Hebi Sasuke>>Sage Mode Naruto
- Thread starter Guntah
- Start date
- Status
Never claimed Naruto was slow, but he is nowhere near Hebi Sasuke, who is faster than his MS outing as well. The guy dodged several hypersonic shockwaves. Where is a comparable feat from Naruto in SM?
Are you seriously comparing Rinnegan-path summons to ... an ordinary ninja?
You do realize that Sasuke makes a comment that Naruto was gathering massive amount of chakra before? Right before this, actually. His seal was also open then.
Not even KCM Naruto could accomplish it. No ninja has. You will have to actually bring out evidence to back this up, and something outside Rinnegan path-centric summons this time.
It would have dodged it. No one claimed it could have survived it. My argument is speed here.
Do you actually think one tiny Rasangan can do this, when Deidara launched it directly at Sasuke to "clip his" wings (they are guided birds as Sasuke states in one of these scans); it literally directly hit him?
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Rasengan producing even 5% of that destructive force is obtuse logic. It ain't happening.
Much faster. Shockwaves from clay-based explosives are above hypersonic. Even if I make it hypersonic, that's still too damn fast. Naruto in SM has produced no feat that is anywhere near it. Not even close. And Sasuke dodged them consecutively (the highest tier one as well):
One easy dodge (All of these are C2 blasts):
Second and Third Easy dodges - he jumped up and then used CS2 to guard himself against the mines:
C4 easy dodge:
^ He dodged all of that in base, then used CS2 somewhere and flew up to strike Deidara.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Second and Third Easy dodges - he jumped up and then used CS2 to guard himself against the mines:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
C4 easy dodge:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^ He dodged all of that in base, then used CS2 somewhere and flew up to strike Deidara.
Here is more reflex action speed as well for CQC:
I'll simply copy-paste my post from another thread:
And guess what? Sasuke was holding back the entire time.
Naruto has no ability to expel pure Natural energy from his body. None at all. If he had excess energy to expel, he will turn into a toad. That's Senjutsu.
Orochimaru - straight up led a Sanin into a trap and he never saw it coming:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Made a chum out of Root's head:
Danzo (only meant the 12 year old part for Orochimaru):
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You think Naruto of all the people can fool Sasuke; the guy with the best analytical feats in the entire manga? Good luck with proving that.
He did, right when he was telling Bee to avoid Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.
Eh, what? He caught Deidara in a genjutsu, twice:
He caught Deidara in a Genjutsu from this far away, as he notices the bombs here, sees the effects and then puts Deidara in genjutsu that shows him dying in the exact same manner:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Second time, it's here:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
The distance is over 30 feet, even the second time. Deidara was caught in Genjutsu both times. As he saw exactly what Sasuke wanted him to see. Naruto is nowhere near as smart as Deidara; a guy who whooped Gaara's ass without knowing anything about his gourd abilities. He literally analyzed them in a second or two.
Even he couldn't avoid Sharingan. Naruto has no chance.
Last edited:
Why not? How do Animal Path's summonings difer from a normal ninja's in terms of simple summoning other than not requiring blood? Furthermoret is confirmed that one can summon multiple animals in one go normally after all. In the very first showcasing of someone summoning an animal.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Naruto also said right before he summoned Gamabunta that he was running low on chakra, and even then, he managed to pull off summoning the toad boss then. That was long after he'd built up his chakra on the clones and called upon chakra from the Kyuubi, so neither can be accounted for here, just pure pressure, willpower and his chakra reserves.
You must be registered for see images
As for speed feats....hm...well, upon research the best speed feat I could find for Sage Mode Naruto was not his, but a clone's while using Sage Mode, and its not as much speed as it is sheer agility. That's when he dodged the Lightning Armored Third Raikage's strongest attack at point blank, and the Third Raikage's best speed feat would be dodging Naruto's own Rasenshuriken at point blank range as it was inches from hitting him.
And to that we fall on the Rasenshuriken's speed. I found a couple calculations online based on how it travelled over the Chibaku Tensei's creater in less than a full second. Calculations varied, but the consensus in between them was that the Rasenshuriken travelled well above the minimum hypersonic speed. The lowest I found it to be was Mach 9. But here's the problem: Deva Path dodged it. The very same Deva Path that is not a very speed-based fighter dodged, with the help of two clones, the hypersonic speed Rasenshuriken when it was a couple meters from him in a fraction of a second.
So, you see, bringing real world logic into the Naruto world such as the speed of a clay bomb exploding really makes things confusing. If you want to, sure, but we're in for a ride then. Just sayin'.
