[Discussion] Religion

[HashiraMadara]

Because I was taught not to kill.

Obviously my post flew right by you, just like most religious fanatics do.

I am not religious...

As I mentioned: "you were taught not to kill"
By who? a religious person?

You are definitely beating around the bush not giving me any explicit answers...

I asked what is right and what is wrong, you said one decides for himself. Then I asked you, why haven't you killed then: you give me this "Because I was taught not to kill." :sdo: <== is this deciding your self???
I

 

[HashiraMadara]

Sufficient is arbitrary. There is no return on investment in commiting yourself to change anothers worldview.

I said: "cognitive beings" then at the end "sufficient"...

^^ This should give you your answer

 

[Dannie]

I am not religious...

I don't really care. You seem to only be trying to argue with the Atheists, or those who don't believe in god. You obviously have some issues with those who don't believe in a higher power.

As I mentioned: "you were taught not to kill"
By who? a religious person?

Pretty sure I mentioned before that I used to be a Christian so obviously I was taught by those who are religious.

I am not religious but I still know what I should and shouldn't do.

You are definitely beating around the bush not giving me any explicit answers...

No, you're just asking very strange and stupid questions.

I asked what is right and what is wrong, you said one decides for himself. Then I asked you, why haven't you killed then: you give me this "Because I was taught not to kill." :sdo: <== is this deciding your self???

I know what you asked and I don't care if you don't agree.
Obviously it's both. You are taught at a young age not to do something, and then you start to grow and develop for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Sometimes these ideals change depending on who you meet and how influenced you are.

I was taught not to kill by someone who also doesn't kill. I also have enough common sense not to kill or do anything else that would harm another person. Obviously I decided for myself that I will not kill. It is not only because I was taught. There's this thing called common sense. You should know not to kill anyone, unless it's for self defense and you are being attacked.

 

[Yubel]

I said: "cognitive beings" then at the end "sufficient"...

^^ This should give you your answer

Then the question presents itself, how do you become a "cognitive being"? I believe that comes by questioning your identity and surroundings. So how does one develop the willingness to question things? One way I think that would emerge is through becoming alienated. That would happen by listening to the intuition that is buried underneath a lifetime of indoctrination. By following that faint suggestion that tells you something is off. That requires courage to explore.

 

[nefraiko]

Yes it is very Paradoxical in 3 main points

* 1 Atheism is born out of religion...
* 2 The biggest flop of Atheism is Buddhism, because Atheism definition: "absence in belief of a higher being" <== yet the very religion believe in "good" and "bad" :|
* 3 All un contacted people in the world, Sentinels(excluded because they're unknown) practice a form of a higher being relief.


There are lot more

I agree.

but for the third point please can you clarifie a little more ? because I'm not satisfied with my comprehension of this sentence.

 

[HashiraMadara]

I don't really care. You seem to only be trying to argue with the Atheists, or those who don't believe in god. You obviously have some issues with those who don't believe in a higher power.
Pretty sure I mentioned before that I used to be a Christian so obviously I was taught by those who are religious.
I am not religious but I still know what I should and shouldn't do.
No, you're just asking very strange and stupid questions.
I know what you asked and I don't care if you don't agree.
Obviously it's both. You are taught at a young age not to do something, and then you start to grow and develop for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Sometimes these ideals change depending on who you meet and how influenced you are.
I was taught not to kill by someone who also doesn't kill. I also have enough common sense not to kill or do anything else that would harm another person. Obviously I decided for myself that I will not kill. It is not only because I was taught. There's this thing called common sense. You should know not to kill anyone, unless it's for self defense and you are being attacked.

I have no quarrels with the Atheists, but I do have a problem with those who judge:

You're forgetting that sense has the word "common" on it and if memory serves me right you grew up surrounded by Christians...

I am not asking strange questions, I am simply asking questions that show you how paradoxical atheism is :|

"influence", "moral", "taught", "common" These are clues that even in your atheism it is more religious than you even realise!

I was planning on going to the core of your beliefs but instead you're giving me run around instead of straight answers...

I will ask again what is consciousness in your definition

 

[Dannie]

Consciousness is being aware of your own feelings. It's a gut feeling.

Are you satisfied?

 

[Conspirator.]

My parents are Hindus. What do I like about it? You can be an atheist and still call yourself a Hindu. As for me, I am agnostic currently.

 

[HashiraMadara]

I agree.

but for the third point please can you clarifie a little more ? because I'm not satisfied with my comprehension of this sentence.

The 3rd sentence simply says almost all indigenous people in the world when whoever was colonising them met them they already had a form of belief system believing in a higher being which means there never was a tribe discovered in the world where they were Atheists... Meaning Atheism is born out of people being rebellious to the religion yet following it's principles and their definitions

That's why Dannie here cannot define me those principles since they all came from some religion, he keeps on saying "you choose that on your own"

If one brings in an argument of Buddhism, you simply remind them Siddhartha himself was a Hindu :|

 

[HashiraMadara]

Then the question presents itself, how do you become a "cognitive being"? I believe that comes by questioning your identity and surroundings. So how does one develop the willingness to question things? One way I think that would emerge is through becoming alienated. That would happen by listening to the intuition that is buried underneath a lifetime of indoctrination. By following that faint suggestion that tells you something is off. That requires courage to explore.

Courage to question, you mean? The word indoctrination it self brings another infinite loop!

How is an Atheist reading a book of "how to succeed in life" not being indoctrinated

 

[HashiraMadara]

Consciousness is being aware of your own feelings. It's a gut feeling.

Are you satisfied?

Consciousness is a gut feeling right?

If it is a gut feeling, since we're different as beings = we have countless gut feelings: How is it that Majority's gut feelings "has more or less" the same definition of right?

