DRSM Madara vs R-Sasuke vs R-Obito

Holy God

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Madara had to retreat in order to gain the second Rin'negan. If Madara was stronger than Rikudo Sasuke before he became the Juubi's Jin then after becoming a Jin he should have wrecked Sasuke no contest and Naruto alone would not have been able to make up for the difference in power however, the Manga clearly say's differently.

The translation was referring to Madara leaving to cast Infnite Tsukuyomi though, not for his Rinnegan, so I don't see how it helps your notion. Putting that aside, Naruto and Sasuke together carry the same powers as Madara, so why wouldn't Naruto be able to make up for the difference in power?
 

Waltz

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The translation was referring to Madara leaving to cast Infnite Tsukuyomi though, not for his Rinnegan, so I don't see how it helps your notion. Putting that aside, Naruto and Sasuke together carry the same powers as Madara, so why wouldn't Naruto be able to make up for the difference in power?


The translation makes mention of Madara retreating, which you amended with a more accurate translation. I specifically highlighted particular segments of the text to establish that he was being pressured, not that he was inferior, weaker or couldn't pressure the duo in return. I agree that Naruto and Sasuke carry the same powers as Madara however my issue is with TheSages456 claiming that Madara's powers were greater than Sasuke's prior to becoming Jinchuriki.
 

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No, it's actually the opposite. His Limbo fighting on par with Naruto's clones means that he had taijutsu at least equivalent to them. There's also the fact that Naruto had once failed to react to Limbo at all while staring right at it.

Naruto never failed to react to limbo he just could only sense it and did not know what it was, and even if this statement was true it would mean nothing as he fought triple rinnegan Madara's Limbo without any problem. Once again this is triple rinnegan JJ Madara he stomps out his non JJ self so your points are invalid.

I doubt Naruto and Sasuke were inferior by much if at all, especially since Naruto wasn't using his full Six Paths Sage Mode. Momoshiki was shown only able to handle one at a time though, so it's not as impressive as you speak.

Your a special kind of dumb when deny manga pages boy i tell ya. You haven no point considering Adult > Teen in the ninja world especially when we're talking about the same character, Naruto was using his full power nothing denies that he was not and even still Sasuke did not miss a step in his grown yet Momo reacted and smacked Sasuke right after ameno like it was nothing. They attack him at the same time he held both of the hands and naruto wrapped his body around his arm while Sasuke attacked. But your grasping at straws now so lets stop it right there.

Sasuke's chakra being low does not effect his speed either however, and it really only had an effect on his ocular prowess, so that's irrelevant. Saying Madara was blitzed when he thought a full sentence while looking at Sasuke is funny though. You'll also notice that people who get blitzed usually have a "!" notification, while Madara was seemingly laughing and knew he was coming.

Sasuke chakra was low which effective his overall battle productivity your logic is shit when we've seen him at full chakra and fighting (Kinshiki/Momoshiki) so your point is moot, having low chakra effects more than their visual jutsu, Madara fans favorite line is he was laughing yada yada no Madara could not physically move to dodge so he was blitz simple as that and even if he was not "blitz" Madara had a head start and this Madara physical speed and reaction >>>>>> The one being used in this thread so my point still remains.



Not really. Besides, Madara only showed us indirect hits while Sasuke was flying towards and slicing the meteors.


Sasuke cut chucks the size of Mountain ranges >>>>>>> Anything Madara has did and his output power.
 

ARGUS

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Sasuke beats Madara. Obito is non factor
 

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Naruto never failed to react to limbo he just could only sense it and did not know what it was, and even if this statement was true it would mean nothing as he fought triple rinnegan Madara's Limbo without any problem. Once again this is triple rinnegan JJ Madara he stomps out his non JJ self so your points are invalid.
Naruto was staring right at Limbo and failed to react to it. It doesn't matter if he knew what is was since he could sense it directly in front of him. You're the one that brought up him having to use Limbo as some sort of point for him not being able to fight equally.


