[Question] Is Zoro the 2nd in command of the SHs?

[Venomous Cobra]

Did I say confirmed LOL I said showed.I know Oda didn't confirm it directly but you can see it indirectly

So why were you saying Sanji would be a better vice-captain than Zoro when you think no one is a vice-captain xd You could have just said no one is better rather than arguing how Sanji is more intellectual and things xd


Oda also showed who and what is Zoro at Water 7 arc with Usopp thing...Oda also showed who took Luffy's pain.That all was indirectly showing what position Zoro holds in SH's and who is the most closest and captains right hand.

Sanji had the same resolve as Zoro, the scene wasn't exclusive to him, and in the same arc all the strawhats were given the same chance to sacrfice themselves for luffy before the uransus shock and they all did.

The water 7 arc incident I never disagreed with but others have done things of that caliber as well

Funny thing if you remember at Alabasta when Smoker nearly drown I wonder who Luffy asked to save Smoker....Oh snap it was bloody Zoro again out of all SH's it was again Zoro :/

Wait how does that make him more special than others? Zoro also went to help sanji with kiemon just because nami asked him....

Not to mention how Oda is consistently connecting first mate/vice-captain title with Zoro in manga.Zoro and only Zoro.Wonder why :/

Only once, from a fanboy like barto. The scene showed that zoro is thought of more highly than the other strawhats indeed, perhaps stronger as well but that assumption can easily be made by the government due to the fact that he fights first mate 8 time out 10 if not 9.

 

[loj]

You can see how from his reasoning and decisions during the discussion of Sanji, Kaido, and Big Mom.

Fair enough if that was him being serious

 

[Punk Hazard]

Fair enough if that was him being serious

You think he wasn't? Dead.

 

[Bogard]

Zoro already said it better

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Captain Zoro ftw

On a side note, wow 11pages :dunno:
Riker just doesn't know when to stop
As stubborn as cockroach

 

[loj]

Sanji had the same resolve as Zoro, the scene wasn't exclusive to him, and in the same arc all the strawhats were given the same chance to sacrfice themselves for luffy before the uransus shock and they all did.

The water 7 arc incident I never disagreed with but others have done things of that caliber as well



Wait how does that make him more special than others? Zoro also went to help sanji with kiemon just because nami asked him....


Only once, from a fanboy like barto. The scene showed that zoro is thought of more highly than the other strawhats indeed, perhaps stronger as well but that assumption can easily be made by the government due to the fact that he fights first mate 8 time out 10 if not 9.

How was it the same situation? Zoro acted like a vice-captain in the moments which matter,especially in that important situation with Usopp.He was the one who stood up and put sense into Luffy.Not Sanji,Robin or Nami.

That's what Oda is doing but you can't see it for some reason either you are blinded or you just don't care.

@Bold I don't care about Nami lol I wonder why is Luffy consistently asking Zoro to do stuff for him in serious situations.Zoro put sense into Luffy on Water 7.Luffy asked Zoro to help Smoker.He didn't say it to Nami or Sanji.It was Zoro again wonder why...Funny enough Zoro was also the one who took captain's pain on Thriller Bark.That was all indirectly showing Zoro's position in SH's.

Not just Barto it was Urogue as well.This might be too much but whole OP world sees Zoro as vice-captain and that was just not shown once but you and Riker still can't see it.I'm sure Oda wouldn't make Barto or Urogue say that without any situations.

You think he wasn't? Dead.

Just where did I say he wasn't :| Luffy also said stupid things sa captain so why's that so important anyways...

 

[Venomous Cobra]

How was it the same situation? Zoro acted like a vice-captain in the moments which matter,especially in that important situation with Usopp.He was the one who stood up and put sense into Luffy.Not Sanji,Robin or Nami.

Luffy is put in sense in zou from robin
Same in Enies Lobby with usopp

And of out of all his best moment was shared with sanji and this was later emphasized by brook

That's what Oda is doing but you can't see it for some reason either you are blinded or you just don't care

Ok enlighten me then

@Bold I don't care about Nami lol I wonder why is Luffy consistently asking Zoro to do stuff for him in serious situations.Zoro put sense into Luffy on Water 7.Luffy asked Zoro to help Smoker.He didn't say it to Nami or Sanji.It was Zoro again wonder why...Funny enough Zoro was also the one who took captain's pain on Thriller Bark.That was all indirectly showing Zoro's position in SH's.

