And how does that correlate to SM Naruto being unable to instantly summon Gamabunta or any of the Boss Toads?
sasuke doesn't need to keep up SM naruto. It's naruto who can't keep up with someone who dodged deidara radius bombs. Also why are you praising deva pain? Base fatigue naruto held his own in CQC long enough to return in sage mode. Not impressive
Base Naruto was on the defensive which is why he could perform as well as he did. You making this claim is like claiming how DB2 Naruto could compete with DB2 Sasuke in Taijutsu even though that was because Naruto was on the defensive:
You must be registered for see links
Why I used Deva Path as an example was because Kakashi couldn't overwhelm Deva Path with Taijutsu and resorted to a Doton Wall in order to do so and he has superior Taijutsu stats and comparable speed in CQC compared to Hebi Sasuke. SM Jiraiya was significantly above that to the point where he can trash either Path in Taijutsu in 1v1 and SM Naruto is even above that. CS2 wouldn't grant the user a boost comparable to that nor has that been implied and shown in Shippuden.
Nice fanfic. It's pts cs2 that drains alot of stamina.
the reason he was low against itachi was from using that lion fire barrage whatever it's called to set up kirin and orochi substitution.
No, this has always been the case. The Cursed Seal forcibly releases more of the user's chakra all at once which is that form cannot be maintained for that long, hence why he refrains from using it. It gives a good boost in stats, but drains the user's chakra considerably which is why it's used for shorter periods of time as shown in the manga.
any things below MS sasuke and any version of SM naruto trashes that.. Sasuke had MS and obito and zetsu still thought SM naruto was stronger but i guess by feats they are comparable... hebi sasuke loses mid diff at best.. he literally has nothing on SM naruto and naruto can simply toy with him till he decides to finish him off...
And how does that correlate to SM Naruto being unable to instantly summon Gamabunta or any of the Boss Toads?
Base Naruto was on the defensive which is why he could perform as well as he did. You making this claim is like claiming how DB2 Naruto could compete with DB2 Sasuke in Taijutsu even though that was because Naruto was on the defensive:
You must be registered for see links
Why I used Deva Path as an example was because Kakashi couldn't overwhelm Deva Path with Taijutsu and resorted to a Doton Wall in order to do so and he has superior Taijutsu stats and comparable speed in CQC compared to Hebi Sasuke. SM Jiraiya was significantly above that to the point where he can trash either Path in Taijutsu in 1v1 and SM Naruto is even above that. CS2 wouldn't grant the user a boost comparable to that nor has that been implied and shown in Shippuden.
No, this has always been the case. The Cursed Seal forcibly releases more of the user's chakra all at once which is that form cannot be maintained for that long, hence why he refrains from using it. It gives a good boost in stats, but drains the user's chakra considerably which is why it's used for shorter periods of time as shown in the manga.
Lmao then kakashi cqc became a joke If you really think overtaking them in tai is a feat. Otherwise tired base naruto > healthy 3T kakashi.
You must be registered for see images
Where as 3T sasuke couldn't beat killer bee but still held his own against someone whose CQC is above pain. And mind you that this sasuke is still injured after his bout with itachi.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
As for tanking frog kata, you say he will drop sasuke in 5mins. You really think some ridiculous tai can do more dmg than this? Lol
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^
His speed and durability comforts me enough to know that dodging and tanking SM naruto won't be an major issue and will aid to shortening his NE limit for sauce to take the win.
You must be registered for see images
SM is superior no doubt but its pain arc restrictions completely favors sasuke to no end.
> clone limits
> limit amount of nin usage before NE is empty
> no long range except the dodgeable FRS
> smoke bombs useless
> frogs slow as ****. If deva can hop over them then sasuke can too but better.
> genjutsu forcing naruto to rely in senses instead of sight.possibly dragging the fight out which again favors sasuke.
