[Discussion] Can Whitebeard beat Mihawk?

Bogard

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Kin
8💸
Kumi
3💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Blablabla
Zoro is a swordsman and would lose to Mihawk in swordsmanship, but in reality he'd beat Mihawk in his secondarily fighting style(kickmanship). Mihawk may not be a swordsman as well. He is only considered below WB and Kaido's titles when using his weakplay(swordsmanship) when in reality his karate kicks would crush Shanks, Whitebeard and Kaido together. That's how bullshit you sounds

Whitebeard and Kaido's titles include every humans. Shanks is a human, so he is below them. Mihawk's title includes every swordsman. Shanks is a swordsman, so he is below Mihawk. Keep whining
 

Love Cook

Active member
Elite
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
5,322
Kin
707💸
Kumi
1💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Zoro is a swordsman and would lose to Mihawk in swordsmanship, but in reality he'd beat Mihawk in his secondarily fighting style(kickmanship). Mihawk may not be a swordsman as well. He is only considered below WB and Kaido's titles when using his weakplay(swordsmanship) when in reality his karate kicks would crush Shanks, Whitebeard and Kaido together. That's how bullshit you sounds

Whitebeard and Kaido's titles include every humans. Shanks is a human, so he is below them. Mihawk's title includes every swordsman. Shanks is a swordsman, so he is below Mihawk. Keep whining
Shanks has the title one of the four strongest pirates, Mihawk is a pirate. So he is below Shanks. Keep whining.
 

Bogard

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Kin
8💸
Kumi
3💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Does Mihawk actually fall under this title, considering Shichibukai aren't "active" pirates?
On the same page Garp even said only the shuchibukai and marinr HQ could withstand their might as a way to seperate the groups and all that while comparing a situation where the yonko empire is hyped up in terms of piracy where a solo guy like Mihawk can't compete with ro a individual power title but don't bother. As long as it helps him sleep at night
 

chopstickchakra

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
12,896
Kin
4,684💸
Kumi
129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Zoro is a swordsman and would lose to Mihawk in swordsmanship, but in reality he'd beat Mihawk in his secondarily fighting style(kickmanship). Mihawk may not be a swordsman as well. He is only considered below WB and Kaido's titles when using his weakplay(swordsmanship) when in reality his karate kicks would crush Shanks, Whitebeard and Kaido together. That's how bullshit you sounds

Whitebeard and Kaido's titles include every humans. Shanks is a human, so he is below them. Mihawk's title includes every swordsman. Shanks is a swordsman, so he is below Mihawk.
You can't even debate anymore you're so worked up. This entire time we've been discussing possible top tier fights between Mihawk why would you revert to a character known and accepted to be below him to try and make a point? Answer, because you have no reasonable retorts so you resort to mockery and an attempt to trivialize the notion by applying ridiculous parameters to try and detract from the scenario as a whole.

Keep whining
Oh the irony of a crybaby like you who feels compelled to reply to every post with a hint of negativity towards your man crush(see I can do it too) with hostility and insults. The only one whining is you "Wah they don't agree with my understanding of WSS, let me yell at them until they see it my way the stupid idiots wah"
 

Punk Hazard

Active member
Immortal
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
59,542
Kin
1,661💸
Kumi
11,569💴
Trait Points
50⚔️
Smoker, Fujitora and Akainu still see them as pirates. They're not 'active' marines now.
In fact, wouldn't Smoker's warning to Tashigi that "Once a pirate, always a pirate," when talking about Shichibukai show that the Warlords are considered not to be like "active" pirates? If there wasn't enough people who viewed them as separate from other pirates, Smoker wouldn't have to give Tashigi that warning.
On the same page Garp even said only the shuchibukai and marinr HQ could withstand their might as a way to seperate the groups and all that while comparing a situation where the yonko empire is hyped up in terms of piracy where a solo guy like Mihawk can't compete with ro a individual power title but don't bother. As long as it helps him sleep at night
I think some people see it as Marine HQ+ Shichibukai=Yonko, not HQ=Shichibukai=Yonko.
 

chopstickchakra

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
12,896
Kin
4,684💸
Kumi
129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Shank is primarily a swordsman fam. At best, his other methods will only be equal to his swordmanship, which would mean they'd still fail to Mihawk. Nothing in the manga suggests otherwise as of yet.
Primarily, yes I don't deny that. Also just because his other skills wouldn't be at a level above his swordsmanship doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't be able to perform better against swordplay then swordplay.

