Greysama
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FACTS YOU RIGHT DAWG he did spin but not to get out of it he ameno'd out then spun to swing the sword I see you
Update: Accurate Power progression between Naruto and Sasuke
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FACTS YOU RIGHT DAWG he did spin but not to get out of it he ameno'd out then spun to swing the sword I see you
shelke
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I remember making a detailed post on this. Just dug it up from Sasuke base:
A Regular PS Has Wings! There is no such thing as Ashura's Avatar and Indra's PS.
Before you guys read the post, here is the link and more Rinnegan abilities' explanation:
Link
This won't work, so reconstruct it from this and shift the page numbers: http : // www dot narutoforums dot com / showthread.php?t=1012315&page=5
Page 5:
Read this post and use it to your heart's content. All explained:
Before you guys read the post, here is the link and more Rinnegan abilities' explanation:
Link
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This won't work, so reconstruct it from this and shift the page numbers: http : // www dot narutoforums dot com / showthread.php?t=1012315&page=5
Page 5:
Read this post and use it to your heart's content. All explained:
You must be registered for see links
This DOES prove that being low on chakra allows the Beast to be subdued. You haven’t put out any decent evidence to counter it. The only difference between this and the example I am giving – as I explain for the umpteenth time – is that Chakra was wrenched out of Kurama here, and here he has willingly given chakra.
The end result is the same: it lost chakra / it was reduced, resulting in poorer reflexes, less durability and less power.
There is no difference between Ashura’s avatar and BSM… Let me correct myself, there is no such thing as Ashura’s avatar. Nor there is anything called Indra’s PS. Bull shit and nothing but self-made retarded terms concocted at the base here. They have zero foundation in the manga or in the Databook. In fact, the data-book doesn’t even cover this fight. I confirmed it.
Furthermore:
1 – It has been confirmed by the Databook IV that a regular PS without any Senjutsu or Sage’s chakra enhancements has wings– I will expound upon this point later and add it with the whole Mezo deal you keep clinging to repeatedly:
Pg.5:
– The so-called Ashura’s avatar is nothing more than BSM avatar attached with two more clones. That’s it. Naruto Sage of the Six paths mode – already gave the databook explanation for this repeatedly – allows him more mastery, that instead of cancelling them, he simply merged with the clones because of better chakra control and used the extra hands to create the two Rasangans.
It doesn’t make the Avatar stronger. It’s fiction and makes no sense whatsoever: it’s like suggesting that if Naruto makes two clones and cancels it, then he has gained more power.
Also, the avatar was made before Kurama ever sent the NE. It was solely sent to make those Rasangans. Kurama confirms it, which means the avatar acted as a simple conduit for NE. Full stop:
Here you go with that Jubi argument again. Do you even know what the term mutation means? The chakra, even when Sasuke literally sat in it after Naruto gave him that basic BM cloak, never affected Sasuke’s Susano’o tier. Never. Why is it doing it here then? Can I see some proof?
Let’s get one thing crystal clear: Kurama has not mentioned Jubi nor did the PS mutate. You thinking about it and equating it with this PS doesn’t mean much. In fact, it doesn’t mean anything at all. Kurama only states that Sasuke was doing opposite of Sage. The Sage did this:
The end result is the same: it lost chakra / it was reduced, resulting in poorer reflexes, less durability and less power.
There is no difference between Ashura’s avatar and BSM… Let me correct myself, there is no such thing as Ashura’s avatar. Nor there is anything called Indra’s PS. Bull shit and nothing but self-made retarded terms concocted at the base here. They have zero foundation in the manga or in the Databook. In fact, the data-book doesn’t even cover this fight. I confirmed it.
Furthermore:
1 – It has been confirmed by the Databook IV that a regular PS without any Senjutsu or Sage’s chakra enhancements has wings– I will expound upon this point later and add it with the whole Mezo deal you keep clinging to repeatedly:
Pg.5:
Madara's perfect Susano'o is called Perfect Form Susano'o (完成体 須佐能乎, Kanseitai Susano'o), and he's listed as the sole user. It manifests massive amounts of chakra that surrounds the user, taking on the shape of a martial god that dwarfs mountains. It mentions that the difference between this and the normal version is that it perfectly forms an entire body. It also mentions that it's clad in armor that can be reshaped into wings, allowing the user to fly.