Sasuke wins for 3 reasons
1. Speed and durability to outlast from getting one shotted
2. SM limitations
3. Has mid-long range advantage.
Sasuke can't stay in his Hebi Form longer than Naruto can stay in his SM form. It drains his chakra and life force heavily. Hebi Sasuke gets trashed. MS Sasuke would be a better match-up even though i think he still loses because Naruto can outlast MS too.
I refuted this. He was on the defensive whereas Pain was on the offensive, hence why Naruto performed as well as he did. We saw Part 1 Naruto manage to fight Part 1 Sasuke in Taijutsu because Sasuke was on the offensive and Naruto was on the defensive. Saying Kakashi's CQC is a joke is intellectually dishonest because his speed is within Sasuke's Tier of Speed and his Taijutsu is 2 Tiers above Hebi Sasuke's along with the fact that he has superior speed feats than Base Naruto does such as blitzing Kakuzu who couldn't even sense his presence. If anything, that cements the fact that Base Naruto performed as well as he did because he was on the defensive the entire time whereas both Kakashi and Deva Path when both fought were exchanging blows and fighting offensively. Clearly different circumstances.
Where as 3T sasuke couldn't beat killer bee but still held his own against someone whose CQC is above pain. And mind you that this sasuke is still injured after his bout with itachi.
I agree, but Sasuke was on the defensive which is why he could perform as well as he did. He never really amounted much against Bee at all and while Sasuke was Weakened, we have no indication of how powerful he was relative to his Hebi incarnation because Sasuke did improve through the Mangekyo which does strengthen his own chakras even further.
As for tanking frog kata, you say he will drop sasuke in 5mins. You really think some ridiculous tai can do more dmg than this? Lol
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^
His speed and durability comforts me enough to know that dodging and tanking SM naruto won't be an major issue and will aid to shortening his NE limit for sauce to take the win.
He tanked it with his wing and his wings are definitely the most durable and defensive part of his body. A direct hit to the face is going to cripple him.
You must be registered for see images
SM is superior no doubt but its pain arc restrictions completely favors sasuke to no end.
> clone limits
> limit amount of nin usage before NE is empty
> no long range except the dodgeable FRS
> smoke bombs useless
> frogs slow as ****. If deva can hop over them then sasuke can too but better.
> genjutsu forcing naruto to rely in senses instead of sight.possibly dragging the fight out which again favors sasuke.
Clone limits were never a restriction because they provided Naruto with a significant advantage as well and to be honest, I think you're truly underestimating Naruto if you think FRS is useless. Naruto's never going to employ FRS from a long range because that's stupid, but he easily has the tools needed to land it on Sasuke with Ma's Dust Storm and Clone Feints or even an FRS Shadow Shuriken. Genjutsu isn't really hindering Naruto that much because he's displayed the ability to fight effectively when his LoS was hindered considerably and Sage Sensing plays a very vital role in how reflexive SM Naruto is, so Genjutsu shouldn't really be an issue. He's got the knowledge and the tools to simply avoid eye-contact altogether.
Sasuke wins for 3 reasons
1. Speed and durability to outlast from getting one shotted
2. SM limitations
3. Has mid-long range advantage.
CS2 drains Sasuke's chakra considerably and Naruto has 15 minutes worth of Sage Mode at most seeing how this is Pain Arc SM Naruto. CS2 Sasuke does not have comparable speed to SM Naruto. Jiraiya literally has comparable speed, but greater Taijutsu than Hebi Sasuke and received a far bigger boost in speed than CS2 Hebi Sasuke and SM Naruto is even above SM Jiraiya. CS2 Hebi Sasuke doesn't have comparable speed to SM Naruto and he doesn't have the durability to tank a Frog Kata straight to the face. Using the destructive capabilities of C2 doesn't prove it because not only did he withstand the brunt of C2 with his wing, but using C2 as an example is implying that CS2 Sasuke can tank hits from Raikage or Tsunade low-diff which is clearly faulty logic.
