Kiba vs Hidan

[ToshiZO]

Lee said w/o his weights he can't match Neji in overall combat. Not in movement speed obviously because Lee is faster than Neji is w/o his weights and always has been. :lol Where did you even get that from? Their dashing being barely a meter apart is irrelevant.

And no. Don't lie about the Manga's events please when you reply to me. Sasuke almost blitzed Deidara twice, and had Deidara stating that Sasuke is too fast for him. Hidan isn't faster than Kakashi nor did he pressure him with speed the entire match or do anything that'd cause Kakashi to believe Hidan was too fast for him. If I'm wrong provide the feats.

DB scores aren't sketchy if you know how to interpret them. Hidan didn't do anything during his fight against Asuma that'd equal their speed. The only reason Asuma even got hit is because of Hidan's scythe, not because Hidan was just as fast or faster. After that Asuma got taken down by the ritual. Nothing at all. Dashing at each other doesn't indicate equal speed.

Hidan may have a Shunshin that is near Kakashi's in speed (1000% baseless so don't bother) but saying DB scores are sketchy doesn't make sense based on what's been shown.



:lol Neji not being far from Naruto's speed is baseless. Naruto charged him from 5-10m and Neji couldn't even complete his rotation before Naruto reached him, and Naruto only dashed at him when he did that. Nothing showed that Neji was matching Naruto's speed. Ever. :lol

Uh, no, you don't. Where are you even getting this from? You don't need to match your opponents dashing speed because you are both dashing towards each other. Nothing in that exchange would imply that one HAD to be as fast as the other. Reacting to their strike is irrelevant. Striking speed is irrelevant as well. We are talking movement speed here. Not striking speed.

That scan shows them clashing twice, and not even in an all out exchange. They dashed past each other twice and clashed. :lol That doesn't prove that they were moving just as fast as each other.

And equal scores don't mean equal statistics. 1-5 is simply a tiering system. That's why everyone who is a 5 isn't equal, and why there are large gaps between people who are only 1 pt behind. Hidan being 3.5 only means he's on the same general tier of reaction speed and movement speed lumped together as Kiba, not that they are the same exact speed.

Which doesn't matter.

Oh it matters a lot when part 1 Kiba is in the same speed tier as Hidan. None of that justifies anything.

Regarding the topic of this thread, then whatever makes Hidan up as a whole, he won't have a problem with Kiba's "speed". So whether you think his speed comes from Taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu, fuinjutsu. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[KidGamer65]

Oh it matters a lot when part 1 Kiba is in the same speed tier as Hidan.

Not really. Hidan is superior in movement and reaction speed by a good amount, but just not by the amount you think he is as evidenced by the score he got. :lol

 

[ToshiZO]

Not really. Hidan is superior in movement and reaction speed by a good amount, but just not by the amount you think he is as evidenced by the score he got. :lol

lmfao no Hidan would literally blitz Part 1 Kiba before he could even process what happens. His head would be rolling. It's not even close.

 

[KidGamer65]

lmfao no Hidan would literally blitz Part 1 Kiba before he could even process what happens. His head would be rolling. It's not even close.

DB doesn't include Shunshin first of all, so this doesn't matter as that is the only way that Hidan would ever blitz someone who has the same rank as him in the speed stat. Second of all this is just your opinion. Where are the feats to support your claim?

 

[ToshiZO]

DB doesn't include Shunshin first of all, so this doesn't matter as that is the only way that Hidan would ever blitz someone who has the same rank as him in the speed stat. Second of all this is just your opinion. Where are the feats to support your claim?

Lmfao bruh, do you really need feats for such an obvious thing? Virtually any Konoha jounin can speedblitz any part 1 character around Kiba's level.

Neji couldn't even strike Hinato who was a meter away from him before Kurenai and them could come from the stands to stop him.

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There are other cases like this too.


And if it's shunshin which lets Hidan keep up with guys tiers above him in "regular speed", then the speed stat is pretty damn meaningless and holds no water in this thread.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lmfao bruh, do you really need feats for such an obvious thing? Virtually any Konoha jounin can speedblitz any part 1 character around Kiba's level.

Neji couldn't even strike Hinato who was a meter away from him before Kurenai and them could come from the stands to stop him.

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There are other cases like this too.


And if it's shunshin which lets Hidan keep up with guys tiers above him in "regular speed", then the speed stat is pretty damn meaningless and holds no water in this thread.

Then it's with Shunshin like I said, but none of those are actual blitzes. They simply stopped Neji. The only ones there who I'd actually even begin to argue could blitz Neji would be Gai and Kakashi. Lee needed the 5th Gate AND Ura Renge to defeat Neji. Meaning Neji isn't going to be blitzed with no reaction by someone not anywhere near that level of speed.

