Is The Universe As Simple As Good And Evil?

Devauzamaki

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
3,294
Reaction score
297
That seems to be only applicable by human logic right?

Sure we may think the whole us base around good and bad.

But even without humans the universe would still be here.

Idk it just seems like we got a lot more to learn and we dumbing ourselves down by restricting our minds to teo basic concepts.

If there is an afterlife maybe we can explore what reality actually means more.

Maybe we'll realize the universe is just one big cause and effect.

I honestly feel like we haven't even scratched the surface of ours reality truth

What about you guys??
 

Prog

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
3,716
Reaction score
194
I believe, unless you're of some established religious faith, good and evil are not static. They change with society's moral compass.
 

Punk Hazard

Sage of Six Posts 🔮
Immortal
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
59,557
Reaction score
4,729
Good and evil are man-made constructs meant to act as the basis of human civilization. Fabricated or natural isn't important. The concepts remain integral to our societies regardless.
 

YellowFang

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
9,806
Reaction score
704
There's no Good/Evil, that's a matter of perspective and intention.

There is 'Right' and 'Wrong'... And a person knows when he's doing either of it.
Since I'm a believer, humans are given the right to choose between choices but everyone has a built-in moral compass, some follow it, some completely ignore it.
 

Wolves

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
349
None of us matter. Good and Evil are man made illusions.


#staywoke
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
209
Reaction score
101
As a Christian, I believe there is a distinct moral law given by God, but from an atheistic worldview, naw, it's all subjective and kind of an illusion, but still a helpful concept for maintaining a functioning society..

#PhilosophyBase
 

Deadlift

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,387
Reaction score
265
Have fun

[video=youtube;yqaHXKLRKzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg[/video]
 

Your Creepy Stalker

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Messages
15,925
Reaction score
980
Good is anything I agree with that lines up with the changing social values that I grew up with, and Evil is everything else.
That's meant to be sarcasm, but I now realise it could actually be taken seriously. Just saying it's not an easy difference. Outside fiction, of course.
 
Last edited:

Chikombo

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,420
Reaction score
1,327
Have fun

[video=youtube;yqaHXKLRKzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg[/video]

Honestly what's the point of debating against religion, atheism always wins.
OT I think that people can tell bad from good without society, you don't need others to dictate what is right and wrong. Society in itself can be bad just look at apartheid, discrimination, genocide and war. Those are things society has dictated to be the norm even though they are wrong.
As far as if it's as simple as good and evil, I don't know but it doesn't really matter to me, people can be as nice as possible but society are gonna deem the as deplorable anyway if they do anything wrong. And that's what matters to me, people are gonna look down on me if I do something wrong even if I am a nice guy, and people might think being mean or even bad is a good thing even if people have their feelings hurt or actually gets hurt and there is nothing I can do to change that.
 
Last edited:

Deadlift

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,387
Reaction score
265
Honestly what's the point of debating against religion, atheism always wins.

Atheism always wins? You seem quite unfamiliar with these debates. The specific debate I linked wasn't about religion or atheism, but about the foundation of morality
 

Yata Mirror

Leaf Village Regular 🍃
Regular
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
902
Reaction score
105
It is logically impossible for the universe to be simply Black and White.. There has to be different shades.

The idea of a static good or bad is only dictated by religion and society. Immediately one is released from the shackles of religion you'll appreciate that a less parochial view will reveal the universe to more than just a logical 1 or 0

I'm not saying there are no good things or bad things.. I'm saying they're not as static as religion claims..

Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not bear false witness (lying)

Each of the above can't be cemented as they are, certain factors may come into play that make them very necessary, even for the survival of the human race
 

Chikombo

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,420
Reaction score
1,327
Atheism always wins? You seem quite unfamiliar with these debates. The specific debate I linked wasn't about religion or atheism, but about the foundation of morality

It said God debate so I assumed religion was involved. Give me one example where religion wins.
 

Marin

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,796
Reaction score
503
Have fun

[video=youtube;yqaHXKLRKzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg[/video]

lol I remember watching that thing. I can't believe how the atheist camps proclaimed Harris' victory so loudly when literally his every point got blown to smithereens by Craig. In the end he went completely off-topic with his ramblings. Seriously, I find this one of the biggest victories for Craig.

It said God debate so I assumed religion was involved. Give me one example where religion wins.

lol how about every WLC debate aside the one with Kagan?
 

Jinrou

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
10,510
Reaction score
785
That seems to be only applicable by human logic right?

Sure we may think the whole us base around good and bad.

But even without humans the universe would still be here.

Idk it just seems like we got a lot more to learn and we dumbing ourselves down by restricting our minds to teo basic concepts.

If there is an afterlife maybe we can explore what reality actually means more.

Maybe we'll realize the universe is just one big cause and effect.

I honestly feel like we haven't even scratched the surface of ours reality truth

What about you guys??

bold..lol definitely agree. I feel humanity as a whole does not even know some questions it should be asking not less knowing the answer to them.
 

Deadlift

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,387
Reaction score
265
lol I remember watching that thing. I can't believe how the atheist camps proclaimed Harris' victory so loudly when literally his every point got blown to smithereens by Craig. In the end he went completely off-topic with his ramblings. Seriously, I find this one of the biggest victories for Craig.



lol how about every WLC debate aside the one with Kagan?