Complete( literally full body)Susano'o
Ninjutsu, all ranges, kekke-genkai, offensive, defensive.
Users: Uchiha Madara
Eternity reigns within these pupils, allowing to shape the bravery into clad blue!
(Eternity means that it’s an Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Technique)
The power of the "Mangekyo Sharingan" is able to activate incredible ninjutsu. Enormous chakra clad jutsu materialize, towering over the mountains( exceeding the height of the mountains), taking authority over battlefield to its hands(changing the flow of battle).Appearance of the complete jutsu differs in accordance to the user. Moreover, for users that are good at ninjutsu "Susano'o" themselves, becomes possible to enter/trigger the invocation of the complete body (kanseitai). Furthermore Susano'o in next form can wear special armor which can shape/turn on wings that allow it to fly.
Picture: the great complete Susano'o cutting strength that can cut-off mountain peaks is easily enough to shut down even iron hard resistance (or is enough to make even iron-hard enemies to forfeit the battle).
Complete( literally full body)Susano'o
Ninjutsu, all ranges, kekke-genkai, offensive, defensive.
Users: Uchiha Madara
Eternity reigns within these pupils, allowing to shape the bravery into clad blue!
(Eternity means that it’s an Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Technique)
The power of the "Mangekyo Sharingan" is able to activate incredible ninjutsu. Enormous chakra clad jutsu materialize, towering over the mountains( exceeding the height of the mountains), taking authority over battlefield to its hands(changing the flow of battle).Appearance of the complete jutsu differs in accordance to the user. Moreover, for users that are good at ninjutsu "Susano'o" themselves, becomes possible to enter/trigger the invocation of the complete body (kanseitai). Furthermore Susano'o in next form can wear special armor which can shape/turn on wings that allow it to fly.
Picture: the great complete Susano'o cutting strength that can cut-off mountain peaks is easily enough to shut down even iron hard resistance (or is enough to make even iron-hard enemies to forfeit the battle).
– The so-called Ashura’s avatar is nothing more than BSM avatar attached with two more clones. That’s it. Naruto Sage of the Six paths mode – already gave the databook explanation for this repeatedly – allows him more mastery, that instead of cancelling them, he simply merged with the clones because of better chakra control and used the extra hands to create the two Rasangans.
It doesn’t make the Avatar stronger. It’s fiction and makes no sense whatsoever: it’s like suggesting that if Naruto makes two clones and cancels it, then he has gained more power.
Also, the avatar was made before Kurama ever sent the NE. It was solely sent to make those Rasangans. Kurama confirms it, which means the avatar acted as a simple conduit for NE. Full stop:
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Here you go with that Jubi argument again. Do you even know what the term mutation means? The chakra, even when Sasuke literally sat in it after Naruto gave him that basic BM cloak, never affected Sasuke’s Susano’o tier. Never. Why is it doing it here then? Can I see some proof?
Let’s get one thing crystal clear: Kurama has not mentioned Jubi nor did the PS mutate. You thinking about it and equating it with this PS doesn’t mean much. In fact, it doesn’t mean anything at all. Kurama only states that Sasuke was doing opposite of Sage. The Sage did this:
Pg.1:
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques
The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths
The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
There's also the word 色濃い irokoi used, which means strongly tending to. So maybe it's better to translate the last sentence in a way that reflects that the clans powers "strongly tend to Yin or Yang" (Sharingan, Mokuton etc.).
Ying Yang/Onmyouton page:
Inton (Yin/Dark), which creates form from nothing, and Youton (Yang/Light), which breathes life into form. Skillfully manipulating these two elements, the Sage of Six Paths, Ootsutsuki Hagoromo, developed the Banbutsu Souzou (Creation of All Things) Jutsu. Creating the nine Bijuu out of the Juubi's chakra was also the result of Onmyouton. Afterwards, Inton was inherited more predominately in the Uchiha clan, while Youton was inherited more predominately in the Senju clan.
