[VS] Mihawk vs Issho(Fujitaro) speculation thread

[ssjelf]

This just confirms what I said even more. The fact that Sengoku is only surprised that WB can produce that much power once he lost his face and not at any time earlier indicates the illness didn't affect him at all. It also shows that injuries in all likelihood don't affect his powers.

I agree. Wb really didn't lose power. But I don't agree that doffy did. After being attacked with G4 doffy was still producing some of his strongest attacks. There is no evidence that luffy blocked them because doffy was weaker, rather luffy got stronger in G4. The birdcage for instance, actually got stronger farther into the fight.

 

[Punk Hazard]

My bad, I was talking about Sengoku's statement about Negate having enough power to split the ground, despite loosing half of his head. Irrc, Sengoku had no idea about Whitebeard's illness when he said that his power could destroy the world. Nonetheless, the statement directly implies his condition does have an impact on his devils fruit power.

It actually doesn't. The fact that Sengoku surmised that losing his face should have negatively impacted his DF power, and it then it ended up not doing so just shows WB's Quakes can carry potency regardless of the damage to his body. Which makes sense, since all he has to do is wave his arm or weapon to release the Quakes.

I agree. Wb really didn't lose power. But I don't agree that doffy did. After being attacked with G4 doffy was still producing some of his strongest attacks. There is no evidence that luffy blocked them because doffy was weaker, rather luffy got stronger in G4. The birdcage for instance, actually got stronger farther into the fight.

I'm no longer as inclined to Doffy's strings getting weaker as much as I am to Luffy's change in shape and volume caused the strings to break at this point to be very honest.

 

[ssjelf]

It actually doesn't. The fact that Sengoku surmised that losing his face should have negatively impacted his DF power, and it then it ended up not doing so just shows WB's Quakes can carry potency regardless of the damage to his body. Which makes sense, since all he has to do is wave his arm or weapon to release the Quakes.


I'm no longer as inclined to Doffy's strings getting weaker as much as I am to Luffy's change in shape and volume caused the strings to break at this point to be very honest.

Referring to parasite? Or his attacks in general?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Referring to parasite? Or his attacks in general?

Parasite.

 

[HashiraMadara SenjUchiha]

True but the marines also had a huge advantage in the arena. They set up for that defense in advance because they knew a war was coming. The walls being deployed is a good exampe, because of those walls a large portion of WB's forces were killed forcing WB to take a primary role ultimately causing his death. Had he been able to hang back, things might have turned out somewhat differently. I do agree though that the marines did beat them back pretty well though.

But unless the marines are hiding a force equal to that at marineford in the new world. There is no way they can take on all the yonkou at once. Each Yonkou themselves could fight an admiral and with their first mates/calamities etc they could beat the admirals. Without doubt the marines have less numbers than the yonkous combined too. They are pretty outmatched in firepower, they haven't lost control though because non of the yonkou want the others to gain power. The marines are also not alone in their effort. CP helps and so does the shichibukai.

If the yonkou could be defeated individually by the navy, why havent they done so? And better yet, if the marines could take on all the yonkou and win, why havent they done so? Answer: because the marines cant, with the WG and CP and the shichibukai it has turned into a big stalemate. So how havent they been beaten yet if the marines could do it by themselves let alone with the help of the WG shichibukai and CP?

You're forgetting about the Shichibukai who were just playing around In the war :|

 

[ssjelf]

You're forgetting about the Shichibukai who were just playing around In the war :|

I was more specifically contrasting the marines to the yonkou. The marines balance all four yonkou because the yonkou aren't allies but also because they have the shichibukai. Without them they can't win. The comparison I was making was yonkou vs marines not including the shichibukai.

 

[HashiraMadara]

I was more specifically contrasting the marines to the yonkou. The marines balance all four yonkou because the yonkou aren't allies but also because they have the shichibukai. Without them they can't win. The comparison I was making was yonkou vs marines not including the shichibukai.

Oh, that's better. I thought your were one of those that say Shichibukai + WG < Yonko

 

[ssjelf]

Oh, that's better. I thought your were one of those that say Shichibukai + WG < Yonko

If the yonkou worked together I still think they win though because the balance stands with a divided set of yonkou who won't help each other except shanks ended up helping WB's crew I suppose although kaido tried to hurt WBs crew. The way I see it, a contiguous force of yonkou would be extremely difficult to defeat. I find it hard to believe that even with all the marines gathered in one spot and all shichibukai actually fighting that the marines could win. Just imagine 4 times as many of WBs forces at marineford.