Well, the only on topic argumentations Harris made were the ones in his opening speech. After Craig's rebuttal, Sam Harris started talking about the cruelty of the Christian or Islamic worldview out of nowhere, going completely off topic (as Craig noticed).
Well, kids proclaimed Harris the winner because he, Dawkins and their friends are the non plus ultra of the intellectuality in their opinion. Pretty sure the 90% of them skipped all the parts in which Craig was speaking.

Well, about Kagan (not being a fanboy) Craig said he didn't go "full power" because the organizers of the debate explicitly asked him to keep it as a friendly discussion rather than a debate. They apparently didn't ask the same to Kagan.

Peter Millican and Bart Ehrman held their own quite well against Craig though
 

Rohan

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
24,320
Reaction score
4,102
When we look at things, we take a three way perspective on it. It is either 1) Good, 2) Bad or 3) Neutral. However this perspective is based on our human upbringing and moral values. If you suppress theses qualities for a while, you will realize that the concept of good, bad and neutral is very dynamic. If you look at it even further you will realize that these moral distinctions are irrelevant, cause everything in this Universe is one and that is the power of oneness.

Here is a paragraph from the novel "Siddhartha" which explains what I mean to say very well :-

Siddhartha saw it and smiled.

"Bent down to me!" he whispered quietly in Govinda's ear. "Bend down to
me! Like this, even closer! Very close! Kiss my forehead, Govinda!"

But while Govinda with astonishment, and yet drawn by great love and
expectation, obeyed his words, bent down closely to him and touched his
forehead with his lips, something miraculous happened to him. While his
thoughts were still dwelling on Siddhartha's wondrous words, while he
was still struggling in vain and with reluctance to think away time, to
imagine Nirvana and Sansara as one, while even a certain contempt for
the words of his friend was fighting in him against an immense love and
veneration, this happened to him:

He no longer saw the face of his friend Siddhartha, instead he saw
other faces, many, a long sequence, a flowing river of faces, of
hundreds, of thousands, which all came and disappeared, and yet all
seemed to be there simultaneously, which all constantly changed and
renewed themselves, and which were still all Siddhartha. He saw the
face of a fish, a carp, with an infinitely painfully opened mouth, the
face of a dying fish, with fading eyes--he saw the face of a new-born
child, red and full of wrinkles, distorted from crying--he saw the face
of a murderer, he saw him plunging a knife into the body of another
person--he saw, in the same second, this criminal in bondage, kneeling
and his head being chopped off by the executioner with one blow of his
sword--he saw the bodies of men and women, naked in positions and cramps
of frenzied love--he saw corpses stretched out, motionless, cold, void--
he saw the heads of animals, of boars, of crocodiles, of elephants, of
bulls, of birds--he saw gods, saw Krishna, saw Agni--he saw all of these
figures and faces in a thousand relationships with one another, each one
helping the other, loving it, hating it, destroying it, giving re-birth
to it, each one was a will to die, a passionately painful confession of
transitoriness, and yet none of then died, each one only transformed,
was always re-born, received evermore a new face, without any time
having passed between the one and the other face--and all of these
figures and faces rested, flowed, generated themselves, floated along
and merged with each other, and they were all constantly covered by
something thin, without individuality of its own, but yet existing, like
a thin glass or ice, like a transparent skin, a shell or mold or mask of
water, and this mask was smiling, and this mask was Siddhartha's smiling
face, which he, Govinda, in this very same moment touched with his lips.
And, Govinda saw it like this, this smile of the mask, this smile of
oneness above the flowing forms, this smile of simultaneousness above
the thousand births and deaths, this smile of Siddhartha was precisely
the same, was precisely of the same kind as the quiet, delicate,
impenetrable, perhaps benevolent, perhaps mocking, wise, thousand-fold
smile of Gotama, the Buddha, as he had seen it himself with great
respect a hundred times. Like this, Govinda knew, the perfected ones
are smiling.

Not knowing any more whether time existed, whether the vision had lasted
a second or a hundred years, not knowing any more whether there existed
a Siddhartha, a Gotama, a me and a you, feeling in his innermost self
as if he had been wounded by a divine arrow, the injury of which tasted
sweet, being enchanted and dissolved in his innermost self, Govinda
still stood for a little while bent over Siddhartha's quiet face, which
he had just kissed, which had just been the scene of all manifestations,
all transformations, all existence. The face was unchanged, after under
its surface the depth of the thousandfoldness had closed up again, he
smiled silently, smiled quietly and softly, perhaps very benevolently,
perhaps very mockingly, precisely as he used to smile, the exalted one.

Deeply, Govinda bowed; tears, he knew nothing of, ran down his old face;
like a fire burnt the feeling of the most intimate love, the humblest
veneration in his heart. Deeply, he bowed, touching the ground, before
him who was sitting motionlessly, whose smile reminded him of everything
he had ever loved in his life, what had ever been valuable and holy to
him in his life.
 

Chikombo

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,420
Reaction score
1,327
William Lane Craig vs Stephen Law

lol I remember watching that thing. I can't believe how the atheist camps proclaimed Harris' victory so loudly when literally his every point got blown to smithereens by Craig. In the end he went completely off-topic with his ramblings. Seriously, I find this one of the biggest victories for Craig.



lol how about every WLC debate aside the one with Kagan?

Could somone like summarize what they said cus I don't have time to watch the entire debates and I seriously doubt that atheism was the loser.
 
Top