Your a special kind of dumb when deny manga pages boy i tell ya. You haven no point considering Adult > Teen in the ninja world especially when we're talking about the same character, Naruto was using his full power nothing denies that he was not and even still Sasuke did not miss a step in his grown yet Momo reacted and smacked Sasuke right after ameno like it was nothing. They attack him at the same time he held both of the hands and naruto wrapped his body around his arm while Sasuke attacked. But your grasping at straws now so lets stop it right there.

Naruto and Sasuke improving in speed and taijutsu by much is highly unlikely, especially since one lost an arm and the other is admittedly rusty. Naruto had no Truth-Seeking Spheres or the other Tailed Beast chakra unlike before. It's already been shown that Momoshiki could only handle one at a time, the first hit meaning nothing when the duo did the same thing. When the other came he couldn't handle it and that's undeniable.



Sasuke chakra was low which effective his overall battle productivity your logic is shit when we've seen him at full chakra and fighting (Kinshiki/Momoshiki) so your point is moot, having low chakra effects more than their visual jutsu, Madara fans favorite line is he was laughing yada yada no Madara could not physically move to dodge so he was blitz simple as that and even if he was not "blitz" Madara had a head start and this Madara physical speed and reaction >>>>>> The one being used in this thread so my point still remains.

Not liking my logic does not mean yours is correct. Sasuke's physical prowess is not going to suffer from a lack of chakra and that's that. It simply means the Mangekyou Sharingan can be compared to the Byakugan/Rinnegan. Madara was indeed laughing and knew he was coming, that's factual. He could have countered without moving or turning around, and that's also factual. It should also be known that Madara indeed stopped after getting the Sharingan, as there is quite the obvious difference between his standing pose and his flying. If you can't see that, look at the anime. Once again, you brought up this point.

Sasuke cut chucks the size of Mountain ranges >>>>>>> Anything Madara has did and his output power.

I see you're comparing Sasuke's direct slash to Madara's indirect. Either way, we've been shown that the destruction of Madara's meteors that Naruto and Sasuke didn't hit only ranged around two mountains of length, which Madara has been shown to do without a direct hit.
 

TheSages456

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Timelines can be used for statements written in present tense as long as the narrative is in past tense, which it is because the Context is during the time him and Hashirama were called legendary shinobi. Everything in that portion of the Article happened in the past. Madara cannot currently be the strongest Uchiha because he is dead .You're seriously saying the article doesn't talk exclusive of past or present when the Article on a whole goes through occurrences in Madara's life from his past as a child to the present along with visual representation through the various stages?

Sages, why does it need to say "In his Era" when the passage already starts out in the context of being in his era, that is, when Madara and Hashirama together were called Legendary shinobi. Is cannot be = Right now because right now Madara is Dead.

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What you're saying, for example is that in the above scans ^ particular time in the Manga that a Dead Madara was stronger than a living Sasuke.What you're also saying is that Madara was the Strongest Uchiha even before or the very moment he was born and you're also saying that he is stronger than the first Uchiha because according to your logic, we must in every single scenario, regardless of the timeline, consider Madara to be the strongest Uchiha and none of that makes any logical sense whatsoever.

The entry referencing certain past events does not put the entire narrative in past tense, especially when it goes out of it's way to use the language for specific events and a completely different form of language for others.

The entry without fail makes a complete distinction between past and present. The databook makes the present tense statement that Madara is the strongest Uchiha, therefore it is not saying that a corpse is the strongest Uchiha. This is literally just you trying to find loopholes at this point.
It is referring to the Madara that is blatantly shown in the images surrounding the text.

My argument absolutely does not imply the bold. My argument dictates that Madara is the strongest Uchiha in the clan as is stated and the entry talks about what makes him the strongest in the next sentence. Perfect Susano'o. That in no way implies that Madara was the strongest Uchiha before he was born. Indra wasn't an Uchiha.

The section that you are referring to is completely separate from the entry that is being discussed here. The entry that talks exclusively about Madara's past and shows him growing up from child to adult uses past tense language exclusively, unlike the 1st article in Madara's entry which is just hyping up his power.