Then, can only the Uchiha and Senju use this power? The answer is no. For example, even without using a Sharingan, the proportional amount of genjutsu that involves "creating form from nothing" is high. Furthermore, there are many "hiden ninjutsu" passed down among specific shinobi clans that are not affiliated with any of the five nature transformations but are instead grounded in Onmyouton. For example, the Akimichi clan uses Youton to expand their bodies' size, while the Nara clan uses Inton to expand, contract, and transform shadows. In the same vein, even without being Uchiha or Senju, shinobi manipulate chakra and use jutsu, and the basis of that is said to be rooted in Onmyouton.
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques
The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths
The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
There's also the word 色濃い irokoi used, which means strongly tending to. So maybe it's better to translate the last sentence in a way that reflects that the clans powers "strongly tend to Yin or Yang" (Sharingan, Mokuton etc.).
Ying Yang/Onmyouton page:
Inton (Yin/Dark), which creates form from nothing, and Youton (Yang/Light), which breathes life into form. Skillfully manipulating these two elements, the Sage of Six Paths, Ootsutsuki Hagoromo, developed the Banbutsu Souzou (Creation of All Things) Jutsu. Creating the nine Bijuu out of the Juubi's chakra was also the result of Onmyouton. Afterwards, Inton was inherited more predominately in the Uchiha clan, while Youton was inherited more predominately in the Senju clan.
Then, can only the Uchiha and Senju use this power? The answer is no. For example, even without using a Sharingan, the proportional amount of genjutsu that involves "creating form from nothing" is high. Furthermore, there are many "hiden ninjutsu" passed down among specific shinobi clans that are not affiliated with any of the five nature transformations but are instead grounded in Onmyouton. For example, the Akimichi clan uses Youton to expand their bodies' size, while the Nara clan uses Inton to expand, contract, and transform shadows. In the same vein, even without being Uchiha or Senju, shinobi manipulate chakra and use jutsu, and the basis of that is said to be rooted in Onmyouton.
What is the opposite of this? That’s right, pulling chakra into the Mezo to create a Jubi later. The dragon hook like forms to pull the chakra out of the Jin or to drag the Bijuu out are all the same with Nagato, Madara, and Sasuke and this chain is an Outer Path ability – simply more advanced in each form:
Outer Path ability:
Pain causing ability:
Unofficial translation on Wikipedia as I am told:
Then we have the other chains:
Madara’s Mezo hooks:
Sasuke’s (PS acting as) Mezo hooks:
Though it’s originating from the Bijuus. As he obviously, doesn’t have an actual Mezo – it’s the same thing; an Outer Path ability.
He used his PS as a Mezo – a container – to house the Chakra to power his offensive Ninjutsu. That’s it. Without proof, you are only preaching it to your own choir when the manga 1) doesn’t say anything about Jubi and 2) only the container reference is made.
As for the so-called “he changed the structure so it must be uber powerful”, then here comes that wings reference I made earlier. Your evidence is nothing more than hearsay and fiction on your part when we have seen Madara use the same spare structure that can create Wings to change PS’s shape. Sasuke used those same spare wings structure to create a different container structure, as the wings are missing from this body; in fact, it literally has no back above its waist-line:
Madara using the wing structure to create extra room to form a shield over Kurama:
Outer Path ability:
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Pain causing ability:
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Unofficial translation on Wikipedia as I am told:
A technique derived from the Outer Path which manifests chakra chains to bind anyone who touches the user's chakra receivers. According to Obito, this binding power is far greater than that of Nagato's Outer Path. The chains have a cursed seal which suppresses the power of the tailed beasts, and according to Kokuō, also cause a great deal of pain to their victims.
Then we have the other chains:
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Madara’s Mezo hooks:
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Sasuke’s (PS acting as) Mezo hooks:
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Though it’s originating from the Bijuus. As he obviously, doesn’t have an actual Mezo – it’s the same thing; an Outer Path ability.
He used his PS as a Mezo – a container – to house the Chakra to power his offensive Ninjutsu. That’s it. Without proof, you are only preaching it to your own choir when the manga 1) doesn’t say anything about Jubi and 2) only the container reference is made.
