[VS] Super 5 Vs their Masters

[Lawlermelon]

:lol lovely ain't it and i can change it to green anytime i want.

And by lil guy if you mean in terms of rep points

lol you salty af, who are you again? oh, a nobody.

 

[Haizaki]

Masters take it in my opinion but undoubtedly good arguments from both FT and KG. Though couple question I have but want answers from reasonable people only

- Hiashi's large scale Vacuum Palm can push back FRS? Correct? Isn't this an effective counter if he can send it back?

- Orochimaru's ability to move underneath without being seen is another possibility in this battle and like KidGamer said earlier on "Frog Call might help, but it only paralyzes the people inside, not the Susanoo itself." Won't this give Orochimaru and opening to effectively do damage to them while they're paralyzed in a similar way to how Naruto did against the Summons that were paralyzed?

- Amaterasu isn't only countered by Gai. I see the whole team having a counter with the likes of Hiashi around who can see chakra build up as shown in the Deidara fight with Team 7. Obito sensed the build up focus in Sasuke's left eye enabling him to counter. The Byakugan would see this and release the surrounding shield that would prevent him from being hit. Also, one blow body is another counter if he gets touched. Hiashi can even warn the others once he sees the build up(Even for a Genjutsu as shown when Ao saw Danzo was putting Mifune in a Genjutsu), which would be a plus to them as Orochimaru has his own counter. Tsunade might be able to counter considering how she countered Madara's technique here

You must be registered for see links

- If Sasuke's Susano'o drops to anything below V4, it's over for their team. Agreed?

 

[Forbidden Technique]

The thing is that it was Begging of Shippuden Neji who fought Kisame this is War Arc Neji and second is that Hiashi used two hand to push Juubi's tail back and don't know why,but Neji dont know why,but he never used Air palm with two hands... and ya Hinata with Kyuubi cloak have same feat as Hiashi with one hand air palm... i think if Neji perform air palm with two hands he will have same feat as Hiashi, maybe lil weaker it will be,but still close..

The only time we saw Neji involved with a two handed Air Palm, was when it was with Hinata [

You must be registered for see links

], and we didn't get to see the damage output. Secondly, we know for a fact that Hiashi's Rotation is stronger than Neji's, based on the fact that the Juubi's attacked penetrated throug Neji's but not Hiashi's [

You must be registered for see links

]. Lastly, the crater Hiashi made with his Rotation was bigger than Neji's [

You must be registered for see links

].

So we have no reason to believe that War-Arc Neji is on Hiashi's level. Certainly not his chakra level.

 

[Kakashistomps]

The only time we saw Neji involved with a two handed Air Palm, was when it was with Hinata [

You must be registered for see links

], and we didn't get to see the damage output. Secondly, we know for a fact that Hiashi's Rotation is stronger than Neji's, based on the fact that the Juubi's attacked penetrated throug Neji's but not Hiashi's [

You must be registered for see links

]. Lastly, the crater Hiashi made with his Rotation was bigger than Neji's [

You must be registered for see links

].

So we have no reason to believe that War-Arc Neji is on Hiashi's level. Certainly not his chakra level.

I wasnt Neji's 2 handed air palm it was Hinata's and Neji one handed one... i know that Neji wasnt at Hiashi's lvl but difference wasnt very big

 

[Forbidden Technique]

I wasnt Neji's 2 handed air palm it was Hinata's and Neji one handed one... i know that Neji wasnt at Hiashi's lvl but difference wasnt very big

The point was if the only time we see Neji using Air Wall Palm was with someone else, chances are he can't use it efficiently on his own yet. The difference in crater size is pretty big, which hints that Neji's chakra output is nowhere near Hiashi's. Thus, neither are his Air Palms.

 

[BLAZE]

lol you salty af, who are you again? oh, a nobody.

i am the guy who is gonna make that bar red :lol

 

[Zexion~]

Thanks for aiding my point. The clouds in the scan he posted formed somewhere else, and migrated over. There is no moisture in the air for Kirin to be prepped, and a few clouds isn't cutting it.

Also, just stop commenting on Air Palms. You, as usual, don't know what you're talking about. Neji's best feat alone is knocking away Kisame, Hiashi's best feat alone is knocking away a Jubi's tail. Both being boosted results in Hiashi's still shitting on Neji's.

Clouds themselves contain moisture FT you can't be serious the heat from the Amertarasu would obviously draw in more clouds.....

You must be registered for see images

.-. there are plenty of clouds. I'm honestly in shock you don't know what dry lightning is also acting like lightning isn't present in a desert :lol


Anyways no, why are you comparing two different jutsu's here? Air Palm =/= Air Wall Palm, Neji utilized the jutsu with Hinata but with a boost from Sakura I see no reason why he couldn't do it on his own.