You repeated the same thing, explain to me how him asking zoro to save smoker is idinicative of him being a vice captain, there are much better moments for zoro you could have used

Not just Barto it was Urogue as well.This might be too much but whole OP world sees Zoro as vice-captain and that was just not shown once but you and Riker still can't see it.I'm sure Oda wouldn't make Barto or Urogue say that without any situations.

Urouge case has more than one interpretation in the Japanese text as I have showed jn the earlier pages thus It isn't valid to bring up unless we're both fighting on which translation to go with. Yes oda woulf very much make him say that to emphasize zoros fame and the worlds outlook on him, as he made him say more ridiculous things

Just where did I say he wasn't :| Luffy also said stupid things sa captain so why's that so important anyways...

Are you going to dismiss his words just because they are stupid in your opinion? You're being way too self important

 

[loj]

Luffy is put in sense in zou from robin
Same in Enies Lobby with usopp

And of out of all his best moment was shared with sanji and this was later emphasized by brook

That's what Oda is doing but you can't see it for some reason either you are blinded or you just don't care.


You repeated the same thing, explain to me how him asking zoro to save smoker is idinicative of him being a vice captain, there are much better moments for zoro you could have used


Urouge case has more than one interpretation in the Japanese text as I have showed jn the earlier pages thus It isn't valid to bring up unless we're both fighting on which translation to go with. Yes oda woulf very much make him say that to emphasize zoros fame and the worlds outlook on him, as he made him say more ridiculous things





Are you going to dismiss his words just because they are stupid in your opinion? You're being way too self important

Usopp in Enies Lobby is just encouragement...What Zoro did in Water 7 is clearly different than what Usopp did,I forgot what Robin did at Zou sorry :/

I used that example since that showed who is Luffy putting his faith in all the time and who is always next to Luffy for help in these situations.And I used that situation since that's the first which got in my head.

So how are 2 times saying that Zoro is a vice-captain of some sorts] an accident? If 2 characters seen that so there are probs situations where they got that idea from.They haven't got it from anyone else.Hence I'm sure that in whole OP world Zoro is a vice-captain to them.

I'm not going to dismiss them but I don't get why is that a reason to why Zoro wouldn't be able to do vice-captains job XD I mean Luffy is always saying BS but they are still not dead as of now as far as I know so Zoro saying the things about Kaido,Sanji and Big Mom shouldn't be taken as serious as it is XD If Sanji or someone else got a better opinion fair play to them but that doesn't mean Zoro wouldn't be able to do vice-captains or as good job as other SH's.

I see it this way and I agree with iSren81,OP is a survival world.If you are not strong enough you are dead.

The first mate is the 2nd strongest one which I agree as well.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Usopp in Enies Lobby is just encouragement...What Zoro did in Water 7 is clearly different than what Usopp did,I forgot what Robin did at Zou sorry :/

What zoro did in water 7 was just a threat(See we can all use understatements)

Robin is the one who convinced luffy not to engage in action with big mom,

I used that example since that showed who is Luffy putting his faith in all the time and who is always next to Luffy for help in these situations.And I used that situation since that's the first which got in my head.

What? Luffy outs faith all of his crew mates in different situations,, this is a prime example
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I can use your logic and say "why didn't luffy ask anyone else, dats ri8t dats becuz sanji is the vice-captain " but that is clearly not the case here

So how are 2 times saying that Zoro is a vice-captain of some sorts] an accident? If 2 characters seen that so there are probs situations where they got that idea from.They haven't got it from anyone else.Hence I'm sure that in whole OP world Zoro is a vice-captain to them.