I.E. you have the #1 boxer fighting the #2 boxer who is also #2 Judo practitioner(Not Shanks, we're getting too focused on one individual beating Mihawk when I'm talking in a general sense, it doesn't have to be Shanks) in an all out fight(no style restrictions) the #1boxer(mihawk) would be able to beat the #2 boxer in the area he's recognized as the best in but that doesn't mean that his boxing would still be able to overcome his opponents Judo if he started using it. Whether he could stop it or not would depend on the 2 in the fight but simply being #1 boxer and fighting another boxer doesn't mean he would win the fight if the fight stopped focusing on boxing techniques.
 

Punk Hazard

Active member
Immortal
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
59,542
Kin
1,661💸
Kumi
11,569💴
Trait Points
50⚔️
Primarily, yes I don't deny that. Also just because his other skills wouldn't be at a level above his swordsmanship doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't be able to perform better against swordplay then swordplay.

I.E. you have the #1 boxer fighting the #2 boxer who is also #2 Judo practitioner(Not Shanks, we're getting too focused on one individual beating Mihawk when I'm talking in a general sense, it doesn't have to be Shanks) in an all out fight(no style restrictions) the #1boxer(mihawk) would be able to beat the #2 boxer in the area he's recognized as the best in but that doesn't mean that his boxing would still be able to overcome his opponents Judo if he started using it. Whether he could stop it or not would depend on the 2 in the fight but simply being #1 boxer and fighting another boxer doesn't mean he would win the fight if the fight stopped focusing on boxing techniques.
Nah. It's as simple as this, just as Avi said earlier:

Mihawk's power using a sword=15
Shanks' power using a sword=12
Shanks' power using anything else= less than or equal to 12.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Shanks' immediate fighting style after swordplay is a martial art. This martial art, at best, is gonna be at 12 because Shanks' primary style, swordplay, peaks at 12. Shanks using both of these isn't 12+12, it's still, at best, 12 because that's his max output.

The only way Shanks has a fighting style that's better than swordplay is if Oda has made his combat portrayal thus far all red herrings, because so far, his primary style has been swordplay, so it should be what his max output comes from. And there's absolutely no reason to suspect it's a red herring.
 

HashiraMadara

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
6,683
Kin
137💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I remember this:
Shanks Fanboys

* Kaido: World's Strongest Creature
Creature refers to the non human foes. Shanks intercepted him(They don't even know if it was an actual fight or a simple talk)

* Whitebeard: World's Strongest Man
This refers to prime Whitebeard. Not old one. Shanks clashed with him.

* Mihawk: World's Strongest Swordsman
No he may win using a sword. Shanks has other methods, he has conqu's haki etc. :| He is not primary a swordsman



My f*cking word, this has been happening for years...

They are all in denial, especially chopsticks
 

chopstickchakra

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
12,896
Kin
4,684💸
Kumi
129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Nah. It's as simple as this, just as Avi said earlier:

Mihawk's power using a sword=15
Shanks' power using a sword=12
Shanks' power using anything else= less than or equal to 12.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Shanks' immediate fighting style after swordplay is a martial art. This martial art, at best, is gonna be at 12 because Shanks' primary style, swordplay, peaks at 12. Shanks using both of these isn't 12+12, it's still, at best, 12 because that's his max output.

