

Once again I will state that the 361 tenketsu cannot be changed, they are stationary, they cannot move position, they cannot be multiplied etc.

The new bones Kimimaro forms, will be free of the chakra points that normal organs would possess, blocking the Hyuga's chakra insertion, and rendering the internal damage chakra null.

 

[Simbv]

. . .

Show me manga scans where it states that Kimi's bones will be free of chakra and a chakra network. And stop debating so annoyingly.

 

[Private Investigator]

Show me manga scans where it states that Kimi's bones will be free of chakra. And stop debating so annoyingly.

. . .

Gentle Fist works, by inserting chakra into another source of chakra (it can connect with), or by connecting with one of the 361 tenketsu littered throughout the human body.

The newly formed bones contain chakra, but do not have tenketsu (because chakra is not released from the newly formed bones, they are only formed by manipulating chakra to construct them with the calcium cells within Kimimaro's body). Gentle Fist being unable to connect with the chakra inside (if we infer chakra even exist within the newly formed organs that serve no purpose for the bodies overall functions) becomes void.

Nothing happens, in the same manner Gentle Fist had no effect on Kidomaru.

 

[Simbv]

. . .

If the newly form bones contain Chakra, which you just agreed to them having, they can be destroyed.

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Besides i see no scan or proof of them not having a chakra network anyways, so ill take that W.

 

[Private Investigator]

If the newly form bones contain Chakra, which you just agreed to them having, they can be destroyed.

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Besides i see no scan or proof of them not having a chakra network anyways, so ill take that W.

. . .

How does a single organ have an entire chakra network. That as I said previously, would go against the 361 tenketsu rule within the human body. You shouldn't have even edited your post to add that within your post, as it simply brings fallacy as I again, stated in my earlier post to the chakra system.

No, my friend. I said:

If we infer the newly created bones possess chakra.

They are disconnected from the chakra system (the 361 nodes in which receive, and send chakra to the multiple connected organs within the human's body). The newly formed bones, that are disconnected from the chakra pathway, and their 361 tenketsu containing chakra wouldn't make sense. Thus, disabling Gentle Fist from affecting them.

 

[Simbv]

. . .

Acoording to the manga, anything that possesses chakra can be destroyed with Neji's jyuken, which is enough for me to be confident that Neji can destroy it. WE both agreed that they have chakra right? Furthermore, you still haven't proven my point about the chakra points. They might be disconnected from Kimi's 361 chakra points INSIDE his body, but that doesn't factor in that they wouldn't have their own. IF you disagree show me a scan that proves otherwise. It would be useless anyway if you did find one, since his bones do in fact contain chakra.

 

[Private Investigator]

Acoording to the manga, anything that possesses chakra can be destroyed with Neji's jyuken, which is enough for me to be confident that Neji can destroy it. WE both agreed that they have chakra right? Furthermore, you still haven't proven my point about the chakra points. They might be disconnected from Kimi's 361 chakra points INSIDE his body, but that doesn't factor in that they wouldn't have their own. IF you disagree show me a scan that proves otherwise. It would be useless anyway if you did find one, since his bones do in fact contain chakra.

. . .

Chakra points cannot be multiplied, this is fact. What you're not understanding is this:

Neji Hyūga noted that any chakra-based substance can be destroyed by this technique. As seen in his fight with Kidōmaru, it is done by leaking chakra from the chakra openings in one's hands and moulding it into a needle-like shape to slice through the chakra. In contrast, Kidōmaru managed to devise a method that prevented the chakra from being injected into the body, thus negating the main impact of the Gentle Fist through physical contact.

Gentle Fist chakra is expunged, and injected through human pours. If those pours are layered by multiple layers of thick, dense bone then there is no possible way for the Hyuga's chakra to deconstruct its target.

Think about it. Simple chakra destroying dense, hardened bone. I don't think so. It's clear as day, that that wouldn't happen.

 

[Simbv]

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So now you are going against the manga huh? Understood.

 

[KidGamer65]

Forget the rest because they'll drag on forever.



- Gentle Fist is used to attack the vitals. What makes little sense is how you can conclude "Every Human can do this" but fail to address every human't can't do this with aspects of Gentle Fist". The bold is stated in the Databook 3 after stating it's used to attack the vitals. Please then, explain to us the "aspects of Gentle Fist" in tis case. It's ridiculous we're arguing this when the Byakugan is even stated to pin point he vitals and then attacked with aspects of gentle fist. Come on on bro.

And lmao no. We aren't forgetting the rest. He was clearly shown not taking any damage. Thus you are wrong. You can't just ignore it and continue to argue your point as if you aren't absolutely incorrect.

