Isn't Naruto's power technically his own?

[The Necromancer]

Exactly. Take away Kurama "The supposed handicap" and give Naruto back all the years he spent dealing/tolerating with Kurama. Also the years he spent training with Jiraiya to control that power. All those years could've been better spent to learning/creating new justus. Even unlocking his second affinity next to wind.

Ok, and? So now he's an above average shinobi. Congrats?

Sakura also had superior teachers, skills, and chakra control.

 

[Nick01]

Ok, and? So now he's an above average shinobi. Congrats?

Sure. By the end of the manga he'd still be in the top 10, if we strip everyone of anything that would be considered borrowed/taken powers.

 

[rollin]

you control kurama's chakra by making it your own

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atusi said it's naruto's chakra not kurama's

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[Beatrix]

A lot of what Kurama is/does for Naruto, how it's all achieved just absolutely kills any notion that Naruto Uzumaki is a 'genius of hard work'.

His training regimen is just a series of hacks perpetuated by Shadow Clones and the chakra of his dead parents.

The only thing I really appreciated about his development was Sage Mode and even that got majorly side-lined - could have used more development and have had Naruto go further with it.

Rasengan is all well and good, but after the 50th variation it was just... zero f*cks given. Everytime I see that swirly blue ball and the shout of "RASENGAN!" I hit a new level of apathy.

 

[The Necromancer]

Sure. By the end of the manga he'd still be in the top 10, if we strip everyone of anything that would be considered borrowed/taken powers.

That's not even true.

Hashirama
Tobirama
3rd Raikage
Minato
Hiruzen
Itachi
Deidara
Kakuzu
Sasori
Jiraiya
Orochimaru
2nd Mizukage
Onoki
Kisame
Gai
Lee

All more powerful than SM Naruto, and that's just off the top of my head. Even if you can narrow that down, there's still so many shinobi better than Naruto's potential cap.

But as I've said multiple times, the debate is over. It's been admitted multiple times that Naruto has a great handicap which gives him most of his potential. That's all I care about.

 

[Warlocks]

no

same as sasuke ems its borrowed power :dunno:

 

[LoZelda101]

you control kurama's chakra by making it your own

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atusi said it's naruto's chakra not kurama's

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lol he literally just said "My chakra and handed it to you"

/THREAD

 

[Sir Blades]

You seriously want to say Sasuke has steroids, but Naruto just has a little info?

That's the dumbest analogy I've heard. Maybe if Naruto's team was given 20 more players who were all faster and who never got tired, then your analogy would be appropriate.

The Kyuubi gives Naruto a boost to everything he could ever need. Sasuke's handicap gives him back what he already lost, making him break even, then (possibly) gives him a single ability which costs more chakra.

Naruto has always gotten the better abilities more often, and has never lost one, meanwhile Sasuke has lost abilities, gotten useless abilities, and gotten abilities with drawbacks which almost negate the boons they give.

But this isn't about Sasuke, this is about Naruto. And seeing as how the biggest Naruto fanboy of them all has already acknowledged Naruto's insanely massive handicap as being one of the main factors of his success and skill cap, I would say we're done here.



Exactly. It shouldn't take this many years to understand this.

Did he not take drugs to enhance all his natural abilities and undergo non-traditional means to attain power?
Was he not given a pair of new eyes with a given set of abilities to him? Otherwise he would be blind and there wouldn't be Sasuke the missing-nin to begin with?
Was he not given a curse mark in part one?

You seem to have this tendency to apply your disposition to come to conclusions too soon and put words in people's mouths.
Its not a "little info" never said so, its info PERIOD
Info is info during gameplay.
You keep using this whole adding 20 people crap to justify your failed attempt to shine naruto as a handicapped ninja. Thats not the case.
Lets go with it then. Sasuke with steroids=20 players, earpiece with coach plays and calls=a set of eyes that can see potential plays and moves.
Now another thing you failed to realize is that kishi made naruto and sasuke equal. That is the end game.
It is about sasuke because for every time someone tries to question and diminish naruto's abilities and feats he is brought up to compare him and see how he is inferior, same way vice versa.
For every ability naruto has sasuke contains the same or counter feat.
For naruto's speed you have sasuke's teleportation.
For naruto's healing you have sasuke's defense.
For naruto's attack power you have a comparable power with sasuke.
For naruto's large chakra pool you have sasuke's impressive chakra control.
For naruto's rasengan you have sasuke's chidori.
For naruto's kurama whisper you have sasuke's intellect.
For naruto's kurama you have sasuke's eyes (formerly itch's)
Both have powers that can match each other and negate each other.
Sasuke is no martyr or poor soul of useless abilities.
But agreed this is over, we wont see eye to eye on this.