You guys keep using math but only math that will help your stance. A fight isn't a math equation either it can't always accurately be broken down like that not in real life and definitely not in fiction. Just because his rate is lower doesn't mean it performs the same. We'll go with your what if;

if Shanks' second style was martial arts and a 12 while Mihawks sword was a 15(which tbh is already working towards your advantage as a 3 point difference is fairly noticeable and we know Shanks and Mihawk are close in skill and capability but anyway) but Shanks martial arts style happened to be catered to fighting armed opponents it wouldn't perform the same against a 15 rate sword as his 12 rate sword would. They're both equal rates for him but one is made to give an advantage over his opponents fighting method which would intrinsically allow it to perform better.

And yes I am aware I am making a scenario in which Mihawk loses because that is what I am arguing, there does exist a scenario where Mihawk could possibly lose to an opponent who uses a sword as his primary. I'm not arguing that that swordsman HAS to be Shanks, I'm using Shanks because he's the most likely of characters we know to make it possible. Fuji could be another one but nobody seems to want to bring up his DF going against Mihawk, they all wanna focus on Shanks because they feel(claim to know) he doesn't have another fighting style.


The only way Shanks has a fighting style that's better than swordplay is if Oda has made his combat portrayal thus far all red herrings, because so far, his primary style has been swordplay, so it should be what his max output comes from. And there's absolutely no reason to suspect it's a red herring.
They wouldn't really need to be seen as red herrings because Oda hasn't really developed Shanks at all, what you're calling his core could really just be his surface. It's interpretation.

Like that other post I saw you had made about Kizaru and Rayleigh, you said Kizaru broke out a sword which was a casual style for him since he doesn't use it often but it could be just the opposite, it could be that Kizaru breaks out that sword for people who can give him a real tough challenge, it's up to interpretation. You could argue it is a weaker style for him since he didn't use it at MF but you could argue he didn't need to break it out at MF because all the other Admirals were there and he wasn't having as hard a time getting around the fleet commanders as he seemed to with Rayleigh. At MF Kizaru was able to bounce from battle to battle but with Rayliegh he was pretty much occupied.

I remember this:
Shanks Fanboys

* Kaido: World's Strongest Creature
Creature refers to the non human foes. Shanks intercepted him(They don't even know if it was an actual fight or a simple talk)

* Whitebeard: World's Strongest Man
This refers to prime Whitebeard. Not old one. Shanks clashed with him.


* Mihawk: World's Strongest Swordsman
No he may win using a sword. Shanks has other methods, he has conqu's haki etc. :| He is not primary a swordsman



My f*cking word, this has been happening for years...

They are all in denial, especially chopsticks
@ Bold WB line this is the exact same excuse you and others used in this very thread as a reason why Mihawk can beat WB despite the title WSM. smh go home. How exactly is it denial when I've never made either of the first two claims and I never said he wasn't a primary swordsman(see post just a few above for your illiterate self) and I never said he may win using a sword


Also none of you(Bog,Hashi,Rik) have answered what will happen to this whole topic if it turns out Kaidou also fights with a sword. Are you gonna claim he's not a swordsmen because his DF(Which is still unconfirmed) or are you gonna claim Mihawk will be able to beat Kaidou if it turns out his primary is a sword(which isn't that far of a guess since he seems vested in Wano, the samurai country) If someone like Kaidou uses a sword does WSS still mean Mihawk can beat anyone using a sword in an all out fight?
 
Last edited:

Bogard

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Kin
8💸
Kumi
3💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I think some people see it as Marine HQ+ Shichibukai=Yonko, not HQ=Shichibukai=Yonko.
Marine HQ+Shichibukai = 4Yonkos. We saw how the strongest pirate's crew(labelled as the closest to one piece) was crushed by just a fraction of their power with all the top tiers being almost unscathed except Akainu. Either way it was just to show how Garp was delicate enough to seperate the 3groups of power(yonko, shichibukai, marine HQ)
 

LBeezy

Active member
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
2,190
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Shank is primarily a swordsman fam. At best, his other methods will only be equal to his swordmanship, which would mean they'd still fail to Mihawk. Nothing in the manga suggests otherwise as of yet.
Where's the proof for these claims?

Shank's isn't "primarily" anything as of yet.. we've never actually seen him in a legit fight.

How in the world can you say @bold ??

What's better Law with only his sword, or sword + DF?