Do you even know what vital spots are? Vital spots are the pressure points of the human body. In real life people can apply force to pressure points in the neck to subdue and knock out an enemy. Byakugan lets the Hyuga target all of these spots as they can see all of these spots in perfect detail. DB states that Air Palm shoots Condensed air to send force through these pressure points. That's not internal damage like Gentle fist is and this can't get any simpler. The fact I'm even explaining this after the Manga has already proved my point is pretty funny.

The Gentle Fist fighting style lets Neji target all of the pressure points on the body while regular humans can't do so because they can't see all these pressure points. That is the only aspect it shares with the gentle fist fighting style. You don't need Gentle Fist's internal damaging capabilities to deal damage to the pressure points as real life shows you. Nothing in that databook says that Air Palm does internal damage. Kisame did not take damage as Kishimoto has shown. Who's right here, me with evidence from the Manga and the guy who wrote the Manga or you who is misinterpreting a DB scan? :lol

- 80 Gods Vacuum attack is ridiculously irrelevant here and I shouldn't have to say. Hyuugas are used with aspect of Gentle fist. That's not the same case for Kaguya or her attack that contains NO ASPECT OF GENTLE FIST. The DB4 entry of 80 Gods states "The fist attacks can also be used defensively", if we talk of similarity, then pin point this particular point considering the fact that Vacuum wall was used as a form of defense again the Juubi's hand while protecting members of the alliance. Similarity doesn't change the full use of the Jutsu.

Lmao it's hilarious how far you guys will reach to try and prove this ridiculous argument. Kaguya and the Hyuga's technique is stated to be similar with the only noted difference between the power and the shape of the condensed air. Straight from the databook. Kaguya's doesn't do internal damage. Thus Vacuum Palm won't do internal damage either.

Bold is a ridiculous reach. Two techs being used for defense doesn't make them similar. :lol You cannot be serious with any of this.

-DB said they are similar.
-DB notes differences.
-DB says there is a wide gulf in power between the two.

No one reading that entry with a clear and unbiased mind would come to the conclusion that they are similar because they both can be used defensively.

Even subsequent entries for Air Palm only state that chakra is loaded into the palms and then released with a thrust. All this internal damage business is fanfiction.

Again, several Hyuuga attacks don't require the Byakugan for them to be used, but like I showed you, Gentle fist attacks aimed at the vitals with precision require the Byakugan as stated for this Jutsu. Address the aspects of the Byakugan being used to pin point the vitals with precision since every other human couldlol) and while you're at it, address the fact that "the technique with aspects of Gentle fist" thrust through the enemy's vital. Explain the use of that Gentle fist here and those aspects. Ridiculous but if you still argue this, then there's 100% reason for us not to drag this on. You agree for sure.

Irrelevant. Gentle Fist attacks are aimed at the vitals with the Byakugan just like Air Palm. That doesn't mean that Air Palm does internal damage in the same manner as Gentle Fist. Makes zero sense. Stop telling me to address things when I've yet to see you or anyone else in this thread actually address the fact that Kisame was not injured.

Yes this is correct, had to rush while responding so didn't have time to cross check this. I've however seen points from Draegod in the past that can be used while debating this in particular.

- Kisame's clone didn't show any sign of pain while hit by Gai's initial Asakujaku kick that can kill an individual at once but screamed heavily from an ordinary punch from 7G Gai and even from Base Gai.

- Kisame also showed zero agony whole burning constanly

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- Itachi screamed from an ordinary Shrunken here and in the next page

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but the Itachi clones smiles after being hit by a Rasengan?

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, something that I just noticed could make Deva of all people (known not to feel pain) scream

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-Gai's initial kick being able to kill an ordinary person doesn't mean that Kisame's clone automatically has to show signs of pain from it. Not to mention we aren't arguing pain. We are arguing damaged. You can clearly see blood coming from his mouth. That's a sign of damage that Kishimoto put there to let us know that he was damaged. Such thing is absent when Air Palm hit Kisame.

-Lmao. Because he was dead. Come on now. :lol

-And this is irrelevant, again. We aren't arguing whether or not they feel pain we are arguing whether or not there was damage down. Illustrated damage is shown in every single case. There is none for Air Palm yet you want to claim it did damage. Based on literally nothing. It's ridiculous to actually sit here and argue that Kishimoto had Kisame take damage AND heal himself but he conveniently forgot to illustrate it.

Vacuum Palm in one go doesn't do as much damage as these attacks and one thing to factor in is the fact that ordinary punches and elbows can make one scream in the top of this scan(

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)but Palm bottom which is a variant of Gentle fist can make not scream in the bottom while eliminating them (

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) . Vacuum palm doesn't have to completely damage as the physically touched attacks but yes, it in fact does at some damage internally. Whether minimal in one go compared to others and attacks shown, but it does. Either way, I still argued for Neji winning here whether to not we don't agree on these points.

And I'm not even going to touch on you using the pain tolerance of a kid Naruto to help prove your point.

 

[Private Investigator]

-Concession-

. . .

