TimothyTheTomato
Active member
Base Goku And Vegeta after Whis training>Peak Goku against Beerus
Goku against Beerus was constantly evolving in power due to the ritual and him being a prodigy and at the end his ki peaked out in base form when he destroyed the sphere of destruction. The strongest ki construct of the fight.
Now this merge and evolution in power was emphasized to be permanent as Goku said "I'm just me",Beerus said he "merged" with the power and Vegeta said he "evolved".
The whole God of Destruction arc is about surpassing Gokus limits.
"I Never knew a world like this existed"
"The super saiyan god power tells me to Keep going higher"
"You intend to Keep going above the power of a god"
"He's surpassed super saiyan god,the level of gods"
"You still haven't reached your limit"
"Look just because you're a god,Beerus sama,doesn't mean you can put limits on people"
It should also be noted that peak Goku as well as rof Goku are using mortal ki in combat and that god ki is only *accessed in god forms* during combat.
After the fight ended his gains did not diminish
Rof Base Goku And Vegeta being stronger than Goku against Beerus is not Only supported later by Krillin And Gohan but by Beerus himself
Gohan and Krillin state Goku while in base is beyond what he fought Beerus with.
And they are referring to Peak Goku against Beerus as they sensed that.
*******************
This is supported By Gohan Krillin and Beerus himself.
Even in Toyotaros Rof manga its portrayed that rof base Goku is on par or beyond himself against Beerus
Base Goku fights Monaka Costume Beerus, and Beerus enjoys the fight in episode 42. This would further support he is on par with himself against Beerus or beyond as Beerus was not finger flicking him away( what happened to ss3 pre god goku) or clawing at his heart(the fate pre zenkai ssg goku suffered)
Base Copy Vegeta easily dominated ss3 Gotenks, a super boo level enemy, further validation that base goku and Vegeta are ssg tier.
And Vegeta kills Tagoma an ultimate Gohan tier enemy(bare minimum)
With ease.
There is far too much evidence for this to be denied
Now time to address the reason why ppl have been pushing downplaying theories.
Frost
Cabba
Piccolo
Trunks
Maggetta Hit and Botamo are unique special cases as well.
We've seen ridiculous gains in dbz plenty of times
Did it make sense when kid goten and trunks proved to be mssj tier?
Or when Piccolo went from below nappa to over nail in a few days
Or when Krillin and goku surpassed bodb oozaru goku from farming and other meager training tactics
Or when Freeza became ssb+ tier from torturing tagoma for months
Etc.
Peak Goku( against Beerus)tier to dbs is essentially like how planetary is to z. A new impressive benchmark introduced in the beginning that soon becomes a constantly surpassed standard.
New series new scaling. Stop the denial,theories,etc.
Goku against Beerus was constantly evolving in power due to the ritual and him being a prodigy and at the end his ki peaked out in base form when he destroyed the sphere of destruction. The strongest ki construct of the fight.
You must be registered for see links
Now this merge and evolution in power was emphasized to be permanent as Goku said "I'm just me",Beerus said he "merged" with the power and Vegeta said he "evolved".
The whole God of Destruction arc is about surpassing Gokus limits.
"I Never knew a world like this existed"
"The super saiyan god power tells me to Keep going higher"
"You intend to Keep going above the power of a god"
"He's surpassed super saiyan god,the level of gods"
"You still haven't reached your limit"
"Look just because you're a god,Beerus sama,doesn't mean you can put limits on people"
It should also be noted that peak Goku as well as rof Goku are using mortal ki in combat and that god ki is only *accessed in god forms* during combat.
You must be registered for see links
Two base theory debunk
The two base theory aka the dbs new character downplay theory is proven to be very invalid when
A) Ssj Goku surpassed ssg and is operating on regular ki
B) Base Goku against Rof Freeza was using regular ki in base
C) Whenever a character is shifting into god ki Its specifically stated( these theorists are just assuming when for biased purposes) and the only time its been noted is when they go into god form. Meaning Goku and Vegeta never have fought using god ki unless they're in god form( but their mortal forms are op still)
When Goku went ssb against freeza it was then noted he was using god ki not a second before meaning he didn't transform from some god ki base that these "theorists" make up.
But i Have scans supporting all three of my points
The Goku that surpassed ssg was using regular ki
The Goku that fought rof Freeza was using regular ki
The vegeta that killed tagoma( ultimate Gohan tier according to Gohan) was using regular ki
The copy vegeta that beat Gotenks was using regular ki
The Base Goku that fought Beerus in Monaka Costume was using regular ki
These "theorists" can't cite one source indicating they switched to god ki in these instances.