 

[KidGamer65]

Masters take it in my opinion but undoubtedly good arguments from both FT and KG. Though couple question I have but want answers from reasonable people only

- Hiashi's large scale Vacuum Palm can push back FRS? Correct? Isn't this an effective counter if he can send it back?

- Orochimaru's ability to move underneath without being seen is another possibility in this battle and like KidGamer said earlier on "Frog Call might help, but it only paralyzes the people inside, not the Susanoo itself." Won't this give Orochimaru and opening to effectively do damage to them while they're paralyzed in a similar way to how Naruto did against the Summons that were paralyzed?

- Amaterasu isn't only countered by Gai. I see the whole team having a counter with the likes of Hiashi around who can see chakra build up as shown in the Deidara fight with Team 7. Obito sensed the build up focus in Sasuke's left eye enabling him to counter. The Byakugan would see this and release the surrounding shield that would prevent him from being hit. Also, one blow body is another counter if he gets touched. Hiashi can even warn the others once he sees the build up(Even for a Genjutsu as shown when Ao saw Danzo was putting Mifune in a Genjutsu), which would be a plus to them as Orochimaru has his own counter. Tsunade might be able to counter considering how she countered Madara's technique here

You must be registered for see links

- If Sasuke's Susano'o drops to anything below V4, it's over for their team. Agreed?

-Yes, if FRS and Vacuum Palm clash FRS would be pushed away.

-Addressed this in my post to FT.

-Forgot about Hiashi's Body Blow, forgot about Oro's Oral Rebirth but he was never a viable target anyway. Tsunade has no counter though. Smacking away a projectile fireball and smacking away a flame that spawns on you are two completely different things, and the latter is impossible.

Key words being more powerful chakra. Sakura is simply supplying Sasuke with more ordinary chakra, not more high quality Kurama-esque chakra. Not exactly comparable. You have a decent point with Madara's Susano'o, but again, that is Madara applying more of his distinct higher quality chakra into Susano'o. Also, transferring chakra doesn't change it's quality into whoever it's being transferred to, it remains the same and keeps the same chakra signature [

You must be registered for see links

]. So let's please not state that Sakura's chakra can do the very same as Kurama and Madara's chakra, because that's what being argued here.

Assuming she somehow could transcend Sasuke's Susano'o, it wouldn't be for long, seeing how she was struggling to amp Obito for his Kamui. Both of which are MS techniques, which is where I'm drawing the comparison.

I literally just addressed this.

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/608/17

You must be registered for see links

Both the same exact level of Susanoo, yet one is obviously much stronger than the other one and the only thing that differs between them is size, thus the amount of chakra poured into said jutsu.

Mentioning Kurama as a retort is irrelevant because no one said Sakura is doing the same exact thing Kurama's chakra did to Naruto and the whole point of the part I requoted was to show said differentiation.. V3 Susanoo of Madara: Same stage, different size, different chakra, different power. V4 Susanoo for Sasuke: Same Stage, bigger size due to Sakura adding her chakra, thus more power.

And your Obito comparison doesn't hold because Obito needed a tremendous amount of chakra to travel through/look through Kaguya's dimensions. No such chakra is needed here for Sasuke to maintain Susanoo. So no, you are wrong here.

Lol, sand. You don't know what a desert is.



Another definition: a dry, barren area of land, especially one covered with sand, that is characteristically desolate, waterless, and without vegetation. Sand is not what qualifies a desert being a desert. So I'll say it again, by definition, the fight is located in a desert. Where there is little to no moisture. And you completely missed the point. You showing me scans of clouds in the sky doesn't mean the clouds were formed in that area, because clouds migrate. And Kirin doesn't work from the pre-existing clouds in the sky anyways. Sasuke has to create them by first heating up the atmosphere. Sasuke heating up an already naturally hot atmosphere get's him absolutely no where, when there is no moisture in the air. In order for your plan to work, the team would have to pull out a massive Suiton technique out of there back pocket and evaporate it. It's not happening.

Lmao, sure. We'll say that there's no moisture in the air to form new clouds, doesn't change the fact that there are still existing clouds and Sasuke's Katon and Amaterasu will cause them to turn into thunder clouds then Sasuke uses Kirin, it not being as large as it was against Itachi is an irrelevant point to bother mentioning as not a single person on this team has any kind of special durability like Itachi and Susanoo.