I refuted this. He was on the defensive whereas Pain was on the offensive, hence why Naruto performed as well as he did. We saw Part 1 Naruto manage to fight Part 1 Sasuke in Taijutsu because Sasuke was on the offensive and Naruto was on the defensive. Saying Kakashi's CQC is a joke is intellectually dishonest because his speed is within Sasuke's Tier of Speed and his Taijutsu is 2 Tiers above Hebi Sasuke's along with the fact that he has superior speed feats than Base Naruto does such as blitzing Kakuzu who couldn't even sense his presence. If anything, that cements the fact that Base Naruto performed as well as he did because he was on the defensive the entire time whereas both Kakashi and Deva Path when both fought were exchanging blows and fighting offensively. Clearly different circumstances.
I agree, but Sasuke was on the defensive which is why he could perform as well as he did. He never really amounted much against Bee at all and while Sasuke was Weakened, we have no indication of how powerful he was relative to his Hebi incarnation because Sasuke did improve through the Mangekyo which does strengthen his own chakras even further.
He tanked it with his wing and his wings are definitely the most durable and defensive part of his body. A direct hit to the face is going to cripple him.
Clone limits were never a restriction because they provided Naruto with a significant advantage as well and to be honest, I think you're truly underestimating Naruto if you think FRS is useless. Naruto's never going to employ FRS from a long range because that's stupid, but he easily has the tools needed to land it on Sasuke with Ma's Dust Storm and Clone Feints or even an FRS Shadow Shuriken. Genjutsu isn't really hindering Naruto that much because he's displayed the ability to fight effectively when his LoS was hindered considerably and Sage Sensing plays a very vital role in how reflexive SM Naruto is, so Genjutsu shouldn't really be an issue. He's got the knowledge and the tools to simply avoid eye-contact altogether.
Ma and Pa aren't restricted.
CS2 drains Sasuke's chakra considerably and Naruto has 15 minutes worth of Sage Mode at most seeing how this is Pain Arc SM Naruto. CS2 Sasuke does not have comparable speed to SM Naruto. Jiraiya literally has comparable speed, but greater Taijutsu than Hebi Sasuke and received a far bigger boost in speed than CS2 Hebi Sasuke and SM Naruto is even above SM Jiraiya. CS2 Hebi Sasuke doesn't have comparable speed to SM Naruto and he doesn't have the durability to tank a Frog Kata straight to the face. Using the destructive capabilities of C2 doesn't prove it because not only did he withstand the brunt of C2 with his wing, but using C2 as an example is implying that CS2 Sasuke can tank hits from Raikage or Tsunade low-diff which is clearly faulty logic.
> from all the debates I've read on any site, nothing about an inferior character lasting in a CQC because he played defensively. Pts sasuke played defensively and yet lee still thrashed him, same with gaara when sasuke was dogging him in the semi finals. And before you say speed gap is the reason then vote 1 is another example.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^ as you can clearly see, defensive play is meaningless if they're inferior. If taka sasuke and base naruto didnt get beat down like vote1 sasuke in secs then defensive play has nothing to with it. Also in this scan, sasuke quotes keeping his distance will keep him unharm. Well against SM it's highlight is CQC not mid-long range.
>curse seal, mind awakening pill, curse seal lvl 2 and orochi absorbed all enhanced sasuke's durability. He tested this all out against naruto in vote1 and TS which is my evidence.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
> since when frog kata dmg is on the same lvl as ay and tsunade? Because he Ko'ed some stupid rinne puppet that lacks durability enhance? Lol oh lawd. Sasuke curse seal 1 and 2 can tank it.
> i think you're underestimating hebi at its peak. And like i said in another old thread that fighting against itachi can make any foe look like a joke or overhyped even sannins.
> unlocking MS increases his weaker form stats? Lmao this isnt dbz. I mean i guess it's possible, i remember dantee saying rinnegan sasuke enabled sasuke to be stronger in CQC against madara which is why he sliced him in half. But idk, seems faulty.
> i don't remember any feats of any SM jira8ya and naruto being faster than hebi sasuke. I assume you're going to bring up 3rd raikage vs war arc SM naruto but sasuke did the similar feat with a faster opponent with his 3T.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
It cannot be a coincidence that kishi have sasuke dodge KB and Ay with 3T and not his newly aquired MS.