Only once, go read my Quote again. I have already explained this

Urouge case has more than one interpretation in the Japanese text as I have showed jn the earlier pages thus It isn't valid to bring up unless we're both fighting on which translation to go with. Yes oda woulf very much make him say that to emphasize zoros fame and the worlds outlook on him, as he made him say more ridiculous things

I'm not going to dismiss them but I don't get why is that a reason to why Zoro wouldn't be able to do vice-captains job XD I mean Luffy is always saying BS but they are still not dead as of now as far as I know so Zoro saying the things about Kaido,Sanji and Big Mom shouldn't be taken as serious as it is XD If Sanji or someone else got a better opinion fair play to them but that doesn't mean Zoro wouldn't be able to do vice-captains or as good job as other SH's.

IF YOU'RE not dismissing the Captains words then just say they are stupid, I never said this doesn't make zoro a vc I said uspp is canonically the closest one to get anything like a captain approoval of a vice captainrole, interpret it however **** you want, but don't say BS like" it's stupid so it doesn't count" or something like that

I se

The first mate is the 2nd strongest one which I agree as well.

Cool but not every second strongest is a vice captian marco is a good example. Same with shiryuu of rain, and kaidos calamities whom are put in the same status

 

[loj]

What zoro did in water 7 was just a threat(See we can all use understatements)

Robin is the one who convinced luffy not to engage in action with big mom,


What? Luffy outs faith all of his crew mates in different situations,, this is a prime example

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I can use your logic and say "why didn't luffy ask anyone else, dats ri8t dats becuz sanji is the vice-captain " but that is clearly not the case here


Only once, go read my Quote again. I have already explained this






IF YOU'RE not dismissing the Captains words then just say they are stupid, I never said this doesn't make zoro a vc I said uspp is canonically the closest one to get anything like a captain approoval of a vice captainrole, interpret it however **** you want, but don't say BS like" it's stupid so it doesn't count" or something like that

I se



Cool but not every second strongest is a vice captian marco is a good example. Same with shiryuu of rain, and kaidos calamities whom are put in the same statjs

Pic not working.

I'm saying Luffy is a captain and he is called a retard but Zoro can't be a vice-captain 'cause he is not intellectual that literally makes no sense what so ever...

So once Zoro says something terrible he is considered a joke but when Luffy says it then no one cares since he is a captain :| where's a logic in that...Luffy thought there are 4 Raftels :|

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Pic not working.

Edited

I'm saying Luffy is a captain and he is called a retard but Zoro can't be a vice-captain 'cause he is not intellectual that literally makes no sense what so ever...

I never said his intelligence doesn't make a vc, i said if you're looking for the most "suited" as you claimed then you have to look at that category as welll


also a retard can be a captain in a theory

So once Zoro says something terrible he is considered a joke but when Luffy says it then no one cares since he is a captain :| where's a logic in that...Luffy thought there are 4 Raftels :|

Lmao it's only terrible in your opinion, also when did I say zoro wasn't joking about anything? I'M sure as hell that he was serious in zou

 

[loj]

Edited


I never said his intelligence doesn't make a vc, i said if you're looking for the most "suited" as you claimed then you have to look at that category as welll


also a retard can be a captain in a theory


Lmao it's only terrible in your opinion, also when did I say zoro wasn't joking about anything? I'M sure as hell that he was serious in zou

Meeh that's not what I wanted to see you don't see what I see and I can't explain it so good as I want to since my first language is not English :/ welp I'll drop this debate since you 2 are the only ones which doesn't see the literal in the Zoro VC case.

I'm talking about mayday situations not captain just giving orders to others...it's natural for captain to make everyone involved.You don't get what I'm saying.

So him saying what he said about Kaido is not terrible? I don't even know anymore what do you want me to say...

 

[A v i]

This doesn't contradict my point. You said intelligence doesn't count, a navigator and strength are the only things that can. I'm saying intelligence plays just as big a role as brute strength and a navigator.

It's also a formula Oda hasn't used in 8-9 years of manga. It's not relevant anymore.

Of course not, but it shows that their word isn't credible.


