Databook 4 Biggest Error

[TheSages456]

However; nothing in that excerpt dictates Naruto achieved the said accomplishments when he swore a great dream to his comrades because the context for the trailing statements specifically sets that he was in the process of making that dream into a reality. We know the context is not when he swore a great dream to his comrades because the article specifically states that is what he did when Team 7 was formed.​

This isn't relevant and the bold to no extent makes sense. The opener sets the context for the subject of the article, which is Naruto's dream, but it doesn't hold the entire article to one time period.
The opener is literally no different to "Hashirama & Madara were once called legendary shinobi."(even though that isn't even the start of his article)
That is an event that already happened in the past. For some reason though it dictates the entire time period of Madara's entry, but not Naruto's?

We know that Naruto "swearing his dream" and "making it reality" isn't in the same time period because of the language used and nothing more, which means that the time period for an entire article isn't determined by it's opening sentence. That isn't a literary rule of any kind. You simply made it up.

"When Team 7 was formed, he swore a great dream to his comrades. Now, he was in the process of making it a reality."

The article sets a time period for the opener, which is Naruto swearing a dream when Team 7 was formed. In the next sentence, the language itself changes in order to reference a time period in the future.

"That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara."
The opener starts off by saying that Madara's strength is the power to control life or death, referring to it in present context. The article then builds on his power hype by referring to the fact that him and Hashirama were called legendary shinobi.
The context then jumps to the present stating that Madara is the strongest man of the Uchiha clan.

The article sticks to present tense while talking about his Perfect Susano'o, then after that, the language changes entirely to past tense for the rest of the article since it's actually talking about his past, just like every single article in the databook that references past events.
Madara's isn't the magic exception.

 

[Waltz]

This isn't relevant and the bold to no extent makes sense. The opener sets the context for the subject of the article, which is Naruto's dream, but it doesn't hold the entire article to one time period.
The opener is literally no different to "Hashirama & Madara were once called legendary shinobi."(even though that isn't even the start of his article)
That is an event that already happened in the past. For some reason though it dictates the entire time period of Madara's entry, but not Naruto's?

We know that Naruto "swearing his dream" and "making it reality" isn't in the same time period because of the language used and nothing more, which means that the time period for an entire article isn't determined by it's opening sentence. That isn't a literary rule of any kind. You simply made it up.

"When Team 7 was formed, he swore a great dream to his comrades. Now, he was in the process of making it a reality."

The article sets a time period for the opener, which is Naruto swearing a dream when Team 7 was formed. In the next sentence, the language itself changes in order to reference a time period in the future.

"That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara."
The opener starts off by saying that Madara's strength is the power to control life or death, referring to it in present context. The article then builds on his power hype by referring to the fact that him and Hashirama were called legendary shinobi.
The context then jumps to the present stating that Madara is the strongest man of the Uchiha clan.

The article sticks to present tense while talking about his Perfect Susano'o, then after that, the language changes entirely to past tense for the rest of the article since it's actually talking about his past, just like every single article in the databook that references past events.
Madara's isn't the magic exception.

It makes sense because Naruto's article dictates the setting around the statements. When team 7 was formed, Naruto swore a great dream to his comrades. The setting alters right after: Now, he was in the process of making it a reality. This would have been after Team 7 was formed and he declared this dream to his comrades. Same process applies to the Madara Excerpt. ""That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara. [...]"" - The context still remains when they were called legendary Shinobi in the past. This is the setting and background situation both commencing the entry and directly preceding the statement you're trying to subtract and place in the present tense.

Spoiler

Remainder of the segment:

When invoking the destructive God that is“The Complete-Body Susanoo”, (his strength) is to the extent that it even rivals that of the tailed-beasts. Even amongst the Uchiha clan, he excelled at the usage of the Sharingan. As the head of the clan, he also enjoyed (his reputation and) the trust and confidence (of his people). Without the understanding of his brethren, Madara turned his back on the village. He was merely advocating for one simple thing, completely from the bottom of his heart…(A world) without war: an eternity of“Infinite Tsukuyomi”, and to be perpetually filled with love. It was for the advancement of shinobi in a world with scenes of blood-stained carnage. Because of Madara’s situation, he became disillusioned with the mundane world.

Madara gained this Kanzentai Susano'o that even rivals tailed beast in the past.

Madara excelled in his Sharingan usage in the Uchiha clan in the past.

Madara was head of the clan in the past.

Madara had the trust of the Uchiha in the past.