> smoke bombs and dust storm is meaningless. Sharingan can still see chakra in through debris. And unlike pain, sasuke knows how naruto tricks work in fact he even incorporates it against deidara and itachi with his shadow shuriken and luring foes to the bait with wire traps instead of clones.
> I've already established cs2 hebi sasuke does not drain as fast. His fight with deidara is proof of that. 15min sage mode is only valid if he doesnt use high tier rasengan jutsus like FRS which would drain his NE even faster.
> from all the debates I've read on any site, nothing about an inferior character lasting in a CQC because he played defensively. Pts sasuke played defensively and yet lee still thrashed him, same with gaara when sasuke was dogging him in the semi finals. And before you say speed gap is the reason then vote 1 is another example.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^ as you can clearly see, defensive play is meaningless if they're inferior. If taka sasuke and base naruto didnt get beat down like vote1 sasuke in secs then defensive play has nothing to with it. Also in this scan, sasuke quotes keeping his distance will keep him unharm. Well against SM it's highlight is CQC not mid-long range.
>curse seal, mind awakening pill, curse seal lvl 2 and orochi absorbed all enhanced sasuke's durability. He tested this all out against naruto in vote1 and TS which is my evidence.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
> since when frog kata dmg is on the same lvl as ay and tsunade? Because he Ko'ed some stupid rinne puppet that lacks durability enhance? Lol oh lawd. Sasuke curse seal 1 and 2 can tank it.
> i think you're underestimating hebi at its peak. And like i said in another old thread that fighting against itachi can make any foe look like a joke or overhyped even sannins.
> unlocking MS increases his weaker form stats? Lmao this isnt dbz. I mean i guess it's possible, i remember dantee saying rinnegan sasuke enabled sasuke to be stronger in CQC against madara which is why he sliced him in half. But idk, seems faulty.
> i don't remember any feats of any SM jira8ya and naruto being faster than hebi sasuke. I assume you're going to bring up 3rd raikage vs war arc SM naruto but sasuke did the similar feat with a faster opponent with his 3T.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
It cannot be a coincidence that kishi have sasuke dodge KB and Ay with 3T and not his newly aquired MS.
> smoke bombs and dust storm is meaningless. Sharingan can still see chakra in through debris. And unlike pain, sasuke knows how naruto tricks work in fact he even incorporates it against deidara and itachi with his shadow shuriken and luring foes to the bait with wire traps instead of clones.
> I've already established cs2 hebi sasuke does not drain as fast. His fight with deidara is proof of that. 15min sage mode is only valid if he doesnt use high tier rasengan jutsus like FRS which would drain his NE even faster.
Bold is completely wrong .
- Naruto has the feats of blitzing Asura path , from a very far distance , when all of pain's paths has shared vision
- Pain paths were able to keep up with SM jiraiya and dance around Kakashi , both SM jiraiya and Kakashi has more speed than Hebi Sasuke in the databook , yet those paths were getting smaked around against Naruto in CQC
- Rinnegan can also see chakra , that's why Pain was able to see the chakra barrier around konoha , but the Rinnegan couldn't see through smoke bombs or dust cloud , the only doujutsu that can do this is the Byakugan , remember Izuna has the sharingan but he couldn't see Tobirama behind the smoke and got killed
- Pain paths are durabe , Asura tanked a Raiton bunshin + Raikiri + Choza's giant fist + point blank shinra tensei and was still able to function .
> from all the debates I've read on any site, nothing about an inferior character lasting in a CQC because he played defensively. Pts sasuke played defensively and yet lee still thrashed him, same with gaara when sasuke was dogging him in the semi finals. And before you say speed gap is the reason then vote 1 is another example.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^ as you can clearly see, defensive play is meaningless if they're inferior. If taka sasuke and base naruto didnt get beat down like vote1 sasuke in secs then defensive play has nothing to with it. Also in this scan, sasuke quotes keeping his distance will keep him unharm. Well against SM it's highlight is CQC not mid-long range.
