[VS] Rinnegan Sasuke vs. EMS Madara & SM Hashirama

[TheSages456]

What difference would that control make to turn their bodies into cores?

It obviously creates a chakra link between Sasuke and the target, but there isn't anything implying that he can perform this without the prerequisite, so it's moot.

Ordinary? No Ninjutsu Sasuke used after gaining the chakra is ordinary. He took out a meteor with an ordinary Chidori use. See where am I going with this?

This doesn't have anything to do with Hagoromo's chakra.

There is no such thing as Bijuu-PS, given that Sasuke never absorbed that Chakra nor did he merge it with his modified PS like he did with Stabilized V3 and Senjutsu.

He used his Susano'o as a container for the chakra of the 9 Biju like the Gedo Mazo.

Sasuke's PS isn't powered by Sage's Chakra? That is absolutely incorrect, given that it's a part of his chakra system now.

No, it's not and you ignored my point about Susano'o only being able to be created by Uchiha chakra, not Six Paths chakra or Six Paths Sage chakra.

The only Sage chakra that he was shown with was Hagoromo's Six Paths Power of Shadow which he was shown using for his senjutsu Chidori. He lost this after sealing Kaguya, so he no longer has a source of Sage chakra.

Shockwaves have nothing to do with PS' over all strength as they work on a different mechanism. Furthermore, there is no point in comparing inconsistent scaling to declare that his shockwave went longer and his didn't. It's pointless.

The shockwaves are created because of it's physical strength.

 

[Waltz]

but there isn't anything implying that he can perform this without the prerequisite, so it's moot..

..Oh..God. ​

 

[shelke]

It obviously creates a chakra link between Sasuke and the target, but there isn't anything implying that he can perform this without the prerequisite, so it's moot.

This doesn't have anything to do with Hagoromo's chakra.

He used his Susanoo as a container for the chakra of the 9 Biju like the Gedo Mazo.

No, it's not and you ignored my point about Susano'o only being able to be created by Uchiha chakra, not Six Paths chakra or Six Paths Sage chakra.

The only Sage chakra that he was shown with was Hagoromo's Six Paths Power of Shadow which he was shown using for his senjutsu Chidori. He lost this after sealing Kaguya, so he no longer has a source of Sage chakra.

The shockwaves are created because of it's physical strength.

What? There is no proof to this claim is there? What does Genjutsu have anything to do with creating a chakra link for forming a core that will produce a force of attraction; Gravity? This argument makes no sense whatsoever.

How doesn't it? Care to show me any EMS Sasuke's feats that even remotely matches that?

And? What does a container have anything to do with making his PS stronger when PS is Susanoo and that is a manifestation of the user's chakra?

Already covered this point in the edited post; Sage is the original source of the potent, undiluted Uchiha chakra. The dilution of the potent chakra genes Indra inherited resulted in the Uchiha. This point is completely incorrect. Going by your logic, Indra isn't an Uchiha either. How could he make a PS then?

Shockwaves are created because of speed and size, actually.

 

[NarutoX28]

It obviously creates a chakra link between Sasuke and the target, but there isn't anything implying that he can perform this without the prerequisite, so it's moot.

There's also nothing suggesting that there needs to be a chakra link established for Sasuke to even use this form of Chibaku Tensei.

 

[TRE MERCER]

What? There is no proof to this claim is there? What does Genjutsu have anything to do with creating a chakra link for forming a core that will produce a force of attraction; Gravity? This argument makes no sense whatsoever.

How doesn't it? Care to show me any EMS Sasuke's feats that even remotely matches that?

And? What does a container have anything to do with making his PS stronger when PS is Susanoo and that is a manifestation of the user's chakra?

Already covered this point in the edited post; Sage is the original source of the potent, undiluted Uchiha chakra. The dilution of the potent chakra genes Indra inherited resulted in the Uchiha. This point is completely incorrect. Going by your logic, Indra isn't an Uchiha either. How could he make a PS then?

Shockwaves are created because of speed and size, actually.

You are wrong about the shockwaves things. Shockwaves are a product of Strength.

 

[Waltz]

You are wrong about the shockwaves things. Shockwaves are a product of Strength.

...Smdh.​

 

[TRE MERCER]

...Smdh.​

They are size has 0 to do with it.

Sasuke ps is physically superior to Madara thus it's shockwaves are superior.

 

[shelke]

You are wrong about the shockwaves things. Shockwaves are a product of Strength.