Fujitora with only sword, or sword + DF?

WB with only Bisento? Or bisento + DF?



Shanks using his sword can be the same thing as Whitebeard using his Bisento..
 

Punk Hazard

Active member
Immortal
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
59,542
Kin
1,661💸
Kumi
11,569💴
Trait Points
50⚔️
Where's the proof for these claims?

Shank's isn't "primarily" anything as of yet.. we've never actually seen him in a legit fight.

How in the world can you say @bold ??
Shanks' portrayal places him primarily as being a swordsman.

When Shanks thought Ace came to fight him, he grabbed his sword.

When Shanks and Whitebeard's conversation went south, Shanks stood up and pulled out his sword BEFORE Whitebeard made any movement for battle.

When Shanks blocked Akainu's punch, he did so with a sword.

When Shanks declared he and his crew were willing to fight, he pulled out his sword.

When Shanks was a kid on Roger's ship during battle, he was shown reaching for or using his sword.

The fact that Shanks has never been portrayed as using anything but swordplay as a means of combat shows that he is primarily a swordsman, so his portrayal for now is that Shanks is at his best when using a sword.

What's better Law with only his sword, or sword + DF?

Fujitora with only sword, or sword + DF?

WB with only Bisento? Or bisento + DF?
These are examples of someone using a DF to enhance their primary style of fighting in a unique way. Shanks most likely uses Haki to enhance his swordplay, and just like Law and Fujitora w/ sword+DF, Shanks with sword+Haki is inferior to Mihawk

Shanks using his sword can be the same thing as Whitebeard using his Bisento..
Yeah, because WB's bisento was part of his primary fighting style. WB's bisento wasn't some accessory for show, he used his Bisento just as much as he did punches to release his Quakes.
 

LBeezy

Active member
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
2,190
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Shanks' portrayal places him primarily as being a swordsman.

When Shanks thought Ace came to fight him, he grabbed his sword.

When Shanks and Whitebeard's conversation went south, Shanks stood up and pulled out his sword BEFORE Whitebeard made any movement for battle.

When Shanks blocked Akainu's punch, he did so with a sword.

When Shanks declared he and his crew were willing to fight, he pulled out his sword.

When Shanks was a kid on Roger's ship during battle, he was shown reaching for or using his sword.

The fact that Shanks has never been portrayed as using anything but swordplay as a means of combat shows that he is primarily a swordsman, so his portrayal for now is that Shanks is at his best when using a sword.


These are examples of someone using a DF to enhance their primary style of fighting in a unique way. Shanks most likely uses Haki to enhance his swordplay, and just like Law and Fujitora w/ sword+DF, Shanks with sword+Haki is inferior to Mihawk


Yeah, because WB's bisento was part of his primary fighting style. WB's bisento wasn't some accessory for show, he used his Bisento just as much as he did punches to release his Quakes.
Since when does a manga character use their best form of fighting as the first choice?

Luffy uses a base attack or G2 or even G3 to gauge his opponent's strength before attacking with G4.

Good writing on Oda's behalf is having a man with one arm use his sword to block attacks from fire or magma or sharp objects.. like why would I use my one and only arm, when I have a sword on my waist?


The whole point went over your head I see..

WhiteBeard vs Mihawk

WB can only use his bisento.

Or

WB can use his bisento, DF, fist, anything he wants.

How would WB's other methods be only equal to his Bisento at best???

Explain that please.
 

LBeezy

Active member
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
2,190
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Shanks literally has swords in his jolly roger, ffs stop clinging on to nothing. The man is a clear cut swordsman.
By this logic how come he doesn't walk around with two swords on him at all times then? :sdo:


Lol stop clinging on to Mihawk's title as if it is 100% certain he wins against other swordsman who have other means of fighting besides just swordsmanship.
 

Punk Hazard

Active member
Immortal
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
59,542
Kin
1,661💸
Kumi
11,569💴
Trait Points
50⚔️
Since when does a manga character use their best form of fighting as the first choice?
Kaku engaged Zoro with swordplay first, which is just as good as his Rokushiki.