Madara misunderstood his brethren and left the village in the past.

Madara left the village to advocate the I.T. This happened in the past.

Madara became disillusioned with the mundane world upon leaving the village to persue the I.T. This also happened in the past.

All of which could be woven within the time Madara and Hashirama together were called legendary Shinobi, which happens to be the context-setting surrounding the excerpt.

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​

 

[HashiraMadara]

Itachi rekts :sdo2:

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

That's it guys, twist that direct statement from the mangaka.

Twist it til you have a new manga. Rewrite the series in your fav's image.

 

[Waltz]

That's it guys, twist that direct statement from the mangaka.

Twist it til you have a new manga. Rewrite the series in your fav's image.

The statement being twisted is plausible as long the Mangaka simply does not know how to utilize context in the description of his Characters----since Madara being the strongest of the Uchiha clan cannot be currently as he's no longer apart of the clan. I think I'd rather not doubt Kishimoto's intellect, however if their lies such an ambiguity; the idea has already been satisfied by others in this thread. ​

 

[TheSages456]

It makes sense because Naruto's article dictates the setting around the statements. When team 7 was formed, Naruto swore a great dream to his comrades. The setting alters right after: Now, he was in the process of making it a reality. This would have been after Team 7 was formed and he declared this dream to his comrades. Same process applies to the Madara Excerpt. ""That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara. [...]"" - The context still remains when they were called legendary Shinobi in the past. This is the setting and background situation both commencing the entry and directly preceding the statement you're trying to subtract and place in the present tense.

Spoiler

Remainder of the segment:



Madara gained this Kanzentai Susano'o that even rivals tailed beast in the past.

Madara excelled in his Sharingan usage in the Uchiha clan in the past.

Madara was head of the clan in the past.

Madara had the trust of the Uchiha in the past.

Madara misunderstood his brethren and left the village in the past.

Madara left the village to advocate the I.T. This happened in the past.

Madara became disillusioned with the mundane world upon leaving the village to persue the I.T. This also happened in the past.

All of which could be woven within the time Madara and Hashirama together were called legendary Shinobi, which happens to be the context-setting surrounding the excerpt.

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​

No, it doesn't

""That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara.

because by using "is", it changes the time period to the present day, just like Naruto's article changes the time period by using "now".

For your definition to even begin to apply in this situation, you would have to assume that the article's context is being held to a specific time period and using "were" in one sentence doesn't do that.
Especially not when the article blatantly uses language to change the tense in following sentences.

The time period of when Naruto swore his dream is 100% irrelevant, since that isn't the context, so that determining the time period makes no sense. The context of the article based on what's stated throughout is simply "Naruto's dream".

The context of Madara's article at least for the first half of it is simply his power and the language jumps from present, to past, to present in the first half, then switches to past in the second half where it talks about his past. The context has nothing to do with one specific time period in the first half.

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Madara is still rustling....Even DEAD LOLXD

 

[chintu234]

Madara Uchiha page

Spoiler

Page 59

Spoiler:

Splash Text

その背、負える者なし―― 鎧袖一触孤高の「伝説」！！

Without anyone who is able to bear (his attacks)… Behind the aloof「Legend」who defeats (his opponents) with a single blow!!

Main Body

その力は活殺自在。。。千手柱問として共に「伝説の忍」と称された、うちは一族最強の男、それがマダラだ。 尾獣にすら匹敵する破壊神 ”完成体須佐能乎”を発動させるほど、 うちは一族内でも”写輪眼” の扱いに長けていた。 一族の長として輿望を担うも、 同胞に理解されず里に背を向けたマダラ。その心底に掲げるものは、ただ一つ。。。戦争のない、愛に満ち溢れ る永永無窮の ”無限月読”。忍の歩みし血塗られた修羅の世界は、マダラを看破紅塵の境地に至らしめたのだ。

That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara. When invoking the destructive God that is“The Complete-Body Susanoo”, (his strength) is to the extent that it even rivals that of the tailed-beasts. Even amongst the Uchiha clan, he excelled at the usage of the Sharingan. As the head of the clan, he also enjoyed (his reputation and) the trust and confidence (of his people). Without the understanding of his brethren, Madara turned his back on the village. He was merely advocating for one simple thing, completely from the bottom of his heart…(A world) without war: an eternity of“Infinite Tsukuyomi”, and to be perpetually filled with love. It was for the advancement of shinobi in a world with scenes of blood-stained carnage. Because of Madara’s situation, he became disillusioned with the mundane world.