But all this is pre skip idea of the balance. As it currently stands the balance no longer exists and it remains to be seen who will rule the sees. Doffy points this out during his talk with Tsuru. So all of what Garp said about the balance don't really hold true anymore. The yonkou have a new member, the shichibukai are being replaced and defeated, the marines have gotten stronger. New forces like luffy's exist, etc. I don't think we can just say they balance each other anymore after doffys speech.

 

[HashiraMadara]

If the yonkou worked together I still think they win though because the balance stands with a divided set of yonkou who won't help each other except shanks ended up helping WB's crew I suppose although kaido tried to hurt WBs crew. The way I see it, a contiguous force of yonkou would be extremely difficult to defeat. I find it hard to believe that even with all the marines gathered in one spot and all shichibukai actually fighting that the marines could win. Just imagine 4 times as many of WBs forces at marineford.

But all this is pre skip idea of the balance. As it currently stands the balance no longer exists and it remains to be seen who will rule the sees. Doffy points this out during his talk with Tsuru. So all of what Garp said about the balance don't really hold true anymore. The yonkou have a new member, the shichibukai are being replaced and defeated, the marines have gotten stronger. New forces like luffy's exist, etc. I don't think we can just say they balance each other anymore after doffys speech.

Imagine Shichibukai fighting seriously + CP 0 where Lucci is stated to be the weakest amongst + Marines + Gorosei(hyped)

 

[ssjelf]

Imagine Shichibukai fighting seriously + CP 0 where Lucci is stated to be the weakest amongst + Marines + Gorosei(hyped)

I wasn't including any CP or gorosei. They fall under world government and exist outside of the balance garp spoke of I think.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Imagine Shichibukai fighting seriously + CP 0 where Lucci is stated to be the weakest amongst + Marines + Gorosei(hyped)

When was Lucci stated to be the weakest in CP0?

 

[Punk Hazard]

When was Lucci stated to be the weakest in CP0?

Never. He was in fact stated to be the strongest CP9 agent ever, which is the only statement made bearing any semblance to what he said.

 

[HashiraMadara]

Never. He was in fact stated to be the strongest CP9 agent ever, which is the only statement made bearing any semblance to what he said.

When was Lucci stated to be the weakest in CP0?

He left CP9 to join CP0 the strongest CP squad. He is the weakest in the CP0

 

[HashiraMadara]

I wasn't including any CP or gorosei. They fall under world government and exist outside of the balance garp spoke of I think.

Garp meant Shichibukai + WG + Yonko balance each other out. WG = 10 CP squads + Gorosei + Marines

 

[arv993]

Garp meant Shichibukai + WG + Yonko balance each other out. WG = 10 CP squads + Gorosei + Marines

The yonko grew stronger also as you see big mam has strong allies and Kaido has a whole elite country in his command in th new world. And WG has other parties to deal with such as revolutionaries too. WG is in trouble if yonkos ally themselves but that won't happen. And schibukai are being taken down. It seems the balance tips in yonko's favor but like doffy said it's anybody's game now.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

He left CP9 to join CP0 the strongest CP squad. He is the weakest in the CP0

Spandam is also in CP0. Is Spandam>Lucci now?

 

[Punk Hazard]

He left CP9 to join CP0 the strongest CP squad. He is the weakest in the CP0

How does this mean he's the weakest member of CP0? Kaku and Spandam are both in CP0 as well you know.

 

[ssjelf]

Garp meant Shichibukai + WG + Yonko balance each other out. WG = 10 CP squads + Gorosei + Marines

That isn't what he said

 

[HashiraMadara]

How does this mean he's the weakest member of CP0? Kaku and Spandam are both in CP0 as well you know.

Never heard about Kaku joining CP0 though...

Spandum is not a fighter. When Lucci was CP9 It was stated CP0 was the strongest way >>> than CP9 by common sense means Lucci is much in front of CP0 agents.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Never heard about Kaku joining CP0 though...

Spandum is not a fighter. When Lucci was CP9 It was stated CP0 was the strongest way >>> than CP9 by common sense means Lucci is much in front of CP0 agents.

The page where Lucci was talking on the Den Den Mushi. There was a note that the person on the other line was speaking in the same unique speech pattern that Oda uses for Kaku, and only Kaku.

That was never stated. CP0 wasn't mentioned until Dressrosa. What WAS said, was that Lucci's generation of CP9 was the strongest one to ever exist.