>curse seal, mind awakening pill, curse seal lvl 2 and orochi absorbed all enhanced sasuke's durability. He tested this all out against naruto in vote1 and TS which is my evidence.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
> since when frog kata dmg is on the same lvl as ay and tsunade? Because he Ko'ed some stupid rinne puppet that lacks durability enhance? Lol oh lawd. Sasuke curse seal 1 and 2 can tank it.
> i think you're underestimating hebi at its peak. And like i said in another old thread that fighting against itachi can make any foe look like a joke or overhyped even sannins.
> unlocking MS increases his weaker form stats? Lmao this isnt dbz. I mean i guess it's possible, i remember dantee saying rinnegan sasuke enabled sasuke to be stronger in CQC against madara which is why he sliced him in half. But idk, seems faulty.
> i don't remember any feats of any SM jira8ya and naruto being faster than hebi sasuke. I assume you're going to bring up 3rd raikage vs war arc SM naruto but sasuke did the similar feat with a faster opponent with his 3T.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
It cannot be a coincidence that kishi have sasuke dodge KB and Ay with 3T and not his newly aquired MS.
> smoke bombs and dust storm is meaningless. Sharingan can still see chakra in through debris. And unlike pain, sasuke knows how naruto tricks work in fact he even incorporates it against deidara and itachi with his shadow shuriken and luring foes to the bait with wire traps instead of clones.
> I've already established cs2 hebi sasuke does not drain as fast. His fight with deidara is proof of that. 15min sage mode is only valid if he doesnt use high tier rasengan jutsus like FRS which would drain his NE even faster.
Bold is completely wrong .
- Naruto has the feats of blitzing Asura path , from a very far distance , when all of pain's paths has shared vision
- Pain paths were able to keep up with SM jiraiya and dance around Kakashi , both SM jiraiya and Kakashi has more speed than Hebi Sasuke in the databook , yet those paths were getting smaked around against Naruto in CQC
- Rinnegan can also see chakra , that's why Pain was able to see the chakra barrier around konoha , but the Rinnegan couldn't see through smoke bombs or dust cloud , the only doujutsu that can do this is the Byakugan , remember Izuna has the sharingan but he couldn't see Tobirama behind the smoke and got killed
- Pain paths are durabe , Asura tanked a Raiton bunshin + Raikiri + Choza's giant fist + point blank shinra tensei and was still able to function .
> from all the debates I've read on any site, nothing about an inferior character lasting in a CQC because he played defensively. Pts sasuke played defensively and yet lee still thrashed him, same with gaara when sasuke was dogging him in the semi finals. And before you say speed gap is the reason then vote 1 is another example.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^ as you can clearly see, defensive play is meaningless if they're inferior. If taka sasuke and base naruto didnt get beat down like vote1 sasuke in secs then defensive play has nothing to with it. Also in this scan, sasuke quotes keeping his distance will keep him unharm. Well against SM it's highlight is CQC not mid-long range.
>curse seal, mind awakening pill, curse seal lvl 2 and orochi absorbed all enhanced sasuke's durability. He tested this all out against naruto in vote1 and TS which is my evidence.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
> since when frog kata dmg is on the same lvl as ay and tsunade? Because he Ko'ed some stupid rinne puppet that lacks durability enhance? Lol oh lawd. Sasuke curse seal 1 and 2 can tank it.
> i think you're underestimating hebi at its peak. And like i said in another old thread that fighting against itachi can make any foe look like a joke or overhyped even sannins.
> unlocking MS increases his weaker form stats? Lmao this isnt dbz. I mean i guess it's possible, i remember dantee saying rinnegan sasuke enabled sasuke to be stronger in CQC against madara which is why he sliced him in half. But idk, seems faulty.
> i don't remember any feats of any SM jira8ya and naruto being faster than hebi sasuke. I assume you're going to bring up 3rd raikage vs war arc SM naruto but sasuke did the similar feat with a faster opponent with his 3T.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
It cannot be a coincidence that kishi have sasuke dodge KB and Ay with 3T and not his newly aquired MS.