Speed and size. You can say speed is produced in PS's sword strike because of more muscle power, but shockwaves themselves work on those two alone. They are produced because of waves colliding with one another. The object size will matter a lot here and its speed. That's the extremely layman gist of it in this context anyway.

I am using the logic for aerodynamic shockwaves here, as the best analogy I can think of here is the aerodynamic struture of the wings.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Speed and size. You can say speed is produced in PS because of more muscle power, but shockwaves themselves work on those two alone. They are produced because of waves colliding with one another. The object size will matter a lot here and its speed. That's the gist of anyway in this context anyway.

Im telling you it's strength. If it was based on Size them EMS Madara would have better shockwaves than Rikudo Sasuke but he doesn't.

Sasuke ps is stronger than Madara's which is why his slices are more deadlier.

 

[shelke]

Im telling you it's strength. If it was based on Size them EMS Madara would have better shockwaves than Rikudo Sasuke but he doesn't.

Sasuke ps is stronger than Madara's which is why his slices are more deadlier.

I am simply stating that shockwaves themselves are not based on strength. I am not denying that Sasuke's PS is stronger.

Also, I have edited my post. Read all of it.

 

[TheSages456]

Sasuke shockwaves travel much farther than that we seen how big the cuts in Madara ct were[

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] We can even see a chunk of rock he cut off covering mountain range[

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].

The scan you posted shows the collective rubble from 1 meteor covering as much ground as 1 mountain range, not a single fragment.

Na the debris alone would be to much for them. SS couldn't even bust open Madara's ps completely it gets wrecked by His ct[

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].

Sasuke is completely ripped through with 2 slices. Madara Ps is simply overwhelmed and out powered.

CT isn't as durable as Perfect Susano'o.

The image you posted isn't an accurate size depiction of the statue compared to mountains or the meteor.

-Mountains only come up to Shinsuusenju's knee while it's sitting down.

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-Based on how big Perfect Susano'o is in the Bijudama crater, Shinsuusenju with it's armament would take up half of that crater.

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-Madara's meteors were only as wide as the Shinju's stump

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And the Shinju's stump is only this big compared to the Bijudama crater

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So Shinsuusenju with it's armament would be wider than Madara's meteors by a significant amount.

Though I'm not seeing how this matters since Madara's CT aren't any more durable pound for pound than rock.

You haven't posted any evidence for the meteors being beyond Madara's capabilities to cut. All I saw were incoherent ideas that couldn't possibly mesh together to form a logical conclusion.

 

[shelke]

The use of scaling again ...

 

[BLAZE]

Unfortunately, TheSages456 believes that Sasuke lost Half of Hagoromo's chakra that bolstered his capabilities in the first place.

just like he believes sakura tanks bijuudama

 

[TheSages456]

What? There is no proof to this claim is there? What does Genjutsu have anything to do with creating a chakra link for forming a core that will produce a force of attraction; Gravity? This argument makes no sense whatsoever.

What are you claiming? Are you claiming that Sasuke can turn anything he wants into a core regardless of whether or not has he control of it?

How doesn't it? Care to show me any EMS Sasuke's feats that even remotely matches that?

What are you talking about? Any feat that Sasuke showed later in the series is due to his own natural progression, not some chakra that he doesn't possess and was never part of his reserves even when he did.

And? What does a container have anything to do with making his PS stronger when PS is Susanoo and that is a manifestation of the user's chakra?

The mass of Biju chakra inside of the armor is part of Susano'o.

Already covered this point in the edited post; Sage is the original source of the potent, undiluted Uchiha chakra. The dilution of the potent chakra genes Indra inherited resulted in the Uchiha. This point is completely incorrect. Going by your logic, Indra isn't an Uchiha either. How could he make a PS then?

Six Paths chakra is a completely different type of chakra from Uchiha chakra with none of it's individual properties. This would be like me saying that Sasuke would be able to create a Bijudama from his chakra even though he doesn't possess the type of chakra necessary to form it.

Indra could use Susano'o since he possesses the same power that Uchiha do.

Shockwaves are created because of speed and size, actually.

This doesn't really matter, but the databook credits it's strength as the reason.

There's also nothing suggesting that there needs to be a chakra link established for Sasuke to even use this form of Chibaku Tensei.