I wasn't arguing anything about the speed stat proving anything in this thread, but even if I was you haven't disproven anything on that front. The initial claim was that Kiba is faster than Hidan by a decent margin because:

-He's a full point ahead of him in speed.
-Kiba in wolf form>>>Kiba in base.

And Hidan doesn't have the Shunshin feats that'd change that. So no, the stat isn't meaningless since it also takes reaction speed into account and it holds enough water in this thread to matter in the outcome.

 

[ToshiZO]

Then it's with Shunshin like I said, but none of those are actual blitzes. They simply stopped Neji. The only ones there who I'd actually even begin to argue could blitz Neji would be Gai and Kakashi. Lee needed the 5th Gate AND Ura Renge to defeat Neji. Meaning Neji isn't going to be blitzed with no reaction by someone not anywhere near that level of speed.

I wasn't arguing anything about the speed stat proving anything in this thread, but even if I was you haven't disproven anything on that front. The initial claim was that Kiba is faster than Hidan by a decent margin because:

-He's a full point ahead of him in speed.
-Kiba in wolf form>>>Kiba in base.

And Hidan doesn't have the Shunshin feats that'd change that. So no, the stat isn't meaningless since it also takes reaction speed into account and it holds enough water in this thread to matter in the outcome.

If those jounin can stop him when he is a meter away from Hinata while they are in the stands, you best believe they can blitz him from a meter away.

I already said it doesn't matter if he is a full point ahead, Hidan can compete with guys a full point ahead, he has the feats he's shown it.

Kiba in wolf form IIRC travels in a completely linear and predictable fashion. It's Kiba that needs feats here not the other way around.

 

[KidGamer65]

If those jounin can stop him when he is a meter away from Hinata while they are in the stands, you best believe they can blitz him from a meter away.

I already said it doesn't matter if he is a full point ahead, Hidan can compete with guys a full point ahead, he has the feats he's shown it.

Kiba in wolf form IIRC travels in a completely linear and predictable fashion. It's Kiba that needs feats here not the other way around.

A meter is ridiculously close first of all. Second of all unless they are anywhere close to 5G Lee in speed no speed blitz is happening against Neji so you can dead that talk.

Lmao. I don't care. I'm not here to argue how Kiba's speed helps him beat Hidan. All I'm saying is that you haven't disproven the original claim that Hidan isn't slower than Kiba by a good margin. Which he is.

 

[ToshiZO]

A meter is ridiculously close first of all. Second of all unless they are anywhere close to 5G Lee in speed no speed blitz is happening against Neji so you can dead that talk.

Lmao. I don't care. I'm not here to argue how Kiba's speed helps him beat Hidan. All I'm saying is that you haven't disproven the original claim that Hidan isn't slower than Kiba by a good margin. Which he is.

I have manga scans right there, I really don't need to dead anything. All it means is you miscalculated jounins in comparison to kids from part 1, including Lee. There is also something called power creep.

This is not a foot race here, they aren't competing in the olympics, whatever tools Hidan uses to make up his speed overall, whether it is shunshin or something else, that is the only thing that matters, not the speed stat.

 

[~Ethereal~]

I can't believe this is a long discussion. I am just gonna read the comments.

 

[KidGamer65]

I have manga scans right there, I really don't need to dead anything. All it means is you miscalculated jounins in comparison to kids from part 1, including Lee. There is also something called power creep.

This is not a foot race here, they aren't competing in the olympics, whatever tools Hidan uses to make up his speed overall, whether it is shunshin or something else, that is the only thing that matters, not the speed stat.

You don't have scans of a damn thing to be honest. You posted scans of them stopping Neji's attack and said it's proof that they can blitz him even though it isn't. Intercepting someone's attack isn't a blitz no matter how hard you try to paint it as one nor does it prove that they are fast enough to attack him before he can react.

Second of all Kakashi took out his Sharingan to track Lee's speed. Do you think he'd need to do that for Kurenai and Gekko or Genma? No. Because they aren't that fast. Your argument might as well be "They are faster cause Lee is a kid while they are Jonin adults". Lol Ridiculous.

Lmao. Not sure how many times I have to tell you I do not care before you get it through your head. The point of my posts was that;

-DB is not unreliable.
-You haven't disproven that Kiba isn't faster than Hidan by a good amount. Whether or not Hidan can accommodate for it doesn't mean it holds no weight in the debate. :lol

I don't care about the rest as I didn't come here to argue about the rest.

 

[ToshiZO]

You don't have scans of a damn thing to be honest. You posted scans of them stopping Neji's attack and said it's proof that they can blitz him even though it isn't. Intercepting someone's attack isn't a blitz no matter how hard you try to paint it as one nor does it prove that they are fast enough to attack him before he can react.