> smoke bombs and dust storm is meaningless. Sharingan can still see chakra in through debris. And unlike pain, sasuke knows how naruto tricks work in fact he even incorporates it against deidara and itachi with his shadow shuriken and luring foes to the bait with wire traps instead of clones.
> I've already established cs2 hebi sasuke does not drain as fast. His fight with deidara is proof of that. 15min sage mode is only valid if he doesnt use high tier rasengan jutsus like FRS which would drain his NE even faster.
Bold is completely wrong .
- Naruto has the feats of blitzing Asura path , from a very far distance , when all of pain's paths has shared vision
- Pain paths were able to keep up with SM jiraiya and dance around Kakashi , both SM jiraiya and Kakashi has more speed than Hebi Sasuke in the databook , yet those paths were getting smaked around against Naruto in CQC
- Rinnegan can also see chakra , that's why Pain was able to see the chakra barrier around konoha , but the Rinnegan couldn't see through smoke bombs or dust cloud , the only doujutsu that can do this is the Byakugan , remember Izuna has the sharingan but he couldn't see Tobirama behind the smoke and got killed
- Pain paths are durabe , Asura tanked a Raiton bunshin + Raikiri + Choza's giant fist + point blank shinra tensei and was still able to function .
> from all the debates I've read on any site, nothing about an inferior character lasting in a CQC because he played defensively. Pts sasuke played defensively and yet lee still thrashed him, same with gaara when sasuke was dogging him in the semi finals. And before you say speed gap is the reason then vote 1 is another example.
It's common sense. Fighting defensively with the intention of just reacting to your opponent is much easier than simply attacking your opponent. This is why against the Gokage, Madara opted to fight defensively before Susano'o clones came into play because fighting the Gokage offensively with just the abilities he was using was much too difficult and far too risky. It's also the reason why Sasuke managed to compete with Bee because he fought defensively. If he attempted to fight offensively, he likely would've been tagged sooner seeing as how fighting offensively leaves your body in such a vulnerable position.
You make a good point with Sasuke's case when he fought Lee, but you also proved that Sasuke opted for a defensive approach because fighting offensively was a lot harder and also riskier than fighting defensively.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
^ as you can clearly see, defensive play is meaningless if they're inferior. If taka sasuke and base naruto didnt get beat down like vote1 sasuke in secs then defensive play has nothing to with it. Also in this scan, sasuke quotes keeping his distance will keep him unharm. Well against SM it's highlight is CQC not mid-long range.
Sure, but it's made clear that he couldn't even react to KN1 Naruto's attacks in the first place and the speed gap between them was incredibly large. KN0 Naruto was already noticeably faster than Sasuke, when you include the fact that 3T Precognition is practically useless, the gap between them in speed was immense and not only that, there's no way Sasuke could've competed with his physical strength at the time whereas Naruto clearly could with Deva Path, so that's also a factor.
I'm not suggesting that Base Naruto was multiple tiers below Deva Path (who was distributing chakra to other Paths), but he was certainly noticeably slower and less reactive because Deva Path easily reached Naruto and forced Naruto on the defensive.
>curse seal, mind awakening pill, curse seal lvl 2 and orochi absorbed all enhanced sasuke's durability. He tested this all out against naruto in vote1 and TS which is my evidence.
I agree, it increases his durability, but that doesn't really convey to me that CS2 Sasuke's durability is at the level where he can tank SM Naruto's attacks straight to the face. Using a weaker attack to showcase Sasuke's durability doesn't really justify how he can withstand a much stronger attack.
> since when frog kata dmg is on the same lvl as ay and tsunade? Because he Ko'ed some stupid rinne puppet that lacks durability enhance? Lol oh lawd. Sasuke curse seal 1 and 2 can tank it.