 

[Warlocks]

That's not even true.

Hashirama
Tobirama
3rd Raikage
Minato
Hiruzen
Itachi
Deidara
Kakuzu
Sasori
Jiraiya
Orochimaru
2nd Mizukage
Onoki
Kisame

All more powerful than SM Naruto, and that's just off the top of my head. Even if you can narrow that down, there's still so many shinobi better than Naruto's potential cap.

all chakra was given by so6p so in way all power in nv is borrowed/taken powers

 

[Dannie]

you control kurama's chakra by making it your own

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atusi said it's naruto's chakra not kurama's

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You would have made a good point with this if Kurama didn't outright state that he handed him his chakra to give to Naruto..

 

[The Necromancer]

Did he not take drugs to enhance all his natural abilities and undergo non-traditional means to attain power?
Was he not given a pair of new eyes with a given set of abilities to him? Otherwise he would be blind and there wouldn't be Sasuke the missing-nin to begin with?
Was he not given a curse mark in part one?

You seem to have this tendency to apply your disposition to come to conclusions too soon and put words in people's mouths.
Its not a "little info" never said so, its info PERIOD
Info is info during gameplay.
You keep using this whole adding 20 people crap to justify your failed attempt to shine naruto as a handicapped ninja. Thats not the case.
Lets go with it then. Sasuke with steroids=20 players, earpiece with coach plays and calls=a set of eyes that can see potential plays and moves.
Now another thing you failed to realize is that kishi made naruto and sasuke equal. That is the end game.
It is about sasuke because for every time someone tries to question and diminish naruto's abilities and feats he is brought up to compare him and see how he is inferior, same way vice versa.
For every ability naruto has sasuke contains the same or counter feat.
For naruto's speed you have sasuke's teleportation.
For naruto's healing you have sasuke's defense.
For naruto's attack power you have a comparable power with sasuke.
For naruto's large chakra pool you have sasuke's impressive chakra control.
For naruto's rasengan you have sasuke's chidori.
For naruto's kurama whisper you have sasuke's intellect.
For naruto's kurama you have sasuke's eyes (formerly itch's)
Both have powers that can match each other and negate each other.
Sasuke is no martyr or poor soul of useless abilities.

Lol

-Speculation on drug use. (Not to mention that Naruto took drugs to train too...)
-What new abilities did EMS give him? Maybe PS, which takes a shit load of chakra to use?
-And he lost it, didn't he?

And for every counter you bring up that Sasuke has, you fail to realize that those counters come from Sasuke himself, while Naruto's abilities usually stem from Kurama. So you might as well say that it's Kurama vs. Sasuke and Naruto is just the meat puppet who makes it work.

You also fail to realize that nearly every ability of Sasuke's takes far more skill than Naruto's.

-Naruto can run really fast, and Sasuke has to use a jutsu.
-Naruto heals for free, and Sasuke has to use a jutsu.
-Naruto gets chakra which increases his power, and Sasuke has to pump his own abilities with his own chakra.
-Naruto gets near infinite chakra for free, and Sasuke has to have tremendous skill and precision all the time.
-Naruto gets free information from Kurama, and Sasuke has to have his own information and thought process.
-Naruto gets an infinite chakra monster with eons of knowledge, Sasuke gets glasses and an ability which drains him.

Both have powers that cancel each other, but Naruto has more handicaps than Sasuke which make it possible. That's exactly how handicaps work, they bring the weaker up to equal the stronger. Give Sasuke and Naruto both the Kyuubi and EMS, and who do you think will come out the victor?

But I'm done with this debate. Besides being already over, it's spam.

 

[rollin]

lol he literally just said "My chakra and handed it to you"

/THREAD

You would have made a good point with this if Kurama didn't outright state that he handed him his chakra to give to Naruto..

The question is,is naruto's power technically his own?
Technically that is not kurama's chakra anymore?
It came from him but naruto has combined and turned it into his own chakra otherwise atsui wouldn't have changed his mind and said it was narutos chakra instead of kurama's

 

[The Necromancer]

The question is,is naruto's power technically his own?
Technically that is not kurama's chakra anymore?
It came from him but naruto has combined and turned it into his own chakra otherwise atsui wouldn't have changed his mind and said it was narutos chakra instead of kurama's

You're looking at this from a Manga plot perspective, not a competition perspective.

If I take steroids, yes, I am strong. I can lift a lot of things other people cannot. But I'm not allowed to join professional sports teams or weight lifting, because it's an advantage nobody else has.