Second of all Kakashi took out his Sharingan to track Lee's speed. Do you think he'd need to do that for Kurenai and Gekko or Genma? No. Because they aren't that fast. Your argument might as well be "They are faster cause Lee is a kid while they are Jonin adults". Lol Ridiculous.

Lmao. Not sure how many times I have to tell you I do not care before you get it through your head. The point of my posts was that;

Lmfao they were in the stands, Neji had to strike someone like a meter from him, if they could reach Neji before he can even reach Hinata what in the world makes you think they couldn't blitz him?

And what makes you think Kakashi wouldn't need the sharingan to track Kurenai's speed? Don't know about Genma or w/e since he was close enough to Neji, but care to prove this? You are arguing like the gates are universally the same among all users.

Regarding the databook, if you believe Part 1 Kiba had the same reaction speed as Hidan, I guess have fun believing that.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lmfao they were in the stands, Neji had to strike someone like a meter from him, if they could reach Neji before he can even reach Hinata what in the world makes you think they couldn't blitz him?

And what makes you think Kakashi wouldn't need the sharingan to track Kurenai's speed? Don't know about Genma or w/e since he was close enough to Neji, but care to prove this? You are arguing like the gates are universally the same among all users.

Regarding the databook, if you believe Part 1 Kiba had the same reaction speed as Hidan, I guess have fun believing that.

@bold: Lmao. We're done here. Not even going to entertain the rest of this nonsense. Especially the underlined, which I already addressed.

 

[ToshiZO]

@bold: Lmao. We're done here. Not even going to entertain the rest of this nonsense. Especially the underlined, which I already addressed.

If she is going at her top speed with Shunshin? If Lee needed 5 gates against Neji, and Neji couldn't strike Hinata a meter away from him before Kurenai could get to Neji from several meters away in the stands? 1+1.

Ofcourse we are done here, all you said was a bunch of opinions.

 

[Zexion~]

Not to mention, Hidan has a 5/5 in Stamina. So he can maintain moving at his fastest longer then someone like DB3 Kakashi for example, who received a 3/5 in the category. So Hidan matching Kakashi in those clashes can very easily be a result of Kakashi's stamina already starting to regress due to the fatigue from prior occurrences in that fight, as well as him trying to preserve his stamina (as you mentioned).

2.5/5 in Speed Shikamaru was able to do this to Hidan, without Hidan being able to react and avoid it

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I don't see a flaw in Hidan's speed score.

What a terrible argument seeing as it occurred in the very beginning of the fight..... He blocked Shikamaru as he didn't think anything of it really, he didn't want to leave his scythe on the tree and jump off, only to be attacked by Kakashi with no defense.

And no. Don't lie about the Manga's events please when you reply to me. Sasuke almost blitzed Deidara twice, and had Deidara stating that Sasuke is too fast for him. Hidan isn't faster than Kakashi nor did he pressure him with speed the entire match or do anything that'd cause Kakashi to believe Hidan was too fast for him. If I'm wrong provide the feats.

DB scores aren't sketchy if you know how to interpret them. Hidan didn't do anything during his fight against Asuma that'd equal their speed. The only reason Asuma even got hit is because of Hidan's scythe, not because Hidan was just as fast or faster. After that Asuma got taken down by the ritual. Nothing at all. Dashing at each other doesn't indicate equal speed.

Hidan may have a Shunshin that is near Kakashi's in speed (1000% baseless so don't bother) but saying DB scores are sketchy doesn't make sense based on what's been shown.

-If two people are a set distance away from each other, and leave and meet at the near exact middle, THAT EQUATES THAT THEY HAVE EQUAL SPEEDS AS STATED BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS

-Again simply denying a perfectly valid argument, Hidan dashed Kakashi in that instance with him being able to do less than Deidara was for Sasuke, I don't care about Sasuke nor Deidara's speed I am simply saying that if you use that instance as a credibly speed feat for Sasuke it should be applicable to all freaking characters.

I can't argue the immortals any more tbh, you people are literally UNWILLING to go even an inch in their favor and will do anything to deny it. Please provide any feats that have Kiba garnering a higher score than Hidan at any level of any time.

 

[KidGamer65]

-If two people are a set distance away from each other, and leave and meet at the near exact middle, THAT EQUATES THAT THEY HAVE EQUAL SPEEDS AS STATED BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS

-Again simply denying a perfectly valid argument, Hidan dashed Kakashi in that instance with him being able to do less than Deidara was for Sasuke, I don't care about Sasuke nor Deidara's speed I am simply saying that if you use that instance as a credibly speed feat for Sasuke it should be applicable to all freaking characters.