As for the so-called “he changed the structure so it must be uber powerful”, then here comes that wings reference I made earlier. Your evidence is nothing more than hearsay and fiction on your part when we have seen Madara use the same spare structure that can create Wings to change PS’s shape. Sasuke used those same spare wings structure to create a different container structure, as the wings are missing from this body; in fact, it literally has no back above its waist-line:
Madara using the wing structure to create extra room to form a shield over Kurama:
He used his PS as a Mezo – a container – to house the Chakra to power his offensive Ninjutsu. That’s it. Without proof, you are only preaching it to your own choir when the manga 1) doesn’t say anything about Jubi and 2) only the container reference is made.
As for the so-called “he changed the structure so it must be uber powerful”, then here comes that wings reference I made earlier. Your evidence is nothing more than hearsay and fiction on your part when we have seen Madara use the same spare structure that can create Wings to change PS’s shape. Sasuke used those same spare wings structure to create a different container structure, as the wings are missing from this body; in fact, it literally has no back above its waist-line.
Madara using the wing structure to create extra room to form a shield over Kurama:
As for the so-called “he changed the structure so it must be uber powerful”, then here comes that wings reference I made earlier. Your evidence is nothing more than hearsay and fiction on your part when we have seen Madara use the same spare structure that can create Wings to change PS’s shape. Sasuke used those same spare wings structure to create a different container structure, as the wings are missing from this body; in fact, it literally has no back above its waist-line.
Madara using the wing structure to create extra room to form a shield over Kurama:
The structure that can be changed into wings on PS – the block like pattern – Those same large blocky arms on the back are turned into wings:
Since 100% Kurama is twice the size of Naruto’s BM avatar, even its face couldn’t be completely concealed:
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Since 100% Kurama is twice the size of Naruto’s BM avatar, even its face couldn’t be completely concealed:
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This is exactly what Sasuke did to shield BM:
Sasuke’s PS reshaped into a Mezo container. Large parts of it are literally hollow. You can see the chakra peaking from behind the – heck, it doesn’t even have an arm under than a small portion of the frontal plating. Even its face is almost bare. It’s back above the waist line has no plating at all:
Regular uncoloured imaged:
When the PS above doesn’t even have a bodkin sized hole. It’s completely plated with 100% structure. Give me a break.
BM Shield:
Sasuke’s PS literally shown blanketing Naruto’s BSM avatar. There was no fusion nonsense going on, and the dialogue “it’s the same as Madara” further cements my argument:
Not even a tiny part of it is peaking out.
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Sasuke’s PS reshaped into a Mezo container. Large parts of it are literally hollow. You can see the chakra peaking from behind the – heck, it doesn’t even have an arm under than a small portion of the frontal plating. Even its face is almost bare. It’s back above the waist line has no plating at all:
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Regular uncoloured imaged:
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When the PS above doesn’t even have a bodkin sized hole. It’s completely plated with 100% structure. Give me a break.
BM Shield:
Sasuke’s PS literally shown blanketing Naruto’s BSM avatar. There was no fusion nonsense going on, and the dialogue “it’s the same as Madara” further cements my argument:
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Not even a tiny part of it is peaking out.
Madara:
Sasuke:
1 – The same shoulder covers.
2 – The same blocky arms either turned into wings, or expanded to shield others.
Madara and Sasuke don’t have infinite chakra to squander. There is no level above PS. The same winged blocky space is reinvented to suit shapes. Sasuke’s Bijuu container literally has no back, hollow arms, exposed face and no wings. What does that mean? Shouldn’t be that hard for even a five year old to figure out after this evidence.
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Sasuke:
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1 – The same shoulder covers.
2 – The same blocky arms either turned into wings, or expanded to shield others.
Madara and Sasuke don’t have infinite chakra to squander. There is no level above PS. The same winged blocky space is reinvented to suit shapes. Sasuke’s Bijuu container literally has no back, hollow arms, exposed face and no wings. What does that mean? Shouldn’t be that hard for even a five year old to figure out after this evidence.