None of these are remotely the same as Zoro being the Vice-Captain. Hero of the Marines is a nickname, it's not subject to opinion or false information. The Pirate King is defined as a certain thing, there's no arguing or false pretenses about it possible. The World Government decide who the Yonko is, so once again, no false pretenses possible. Something that is an OPINION, like Zoro's role in the crew to an outsider who isn't familiar with the crew, IS subject to false pretenses. So unless something like the narrator or Oda explicitly declares Zoro the Vice-Captain, word of mouth that leads to Luffy being an 8-foot tal monster doesn't mean shit.



Only two people have ever related Zoro to being the Vice-Captain. That correlates to the rest of the world now?

And how do you know that about Urouge? He's barely shown any personality traits.


Because everyone from Franky down are too weak to make that impression. The only other person strong enough to make that impression is Sanji, but because he operates in the dark and stays out of the World Government's spotlight, he doesn't get that reputation.



You'd look less dumb if you paid attention to the conversation. Lolwhatthehellever said intelligence doesn't matter. That scan isn't to prove that intelligence matters more, it's to prove that it does in fact matter. Pay attention next time you try to dive into a conversation.

You're probably the best at ignoring the actual point of a post and quote it over a reason which it wasn't intended for. :yeah: The titles needn't have to be the same as Zoro's stature. And what those titles are or/and how they're defined/acquired is irrelevant. The thing is that they are all nothing more than rumours for many people in OP world. Rumours aren't always false and you don't always have to be a direct witness or be directly involved to know the actual truth.

Prior to Zou arc, Oda never "directly" told us via the narrator note or by any other means that Luffy posses VOAT, we can comprehend that shit from the manga panels without anyone vocally pointing it out. All we need to conform something concerning manga to be the truth is the manga evidence. The author doesn't have to spoon feed us on every single thing for us to conform it to be the truth. We have plenty of those to conform Zoro's status in the crew. The statements from people Urouge like exists to just to support the norm that Zoro is the undisputed VC of the SH's.

Now, Rumours aren't exclusive for a couple of people in OP, Are they?! I'll reword the sentence for you, so replace the phrase "The OP world" with it. "Those who believes Zoro to be the Vice-Captain of SH's because of the rumours."

Urouge may not have complete info on everyone there is, But he's at least at average level and is a lot better than your average civilian. He immediately recognised Zoro and even knew what his exact bounty is; Not just Zoro, he also recognised who Kizaru and Kuma are unlike most of the SH's. It shows that he isn't ignorant like Luffy and actually keeps an eye on the world affairs. He actually showed interest in the war of the best and was also one of few people who predicted that BB will be the centre of the storm. There are more than enough conform that he's very knowledgeable.

So, a weak character can't even create a Vice-Captain like impression; Yet, for some reason, you seem to be under the impression that Nami Or/and Usopp are more of a VC than Zoro? (At least, that's what you seem to be implying from your posts) I don't think strength is actually an obstacle for a man who literally made Usopp a God. I don't even have to bring Buggy into the equation. Sanji in the Dark side? Last time I checked he's the who strives to be famous way more than Zoro and his fights thus far are as much centre staged as Zoro's. Further, it's Oda who choose to give Zoro a better spotlight than Sanji. It's because he wants to us to believe Zoro to be the next on the line after Luffy.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Meeh that's not what I wanted to see you don't see what I see and I can't explain it so good as I want to since my first language is not English :/ welp I'll drop this debate since you 2 are the only ones which doesn't see the literal in the Zoro VC case.

I'm talking about mayday situations not captain just giving orders to others...it's natural for captain to make everyone involved.You don't get what I'm saying.

So him saying what he said about Kaido is not terrible? I don't even know anymore what do you want me to say...

Your English is good enough to explain a lot of things from what I can tell from this debate, but if you want to drop it then ok

 

[loj]

Your English is good enough to explain a lot of things from what I can tell from this debate, but if you want to drop it then ok

I just don't know to explain it the way I want to say.Panels you showed me are something what captain needs to drder his crew what to do.Let's say that Sanji panel what you posted.The situation is not under "fire" if you get me.

I don't remember much in the early chapters,but Luffy is always calling for Zoro in mayday situations the example I made with Smoker and Zoro incident.That was the moment where he needed to act fast while thinking and putting faith in one person,who was it? Zoro.What is a first mate and what does he do?:

"Essentially, the first mate is the one officer the captain must put full trust in and pick carefully. They are the captain's right-hand man and if the captain is not at hand on the ship or is otherwise incapacitated, the first mate is the next in line to take over the captain's job."