Bruh. How can you say Adult Sasuke should have theoretically surpassed Madara according to Orochimaru when you just said that Madara is the strongest Uchiha and Is=Right now,yet Right now the Manga is at the timeline of Adult Sasuke.
Right now=The timeline specified by the databook. It does not go up to the end of the manga.

@Blue: When atoms are in a solid state they're condensed together, the density of water's atomic particles actually increases because of this. Similarly, CT and a mountain. The rock gravitated towards CT's core is actually crushed and condensed into a spherical shape due to the gravitational pressure leaving alot less space between particles while the same doesn't happen for a less dense mountain under earths Gravity because the the Gravitational acceleration of CT is stronger than Earth's Gravitational constant, which is why it is able to pull debris from earths surface, against it's gravity to the Core of the CT.

Also, still waiting for those scans....or DB reference denoting, stating or implying that every Perfect Susano'o is the same and a scan showing the force behind Madara's PS slashes going through the very same quantity of material that Sasuke's went through. All you've done is speculate.
No, CT does nothing of the sort considering that after the jutsu is dispelled, the same exact individual rocks that compose CT simply fall down in the state that they originally were in.

The gravity is merely holding a bunch of individual debris together and you're argument is basically claiming that these individual rocks somehow become more durable simply be being physically smashed next to other individual rocks.

So basically what you're saying is that since Madara never slashed through the same quantity of material on-panel, it is impossible for him to do this? That is extremely dishonest when the power of Sasuke's own strikes are verified as only mountain-mountain range level by direct panel.

As long as Madara can replicate the shockwaves that Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o showed at VOTE, which he has, he can replicate Sasuke's feat.

Meaning: Sasuke's heightened power came from his Rin'negan which he got from Hagoromo as a powerup. I'll just agree with your case on the Yin seal as it's rather derailing.

@Bold: See it doesn't make sense for them to be pressuring Madara according to your logic:

If: R-Naruto = R-Sasuke , DRJJ Madara > 1RJJ Madadara >>>> Pre-JJ Madara

And: Pre-JJ Madara > R-Sasuke

Then: 1RJJ Madara >>>>>>>> R-Sasuke and R-Naruto

Therefore:
DRJJ Madara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R-Sasuke and R-Naruto.

There should have been no contest what so ever and it would have been impossible for them to pressure Madara.

Naruto and Sasuke at that point stalemated in their last match Say's that they are roughly equal. It boiled down to the extent that Sasuke would have killed Naruto if it wasn't for Kurama and that Sasuke was not yet adept with his new abilities.
This is the 2nd time that you ignored me saying that Sasuke needed the Biju to match Naruto. They are not equal.
Even together, Naruto and Sasuke do not match his firepower. That is not the reason that they would've beaten him.

Pre-jinchuriki Madara being stronger than Sasuke does nothing to imply that him and Naruto working together would not have been able to simply touch Madara as a Ten Tails' jinchuriki with their seals.
 

Edogawa

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TheSages456 Say's that Pre-JJ Madara > R-Sasuke. However, even after gaining the Juubi, having a Rin'negan then gaining a second Rin'nengan he was still unable to push either Naruto or Sasuke to their limits. Which derails the notion to substantial depths.

Because both sides used their full power, except Sasuke? You would be a clown to think the author would allow a Jubi Jinchuriki use his full power against the main character. The plot restricts characters from using their full potential in order for the main characters to survive. If the opposing side possess greater power than the main character, then he's restricted.
 