Now onto the Rasengan.
My problem with that scan is that Sasuke clearly defended himself with a wing, that's the biggest defense he has in CS2. From his very first use of this mode, he's always defended himself with his wings.
You must be registered for see images
So judging what Sasuke can tank by what he can tank with his wing blocking the blast is like judging a Bijuu's strength by its tail's. Its the strongest part of its body, so clearly it will do better.
What I'm talking about is a dead on hit like what happened with the Ashura Path. His wing could tank a normal Rasengan, sure, though a larger one could pose more a threat, but that's another topic. A dead on hit however, would clearly do some damage.
And...this....
...no...just no.
I mean, sure, he wasn't hitting as hard because he didn't want to kill Deidara, he wanted info on Itachi, but how does that affect what we're discussing? We're discussing about what he can tank and his speed, there is no reason at all for him to hold back on those. I don't even think its possible to hold back on the former's case.
Forgive me, that was my fault on wording it wrong. I meant Sasuke not being able to sense the incoming Nature Energy that is affected by his use of Frog Kata. I'll take a quote from the wiki to explain my point, it will do more justice to what I'm trying to say.
"When using Frog Kata, the natural energy used by the practitioner to create senjutsu chakra also surrounds the user in an aura of that same natural energy. This aura can act as an extension of their body and cannot be seen by anyone other than those who have trained in senjutsu. By utilising the aura, the user can extend the range and force of their physical attacks. Strikes that seemingly or would normally miss will actually make contact with the target. Only users of Sage Mode can see or sense this aura's extension. Nothing else, not even the Rinnegan can see it. One punch has been shown to have enough force to cripple and completely finish off an opponent, not unlike Chakra Enhanced Strength."
I'll give you credit, Sasuke is really good at those kind of things.
However, the Sharingan has limits. One of its biggest weaknesses is the fact that, aside from Madara's, no Sharingan can see through the Shadow Clone Technique, Naruto's signature jutsu. The simple fact of the matter is that no matter how good Sasuke is with his eyes, when Naruto makes a clone, its impossible for him to tell without guessing which is the original and which is the fake.
And that opens up a lot of possibilities.
Well, yeah. This doesn't come into play though, its still a one on one match, so he doesn't have to keep an eye out to warn anyone of Amaterasu other than his summons, which would simply be dispelled if the flames hit, so there's not that much risk.
Well, the first one he avoided it, I already showed you that.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
The second one though, fair game.
Its not about being smart though. Its about the fact that Naruto knows not to look into his opponent's eyes and the fact that, when using Sage Mode, he doesn't have to. It predicts what is coming at him and he can know where Sasuke is with his sensing, so he doesn't have to see where its coming from. Deidara didn't have that, or else he would've avoided looking at Sasuke's eyes and instead favored his sensing like Naruto would in this scenario. He has an advantage.
Why do people always talk about how naruto couldn't beat pain tendowitch he did no matter how he did?? So this most mean that y'all think sasuke can because I can't really see any form beating it but his rinnegan form 1on1
Tsukikami Uchiha
Member
I don't even know where to start. First EVERY Sharingan can see through shadow clone jutsu, Sasuke did on the hospital rooftop. Look it up I'm on mobile, other thing is Sasuke is fast and smart, so yeah Naruto will sense his position but can't do anything against the speed of his attack, one more thing is Sasuke can counter all summons with his own. FRS takes time to prep so is out like kirinNatural energy is chakra so the wiki is wrong, Itachi saw senjutsu in Kabuto meaning sharingan perceives it too, Rinnegan doesn't have the perception of Sharingan.Sasuke will be hit by kata once, use ORO body switch and be the wiser. Chidori sword or senbon can then end things from a distance, or be a distraction for him to taijutsu a killer blow.
Sage Mode can react to speeds faster than Hebi Sasuke(3rd Raikage, FTG). Also his jutsus are far more powerful and his body is stronger. He cant break frog sound genjutsu. And no he cant find the real one if Naruto splits hos chakra evenly. Also, Ma & Pa collab jutsu with Naruto is overkill along with Gamabunta. Frog Kata also can 1shot humans if Sasuke is in base and not curse mark form. He cannot see that attack coming. My standpoint is tgat Naruto is fused with Ma & Pa so Genjutsu shouldnt work especially since Sasuke's isnt that great. Sage Mode Naruto has formidable speed also blitzing and 1shotting a Pain while it was jet rocketting to Tsunade.