Bold makes zero sense. Kirin works by manipulating lightning in the sky. Nothing more and nothing less. Lightning clouds need to be created because usually when Sasuke fights there are no sign of clouds that'd let him utilize the jutsu. If clouds are already there all he needs to do is make the clouds generate electricity, which is done by heating up the air some more as the cloud gets larger the more air continues to rise, part of it freezes and a bunch of stuff inside collides and all that good stuff, then it becomes a thunder cloud and then Sasuke sends Gai and his pals straight to hell.

And Zex's post mentions dry lightning, lightning storms do happen in deserts.

Orochimaru knowing all about it will do everything in his power to disrupt the prep, and make it harder on Sasuke to pull off. Such means can be attacking with Clones equipped with Kusanagi and snake summons from underneath Susano'o, and attempting to disrupt Sasuke's raiton connection from the outside. Not to mention Gai can knock Susano'o around with Hirudora, as with everything else I previously mentioned. It's not going to be as simple as Sasuke camping in Susano'o while the masters helplessly watch. Not relevant though, since Kirin can't be used here.

With what? The only way they are disrupting Sasuke's connection with the clouds is by taking Sasuke himself out, which they can't do. Gai can't knock around a super sized V4 Susanoo with Hirudora. So the only people who are doing a thing to Susanoo and Sasuke are Oro and Hiashi, and then that brings me to this underground Susanoo attack argument.

-We've already seen that the user can levitate in his Susanoo, shown by Sasuke vs. Danzo and by Madara vs. Hashirama (v4) and the Gokage (V3).

-We've already seen that the user of Susanoo can make the bottom solid if he wants to.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Ordinary Orochimaru was able to easily summon 3 Roshomon gates. Hashirama DNA amped Zetsu Orochimaru should easily be able to summon at least 5 gates. Also, whatever SM Naruto is throwing at it, would have to first clash it's way through Hiashi's amped Air Palms. Needless to say, it's not getting all the way through.

Bold is based on nothing, or rather almost nothing. All Hashirama's DNA does is boost Orochimaru's chakra reserves by an unspecified amount. Not proof he'll go from summoning 3 Rashomon to 5. :lol @ "at least". Come on now. Naruto can attack from multiple angles since he has clones while Hiashi can't, and he can throw multiple FRS, so that if Hiashi deflects one the follow up FRS right behind it destroys Rashomon, and if Hiashi is deflecting FRS w/ his air palms that means him and Tsunade aren't behind the gates, thus Sasuke using Amaterasu lights either Tsunade or Hiashi up, most likely Hiashi since Tsunade will probably be behind him, and during the interval where he stops his jutsu to blow off Amaterasu, FRS obliterates the gates and who ever is behind it.

I don't have any doubt that they can survive/counter these techniques. I'm arguing that all these collective attacks will buy enough time to prep Gama Rinsho, because it's simply too much. Orochimaru attacking with clones, spores, and snakes underneath Susano'o will require the team to devote their attention to him. They're not by any means just shrugging off Zetsu Orochimaru's efforts. While they're momentarily focused on removing the spores, Orochimaru can capatilize and fill Susano'o inside with 10,000 snakes equipped with Kusanagi; or attack with his white snake form, and let the poison knock them out, etc,. Gai can knock Susano'o around with Hirudora, causing it to awkwardly land on it's side or back; where SM Jiraiya can use Yomi Numa on it; while Tsunade and Hiashi are safely hiding behind the Roshomon gates, prepared to use amped Air Palms whenever needed.

The team? The entire team doesn't need to devote their attention to blocking Orochimaru's attacks. First of all, we've already seen in canon that the user can levitate in Susanoo and create a bottom for their Susanoo, so Orochimaru isn't infiltrating anywhere, and even if he were to do so there would be more than enough distance between Team 7 and the bottom of the Susanoo to render his assault useless.

-He's not filling Susanoo up with 10,000 snakes. As if they would let him do that even if the bottom of Susanoo was left exposed. He'd have to emerge via Mayfly and then release the snakes from his mouth, and Naruto will sense him the moment he exposes even a part of himself, then him or Sasuke counter accordingly. Whether it be with a larger sized Rasengan or via Enton. Same goes for if he tries to invade with clones, though I'm not sure if you are talking about weak spore clones or shadow clones.

-It only takes Sasuke alone to remove said spores, doesn't take the attention of all 3 teammates so if his goal is to divide their attention here he's failing hard. :lol Most of your strategies only require a single member of the team to act to counter them.