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Edogawa

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An excellent opportunity came to fruition…!! Recovering the “Rinnegan” for both of his eyes, Madara unleashes the true power of the Six Paths! Both of his eyes release a sharp brilliance: they certainly feel dauntless and decisive. Madara was still not tired of waiting for the execution of his plan. As if a testament to his willpower, the Shinjyu (/God Tree) budded. 「When someone who possesses the power of the Rinne (/endless cycle of transmigration) approaches the moon, an eye will open for the sake of granting an infinite dream. Then (that wish) will be reflected upon the moon.」…In accordance with the stone tablet of the Uchiha clan, Madara awakened a 「Third Eye」upon his forehead. He negated everything in order to create a world without abominable chakra… Madara wished for 「a true dream」. (His wish) should have been immediately accomplished there…

Even if you were argue on context importance, databook IV makes a notion that only Madara can unleash the true power of Hagoromo, and that is after retrieving both eyes. Portrayal states Sasuke only has half of Hagoromo's power, so by default Double Rinne Madara is more powerful as he's able to unleash the true Six Paths power.

There is no exaggeration. Are we supposed to hold the opinion of a nobody over the author? Never and will never. What ever the author makes a notion on is a factual statement.
 

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The entry referencing certain past events does not put the entire narrative in past tense, especially when it goes out of it's way to use the language for specific events and a completely different form of language for others.

The entry without fail makes a complete distinction between past and present. The databook makes the present tense statement that Madara is the strongest Uchiha, therefore it is not saying that a corpse is the strongest Uchiha. This is literally just you trying to find loopholes at this point.
It is referring to the Madara that is blatantly shown in the images surrounding the text.

My argument absolutely does not imply the bold. My argument dictates that Madara is the strongest Uchiha in the clan as is stated and the entry talks about what makes him the strongest in the next sentence. Perfect Susano'o. That in no way implies that Madara was the strongest Uchiha before he was born. Indra wasn't an Uchiha.

The section that you are referring to is completely separate from the entry that is being discussed here. The entry that talks exclusively about Madara's past and shows him growing up from child to adult uses past tense language exclusively, unlike the 1st article in Madara's entry which is just hyping up his power.

You're the one taking text out of context yet you're saying I'm finding loopholes? The entry doesn't make a distinction between past and present.

Entry said:
Main Body

その力は活殺自在。。。千手柱問として共に「伝説の忍」と称された、うちは一族最強の男、それがマダラだ。 尾獣にすら匹敵する破壊神 ”完成体須佐能乎”を発動させるほど、 うちは一族内でも”写輪眼” の扱いに長けていた。 一族の長として輿望を担うも、 同胞に理解されず里に背を向けたマダラ。その心底に掲げるものは、ただ一つ。。。戦争のない、愛に満ち溢れ る永永無窮の ”無限月読”。忍の歩みし血塗られた修羅の世界は、マダラを看破紅塵の境地に至らしめたのだ。

That strength is the power (to control) life or death…Together with Senju Hashirama, they were called 「Legendary Shinobi」 (happened in the past). The strongest man of the Uchiha Clan is Madara. When invoking the destructive God that is“The Complete-Body Susanoo”, (his strength) is to the extent that it even rivals that of the tailed-beasts. Even amongst the Uchiha clan, he excelled at the usage of the Sharingan (happened in the past). As the head of the clan, he also enjoyed (his reputation and) the trust and confidence (of his people) (happened in the past). Without the understanding of his brethren, Madara turned his back on the village (happened in the past). He was merely advocating for one simple thing, completely from the bottom of his heart…(A world) without war: an eternity of“Infinite Tsukuyomi”, and to be perpetually filled with love . It was for the advancement of shinobi in a world with scenes of blood-stained carnage. Because of Madara’s situation, he became disillusioned with the mundane world (happened in the past).

The narrative of the whole entry is in the past. It begins with past events, explains Madara's power, continues with past events, explains Madara's rational, ends with past events. What part of this do you not understand? Again this is not proof that Pre-JJ Madara is stronger than Rikudo Sasuke because him being the strongest of the Uchiha clan in context of the entry who's narrative is in the past doesn't mean he is the strongest Uchiha in every timeline.




Right now=The timeline specified by the databook. It does not go up to the end of the manga.

Right now= term you've invented to apply to a pretext to get across a point which doesn't mesh from any angle. The Databook said that When Madara and Hashirama were called Legendary shinobi, Madara was the strongest of the Uchiha clan.