That stupid rinne puppet can tank a kick head on from SM Jiraiya, the guy who can kick Boss Summons like nobody's business. Only Tsunade can even achieve that level of destruction and her hits were a guaranteed kill from Orochimaru's perspective, possibly one of the most resilient characters in the manga. Sorry, but I'm not seeing how CS2 Sasuke tanks it and CS Sasuke certainly doesn't tank it.
> i think you're underestimating hebi at its peak. And like i said in another old thread that fighting against itachi can make any foe look like a joke or overhyped even sannins.
> unlocking MS increases his weaker form stats? Lmao this isnt dbz. I mean i guess it's possible, i remember dantee saying rinnegan sasuke enabled sasuke to be stronger in CQC against madara which is why he sliced him in half. But idk, seems faulty.
I'm really not. I agree that Hebi Sasuke performed well against Itachi, but Hebi Sasuke outright admitted inferiority against Orochimaru, deliberately waited until Orochimaru was severely ill, prepared himself by obtaining much more knowledge on Orochimaru's abilities, and deliberately kept some of his techniques a secret in front of Orochimaru just to make sure he actually defeated him. Sorry, but Hebi Sasuke was not on the level of the Sannin at the time whereas SM Naruto was compared to SM Jiraiya and Minato. It's very clear that SM Naruto was portrayed to be a stronger combatant.
As for MS boosting his stats, while it sounds ridiculous, it did. The Dojutsu itself did not boost his speed, but the Chakra obtained through awakening the Mangekyo did. Since it's a higher stage of the Sharingan, the chakra being reflected is greater as a result because Dojutsu is literally the reflection of chakra. Because his chakra strengthened even further, so did his physicality. That's why Sage Mode increases all of one's techniques because it creates a more potent chakra:
You must be registered for see images
> i don't remember any feats of any SM jira8ya and naruto being faster than hebi sasuke. I assume you're going to bring up 3rd raikage vs war arc SM naruto but sasuke did the similar feat with a faster opponent with his 3T.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
It cannot be a coincidence that kishi have sasuke dodge KB and Ay with 3T and not his newly aquired MS.
Sasuke evaded a linear strike which Sasuke stated made it easier to dodge his foes because of it, but that doesn't convey to me how well he'd perform against someone in CQC. Nonetheless, SM Naruto does have superior feats and people with comparable speed as Hebi Sasuke received a far greater boost in Sage Mode than Sasuke did with CS2, so we could certainly deduce that Sage Mode enhances the user's speed even further.
> smoke bombs and dust storm is meaningless. Sharingan can still see chakra in through debris. And unlike pain, sasuke knows how naruto tricks work in fact he even incorporates it against deidara and itachi with his shadow shuriken and luring foes to the bait with wire traps instead of clones.
Same as Pain, but really, a thick layer of chakra has been shown to block the Sharingan's perception of chakra in the scan that I just presented and the Dust Cloud accomplishes just that which can enable Naruto to hinder his LoS and perform a potential feint because he has the feats to do so.
> I've already established cs2 hebi sasuke does not drain as fast. His fight with deidara is proof of that. 15min sage mode is only valid if he doesnt use high tier rasengan jutsus like FRS which would drain his NE even faster.
Bold is completely wrong .
- Naruto has the feats of blitzing Asura path , from a very far distance , when all of pain's paths has shared vision
- Pain paths were able to keep up with SM jiraiya and dance around Kakashi , both SM jiraiya and Kakashi has more speed than Hebi Sasuke in the databook , yet those paths were getting smaked around against Naruto in CQC
- Rinnegan can also see chakra , that's why Pain was able to see the chakra barrier around konoha , but the Rinnegan couldn't see through smoke bombs or dust cloud , the only doujutsu that can do this is the Byakugan , remember Izuna has the sharingan but he couldn't see Tobirama behind the smoke and got killed
- Pain paths are durable , Asura tanked a Raiton bunshin + Raikiri + Choza's giant fist + point blank shinra tensei and was still able to function .