I don't get how Kishimoto could ever come to a conclusion like that when Sasuke is stronger than every version of Madara to the point that teenage Sasuke had JJ Madara running for a Rin'negan. Does he ever explain or correct it anywhere?

A blind(half?) madara killed sasuke without a sweat.
And it took both naruto and sasuke with OP powerups to even come close to madara.

 

[Hit The Legendary Assassi]

Madara Uchiha page

Spoiler

Page 59

Spoiler:

Splash Text

その背、負える者なし―― 鎧袖一触孤高の「伝説」！！

Without anyone who is able to bear (his attacks)… Behind the aloof「Legend」who defeats (his opponents) with a single blow!!

Main Body

その力は活殺自在。。。千手柱問として共に「伝説の忍」と称された、うちは一族最強の男、それがマダラだ。 尾獣にすら匹敵する破壊神 ”完成体須佐能乎”を発動させるほど、 うちは一族内でも”写輪眼” の扱いに長けていた。 一族の長として輿望を担うも、 同胞に理解されず里に背を向けたマダラ。その心底に掲げるものは、ただ一つ。。。戦争のない、愛に満ち溢れ る永永無窮の ”無限月読”。忍の歩みし血塗られた修羅の世界は、マダラを看破紅塵の境地に至らしめたのだ。

That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara. When invoking the destructive God that is“The Complete-Body Susanoo”, (his strength) is to the extent that it even rivals that of the tailed-beasts. Even amongst the Uchiha clan, he excelled at the usage of the Sharingan. As the head of the clan, he also enjoyed (his reputation and) the trust and confidence (of his people). Without the understanding of his brethren, Madara turned his back on the village. He was merely advocating for one simple thing, completely from the bottom of his heart…(A world) without war: an eternity of“Infinite Tsukuyomi”, and to be perpetually filled with love. It was for the advancement of shinobi in a world with scenes of blood-stained carnage. Because of Madara’s situation, he became disillusioned with the mundane world.

I don't get how Kishimoto could ever come to a conclusion like that when Sasuke is stronger than every version of Madara to the point that teenage Sasuke had JJ Madara running for a Rin'negan. Does he ever explain or correct it anywhere?

You failed severely....Godara > sasuke any version

Do you realize once Madara got both rinnegan's he could have easily killed sasuke if not for naruto being there to fight the limbo clones because we know sasuke couldn't handle the limbo clones because they were physically greater than him as naruto is physically greater than him, and sasuke barely got through the Chibaku Tensei madara made...take naruto out of that situation and sasuke would have 25+ ct's falling on top of him and 4 limbo clones coming right at him and Godara himself coming right at him, sasuke has no way out of that situation with all he can use is a ps and ameno and ameno can't save him from 4 limbo and madara and his ps can't tank 25 ct's...

Sasuke, itachi and madara are my fave hell the Uchiha are my fave but it's clear madara became too powerful and he was even immortal so there would be jo win for teenage sasuke or adult sasuke in a 1 vs 1

 

[Char Aznable]

lol itachi negs him low dif

That Feeling When you recall Itachi calling Madara an Invincible Immortal.

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[Amazeballs]

Sure, whatever you say.

He's right, though... Madara didn't give a sh*t about that attack. Not the first or even tenth time Madara took damage just because he knew he could. He even explained that tendency to Kabuto and Black Zetsu. Sasuke's feat wasn't impressive at all except to wankers who use it as "manga facts" to supposedly prove this "amazing" blitz. Not really any more impressive than when Gaara landed his sand technique on Madara (who could have blocked it with Susano'o), or when Lee kicked Madara in half, or when Obito waltzed up and stuck his hand in Madara's stomach, or when Madara let his own meteor pulverize him, etc. Literally the only difference is that it's Sasuke's feat, and Sasuke has an ultra-toxic fanbase who desperately cling to every pathetic panel they can get their grubby, cheeto-encrusted fingers on.

I like the Doge avatar, though!

 

[Waltz]

No, it doesn't

""That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」. The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara.

because by using "is", it changes the time period to the present day, just like Naruto's article changes the time period by using "now".

For your definition to even begin to apply in this situation, you would have to assume that the article's context is being held to a specific time period and using "were" in one sentence doesn't do that.
Especially not when the article blatantly uses language to change the tense in following sentences.

The time period of when Naruto swore his dream is 100% irrelevant, since that isn't the context, so that determining the time period makes no sense. The context of the article based on what's stated throughout is simply "Naruto's dream".