And white snake is probably the worst strategy you could come up with here. Not only will he not fit in Susanoo properly in that form, (he can use his downsized form that he showed when he hopped to Zetsu's body, but Enton kills him off in a heartbeat if he tries that), once that's done he's exposed himself. If he's defeated there it's over for Orochimaru and he can't use any Ninjutsu while in his White Snake form. Poison only comes out when his blood is exposed to the atmosphere, any kind of Amaterasu flame would kill him without drawing blood, meanwhile Naruto is free to do whatever.

And no, if Hiashi and Tsunade are hiding behind Rashomon then they'll have to circle around it in order to fire Air Palms at Team 7 and doing that leaves them wide open for attacks like FRS, Enton FRS, Susanoo Arrow and Amaterasu that they can't dodge. Air Palm would clash with one wave of attack and the next wave would hit them or they can attack Rashomon and the two who have left the defense at the same time, thus Hiashi can only save himself, but not the gates.

It's too much, the students are stuck within Susano'o, which is nothing but a large target. The two characters on the battlefield they can't hit, because Gai is too fast, and Orochimaru is fighting with Mayfly. The other ones are protected behind Roshomon gates, equipped with the best medic in the manga, and someone who can seal Amaterasu away. The Masters DESTROY them.

A large target that they literally can't do nothing to. The only strategy worth using here is Orochimaru attacking them from under. Gai is too fast, but he can't do jack to Susanoo, nothing at all. Orochimaru fighting with Mayfly doesn't mean he can't or won't be hit, because if he wants to attack he'll need to expose himself.

And lol did you really just mention the bold? Yeah, Jiraiya can seal Amaterasu away, if his opposition were to sit and let him paint on a scroll and then make a handsign or two to seal said flame away.

Team 7 still wins.

 

[Lawlermelon]

Students won the thread. GG masters, you lose.

 

[Haizaki]

-Yes, if FRS and Vacuum Palm clash FRS would be pushed away.

Which means it can be used as a viable counter if this is thrown at them.

-We've already seen that the user can levitate in his Susanoo, shown by Sasuke vs. Danzo and by Madara vs. Hashirama (v4) and the Gokage (V3).

-We've already seen that the user of Susanoo can make the bottom solid if he wants to.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

- Being able to levitate won't save him from Orochimaru being able to extend his neck with Kusanagi with surprise attacks similar to this

You must be registered for see links

especially if he's paralyzed along with the others.

- Sasuke, the user for sure can levitate but that doesn't mean the others to would be able to levitate in the V3 or V4 leaving them open still.

- That may not be him making the below solid. That maybe be the aura or the fact that it only becomes solid if it's carried above ground level due to it not being able to form like you've shown in that scan while it's on ground level. Reason I'm saying so "In this case":

You must be registered for see images

This seems to be a strong confirmation that when he's on ground level, he's left opened from beneath.

-Forgot about Hiashi's Body Blow, forgot about Oro's Oral Rebirth but he was never a viable target anyway. Tsunade has no counter though. Smacking away a projectile fireball and smacking away a flame that spawns on you are two completely different things, and the latter is impossible.

Ok.

 

[Lawlermelon]

- Sasuke, the user for sure can levitate but that doesn't mean the others to would be able to levitate in the V3 or V4 leaving them open still.

sorry but youre wrong. go back to when kakashi took sakura into his Susanno and she levitated or when Sasuke took Juugo into his and he levitated. If youre going to make things up without actually knowing facts then you shouldnt post nonsense.

PS: students always win.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Eh, I mean he doesn't die but he's not getting past Susano'o and both Sasuke and Naruto have enough to take him down enough times so he cant use Oral Regeneration.

Lol merged with ground and kansanji sneak attacks how is that not effective against a non full body Susanno

 

[KidGamer65]

Which means it can be used as a viable counter if this is thrown at them.




- Being able to levitate won't save him from Orochimaru being able to extend his neck with Kusanagi with surprise attacks similar to this

You must be registered for see links

especially if he's paralyzed along with the others.

- Sasuke, the user for sure can levitate but that doesn't mean the others to would be able to levitate in the V3 or V4 leaving them open still.

- That may not be him making the below solid. That maybe be the aura or the fact that it only becomes solid if it's carried above ground level due to it not being able to form like you've shown in that scan while it's on ground level. Reason I'm saying so "In this case":

You must be registered for see images

This seems to be a strong confirmation that when he's on ground level, he's left opened from beneath.





Ok.

No, but it gives them more time to counter assuming they werent paralyzed. Not sure how frog call is ever happening with FTs strategy in place or happening at all. They need to get relatively close to use Frog Call,, starting distance is 30 ir 50m, cant remember. Amaterasu or arrows would hit Jiraiya before then.

Lawlermelon addressed this point, and the subsequent post doesnt make sense. Theres no reason why being on the ground would prevent Susanoo from having a botton. All you can argue is that the bottom wont be as thick as the rest due to it being on the ground with little space being shown between the users feet.