This describes Zoro by all means.Luffy is always calling for Zoro when he is in a "fire" situation and Luffy is always putting full trust to Zoro example when he fought Pica or whoever and Luffy left Zoro alone after saying something like "Zoro will do it no worry" (I think that was Pica fight).I'm not saying Luffy doesn't put full trust to other members as well but this caught my eye.

Oda only connected Zoro to first mate title in One Piece world...examples - Urogue and Bartolomeda want the readers to see who is Zoro in SH's and what's his position in it.Also find it interesting how everyone else has a role to do on the ship but only Zoro hasn't got one,at least the official one.

Zoro is there when it matters and that Water 7 moment totally sealed the deal for me who is the first mate of SH's.Not only he handeled the situation perfectly he even put everyone to place.

Hope this helps in understanding how I think Zoro is different from others.

 

[LBeezy]

Tbvh here.. I think it's the difference in titles, which is causing all the unnecessary arguments between members..

I've read every post throughout these 11 pages within the course of a couple days.. and I've got to say what's on my mind.

Look..

Zoro is undoubtedly the "First Mate".

But the SH pirates do not have a "Vice Captain".

This thread title is asking if Zoro is the "2nd in command" for the SH pirates.. and the simple answer to that is, No. No he is not.
Like other members have mentioned, each and every SH can be 2nd in command at any given time.. it's not just 1 SH that can take command and give orders to the others. All of them can do that.. and all of the others will listen if it makes sense.. it's literally all about the situation and the circumstances.

If someone's sick, Chopper is gonna start giving out orders left and right and both Luffy and Zoro and any other SH are going to follow those orders without any debate.

If it's navigation, obviously Nami (always does this anyways) will start giving out orders for what each SH should do.. every SH listens and follows the orders.. or "commands" as the thread title says..

It goes Etc. Etc. for literally every SH..

If the situation calls for it, any SH can be 2nd in command, with Luffy's command being the ONLY ONE who would still come first no matter what. (As long as it follows character of course.)


So yeah, Zoro is the First Mate.

But the StrawHats do not have only one crewmember considered as "2nd in command".

 

[Punk Hazard]

Tbvh here.. I think it's the difference in titles, which is causing all the unnecessary arguments between members..

I've read every post throughout these 11 pages within the course of a couple days.. and I've got to say what's on my mind.

Look..

Zoro is undoubtedly the "First Mate".

But the SH pirates do not have a "Vice Captain".

This thread title is asking if Zoro is the "2nd in command" for the SH pirates.. and the simple answer to that is, No. No he is not.
Like other members have mentioned, each and every SH can be 2nd in command at any given time.. it's not just 1 SH that can take command and give orders to the others. All of them can do that.. and all of the others will listen if it makes sense.. it's literally all about the situation and the circumstances.

If someone's sick, Chopper is gonna start giving out orders left and right and both Luffy and Zoro and any other SH are going to follow those orders without any debate.

If it's navigation, obviously Nami (always does this anyways) will start giving out orders for what each SH should do.. every SH listens and follows the orders.. or "commands" as the thread title says..

It goes Etc. Etc. for literally every SH..

If the situation calls for it, any SH can be 2nd in command, with Luffy's command being the ONLY ONE who would still come first no matter what. (As long as it follows character of course.)


So yeah, Zoro is the First Mate.

But the StrawHats do not have only one crewmember considered as "2nd in command".

What does a first mate mean, then?

 

[loj]

Tbvh here.. I think it's the difference in titles, which is causing all the unnecessary arguments between members..

I've read every post throughout these 11 pages within the course of a couple days.. and I've got to say what's on my mind.

Look..

Zoro is undoubtedly the "First Mate".

But the SH pirates do not have a "Vice Captain".

This thread title is asking if Zoro is the "2nd in command" for the SH pirates.. and the simple answer to that is, No. No he is not.
Like other members have mentioned, each and every SH can be 2nd in command at any given time.. it's not just 1 SH that can take command and give orders to the others. All of them can do that.. and all of the others will listen if it makes sense.. it's literally all about the situation and the circumstances.