There isn't anything suggesting that he can turn any person into a core whenever he wants, so that isn't something that anyone can claim.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

just like he believes sakura tanks bijuudama

The novel said Sakura tanked one apparently

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OP: Could Sasuke directly absorb Kurama's chakra. just like he did wih the bijuu in vote 2.

 

[Waltz]

What are you claiming? Are you claiming that Sasuke can turn anything he wants into a core regardless of whether or not has he control of it?

Watch out Judge! Incoming fallacy! ​

 

[shelke]

What are you claiming? Are you claiming that Sasuke can turn anything he wants into a core regardless of whether or not has he control of it?

What are you talking about? Any feat that Sasuke showed later in the series is due to his own natural progression, not some chakra that he doesn't possess and was never part of his reserves even when he did.

The mass of Biju chakra inside of the armor is part of Susano'o.

Six Paths chakra is a completely different type of chakra from Uchiha chakra with none of it's individual properties. This would be like me saying that Sasuke would be able to create a Bijudama from his chakra even though he doesn't possess the type of chakra necessary to form it.

Indra could use Susanoo since he possesses the same power that Uchiha do.

This doesn't really matter, but the databook credits it's strength as the reason.

There isn't anything suggesting that he can turn any person into a core whenever he wants, so that isn't something that anyone can claim.

That's exactly what I am claiming. As creating a core has nothing to do with Genjutsu. Nothing at all.

No, man. It isn't.

It isn't a part of his PS in a manner you are implying. The only reason the avatars couldn't keep up is because they were at 1/4 their strength and durability as Naruto created three clones out of the main avatar. It's like like Madara's V3 Susano'o clones not being as powerful. Since Kurama cannot be replicated and the avatar carries limited chakra, it resulted in Naruto struggling in the fight.

No, it is not. This is refuted by the Sage as he directly states that "Indra ended up inheriting my strong chakra genes and Ashura didn't." Which means Indra's PS is a result of Sage's chakra flowing through his veins.

And, Sasuke would have stronger shockwaves as his PS is stronger as it is powered by a much more powerful chakra? It still boils down to the same thing, really.

He can, because that's what he showed. Simply claiming it doesn't make it an argument. If he can turn one object into a core, he can do so for the other. Claiming that Bijuus, with much more heavier chakra based bodies, can be turned into cores but ninjas cannot be is a reaching argument.

Watch out Judge! Incoming fallacy! ​

If that is what he believes then there is nothing I can do about it. It's like Suggesting that Itachi never used Tsukuyomi on summons and Jins, therefore, he cannot use it on them like Sasuke.

 

[BLAZE]

The novel said Sakura tanked one apparently

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Sakura too op.She is bijuu lvl

 

[TRE MERCER]

The scan you posted shows the collective rubble from 1 meteor covering as much ground as 1 mountain range, not a single fragment.

CT isn't as durable as Perfect Susano'o.

The image you posted isn't an accurate size depiction of the statue compared to mountains or the meteor.
-Mountains only come up to Shinsuusenju's knee while it's sitting down.

That mountain was extremely small as it barely waved over trees. No its not. Lmao if you believe SS is really that big your dreaming. Madara Susanoo before legs stood as tall as Kurama[

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]. Here we see SS compared to Kurama[

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] Ps with legs would be much bigger than Kurama.

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-Based on how big Perfect Susano'o is in the Bijudama crater, Shinsuusenju with it's armament would take up half of that crater.

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Your scaling is absolutely shit. By that scaling Ps would be hand held size compared to SS just stop.

-Madara's meteors were only as wide as the Shinju's stump

Spoiler

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And the Shinju's stump is only this big compared to the Bijudama crater

Spoiler

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Your scaling is completely wrong so that alone dumps on your entire argument.

So Shinsuusenju with it's armament would be wider than Madara's meteors by a significant amount.

Though I'm not seeing how this matters since Madara's CT aren't any more durable pound for pound than rock.

You haven't posted any evidence for the meteors being beyond Madara's capabilities to cut. All I saw were incoherent ideas that couldn't possibly mesh together to form a logical conclusion.

No it would be at all. We can see the Earth curve from those meters prospective. SS is no where near that size. The best cutting feat EMS Madara Ps has is mountain level Madara meteors are far above that in terms of size. You keep mentioning the meteors being nothing but rocks but that's irrelevant since astroids are nothing but rock but there size alone gives them enough power to completely whip out life on Earth. Madara Ps is would be crushed beyond belief.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Yet people are basing their entire argument on suppose facts that Thesages brought out to the table.

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