The context of Madara's article at least for the first half of it is simply his power and the language jumps from present, to past, to present in the first half, then switches to past in the second half where it talks about his past. The context has nothing to do with one specific time period in the first half.

"Is" cannot mean to the present day because Madara is not apart of the Uchiha clan in the present day and it does not correlate with Naruto's article changing the timeframe by using "now" because "Now" in naruto's referrence doesn't refer to the present day as presently, Naruto has already accomplished his dream. However as I just said, if their lies such an ambiguity; the idea has already been satisfied by others in this thread. More interestingly what KidGamer65 said:

1. That statement obviously refers to Madara back when he was alive as the context of that entire first couple sentences is about Madara when he was the head of the Uchiha clan. So there is no discrepancy.

2. Even if it wasn't referring to that time JJ Madara w/ both eyes is stronger than any Sasuke shown during the Manga up to the Kaguya fight, and he's stronger than any Sasuke post Kaguya fight and post Manga. So the statement still isn't wrong.

Which holds true but does not mean than any version of Madara can beat any version of Sasuke because there are versions of Sasuke that are stronger than versions of Madara even if they're stirring a similar power.

If the time period where Naruto swore his dream was irrelevant to the context of the article then there would have been no need for Kishimoto to specifically state when this occurred however since he did then it is therefore relevant. Naruto swore his dream more than once, therefore it was required to clarify the angle of focus to the Audience.

@Bold: Which is false because there are no words dictating the time frame which these descriptions within the remainder of the excerpt are referring to. If you would, prove your assertion and break down the article and highlight the words or references within the remainder of the excerpt that dictate's it referring to present besides the "Is" statement you've being trying to use as a justification. ​

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Have no clue what your smoking
Naruto nor sasuke coho defeat him single handed.

And chasing after a rinnegan ? Lol
It was his eye lol Of course he wants it back.


Kochi even stated he was the strongwst and had trouble thinking of way for them
To beat him which he never did he had Kaguya take over

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

When? Orochimaru already confirmed that Sasuke would surpass MAdara

Stronger ......eventually ...........at the time
Of the series end definitely not stronger that's how and as the guys above me
Keep explaining to you he had way more feats with the sharingan

So much sasuke wanking

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

A blind(half?) madara killed sasuke without a sweat.
And it took both naruto and sasuke with OP powerups to even come close to madara.

Don't be crazy that was Clearly a fake chapter lol

 

[Tantalus Thief]

Why would the article be talking about Madara as a jinchuriki?

This is the page where the statement is made:

Spoiler

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While I'm back on the topic, the arguments that people are using about context holds no water.
That would be like saying that the sentence in the beginning of Naruto's entry here,

Spoiler

… When Team 7 was formed, he swore a great dream to his comrades. Now, he was in the process of making it a reality. By training with Jiraiya and battling fiercely with “Akatsuki”, Naruto certainly achieved growth and maturity. In addition to primarily being full of expressive power and inventiveness, he also possessed the same “Senjutsu” as his master. Naruto even obtained the power (of being a)“Perfect Jinchuuriki”because of being linked to his Tailed-Beast.

determines the time period of the entire article, which would be the moment when Team 7 was formed, yet that doesn't hold true. The time period in the next sentence isn't even the same as the one in the previous and I'm sure that there are more examples like this in the databook.

This of course ignores the fact that the databook always uses past tense language to describe past events without fail, yet present tense language is blatantly used in the 2 sentences discussing Madara's strength.

So do you believe Edo madara>Rinnegan Sasuke & edo Madara>juubito?

 

[TheSages456]

"Is" cannot mean to the present day because Madara is not apart of the Uchiha clan in the present day and it does not correlate with Naruto's article changing the timeframe by using "now" because "Now" in naruto's referrence doesn't refer to the present day as presently, Naruto has already accomplished his dream. However as I just said, if their lies such an ambiguity; the idea has already been satisfied by others in this thread. More interestingly what KidGamer65 said:

​

Which holds true but does not mean than any version of Madara can beat any version of Sasuke because there are versions of Sasuke that are stronger than versions of Madara even if they're stirring a similar power.

If the time period where Naruto swore his dream was irrelevant to the context of the article then there would have been no need for Kishimoto to specifically state when this occurred however since he did then it is therefore relevant. Naruto swore his dream more than once, therefore it was required to clarify the angle of focus to the Audience.