You only use god ki in god forms
Gokus mortal forms have gotten stronger and operate only on regular ki
If not
Then why is it only noted that they're using god ki only when they go god form and not a single second earlier
So these "theorists" need to
stop pushing their theories as fact *and accept the power inflation*
Now let's see more evidence debunking that theory from another well informed individual..
" Topic:Goku (and Vegeta) only have God ki in their SSJG and SSJB forms
After Goku revert from SSJG to SSJ, his ki can now be sense by the Z Warriors.
Quotes
Goten: That's Dad's ki!
Piccolo: Wait. If we can sense his ki...it can't be...
Whis: Precisely. The fact that you can all sense Son Goku-san's ki...can only mean that he's exceeded the amount of time he can stay as a Super Saiyan God and has reverted to a regular Super Saiyan.
Time length
16:57-17:21
Despite reverting to SSJ, Beerus stated Goku kept the SSJG power.[ Vegeta even says he evolves past it and surpassed it]
Quote
"It seems the Super Saiyan God's power did not disappear, even though time ran out. Rather, it fully merged with, and became apart of, you."
SSJ Goku (post God ki)=SSJG Goku
Time length
19:42-19:55
Episode 13 link
When Goku transform into SSJB, Kuririn stated he can't no longer sense Goku's ki.
Quote
I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now!
Time length
20:20-20:23
Before Goku transform, Kuririn compare Goku's fight with Freeza to his fight with Beerus. Meaning Goku is using normal ki in his Base form.
Quote
This is different from the fight with Beerus...I've got this indescribable sense of genuine horror.
Base Goku (ROF)>SSJ Goku(post God ki)SSJG Goku
Time length
4:50-4:54
Episode 24 link
In conclusion
Goku (and Vegeta) don't switch their God ki off and on.They remain in the same power as SSJG Goku is at least in their Base forms.All of the opponents they have fought (since the ROF Saga) are fighting SSJG Goku level at least."
Credit to
+きりしまとうか on Google plus
The two base theory aka the dbs new character downplay theory is proven to be very invalid when
A) Ssj Goku surpassed ssg and is operating on regular ki
B) Base Goku against Rof Freeza was using regular ki in base
C) Whenever a character is shifting into god ki Its specifically stated( these theorists are just assuming when for biased purposes) and the only time its been noted is when they go into god form. Meaning Goku and Vegeta never have fought using god ki unless they're in god form( but their mortal forms are op still)
When Goku went ssb against freeza it was then noted he was using god ki not a second before meaning he didn't transform from some god ki base that these "theorists" make up.
But i Have scans supporting all three of my points
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
The Goku that surpassed ssg was using regular ki
The Goku that fought rof Freeza was using regular ki
The vegeta that killed tagoma( ultimate Gohan tier according to Gohan) was using regular ki
The copy vegeta that beat Gotenks was using regular ki
The Base Goku that fought Beerus in Monaka Costume was using regular ki
These "theorists" can't cite one source indicating they switched to god ki in these instances.
You only use god ki in god forms
Gokus mortal forms have gotten stronger and operate only on regular ki
If not
Then why is it only noted that they're using god ki only when they go god form and not a single second earlier
So these "theorists" need to
stop pushing their theories as fact *and accept the power inflation*
Now let's see more evidence debunking that theory from another well informed individual..
" Topic:Goku (and Vegeta) only have God ki in their SSJG and SSJB forms
After Goku revert from SSJG to SSJ, his ki can now be sense by the Z Warriors.
Quotes
Goten: That's Dad's ki!
Piccolo: Wait. If we can sense his ki...it can't be...
Whis: Precisely. The fact that you can all sense Son Goku-san's ki...can only mean that he's exceeded the amount of time he can stay as a Super Saiyan God and has reverted to a regular Super Saiyan.
Time length
16:57-17:21
Despite reverting to SSJ, Beerus stated Goku kept the SSJG power.[ Vegeta even says he evolves past it and surpassed it]
Quote
"It seems the Super Saiyan God's power did not disappear, even though time ran out. Rather, it fully merged with, and became apart of, you."
SSJ Goku (post God ki)=SSJG Goku
Time length
19:42-19:55
Episode 13 link
You must be registered for see links
When Goku transform into SSJB, Kuririn stated he can't no longer sense Goku's ki.
Quote
I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now!