No, CT does nothing of the sort considering that after the jutsu is dispelled, the same exact individual rocks that compose CT simply fall down in the state that they originally were in.

The gravity is merely holding a bunch of individual debris together and you're argument is basically claiming that these individual rocks somehow become more durable simply be being physically smashed next to other individual rocks.


So basically what you're saying is that since Madara never slashed through the same quantity of material on-panel, it is impossible for him to do this? That is extremely dishonest when the power of Sasuke's own strikes are verified as only mountain-mountain range level by direct panel.

As long as Madara can replicate the shockwaves that Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o showed at VOTE, which he has, he can replicate Sasuke's feat.


@Bold: It obviously does compress the debris. Did you really think that it gained the composure of a a solid circularly shape of rock by simply holding rocks next to one another or just attracted them hear the core? Nahh...that's not now a gravity core works. The debris would have to be crushed and condensed for it to take such a dense structure.

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Rocks "A" would be crushed by the incoming force of the accelerating rocks "B" and following this pattern as larger, heavier segments of accelerating rocks and debris come smashing into the center. The smaller segments of rocks produce from these collisions would fill the spaces between larger segments of rocks crushing it into a spherical shape.

@Red: Bruh. The burden of proof is on you. I have scans showing Sasuke's sword swipes slicing through rock of that quantity and density, where are your scans of Madara doing the same? You saying sasuke's sword swipes are only mountain range/mountain level even though his swipes went right through the rock of JJ-Madara's CT is assumption and saying that Madara can replicate the same thing is also assumption. You have no scans or proof showing Madara's swipes going through the same density and quantity of material and you only believe that he can do this because you believe that all Perfect Susano-o's are equal in power which is another assumption you made which you haven't provided no canonical proof for sides your own speculation on the matter. Madara has never cut through rock of the quantity and density Sasuke did. Even though being reasonable one could suggest that Madara may be able to accomplish the same feat with his own Susano'o based on what we've seen, that is an assumption, not a fact.

This is the 2nd time that you ignored me saying that Sasuke needed the Biju to match Naruto. They are not equal.
Even together, Naruto and Sasuke do not match his firepower. That is not the reason that they would've beaten him.


Pre-jinchuriki Madara being stronger than Sasuke does nothing to imply that him and Naruto working together would not have been able to simply touch Madara as a Ten Tails' jinchuriki with their seals.

Sasuke needed the Bijuu to match Naruto's raw power, true. Naruto also needed Kurama to win the fight, also true. Naruto having more raw power and Chakra than Sasuke doesn't mean he is stronger. Raw power and Chakra doesn't determine who is stronger than who because Naruto isn't DragonballZ. We had a MS Sasuke removing limbs from a Raikage who had Tail beast level of Chakra while Sasuke's raw power and reserves were no where near Ay's. Your point is invalid. Naruto and Sasuke were equal in the sense that they both received power from Hagoromo that would allow them to beat Madara together.

@ Bold: Bruh. If they were not handing his ass to him, he wouldn't have needed to retreat to get the second Rin'negan. Naruto and Sasuke matching his Firepower means nothing because again Raw power and chakra pools doesn't determine who's stronger than or as strong as who in the Naruto Manga.

@ Blue: 1) Pre-JJ Madara was not stronger than Sasuke after the powerup. 2) It does because Sasuke was fighting on Par with Madara who should have been unfathomably stronger than him and along with Naruto, they both sent him running for the Second Rin'negan.

Because both sides used their full power, except Sasuke? You would be a clown to think the author would allow a Jubi Jinchuriki use his full power against the main character. The plot restricts characters from using their full potential in order for the main characters to survive. If the opposing side possess greater power than the main character, then he's restricted.

I will propose a single question to you as I am interested to hear your thoughts on it as a means to validate warranting further responses: Do you think that JJ Obito was holding back against BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke?
 
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Edogawa

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I will propose a single question to you as I am interested to hear your thoughts on it as a means to validate warranting further responses: Do you think that JJ Obito was holding back against BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke?