If someone's sick, Chopper is gonna start giving out orders left and right and both Luffy and Zoro and any other SH are going to follow those orders without any debate.

If it's navigation, obviously Nami (always does this anyways) will start giving out orders for what each SH should do.. every SH listens and follows the orders.. or "commands" as the thread title says..

It goes Etc. Etc. for literally every SH..

If the situation calls for it, any SH can be 2nd in command, with Luffy's command being the ONLY ONE who would still come first no matter what. (As long as it follows character of course.)


So yeah, Zoro is the First Mate.

But the StrawHats do not have only one crewmember considered as "2nd in command".

First mate and 2nd in command are same things...This is not a debate who joined first.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Tbvh here.. I think it's the difference in titles, which is causing all the unnecessary arguments between members..

I've read every post throughout these 11 pages within the course of a couple days.. and I've got to say what's on my mind.

Look..

Zoro is undoubtedly the "First Mate".

But the SH pirates do not have a "Vice Captain".

This thread title is asking if Zoro is the "2nd in command" for the SH pirates.. and the simple answer to that is, No. No he is not.
Like other members have mentioned, each and every SH can be 2nd in command at any given time.. it's not just 1 SH that can take command and give orders to the others. All of them can do that.. and all of the others will listen if it makes sense.. it's literally all about the situation and the circumstances.

If someone's sick, Chopper is gonna start giving out orders left and right and both Luffy and Zoro and any other SH are going to follow those orders without any debate.

If it's navigation, obviously Nami (always does this anyways) will start giving out orders for what each SH should do.. every SH listens and follows the orders.. or "commands" as the thread title says..

It goes Etc. Etc. for literally every SH..

If the situation calls for it, any SH can be 2nd in command, with Luffy's command being the ONLY ONE who would still come first no matter what. (As long as it follows character of course.)


So yeah, Zoro is the First Mate.

But the StrawHats do not have only one crewmember considered as "2nd in command".

Using your logic, the Rayleigh wouldn't be the vice captain of the Roger Pirates if the crew did what the navigator told them to do in order to avoid weather problems, just like what Nami does with the SH crew.

 

[LBeezy]

What does a first mate mean, then?

I thought you, and I, and another member or so had this conversation.. because I didn't fully know myself.. so I thought we all agreed on OPverse having both.. a First Mate and a Vice Captain. Cause when I asked you guys in another thread, someone gave me a Wikipedia definition of what a First Mate is.. but our world's definition of it doesn't have to be the same thing as the OP World.. plus not to mention meanings getting lost in translation.

What I'm about to say isn't factual definitions.. just my opinion on what I thought these meant..

A First Mate is the first member to join the crew.

A Vice Captain is 2nd in charge above all other crew members.

A Vice Captain CAN be the First Mate.. but doesn't HAVE to be..

Just like a First Mate CAN also be the Vice Captain..

Except a crew does not NEED to have a VC.. as seen with the SH's.. but as long as a Pirate captain adds one crewmember, that crewmember automatically is the FM..


Help me out though if I'm wrong with something..

First mate and 2nd in command are same things...This is not a debate who joined first.

See what I just wrote above please.. I thought in the OPverse the two could be different..? Idk for sure though..

Using your logic, the Rayleigh wouldn't be the vice captain of the Roger Pirates if the crew did what the navigator told them to do in order to avoid weather problems, just like what Nami does with the SH crew.

Not really... cause if Rayleigh is 100% known as "2nd in command" like you say, then if Roger isn't around and their navigator says to do something, but Rayleigh says to everyone "No! Dont do that." then the rest of the crew should listen to him. If he truly is "2nd in command" like you say.

Thats a scenario that only Oda can tell us what would happen.

But with the SH's we know there's no one crewmember who's "2nd in command".. after Luffy, they're all equal as far as "commands" go..

 

[RJ22BIG]

First mate is the first to join the crew vice captain is second in command that can be given to the most reliable crewmember to be acting captain when the captain is not in a position to lead.