LORD D AIZEN
Member
lets just be fair here SM naruto reks hebi sasuke......all sasuke have in this fight is gen as far i see sage mode boost may be limited but the boost is good enough to beat sasuke high diff if not lower.
i would under if it was MS sasuke but come on peeps hebi lol
SM naruto has physical strength, speed, stamina, reflexes and durability>hebi sasuke......perception=sharigan in my case.
hebi sasuke has curse seal boost which is not comparable to SM boost.
i would under if it was MS sasuke but come on peeps hebi lol
SM naruto has physical strength, speed, stamina, reflexes and durability>hebi sasuke......perception=sharigan in my case.
hebi sasuke has curse seal boost which is not comparable to SM boost.
LORD D AIZEN
Member
somewhere in a post i saw were people were saying larger chakra pool doesn't mean your stronger...!?
hashi woop madara with his large reserves tho
if naruto didn't have the reserves he did he would get rek'd be alot of people.....if kakashi or damn itachi's pool and stamina were anywhere near madara well the solo trolls would probably never stop lol
but basically what i'm saying is that a larger pool does count.
hashi woop madara with his large reserves tho
if naruto didn't have the reserves he did he would get rek'd be alot of people.....if kakashi or damn itachi's pool and stamina were anywhere near madara well the solo trolls would probably never stop lol
but basically what i'm saying is that a larger pool does count.
You guys are debating over something that can't possibly happen. Not all flukes can learn Sage Mode. It can only be learned by people with immense chakra resilience. Jiraiya had high reserves, Naruto had high reserves, Minato's reserves was weak and so his SM is not complete but he is a genius like Itachi who could actually pull off anything, Kabuto needed ORO's chakra to use SM. so there you have it, Sasuke does not have the chakra reserves to learn SM so this debate is null and void.
Liquid Snake
Active member
Tsukikami Uchiha
Member
Stomped.. Is that what Deidera, and Orochimaru did? stomp him? who knew suicide and crying as you loose equates to stomping the one who does that to you. you learn something new everyday.. He was on par with Itachi, Genjutsu, speed, ninjutsu wise.. Only cos Itachi is a Solo God did he loose.
War arc SM naruto is powerful yes, he is very fast, and he does have strength, but let's not forget Hebi Sasuke also has monstrous strength, and speed due to the mutation (increase in potency) of his chakra done by CM. He was strong enough to tank Juugo's attacks, ans we have no reason to think he trained after obtaining MS, cos the MS version of him was able to react to the Raikage in version two, and let's not forget CM also boosts his speed so that should say something on its own. The two are either equals, or Sasuke still takes it in this case. MS Sasuke and KCM Sasuke are equals.
Don't believe me then look at one: the moment he suppressed Kyuubi with a mere 3 tomoe sharingan
Two: when Obito genjutsud and released kyuubi from Kushina with MS.
Plot armour aside Sasuke can end the fight (Naruto inclusive) by taking his beast into Genjutsu using MS, or surpressing its chakra, and then doing the same to Naruto nd ending him.
Or he could (in EMS Sasuke vs BM Naruto) release the beast under genjutsu (no seal protection to save him from it being pulled out) an watch Naruto die of natural causes while sipping tea with Kyuubi.
And I asked for a scan. Your claim that people bar animal path can summon them, is just that, a claim. No ninja has been able to summon more than one largest creature avaliable more than once. And your analogy is faulty. This is a path. A path connected to Rinnegan. Let's get real here.
So, you basically ended up proving me that he was out of chakra then and drew on Kurama's in its stead? There is so such thing as "will power" summoning. I mean, come on! And let's face it, how many times has Naruto summoned a large summon on his own?
Third is not even remotely as fast as Ae. This can be easily proven by two things: one, Shee makes no reference of Third's speed. In fact, he puts Ae's non-cloaked speed at Minato's level and his cloaked (without the Bijuu level reserves augmentation) well above Minato. That is in the Viz translation of the page. You can look at it yourself.
Two, no one managed to not intercept the guy's movements. Literally no one. Sure, once he ran midst the ninjas, no one could react, but they all put up walls before he reached them. Not to mention Dodai made the ballon and grabbed Naruto when Raikage was at point blank range:
You must be registered for see images
A fodder, a nobody with no speed feats managed to make handseals, create a ballon and take Naruto to safety when that guy is about 10 feet away. When people like Jugo in full CS2 armor (that gives them 10 times their original power), Bee and KCM NAruto (he's slower than SM Naruto, though bar that one miracle escape) were being punched around like ragdolls. Bee makes no comparisons between their speeds as well. 3rd is nowhere near as fast as 4th. Not even close.