If Obito attempted to kill them, then he wasn't holding back. That still doesn't counter-argue the established fact that author restricts a character's full potential against the main character for plot reasons. What would be Obito's full potential as JJ? Aside from possessing the Jubi's fire-power and durability that far exceeds Naruto's and Sasuke's combined (it exceeds them so much that nothing can estimate the difference), the Six Paths techniques granted by the Rinnegan used in conjunction with the Jubi's Chakra and etc. The Chakra level issue he said is removed once he hosts the Jubi. The plot restricted his full potential so much that he can't use Kamui's intangibility for unknown reason.

The flaw in your post is, you fail to take into account of theoretical feats Jubi Jinchuriki is capable of doing, when you said the duo are equal in power to a Jubi Jinchuriki. The flaw in your post is an established plot restrictions. Naruto and Sasuke, at their golden age, outside of Kishimoto's hack writing, can't and will never ever slightly push JJ Obito or JJ Madara, due to the power gap in fire-power, durability and additional individual powers granted by the Jubi hosts opposed to Naruto and Sasuke.
 

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You're the one taking text out of context yet you're saying I'm finding loopholes? The entry doesn't make a distinction between past and present.



The narrative of the whole entry is in the past. It begins with past events, explains Madara's power in present tense, continues with past events, explains Madara's rational, ends with past events. What part of this do you not understand? Again this is not proof that Pre-JJ Madara is stronger than Rikudo Sasuke because him being the strongest of the Uchiha clan in context of the entry who's narrative is in the past doesn't mean he is the strongest Uchiha in every timeline.

Fixed.



Right now= term you've invented to apply to a pretext to get across a point which doesn't mesh from any angle. The Databook said that When Madara and Hashirama were called Legendary shinobi, Madara was the strongest of the Uchiha clan.
The databook doesn't say that Madara was the strongest of the clan. If it was referring to past tense, then it would've done so just like every other instance where the past is brought up.

It says that he is the strongest of the clan, so this point is moot. Stop adding in imaginary context.

@Bold: It obviously does compress the debris. Did you really think that it gained the composure of a a solid circularly shape of rock by simply holding rocks next to one another or just attracted them hear the core? Nahh...that's not now a gravity core works. The debris would have to be crushed and condensed for it to take such a dense structure.

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Rocks "A" would be crushed by the incoming force of the accelerating rocks "B" and following this pattern as larger, heavier segments of accelerating rocks and debris come smashing into the center. The smaller segments of rocks produce from these collisions would fill the spaces between larger segments of rocks crushing it into a spherical shape.

If it was as you claimed, then CT would stay in one complete piece after the jutsu was released. Rather, the individual debris composing them fall back down in their original state, so nope, there is absolutely nothing happening on a molecular level.

Obviously the rocks are crushed together. That doesn't make CT more durable than the material that composes it though. You couldn't even begin to make that claim.


@Red: Bruh. The burden of proof is on you. I have scans showing Sasuke's sword swipes slicing through rock of that quantity and density, where are your scans of Madara doing the same? You saying sasuke's sword swipes are only mountain range/mountain level even though his swipes went right through the rock of JJ-Madara's CT is assumption and saying that Madara can replicate the same thing is also assumption. You have no scans or proof showing Madara's swipes going through the same density and quantity of material and you only believe that he can do this because you believe that all Perfect Susano-o's are equal in power which is another assumption you made which you haven't provided no canonical proof for sides your own speculation on the matter. Madara has never cut through rock of the quantity and density Sasuke did. Even though being reasonable one could suggest that Madara may be able to accomplish the same feat with his own Susano'o based on what we've seen, that is an assumption, not a fact.
Sasuke's slashes at VOTE were clearly shown to be mountain range level at best, so no that isn't an assumption on my part.
Madara can replicate the destruction that Sasuke showed at VOTE, so he can replicate any feat that Sasuke has done with the sword.
No, as clarified, Sasuke did not cut through more dense material.