Lmao log off dude, i wanted to resist but this was too easy to counter. At least post scans
> no blitzing ashura path. He flanked him. Different
-> even if it did, who the **** cares. Transplant rinnegans dont have precog and it got soloed by kohonamaru. What kind of shit reaction feat is that? Lol sasuke > 6pain reaction
You must be registered for see images
> no they did not keep up with jiraiya 1 on 1 cqc
> **** kakashi. Sauce is faster
> already established rinnegan can't see through debris, sharingan can ie: mine bombs and pillars :sdo:
You must be registered for see images
-> brings up durability except the pains that mattered. Two pains got stomped by a base rasengan :lol
You must be registered for see images
Saauke is faster, better reaction, more jutsu variety, more durability and isnt a dumbass like the pains. Impossible for pain arc SM naruto to win unless ma pa is there and even then I'd say he still has a chance. Only war arc SM naruto stomps due to less restrictions and better usage/feats
Lmao log off dude, i wanted to resist but this was too easy to counter. At least post scans
> no blitzing ashura path. He flanked him. Different
-> even if it did, who the **** cares. Transplant rinnegans dont have precog and it got soloed by kohonamaru. What kind of shit reaction feat is that? Lol sasuke > 6pain reaction
You must be registered for see images
> no they did not keep up with jiraiya 1 on 1 cqc
> **** kakashi. Sauce is faster
> already established rinnegan can't see through debris, sharingan can ie: mine bombs and pillars :sdo:
You must be registered for see images
-> brings up durability except the pains that mattered. Two pains got stomped by a base rasengan :lol
You must be registered for see images
Saauke is faster, better reaction, more jutsu variety, more durability and isnt a dumbass like the pains. Impossible for pain arc SM naruto to win unless ma pa is there and even then I'd say he still has a chance. Only war arc SM naruto stomps due to less restrictions and better usage/feats
Lmfao you couldn't be more wrong
Hebi sasuke = Kakashi in speed , proved by the databook
Lol , SM jiraiya is faster than Hebi sasuke .
the paths were keeping up and dancing around them , pretty sure the same paths will stomp sasuke's vanilla ass Lol
Bringing Deva path getting killed by a Rasengan will not help your argument at all , since deva path flatened konoha , had a long fight with KN6 naruto , used chibaku tensei , and then got killed by a Rasengan
and let's be real , one SM rasengan is all what it takes to kill sasuke here .
Sharingan can't see through dust cloud , and that panl with itachi won't help your case since itachi didn't see through the rocks , he saw the fragement of the chakra that kabuto left in the cave
Izuna had the MS yet he couldn't see through the smoke cloud and got killed by Tobirama
Pain paths has shared vision and they reacted easily to Kakashi who has LOL precog and SM jiraiya who also has LOL precog . This takes a big sh*t on Sasuke's reaction feats
Hebi sasuke has nothing that can't save his ass here , he dies a horrible death here lol
Lmfao you couldn't be more wrong
Hebi sasuke = Kakashi in speed , proved by the databook
Lol , SM jiraiya is faster than Hebi sasuke .
the paths were keeping up and dancing around them , pretty sure the same paths will stomp sasuke's vanilla ass Lol
Bringing Deva path getting killed by a Rasengan will not help your argument at all , since deva path flatened konoha , had a long fight with KN6 naruto , used chibaku tensei , and then got killed by a Rasengan
and let's be real , one SM rasengan is all what it takes to kill sasuke here .
Sharingan can't see through dust cloud , and that panl with itachi won't help your case since itachi didn't see through the rocks , he saw the fragement of the chakra that kabuto left in the cave
Izuna had the MS yet he couldn't see through the smoke cloud and got killed by Tobirama
Pain paths has shared vision and they reacted easily to Kakashi who has LOL precog and SM jiraiya who also has LOL precog . This takes a big sh*t on Sasuke's reaction feats
Hebi sasuke has nothing that can't save his ass here , he dies a horrible death here lol
LOL no , your post end nothing
Naruo said that about MS sasuke who is >>>> hebi sasuke
and Naruto always held back against sasuke , but in this thread he is going to kill sasuke
P.S : Sasuk also said he needed Itachi's eyes to beat Naruto LOL