Gaaras statment refers to the fact that attacks on the outer shell are useless, not that all Susanoo have their bottoms exposed, especially since Gaara had only seen up to V2 at that point.

 

[Haizaki]

No, but it gives them more time to counter assuming they werent paralyzed. Not sure how frog call is ever happening with FTs strategy in place or happening at all. They need to get relatively close to use Frog Call,, starting distance is 30 ir 50m, cant remember. Amaterasu or arrows would hit Jiraiya before then.

Yeah that's true. Why can't frog call happen? We'll never see the arrow because it's the weapon of his V3. His V4 weapon is entirely different as we've seen. If he uses his V3, Hirudora obliterates so we'll never see the arrow in this case. Amaterasu? Obito sensed Sasuke focusing it to his left eye and Jman can definitely sense it as well. Hiashi as well can see the build up and warn them...all Jman has to do is create a clone to block his LOS which shouldn't be hard as he can do so before it hits.

Another thing they can do is ride within Orochimaru and use Frog call from a closer distance while behind considering the other opponents they'll need to focus on. Considering he has clones that can easily distract them while they stay within Susano'o. Gai's speed also enables them ride on him to get behind them for frog call. Even if they leave Jman shoulder, all he needs to do is create clones that would go back to him enabling him to have access to the Senjutsu chakra once he dispels a clone that has access to it.

Lawlermelon addressed this point, and the subsequent post doesnt make sense. Theres no reason why being on the ground would prevent Susanoo from having a botton. All you can argue is that the bottom wont be as thick as the rest due to it being on the ground with little space being shown between the users feet.

Agreed. Didn't consider the legged versions.

Oh as for the being on ground point, my reason for that was the fact that it didn't make any sense that Madara before pulling out Susano'o encountered the sand attacks but yet decided not to create one below. It won't make sense for him to use the defense at the bottom when he's not standing on the ground(Against Hiruodora) but then not use the defense at the bottom while standing on the ground. Looking closely at the scan you showed, the shape of the bottom defense here

You must be registered for see links

seems to be one that can't be used to stand on the ground properly.

@bold, well I think the defense would most likely be the same

Gaaras statment refers to the fact that attacks on the outer shell are useless, not that all Susanoo have their bottoms exposed, especially since Gaara had only seen up to V2 at that point.

Yeah, but the relevant individuals can all counter Amaterasu here. Arrow won't come out because it's a V3 weapon and if the V3 comes out, Hirudora destroys it. If they get paralyzed, I'm not sure if Sakura would continue to supply Sasuke with chakra and once it drops to a lower version, that's another counter. It also won't be wise to throw attacks at the Masters since Hiashi's large scale Vacuum wall can send them back. Gama Rinsho can easily be prepared while on the shoulder of whoever in this battle. That's another way of victory if they prepare it from the start.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yeah that's true. Why can't frog call happen? We'll never see the arrow because it's the weapon of his V3. His V4 weapon is entirely different as we've seen. If he uses his V3, Hirudora obliterates so we'll never see the arrow in this case. Amaterasu? Obito sensed Sasuke focusing it to his left eye and Jman can definitely sense it as well. Hiashi as well can see the build up and warn them...all Jman has to do is create a clone to block his LOS which shouldn't be hard as he can do so before it hits.

V4 and V3 have shown to wield each others weapons.

-Sasuke's V4 against the Zetsu Platoon had a bow and arrow.
-Sasuke's V4 against Kakashi had an Enton Orb and a shield.
-Sasuke's V3 against Juubito had a sword, AND a bow and arrow.

So it's likely Sasuke would be able to pull out a bow and arrow here, and even if he couldn't, Hirudora can only obliterate a regular V3, not one super sized by Sakura's Byakugo chakra. If Jiraiya is charging to close the distance then Hiashi isn't going to have time to see Amaterasu's build up, warn Jiraiya and leave enough time for Jiraiya himself to be able to block it with a clone, and even it gets blocked with a clone, Amaterasu continues to spawn as long as the user is focusing on that point. Jiraiya isn't fast enough to escape Sasuke's vision so once that clone poofs he gets hit.

Another thing they can do is ride within Orochimaru and use Frog call from a closer distance while behind considering the other opponents they'll need to focus on. Considering he has clones that can easily distract them while they stay within Susano'o. Gai's speed also enables them ride on him to get behind them for frog call. Even if they leave Jman shoulder, all he needs to do is create clones that would go back to him enabling him to have access to the Senjutsu chakra once he dispels a clone that has access to it.