Sasuke needed the Bijuu to match Naruto's raw power, true. Naruto also needed Kurama to win the fight, also true. Naruto having more raw power and Chakra than Sasuke doesn't mean he is stronger. Raw power and Chakra doesn't determine who is stronger than who because Naruto isn't DragonballZ. We had a MS Sasuke removing limbs from a Raikage who had Tail beast level of Chakra while Sasuke's raw power and reserves were no where near Ay's. Your point is invalid. Naruto and Sasuke were equal in the sense that they both received power from Hagoromo that would allow them to beat Madara together.

@ Bold: Bruh. If they were not handing his ass to him, he wouldn't have needed to retreat to get the second Rin'negan. Naruto and Sasuke matching his Firepower means nothing because again Raw power and chakra pools doesn't determine who's stronger than or as strong as who in the Naruto Manga.

@ Blue: 1) Pre-JJ Madara was not stronger than Sasuke after the powerup. 2) It does because Sasuke was fighting on Par with Madara who should have been unfathomably stronger than him and along with Naruto, they both sent him running for the Second Rin'negan.
Naruto is the jinchuriki of all of the Biju while they are an external power source for Sasuke. How can that even be compared? Sasuke needed the Biju to match Naruto's power.

He retreated because they almost sealed him. They can't match his raw power, but they can seal him away with a touch. They were not stronger than him.

You're saying that Sasuke was fighting on par with Madara as a Ten Tails' jinchuriki? If Sasuke was alone then Madara would've killed him with hardly any effort.
 

TRE MERCER

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LMAO im not sure why Waltz is even bothering going back and forth with Thesage he wanks Hashirama and Madara to another level.
 

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LMAO im not sure why Waltz is even bothering going back and forth with Thesage he wanks Hashirama and Madara to another level.

''Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.''

I respect Waltz because he makes a counter-argument against the substance TheSages456 proposes, while you and your Internet buddies resort to personal attacks. Just like kids.
 

TRE MERCER

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''Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.''

I respect Waltz because he makes a counter-argument against the substance TheSages456 proposes, while you and your Internet buddies resort to personal attacks. Just like kids.
I really don't care. Also there is 0 point on arguing with thesage because even when he's know he's wrong he'll just keep going and going so their is no point to debate against him when it comes to Madara.
 

Edogawa

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I really don't care. Also there is 0 point on arguing with thesage because even when he's know he's wrong he'll just keep going and going so their is no point to debate against him when it comes to Madara.

Ad hominem just as I said. You can either challenge whatever substance the opposing side brings up, or you can just keep quite.
 

Waltz

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If Obito attempted to kill them, then he wasn't holding back. That still doesn't counter-argue the established fact that author restricts a character's full potential against the main character for plot reasons. What would be Obito's full potential as JJ? Aside from possessing the Jubi's fire-power and durability that far exceeds Naruto's and Sasuke's combined (it exceeds them so much that nothing can estimate the difference), the Six Paths techniques granted by the Rinnegan used in conjunction with the Jubi's Chakra and etc. The Chakra level issue he said is removed once he hosts the Jubi. The plot restricted his full potential so much that he can't use Kamui's intangibility for unknown reason.

The flaw in your post is, you fail to take into account of theoretical feats Jubi Jinchuriki is capable of doing, when you said the duo are equal in power to a Jubi Jinchuriki. The flaw in your post is an established plot restrictions. Naruto and Sasuke, at their golden age, outside of Kishimoto's hack writing, can't and will never ever slightly push JJ Obito or JJ Madara, due to the power gap in fire-power, durability and additional individual powers granted by the Jubi hosts opposed to Naruto and Sasuke.

Although one could theoretically attribute the other powers you mentioned in a non-plot influenced out of character Juubi Jinchuriki as a possibility, an IC Jinchuriki could never be attributed those feats. Its theory. Also, obito not using kamui was justified. Covered that in a thread a few years back.​
 
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BLAZE

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inb4 this guy retorts to 4th grade fail insult again
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