The Kyuubi is an unfair handicap nobody else has, which blurs the line of where Naruto's individual skill and power stop, and the Kyuubi's begins. If everyone in the manga had the power of the Kyuubi, you better believe Naruto would be left behind by miles.

 

[rollin]

You're looking at this from a Manga plot perspective, not a competition perspective.

If I take steroids, yes, I am strong. I can lift a lot of things other people cannot. But I'm not allowed to join professional sports teams or weight lifting, because it's an advantage nobody else has.

he said technically and technically this is kurama's chakra

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and technically this is naruto's

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[Sir Blades]

Lol

-Speculation on drug use. (Not to mention that Naruto took drugs to train too...)
-What new abilities did EMS give him? Maybe PS, which takes a shit load of chakra to use?
-And he lost it, didn't he?

And for every counter you bring up that Sasuke has, you fail to realize that those counters come from Sasuke himself, while Naruto's abilities usually stem from Kurama. So you might as well say that it's Kurama vs. Sasuke and Naruto is just the meat puppet who makes it work.

You also fail to realize that nearly every ability of Sasuke's takes far more skill than Naruto's.

-Naruto can run really fast, and Sasuke has to use a jutsu. Sasuke is naturally faster than naruto, naruto boosted with kurama is the same as sasuke boosted by his eyes to teleport.
-Naruto heals for free, and Sasuke has to use a jutsu. Both use chakra.
-Naruto gets chakra which increases his power, and Sasuke has to pump his own abilities with his own chakra. Sasuke uses sasano'o to increase his power.
-Naruto gets near infinite chakra for free, and Sasuke has to have tremendous skill and precision all the time. Its not near infinite and is can be depleted if not used skillfully, and sasuke is naturally talented, there is no strain from his chakra control because it becomes second nature just like kurama is second nature to naruto.
-Naruto gets free information from Kurama, and Sasuke has to have his own information and thought process. Naruto could use kage bushin to learn strategy and come up with plans. Plus he still has to physically make the call, you could tell a baby to go to the left all you want but it wont listen unlike with an older person.
-Naruto gets an infinite chakra monster with eons of knowledge, Sasuke gets glasses and an ability which drains him. You said it yourself he is a chakra entity, he is simply pure chakra with a consciousness. Sasuke gets glasses that do the same job and is naturally talented as it has become second nature to control his chakra, dont diminish sasuke's skill.

Both have powers that cancel each other, but Naruto has more handicaps than Sasuke which make it possible. That's exactly how handicaps work, they bring the weaker up to equal the stronger. Give Sasuke and Naruto both the Kyuubi and EMS, and who do you think will come out the victor?
Better question yet, have a naruto with no kurama and a sasuke with no eyes and what do you get?

But I'm done with this debate. Besides being already over, it's spam.That went out the window the moment you decided to edit your post 11 minutes later.

It was easier this way. :bdpf:

 

[The Necromancer]

he said technically and technically this is kurama's chakra

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and technically this is naruto's

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Technically, yes. But 90% of the time, people aren't talking about technicalities.

 

[Dannie]

and technically this is naruto's

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Technically that is Kurama's chakra.

And why are you taking that Cloud ninjas's word over Kurama's himself?

 

[rollin]

Technically that is Kurama's chakra.
And why are you taking that Cloud ninjas's word over Kurama's himself?

kurama's statement doesnt necessarily make atsui's statement any irrelevant
this is kurama's chakra

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all of those situations were kurama's chakra taking over naruto
i get the the point that naruto wouldnt be as strong without kurama
but it states the only way to have control of kurama is to filter it's hate and combine it's chakra with yours
it is technically now naruto's it comes from kurama but it's now technically his

 

[SZiaee]

You speak as if Naruto gained his skill only after utilizing kurama's chakra, that simply isn't the case. If you give a child a loaded gun that won't make him a gunslinger. Naruto possess the skills and knowledge to use kurama's chakra the way he does. You think kurama alone can perform Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken? Get real.

Sasuke is able to handle that chakra .... But Kishimoto didn't gift him ... And Tailed beast ball rasenshuriken <<<<< Indra's arrow tailed beast ball
.......
So , many people can handle that much chakra and have better skills than Naruto without kurama (e.g : Hashirama) .... But Naruto is superior just because of Kurama ...

 

[SZiaee]

Remove anything that would even be considered borrowed power by anyone, then we would have :
MS Sasuke - That would pretty much be his limit leading to eventual blindness.

SM Naruto - Same, though the more experienced the SM is, the better.

MS Sasuke would awaken Rinnegan .