And, no disrespect intended, but that is not how Mach number is calculated. Those people who think it's moving at hyper sonic speed need to get acquainted with physics. Their calculations are laughable. Where did they get that number from anyway? Not to mention the scene where Deva stabbed two clones, who sat still, then lunged at him. He evaded and stabbed them with black rods and they thudded down. He dodged FRS afterwards. So, let me guess, all of that was happening at well above mach 80 or something? I mean, only then it is possible for FRS to move at that speed.
No, real world logic works here as Clay based explosives and their detonation velocities are a real thing. C1, C2, C3 etc. they all exist. And guess what their primary ingredient and Deidara's is? That's right. It's clay! Real logic applies to where it has been used. Even the clay molding scans from the manga are exactly the same as it's molded in real life. Quite literally.
So, Sasuke moving at above mach 20 to easily outspeed the velocity of the blast is an incredible feat. Something Naruto doesn't even compare to. He has produced nothing that is anywhere near it. Deidara constantly comments that it is difficult to catch him, and he keeps upping the blast radius. Why? Because Sasuke was proving too fast for the shockwave of the blast.
What differene would that make? You think a Clay bomb is only lethal if it goes off on someone? You cannot be serious! Look at the size of that blast and rocks flying up. You think a Rasengan can even accomplish that? All Rasengans of medium to small sizees have done is tear up soft ground in case of Minato, and that's it. That thing isn't even denting Sasuke's CS2 armour. Also, Naruto will have to catch him first.
Incoming NE doesn't affect FK in any manner. FK is simply an explusion of Senjutsu from the pores. Naruto cannot keep extra NE into his system nor can he manipulate it in any manner outside his body. He has no such ability. That is how he managed to break that rod as well. Wikia is not a credible source. As I said, Naruto has no such ability to manipulate NE in an area. Only Kabuto does.
Actually, he said that because no one had EMS in his time or afterwards. He was talking about EMS, not any other form of Sharingan. You misread his statement as he was talking about Mokuton Bunshins not Kage Bunshins. He doesn't have to tell as Sasuke is one of the smartest tactitians in the manga. Remember what he did at the rooftop?
He didn't avoid it. He trained his eye to tell him if he was in Genjutsu. He saw the whole thing. So that means the Genjutsu was successful.
Naruto has shown no CQC prowess like Gai to fight without looking at an individual. You are treading into the non-canon domain here. If you have any scan of Naruto doing that, then show it. Anyhow, keep your replies short, concise and to the point. I don't come here often. And if this drags on, I'll simply drop this debate.
Last edited:
Liquid Snake
Active member
Lmao really kid? Ms sasuke I'm not even gonna say hebi because he's fodder was stomped by killer bee he was even writing rhymes on them and tanked juugos atk in base so tanking juugos atk is nothing . Sasuke beat a no armed oro it was even stated that had oro had his arms he would have stomped sasuke. Diedra had a handicap because sasuke was the embodiment of his weakness that guaranteed his win yet he still almost died and was out of chakra pathetic .and didn't sasuke cry from Itachi lol.and who cares if he reacted to 4th raikage he still was stomped to the ground and ran.and ay was not on 3rd raikage lvl he even said that and Naruto beat him In SM . Also had not Obito told sasuke to get bk and set the stage for Sasuke Danzo would have killed sasuke. Then he struggled mightily against kakashi who was no match for one pain who naruto beat with the other pains there then proceeded to change nagato. And it is proven indra's eyes don't work on Ashura as Madara couldn't affect hashi and none of Sasukes eye techs work on Naruto so ur genjutsu claim is beyond stupid and baseless just fanfic.also kushinas seal was weak and Obito was amped by Madara try again dumbass . Sasuke no longer has cm so stop the shit. Also kcm naruto completely stomps ms sasuke EMS sasuke might stand a chance but bm and bsm naruto are leagues ahead of EMS seen in the war arc when naruto was fighting and protecting everyone including sasuke then it was Naruto's jutsu and connections that created an opening in obitos shield also his senjutsu because Sasuke's attacks EMS sasuke at that were ineffective . So Sasuke is complete fodder until rinnegan was given to him . U see he hid his true intentions until he thought naruto was weakened and he had rinnegan so stop the foolishness dumbass
L-ol typical fap retort.
How does one lose an objective tie? :flakez:
How does one win by scraping out a draw for the first time in life? :kk:
600+ chapters and the MC never achieved a definitive win on Le Sauce
But I digress.. the True fire shadow m'Lord Crow solos all anyhows :bdpf:
- Status