@Bold: Which is false because there are no words dictating the time frame which these descriptions within the remainder of the excerpt are referring to. If you would, prove your assertion and break down the article and highlight the words or references within the remainder of the excerpt that dictate's it referring to present besides the "Is" statement you've being trying to use as a justification. ​

Naruto's "now he was" not being in the present time isn't relevant to my point. It represents a different time period than the sentence prior and that's all that matters here. No, playing with the statement isn't going to prove your point. Sasuke was one of the last of the Uchiha clan. Madara was one of the last of the clan after he was revived. The databook doesn't cover anything VOTE 2 and beyond.

It doesn't matter what "other possibilities" are as the author isn't referring to Madara as a jinchuriki. He isn't going to be showing pictures of Madara during his fight with the Gokage only for the statement not to apply to him. That looks like a reach to me.

The author needed to clarify the time period of Naruto's statement using the tenses, but the time period is in no way relevant to the point of the article which is just Naruto's dream.

Why would I need anything besides the "is" statement when that's present tense? My burden of proof has long been fulfilled.
I don't need anything else since the article is literally just as clear cut as Naruto's is when it comes to the tense changes.

So do you believe Edo madara>Rinnegan Sasuke & edo Madara>juubito?

No, Madara isn't stronger than jinchuriki Obito, since he was directly stated to be stronger and I'm not seeing why the author would lump a Ten Tails' jinchuriki in that same group.
Sasuke surpassed Madara's power at VOTE with the Biju and maybe became equally or more skilled by the time he reached adulthood simply going by portrayal(Orochimaru's statement).

 

[Tantalus Thief]

Naruto's "now he was" not being in the present time isn't relevant to my point. It represents a different time period than the sentence prior and that's all that matters here. No, playing with the statement isn't going to prove your point. Sasuke was one of the last of the Uchiha clan. Madara was one of the last of the clan after he was revived. The databook doesn't cover anything VOTE 2 and beyond.

It doesn't matter what "other possibilities" are as the author isn't referring to Madara as a jinchuriki. He isn't going to be showing pictures of Madara during his fight with the Gokage only for the statement not to apply to him. That looks like a reach to me.

The author needed to clarify the time period of Naruto's statement using the tenses, but the time period is in no relevant to the point of the article which is just Naruto's dream.

Why would I need anything besides the "is" statement when that's present tense? My burden of proof has long been fulfilled.
I don't need anything else since the article is literally just as clear cut as Naruto's is when it comes to the tense changes.


No, Madara isn't stronger than jinchuriki Obito, since he was directly stated to be stronger and I'm not seeing why the author would lump a Ten Tails' jinchuriki in that same group.
Sasuke surpassed Madara's power at VOTE with the Biju and maybe became equally or more skilled by the time he reached adulthood simply going by portrayal(Orochimaru's statement).

when was Obito directly stated to be stronger? Was it when Hashirama admitted inferiority or when the manga said the most "dangerous" when Obito destroyed the Hashirama and Tobirama clones.

 

[TheSages456]

when was Obito directly stated to be stronger? Was it when Hashirama admitted inferiority or when the manga said the most "dangerous" when Obito destroyed the Hashirama and Tobirama clones.

When Hashirama admitted inferiority. Those small pieces of text are always absent in the VIZ.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Naruto's "now he was" not being in the present time isn't relevant to my point. It represents a different time period than the sentence prior and that's all that matters here. No, playing with the statement isn't going to prove your point. Sasuke was one of the last of the Uchiha clan. Madara was one of the last of the clan after he was revived. The databook doesn't cover anything VOTE 2 and beyond.

It doesn't matter what "other possibilities" are as the author isn't referring to Madara as a jinchuriki. He isn't going to be showing pictures of Madara during his fight with the Gokage only for the statement not to apply to him. That looks like a reach to me.

The author needed to clarify the time period of Naruto's statement using the tenses, but the time period is in no relevant to the point of the article which is just Naruto's dream.

Why would I need anything besides the "is" statement when that's present tense? My burden of proof has long been fulfilled.
I don't need anything else since the article is literally just as clear cut as Naruto's is when it comes to the tense changes.


No, Madara isn't stronger than jinchuriki Obito, since he was directly stated to be stronger and I'm not seeing why the author would lump a Ten Tails' jinchuriki in that same group.
Sasuke surpassed Madara's power at VOTE with the Biju and maybe became equally or more skilled by the time he reached adulthood simply going by portrayal(Orochimaru's statement).

Sasuke did not surpass him at vote
Your own crack cocaine if you seriously think that