I can't argue the immortals any more tbh, you people are literally UNWILLING to go even an inch in their favor and will do anything to deny it. Please provide any feats that have Kiba garnering a higher score than Hidan at any level of any time.

Evidence they met at the exact middle? None. Because you have no idea where they each started from.

Lmao. Post a scan. If you are talking about any of the instances that have already been posted as scans in this argument then I'll be the first one to tell you that you make zero sense.

-Hidan dashes at Kakashi.
-Kakashi fends him off.

In what universe is that being pressured by his speed like Deidara was? Oh wait, not in this one. If you are attempting to claim that Kakashi fended him off because he couldn't evade then you are going to have to prove it with an applicable feat considering Kakashi's goal wasn't to evade Hidan.


Lmao. No, it's you guys not being content that the immortals aren't as great as you make them seem. Kiba has a point ahead of him, has his own Shunshin and he has his wolf form. Tell me more about how Hidan is faster based on nonsense feats like the above that don't even equate him with the people he clashes with? :lol Ridiculous.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Evidence they met at the exact middle? None. Because you have no idea where they each started from.

Lmao. Post a scan. If you are talking about any of the instances that have already been posted as scans in this argument then I'll be the first one to tell you that you make zero sense.

-Hidan dashes at Kakashi.
-Kakashi fends him off.

In what universe is that being pressured by his speed like Deidara was? Oh wait, not in this one. If you are attempting to claim that Kakashi fended him off because he couldn't evade then you are going to have to prove it with an applicable feat considering Kakashi's goal wasn't to evade Hidan.


Lmao. No, it's you guys not being content that the immortals aren't as great as you make them seem. Kiba has a point ahead of him, has his own Shunshin and he has his wolf form. Tell me more about how Hidan is faster based on nonsense feats like the above that don't even equate him with the people he clashes with? :lol Ridiculous.

lord knows how many times i have been saying that. Heck he had no problem leaving hidan in the dust to dodge atusgai but Tosh wants to claim that they are equal in speed.

 

[Zexion~]

Evidence they met at the exact middle? None. Because you have no idea where they each started from.

Lmao. Post a scan. If you are talking about any of the instances that have already been posted as scans in this argument then I'll be the first one to tell you that you make zero sense.

-Hidan dashes at Kakashi.
-Kakashi fends him off.

In what universe is that being pressured by his speed like Deidara was? Oh wait, not in this one. If you are attempting to claim that Kakashi fended him off because he couldn't evade then you are going to have to prove it with an applicable feat considering Kakashi's goal wasn't to evade Hidan.


Lmao. No, it's you guys not being content that the immortals aren't as great as you make them seem. Kiba has a point ahead of him, has his own Shunshin and he has his wolf form. Tell me more about how Hidan is faster based on nonsense feats like the above that don't even equate him with the people he clashes with? :lol Ridiculous.

Yeah wolf form puts him faster, but there are others with higher speed scores than Hidan that have no purpose being higher with the feats they were given.

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Its pretty much the middle...

Honestly one could argue Kakashi was trying to avoid when Hidan hit him, hence why he was in the air, he jumped backwards but Hidan met him mid-jump before he could evade, either way he was the one being forced back with no chance to attack Hidan like Asuma had, not saying he's slower by any means as Hidan was much more aggressive this fight.


lol @ the atsugai point, Hidan was blown away by the jutsu before Kakashi evaded hence why he had no jacket.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yeah wolf form puts him faster, but there are others with higher speed scores than Hidan that have no purpose being higher with the feats they were given.

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Its pretty much the middle...

Honestly one could argue Kakashi was trying to avoid when Hidan hit him, hence why he was in the air, he jumped backwards but Hidan met him mid-jump before he could evade, either way he was the one being forced back with no chance to attack Hidan like Asuma had, not saying he's slower by any means as Hidan was much more aggressive this fight.


lol @ the atsugai point, Hidan was blown away by the jutsu before Kakashi evaded hence why he had no jacket.

Like who exactly? Cause there is either something you are misinterpreting or something that is easily explainable.

You don't know where they started from so you can't say that this clash took place in the middle of their paths.

He was simply forced back, but you can see him blocking Hidan's attacks with his Kunai.

*Sigh* Kakashi right after this blocks Hidan's back attack and then they clash once more after that. So no, this feat is not comparable to Deidara and Sasuke at all. Deidara said Sasuke was too fast for him. Kakashi never had an issue handling Hidan's speed. Ever.

 

[NarutoX28]

Zexion, there's no instance at any point that suggested that Hidan's speed was far too much for Kakashi to handle. Deidara openly admitted that Sasuke was fast yet Hidan received no such acknowledgement from Kakashi at all. Kakashi only intended to defend against Hidan because he needed to analyze Kakuzu's own fighting style and conserve his stamina if necessary.