Within? What form will Oro be in? Because the only form where he could carry Jiraiya would be Eight Branches, and that's just asking for a death sentence. Hiashi and Tsunade and Gai can't damage Susanoo, so Sasuke and Naruto have no reason to ignore Orochimaru and Jiraiya approaching them from the back. Eight Branches is also a huge target that was canonically fodderized by Itachi's Susanoo, Sasuke's buffed Susanoo w/ Enton makes short work of it even from a distance. So that doesn't work.

Though them riding on Gai works, but Jiraiya would lose Sage Mode, and the creating clones thing only works when you have clones gathering Senjutsu in the first place as Naruto had during the pain arc, Jiraiya has no such luxury here.

But even if Frog Call ends up happening, they can't access Sasuke and team from the bottom of Susanoo.

Agreed. Didn't consider the legged versions.

Oh as for the being on ground point, my reason for that was the fact that it didn't make any sense that Madara before pulling out Susano'o encountered the sand attacks but yet decided not to create one below. It won't make sense for him to use the defense at the bottom when he's not standing on the ground(Against Hiruodora) but then not use the defense at the bottom while standing on the ground. Looking closely at the scan you showed, the shape of the bottom defense here

You must be registered for see links

seems to be one that can't be used to stand on the ground properly.

@bold, well I think the defense would most likely be the same

@bold: But I could use that same exact reasoning and say "Madara can't create a lower body to protect from underground attacks because he chose not to make one to protect from the sand attacks even after seeing them", but as the Manga as shown, Madara has shown a lower body to his Susanoo. So that logic is faulty.

And how does it being curved mean it can't stand on the ground properly? If anything Madara would just make it flat so that it would rest on the ground properly.

Yeah, but the relevant individuals can all counter Amaterasu here. Arrow won't come out because it's a V3 weapon and if the V3 comes out, Hirudora destroys it. If they get paralyzed, I'm not sure if Sakura would continue to supply Sasuke with chakra and once it drops to a lower version, that's another counter. It also won't be wise to throw attacks at the Masters since Hiashi's large scale Vacuum wall can send them back. Gama Rinsho can easily be prepared while on the shoulder of whoever in this battle. That's another way of victory if they prepare it from the start.

-Jiraiya can't on his own. He can only count one shot.
-Hirudora caps out at a regular V3, so a super sized V3 survives it, but V4 can likely pull out the bow and arrow regardless.
-Underlined doesn't make sense. If anything the load on her is lightened since Sasuke will be spending less chakra, thus she won't have to spend as much chakra to buff him.
-Hiashi can send one attack back at a time, Naruto and Sasuke can send multiple attacks his way. If they fire consecutively then the first attack is deflected but the next one hits, especially if it's coming from Sasuke since his attacks are faster than Naruto's by a good amount.

Gama Rinsho? :lol Yeah, that's definitely never happening. Not in this lifetime anyway. By the time Gama Rinsho is set up, Kirin is set up and then Sasuke kills everyone on the opposing side.

 

[Draegod]

V4 and V3 have shown to wield each others weapons.

-Sasuke's V4 against the Zetsu Platoon had a bow and arrow.
-Sasuke's V4 against Kakashi had an Enton Orb and a shield.
-Sasuke's V3 against Juubito had a sword, AND a bow and arrow.

EMS and or Kyubi chakra feats that MS sasuke doesnt even compare in. But if you guys are talking about EMS then nevermind. When its night and day difference between EMS and MS benifits.

 

[Unorthodox]

Students win this shit these fools arguing for masters smh.

 

[KidGamer65]

EMS and or Kyubi chakra feats that MS sasuke doesnt even compare in. But if you guys are talking about EMS then nevermind. When its night and day difference between EMS and MS benifits.

Kurama's chakra has nothing do with weaponry, only size and power. EMS is possible, but the main highlights are PS, different armor for V4, and more stamina/no strain.

 

[EZQ]

I wasnt Neji's 2 handed air palm it was Hinata's and Neji one handed one... i know that Neji wasnt at Hiashi's lvl but difference wasnt very big

No man, Hiashi >>> war arc Neji.

If neji was kept alive then he surely would've surpassed him

 

[Forbidden Technique]

I literally just addressed this.


Mentioning Kurama as a retort is irrelevant because no one said Sakura is doing the same exact thing Kurama's chakra did to Naruto and the whole point of the part I requoted was to show said differentiation.. V3 Susanoo of Madara: Same stage, different size, different chakra, different power. V4 Susanoo for Sasuke: Same Stage, bigger size due to Sakura adding her chakra, thus more power.