Zoro pulled out all three sword to start fighting people more than once. It's not as uncommon as you think.

Also, it's not about using it the first time, it's the fact that it's the only thing he's used EVERY time, including against top tier fighters like Whitebeard and Akainu.


Luffy uses a base attack or G2 or even G3 to gauge his opponent's strength before attacking with G4.
Gear 2, 3, and 4 are not fighting styles. They are enhancers. Luffy's fighting style remains the same regardless of which Gear he is using: Punch, kick, scratch, and claw. He's a brawler, and regardless of which Gear he is using, he fights the same way every time.

Shanks pulling out his sword first doesn't mean it's not his primary fighting style. It just means that, like Luffy, he has ways to upgrade that style when the battle gets more serious and he's done gauging. With Luffy, it's the Gears, and with Shanks, it's more than likely Haki. Either way, it's still just one fighting style being upgraded, not switching to a new style of combat.

Good writing on Oda's behalf is having a man with one arm use his sword to block attacks from fire or magma or sharp objects.. like why would I use my one and only arm, when I have a sword on my waist?
Except Akainu was the only time Shanks pulled out his sword as a response to what another person was doing. He drew his sword BEFORE Ace did anything to attack. He pulled out his sword BEFORE Whitebeard did anything to attack. He pulled out his sword BEFORE any of the Marines took on his challenge. So it's not like Shanks is going "Hmm a sword is the best thing to use here," using a sword is simply his primary choice. It's not a situation by situation basis, it's a choice he makes every time.


The whole point went over your head I see..

WhiteBeard vs Mihawk

WB can only use his bisento.

Or

WB can use his bisento, DF, fist, anything he wants.

How would WB's other methods be only equal to his Bisento at best???
This has absolutely nothing to do with Shanks vs Mihawk because Whitebeard isn't a swordsman, and this doesn't match your point.

Another reason this fails is because WB's primary style of fighting is releasing Quakes towards his enemies. He does so by infusing his Quakes into his fists or Bisento. He barely ever punches normally or uses his Bisento to actually cut a person.

A person's primary style of fighting is going to be what they are capable of delivering their max output with. Meaning that if Shanks has a martial art, if his primary style of fighting is his sword, his martial art won't be as good as his swordplay because the latter is PRIMARY. It's what he does and uses the most. Just like Sanji's kicks are his primary fighting style, so they're better than his ability to use knives/swords.

I know what point you're trying to make, and it's wrong.
 

chopstickchakra

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
12,896
Kin
4,684💸
Kumi
129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Since when does a manga character use their best form of fighting as the first choice?

Luffy uses a base attack or G2 or even G3 to gauge his opponent's strength before attacking with G4.

Good writing on Oda's behalf is having a man with one arm use his sword to block attacks from fire or magma or sharp objects.. like why would I use my one and only arm, when I have a sword on my waist?


The whole point went over your head I see..

WhiteBeard vs Mihawk

WB can only use his bisento.

Or

WB can use his bisento, DF, fist, anything he wants.

How would WB's other methods be only equal to his Bisento at best???

Explain that please.
I was gonna bring up the starting point and how basically all we've seen is starting point Shanks but I didn't really feel like continuing this so good on ya for that. As to your point about WB, they probably wouldn't be equal they'd be higher if only slightly but most won't accept that as possible idk why it's the equivalent to saying I can't knock you out with my fist but I could with my foot.
 

ToshiZO

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
4,657
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
By this logic how come he doesn't walk around with two swords on him at all times then? :sdo:


Lol stop clinging on to Mihawk's title as if it is 100% certain he wins against other swordsman who have other means of fighting besides just swordsmanship.
lmfaoo dawg he has one arm. He might have been a nitoryu wielder before he lost his arm.

Not to mention that doesn't even follow any logic, him having swords as his jolly roger automatically means the guy lives breathes, and bleeds swords.The number doesn't matter. That is what represents Shanks, that is what he chose to represent him. Remember pirate flags are not toys

You must be registered for see images
 
Top