There's no speculation. The mechanics are similar to how Kidomaru's gold armor disallows chakra to flow into his body; by creating an airtight, gap-less structure. If chakra cannot find a way of entrance, then chakra cannot damage. End of story. Show me Neji, or any Hyuga inserting chakra to destroy a solid material that doesn't have any crevices, or open gaps.

I'll wait. If you cannot, I'll accept your concession.

 

[Jinrou]

. . .

I actually think you're wrong in comparing Kidomaru's armor and Kimimaro's bones.
One question. Chidori vs Kidomaru's armor. What is your opinion on the result?

 

[Private Investigator]

I actually think you're wrong in comparing Kidomaru's armor and Kimimaro's bones.
One question. Chidori vs Kidomaru's armor. What is your opinion on the result?

. . .

You can think what you want. At the end of the day, the Hyuga have not shown to insert chakra into solid material with no openings, and destroy the target. The Hyuga have only used Gentle Fist on: Human; which contain pours. Pours = holes for chakra insertion (which is how the Hyuga even expunge their own chakra in the first place) - Water Dome (Kisames); Neji injected his chakra into the water dome, destroying it.

If the chakra isn't directly exposed, or there aren't any pathways to it, Gentle Fist isn't getting to it. It's quite simple.

Obviously Chidori smashes through the defense. Kidomaru's defense isn't about durability, it's about security.

 

[Simbv]

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I didn't concede, i still have point on points on points. Just making sure that you know that you are going against what the manga explicitly states. That being said Kido's armor and Kimi's bones are two different things. We have agreed on one containing chakra(kimi's bones). While kido's armor is unknown to contain chakra or not. Most likely if it did, Neji would be able to destroy it. Manga fact. With that being said, you still have the burden of proof showing me a scan where Kimi's bones do not contain chakra points, not like it would matter in the end anyway. You claim that Chakra points can't be multiplied, fine that is true. At least by normal means. Kido has the ability to sprout bones from anywhere in his body and change the shape and density of it at will. Not to mention he pulled his entire spine out, that's normal right? It would be foolish to assume that the new found bones don''t have any chakra points or system, even though they do contain chakra, and also because they are an organ(as agreed to by you). WE also came to a agreement that every organ contains chakra and a chakra pathway system. Manga Fact. Jyuken being able to destroy anything made of chakra. Manga Fact.Your speculation and assumptions are foolish in the face of the manga.

 

[Jinrou]

. . .

Chidori smashes through the defense? But didn't Kidomaru specifically point out the fact that the gold blocks Chakra?

That's where I honestly feel you're getting it wrong...I thought this was the case before also. You can't share feats. You also bring up the pores when the pores were only brought up in the manga to show where the sticky stiff came out from. Kidomaru specifically states the armor blocks all chakra. Is there any thing to suggest in the entire manga that bones have the ability to block chakra too?

 

[Private Investigator]

I didn't concede, i still have point on points on points. Just making sure that you know that you are going against what the manga explicitly states. That being said Kido's armor and Kimi's bones are two different things. We have agreed on one containing chakra(kimi's bones). While kido's armor is unknown to contain chakra or not. Most likely if it did, Neji would be able to destroy it. Manga fact. With that being said, you still have the burden of proof showing me a scan where Kimi's bones do not contain chakra points, not like it would matter in the end anyway. You claim that Chakra points can't be multiplied, fine that is true. At least by normal means. Kido has the ability to sprout bones from anywhere in his body and change the shape and density of it at will. Not to mention he pulled his entire spine out, that's normal right? It would be foolish to assume that the new found bones don''t have any chakra points or system, even though they do contain chakra, and also because they are an organ(as agreed to by you). WE also came to a agreement that every organ contains chakra and a chakra pathway system. Manga Fact. Jyuken being able to destroy anything made of chakra. Manga Fact.Your speculation and assumptions are foolish in the face of the manga.

. . .

It's simple as to why Gentle Fist cannot destroy Kimimaro's bones. Gentle Fist needs an entrance. In every use of Gentle Fist, it's had an entrance for the Hyuga's chakra to take effect: Kisame vs Team 8; Water Prison - Neji expunges chakra to destroy the chakra used to create the dome. The reason for this was because the chakra was exposed from the very start.

Another point in which Gentle Fist was used is vs humans; Human's have pours - pours have holes - holes are what chakra is expunged out of (the same way Hyuga use their many techniques ei; Rotation, Air Palm etc.).

What the Hyuga have not destroy have been solid objects with no path of entrance. This is vital. If there is no path of entry, their is no subjection to the Hyuga's chakra. No subjection to the Hyuga's chakra, meaning no deconstruction. It's simple. If you state otherwise, you're going against the manga. Because in every use of Gentle Fist, it's always been where the Gentle Fist user has been able to find a pathway to their target's chakra.