And your Obito comparison doesn't hold because Obito needed a tremendous amount of chakra to travel through/look through Kaguya's dimensions. No such chakra is needed here for Sasuke to maintain Susanoo. So no, you are wrong here.

You didn't refute anything. I understood your point. I'm saying Sakura's chakra boost is not comparable. You're taking examples from Madara adding more of his own high quality chakra into his own Susano'o to make it stronger, and saying Sakura could do the same thing. Let's pretend Sakura can use Susano'o. Assuming it's the same stage and chakra quantity, which Susano'o would be stronger based on chakra quality alone? Sakura's Susano'o or Madara's Susano'o? Obviously, the latter. So my point is, Sakura's chakra being attributed to Sasuke's Susano'o will not make it any stronger. If a car requires premium gas, you don't put in regular and expect a better performance. Same logic applies here.

You don't think transcending a V4 Susano'o requires a tremendous amount of chakra...? I didn't say maintain.

Lmao, sure. We'll say that there's no moisture in the air to form new clouds, doesn't change the fact that there are still existing clouds and Sasuke's Katon and Amaterasu will cause them to turn into thunder clouds then Sasuke uses Kirin, it not being as large as it was against Itachi is an irrelevant point to bother mentioning as not a single person on this team has any kind of special durability like Itachi and Susanoo.

Bold makes zero sense. Kirin works by manipulating lightning in the sky. Nothing more and nothing less. Lightning clouds need to be created because usually when Sasuke fights there are no sign of clouds that'd let him utilize the jutsu. If clouds are already there all he needs to do is make the clouds generate electricity, which is done by heating up the air some more as the cloud gets larger the more air continues to rise, part of it freezes and a bunch of stuff inside collides and all that good stuff, then it becomes a thunder cloud and then Sasuke sends Gai and his pals straight to hell.

And Zex's post mentions dry lightning, lightning storms do happen in deserts.

Sasuke applying more heat to an already hot and dry atmosphere to produce thunder clouds is supported by nothing. Turning

You must be registered for see links

(clouds in the bottom right panel) into

You must be registered for see links

(actual thunder clouds) requires a whole lot of moisture in the air for the clouds to build up into that. That is the issue here, and the reason why it won't work.

You must be registered for see images

^To get a better look at what a thunder cloud actually looks like. That is not being formed from the pre-existing clouds by just simply sending up more hot air.

Dry thunderstorms are mostly common in the western U.S., because the appropriate amount of moisture is drawn over by the gulfs. They're only called dry thunderstorms, because the rain it produces evaporates before touching the ground due to the naturally hot atmosphere. They still require moisture, which has to come from somewhere.

Sources:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

With what? The only way they are disrupting Sasuke's connection with the clouds is by taking Sasuke himself out, which they can't do. Gai can't knock around a super sized V4 Susanoo with Hirudora. So the only people who are doing a thing to Susanoo and Sasuke are Oro and Hiashi, and then that brings me to this underground Susanoo attack argument.

-We've already seen that the user can levitate in his Susanoo, shown by Sasuke vs. Danzo and by Madara vs. Hashirama (v4) and the Gokage (V3).

-We've already seen that the user of Susanoo can make the bottom solid if he wants to.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

I do not agree with the notion that Sakura will be transcending a V4 Susano'o, so I still believe that Hirudora will knock V4 Susano'o around. It's explosion should also cause Sasuke to have to re-establish his connection with Kirin. And not that I agree with Kirin being able to be used here, but assuming it is:

Attacking from below the feet allows anyone to bypass Susano'o's real durability. Basically, it's only the shroud that stands in their way. A shroud that has been shown to be easily penetrated through [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. So I see no issue with Zetsu Orochimaru having his way here, regardless if the users inside are levitating.

Bold is based on nothing, or rather almost nothing. All Hashirama's DNA does is boost Orochimaru's chakra reserves by an unspecified amount. Not proof he'll go from summoning 3 Rashomon to 5. :lol @ "at least". Come on now. Naruto can attack from multiple angles since he has clones while Hiashi can't, and he can throw multiple FRS, so that if Hiashi deflects one the follow up FRS right behind it destroys Rashomon, and if Hiashi is deflecting FRS w/ his air palms that means him and Tsunade aren't behind the gates, thus Sasuke using Amaterasu lights either Tsunade or Hiashi up, most likely Hiashi since Tsunade will probably be behind him, and during the interval where he stops his jutsu to blow off Amaterasu, FRS obliterates the gates and who ever is behind it.