Time length
20:20-20:23
Before Goku transform, Kuririn compare Goku's fight with Freeza to his fight with Beerus. Meaning Goku is using normal ki in his Base form.
Quote
This is different from the fight with Beerus...I've got this indescribable sense of genuine horror.
Base Goku (ROF)>SSJ Goku(post God ki)SSJG Goku
Time length
4:50-4:54
Episode 24 link
You must be registered for see links
In conclusion
Goku (and Vegeta) don't switch their God ki off and on.They remain in the same power as SSJG Goku is at least in their Base forms.All of the opponents they have fought (since the ROF Saga) are fighting SSJG Goku level at least."
Credit to
+きりしまとうか on Google plus
After the fight ended his gains did not diminish
Rof Base Goku And Vegeta being stronger than Goku against Beerus is not Only supported later by Krillin And Gohan but by Beerus himself
You must be registered for see links
Gohan and Krillin state Goku while in base is beyond what he fought Beerus with.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
And they are referring to Peak Goku against Beerus as they sensed that.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
*******************
This is supported By Gohan Krillin and Beerus himself.
You must be registered for see links
Even in Toyotaros Rof manga its portrayed that rof base Goku is on par or beyond himself against Beerus
Base Goku fights Monaka Costume Beerus, and Beerus enjoys the fight in episode 42. This would further support he is on par with himself against Beerus or beyond as Beerus was not finger flicking him away( what happened to ss3 pre god goku) or clawing at his heart(the fate pre zenkai ssg goku suffered)
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Base Copy Vegeta easily dominated ss3 Gotenks, a super boo level enemy, further validation that base goku and Vegeta are ssg tier.
And Vegeta kills Tagoma an ultimate Gohan tier enemy(bare minimum)
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
With ease.
There is far too much evidence for this to be denied
Now time to address the reason why ppl have been pushing downplaying theories.
Frost
Frost is essentially a Freeza that's constantly in combat that doesnt have the luxury of a evolution such as the golden form to make him Ssb tier. Now Assault Frost proved to be equal to or greater than rof final form Freeza by stalemating base Goku. His final form seems higher than rof final form freeza
Cabba
Now if base Cabba really does equal base Vegeta it doesnt mean base Vegeta is weak. Quit placing caps on characters whom you Have no backstory on. Cabba is from another evolved saiyan race. Its noted that universe 6 Saiyans are evolved to the point where they don't need tails or an oozaru form anymore. And that they are in constant combat. Now why would the universe 6 saiyan representative for the tournament chosen by Vados be weak. He's introduced to us as a prodigy whom Vegeta told could one day surpass him.
Piccolo
Now Piccolo briefly trained with Gohan. We know this Gohan is likely stronger than ultimate Gohan in z due to Tagomas power and Gohan wanting to test out his gains in the tournament, unfortunately he was busy with work. Ppl think Gohan needs to break character and turn into a sadist or he's fodder sadly. Piccolo obviously made high gains as his special beam cannon destroyed the same barrier champas blast didnt destroy to champas dismay "my super strong barrier!" and "I'd be humiliated if that got destroyed in a match" all prove that this is a very impressive feat. Piccolo surviving Hits from Frost doesnt make Frost weak whatsoever.
Trunks
Now we don't know how seriously Goku took his match with trunks but if trunks is over base goku it makes sense and heres why. Trunks is essentially what a battle orientated Gohan would be. Hybrid potential is hyped up constantly since the saiyan saga. After Gohan and Goten train for the boo saga tournament in z Gohan after talk about trunks and goten tells Goten that him and trunks have potential like with his own and that one day they could surpass him. Too bad the present timeline hybrids aren't in combat or constantly training. But oh will you look at future trunks. Prior to Blacks invasion he was already a ss2. Since then he's been fighting Black for a whole year. Toryama in the bog interview emphasized how saiyans improve via combat and we seen the ridiculous gains Freeza made in 4 months and the gains Vegeta made in 6 months with Whis.
We've seen ridiculous gains in dbz plenty of times
Did it make sense when kid goten and trunks proved to be mssj tier?
Or when Piccolo went from below nappa to over nail in a few days
Or when Krillin and goku surpassed bodb oozaru goku from farming and other meager training tactics
Or when Freeza became ssb+ tier from torturing tagoma for months
Etc.
Peak Goku( against Beerus)tier to dbs is essentially like how planetary is to z. A new impressive benchmark introduced in the beginning that soon becomes a constantly surpassed standard.
New series new scaling. Stop the denial,theories,etc.