In both the cases wings are gone and the shape is changed. That’s it. Stop trying to add more room to this when there isn’t any. PS cannot move faster than Sasuke’s own reaction. What you have posted is fiction. PS is an ninjutsu, it means, the chakra has to flow through Sasuke strengthen it. Why are you forgetting then, when it’s literally stupid crap that shouldn’t be forgotten at this point?
Heck, Sasuke filled his Susano’o chakra with Senjutsu to make it a Senjutsu Susano’o – Senjutsu wasn’t encased under it:
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PS’s defense cannot be increased without the Chakra not flowing through Sasuke himself - as it’s his Ninjutsu, and only he has the power to increase its affects - and PS barely working as a container.
The above post has explanied the following:
- Shinra Tensai.
- Bansho Tenin.
- Outer Path Chains.
- A regular PS has wings.
- There is no Susano'o above Perfect Susano'o.
- There is no Avatar above Kurama Bijuu Mode Avatar.
DHOH
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I know..
Greysama
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That other shit you still on some crack tho
DHOH
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Lol okay like what? Tanked? Yea okay..
Greysama
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And the fact that raikage moves near instantaneously Sasuke and kinshiki were clearly visible to the eye not even close to 3/4 speed
DHOH
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If you can find two people to agree with you I just might reconsider..
KidGamer65
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1. Bold is wrong.
2. If it was right then your argument only gets weaker than before.
3. His chakra size getting larger doesn't mean he can make a Susanoo equal to the one he made against Naruto in every single way.
Greysama
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If you can find me naruto faps instead of Sasuke I will easily get that lmfao
DHOH
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Lol idk. Naruto faps are going to be to keen on you saying Raikage speed feats are better.
Greysama
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Then they're also idiots the only three ttimes naruto looked faster was dodging the raikage, deflecting the TBB of the 6 tailed beasts, and blitzing kaguya
DHOH
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Sasuke already has strong chakra, it grew stronger with every advancement (MS,EMS,RIN, Rikudou). It doesn't get stronger with age, it gets larger.
Never claimed Sasuke could make a Susanoo equal to the one used against Naruto, I said he can make the same kind as the one he made against Naruto. Obviously it would be weaker because of less chakra.. But the potency of the chakra is still there.
Jiren
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Outosukis and Hagoromo tiers >>>> Raikage and Minato league shinobi in every physical stat.
DHOH
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I'm not seeing the dodging the Raikage a great feat when he was already moving and pre warned. The other two I can agree with.
But Hebi Sasuke has a great speed feat, does that mean he's faster than Adult Sasuke? No way.
shelke
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It's a container to house chakra not absorb or meld with it, which it didn't. He can make it again, but without the Bijuu chakra for Indra's Arrow. Nothing in the manga shows it increased its defense and offense (bar IA). Literally nothing.
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Greysama
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That's what I'm saying speed is son inconsistent both used to move near instantaneously but they're nowhere near that level it APPEARS now
DHOH
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You're right. I shouldn't have said weaker but more than likely Sasuke won't be able to maintain Susanoo as long due to not having the same leve(amount) of chakra.
shelke
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Why can't he? That Bijuu chakra isn't fueling his PS. He never absorbed it. He simply used the spare wing structures to create a container, which is why the back and large parts of the arms, along with the face are completely naked. I even explained it in my post. It's PS, simply molded into a container.
DHOH
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Lol not going to lie your post was long so I didn't read it all.. So tell me what exactly do you think the biju chakra did?
shelke
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He wanted to create a Jubi. The manga never explained much, but, it powered Indra's Arrow. He emptied all of it in a single attack.
Let me simplify it. Look at the regular PS with its wings out:
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Notice how the overall wing and plates structure is completely missing here to create the container. The back is completely naked, the wings are gone and so is the most expensive planting, along with more than half of the arms' structures - Mind you a single wing is larger than a PS's body as I showed above:
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Not only that, you can clearly see the Bijuu Chakra underneath the PS structure. It's literally flowing out of its body. If it was a part of Susano'o and was fueling it, it never would have done that. We can even see Sasuke practically draw out and create the arrow from the flowing chakra.
It cannot get any more simple than this.
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