What? Orochimaru summoned 3 gates with zero indication of a necessary chakra build up, struggle, or chakra exhaustion. And this was an Orochimaru who had already previously exhausted chakra, and continued to do so even after summoning the 3 gates. Stating that he can summon at least 5 at his full chakra capacity, with the added boost of Hashirama's DNA, not to mention Tsunade if needed, is not an outlandish claim in the slightest bit.

If Naruto is going to be attacking from multiple angles, that means the clones will be leaving it's shelter within Susano'o to only get flattened by 7G within seconds. Why can't Hiashi attack from different angles? He has two hands to use boosted Air Palms, in different directions. They would just have to be individual Air Palms, rather than an Air Wall Palm. I'm imagining both Hiashi and Tsunade being behind a gate. Hiashi only peaking enough of his body out to use Air Palms, when he FIRST see's chakra build-up from Naruto (or Sasuke) to swiftly counter and immediately retreat back behind the gate. I also don't see why couldn't 7G Gai help intercept a FRS just like he did with JJ Madara's truth seeker balls or whatever they're called.

The team? The entire team doesn't need to devote their attention to blocking Orochimaru's attacks. First of all, we've already seen in canon that the user can levitate in Susanoo and create a bottom for their Susanoo, so Orochimaru isn't infiltrating anywhere, and even if he were to do so there would be more than enough distance between Team 7 and the bottom of the Susanoo to render his assault useless.

-He's not filling Susanoo up with 10,000 snakes. As if they would let him do that even if the bottom of Susanoo was left exposed. He'd have to emerge via Mayfly and then release the snakes from his mouth, and Naruto will sense him the moment he exposes even a part of himself, then him or Sasuke counter accordingly. Whether it be with a larger sized Rasengan or via Enton. Same goes for if he tries to invade with clones, though I'm not sure if you are talking about weak spore clones or shadow clones.

-It only takes Sasuke alone to remove said spores, doesn't take the attention of all 3 teammates so if his goal is to divide their attention here he's failing hard. :lol Most of your strategies only require a single member of the team to act to counter them.

And white snake is probably the worst strategy you could come up with here. Not only will he not fit in Susanoo properly in that form, (he can use his downsized form that he showed when he hopped to Zetsu's body, but Enton kills him off in a heartbeat if he tries that), once that's done he's exposed himself. If he's defeated there it's over for Orochimaru and he can't use any Ninjutsu while in his White Snake form. Poison only comes out when his blood is exposed to the atmosphere, any kind of Amaterasu flame would kill him without drawing blood, meanwhile Naruto is free to do whatever.

And no, if Hiashi and Tsunade are hiding behind Rashomon then they'll have to circle around it in order to fire Air Palms at Team 7 and doing that leaves them wide open for attacks like FRS, Enton FRS, Susanoo Arrow and Amaterasu that they can't dodge. Air Palm would clash with one wave of attack and the next wave would hit them or they can attack Rashomon and the two who have left the defense at the same time, thus Hiashi can only save himself, but not the gates.

Sakura is occupied by assisting Sasuke with Susano'o. Naruto you stated is occupied trying to take down the Rashomon Gates. Sasuke is occupied with Susano'o, and his failed attempts to form Kirin in a geographical area that doesn't suit it. Who's going to help counter Zetso Orochimaru? I suppose Lee and Neji, but you have them all levitating inside Susano'o, and I don't recall anything allowing anyone being able to move around freely within Susano'o, besides the user. So they're all still helpless here.

Then Orochimaru can simply summon his strongest unknown boss sized snake (Aoda?), and

You must be registered for see links

, as it comes up from underneath Susano'o. At whatever point Naruto and/or Sasuke defeat it, Orochimaru could have already took the time to safely regurgitate the 10,000 snakes to spew out once the boss summon poofs. The snakes can can also help Orochimaru expose his white snake poison as well. Honestly, don't see how this strategy doesn't work with containing 7G Gai or SM Jiraiya as well.

Sasuke removes spores with Nagashi, then he has to help remove it from Naruto and Sakura. Allowing for easy windows for Zetsu Orochimaru to capitalize on. And I don't see how Orochimaru's White Snake body will be taken out by Enton's slow burning/killing potential straight off the bat.

Hiashi and Tsunade can be at the edge of a Rashomon gate, they don't need to circle around it and fully expose their bodies. Hiashi is gifted with the Byakugan that will allow him to see Naruto/Sasuke's attack before it happens. Remember, they have Orochimaru to worry about. So sending waves of attacks isn't that simply done. Also, a one handed Air Palm boosted by Tsunade's chakra should be able to be accounted for around the same output of strength as Hiashi's original Wall Palm that pushed the Juubi's tail away.

All the while Ma/Pa have been prepping Gama Rinsho from match start....