There is no country in the world where killings for fun is legal, why? gut feeling? are, weren't you saying you were taught?

Which leads to the ultimate question: "If I taught you to NOT do something" and you end up believing in NOT doing it, "How did your gut feeling participate in this matter? Is it even existing at this point?"

 

[nefraiko]

I don't really care. You seem to only be trying to argue with the Atheists, or those who don't believe in god. You obviously have some issues with those who don't believe in a higher power.



Pretty sure I mentioned before that I used to be a Christian so obviously I was taught by those who are religious.

I am not religious but I still know what I should and shouldn't do.



No, you're just asking very strange and stupid questions.



I know what you asked and I don't care if you don't agree.
Obviously it's both. You are taught at a young age not to do something, and then you start to grow and develop for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Sometimes these ideals change depending on who you meet and how influenced you are.

I was taught not to kill by someone who also doesn't kill. I also have enough common sense not to kill or do anything else that would harm another person. Obviously I decided for myself that I will not kill. It is not only because I was taught. There's this thing called common sense. You should know not to kill anyone, unless it's for self defense and you are being attacked.

what he is saying basically is that the "common sense" you're talking about, witch is rational thinking...actually tells that you should kill someone if these conditions are met :

1- the killing of this person brings joy or pleasure, or money, or power or any kinds of winings to your person.
2- you have the power to do it.
3- their is no higher power that will punish you if you don't kill, or reward you if you don't kill.

that is the common sense of a grown up dude.

but you can answer me and say that the higher being is the government and the laws of society.
I say that the base of these laws is moral, and based on religion, because religion has established morality in the human mind and it's been going for as long as their is history.

there is no way to agree on a universal law such in a society of thinker / self interest driven and with different individuals with different powers if not everyone agrees that their is an absolute higher power that can protect the law and make it an absolute law...a common sense obvious moral choice. as no killing, banish arrogance, be humble, respect the other, etc.

if I am 100% that their is no god I ****ing kill myself right now as their will be no point in living in the first place because of death that negates all of my life experiences, as simple as that.

 

[Yubel]

Courage to question, you mean? The word indoctrination it self brings another infinite loop!

How is an Atheist reading a book of "how to succeed in life" not being indoctrinated

Because he's not being blackmailed into a choice, he's not being asked to worship or burn in hell for eternity. For example, when I read a book, I take what I liked and think is relevant to me and leave. Sharing ideas is not indoctrination.

indoctrinate
ɪnˈdɒktrɪneɪt/Submit
verb
teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
"broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses"
synonyms: brainwash, propagandize, proselytize, inculcate, re-educate, persuade, convince, condition, discipline, mould; More
archaic
teach or instruct (someone).
"he indoctrinated them in systematic theology"

 

[Deadlift]

Consciousness is being aware of your own feelings. It's a gut feeling.

Are you satisfied?

Oooh sometimes I get a gut feeling, yeah

 

[HashiraMadara]

what he is saying basically is that the "common sense" you're talking about, witch is rational thinking...actually tells that you should kill someone if these conditions are met :

1- the killing of this person brings joy or pleasure, or money, or power or any kinds of winings to your person.
2- you have the power to do it.
3- their is no higher power that will punish you if you don't kill, or reward you if you don't kill.

that is the common sense of a grown up dude.

but you can answer me and say that the higher being is the government and the laws of society.
I say that the base of these laws is moral, and based on religion, because religion has established morality in the human mind and it's been going for as long as their is history.

there is no way to agree on a universal law such in a society of thinker / self interest driven and with different individuals with different powers if not everyone agrees that their is an absolute higher power that can protect the law and make it an absolute law...a common sense obvious moral choice. as no killing, banish arrogance, be humble, respect the other, etc.

if I am 100% that their is no god I ****ing kill myself right now as their will be no point in living in the first place because of death that negates all of my life experiences, as simple as that.

I don't know why is he the only one not getting my point

 

[FarmeRob]

I think everyone subconsciously believes in god and theres directions they take in search for "him". Athiests tend to look outwards, towards the stars which leaves them in mystery and amazement of his work. Religious people turn inwards towards themselves and will see the beauty and simplicity of his work. Agnostics dont look anywhere which leaves depressed I guess.. I could be wrong Im really high xD

 

[Dannie]

Which leads to the ultimate question: "If I taught you to NOT do something" and you end up believing in NOT doing it, "How did your gut feeling participate in this matter? Is it even existing at this point?"

Being taught early =/= being unable to have a gut feeling about what you learned later on. Actually read instead of assuming shit you don't understand.

I'm pretty sure children at a very young age don't have any sense of morality to what's right and wrong, so their parents sometimes teach them what they believe, and then when they grow up and are able to think on their own, they begin to question or acknowledge what their parents have said. If you look at your surroundings, you can sometimes be influenced and change how you view things. It is not always concrete and set in stone. If I grow up and realize that killing is wrong then that is my gut feeling and I am not going to do that.

You're assuming that just because I was taught something, that I automatically have no say on how I feel about it because I was taught, but this is only your flawed way of thinking, as the very moment you are taught something, you are already programmed to believe it to be true, until you question it for yourself and find something different to believe in. Those who learn and do research have feelings on what they believe to be true.

Even if kids weren't taught not to kill, I'm sure most kids would see (as they get older) that killing is wrong and then they will start to not partake in wrong decisions. Parents teachings only help this.

I don't know why is he the only one not getting my point

You never had a point to begin with.

>First you go on about how Atheists are ignorant and how they're more judgmental than Christians, which is full of shit.

>Then you go on to ask if I believe in the Big Bang Theory or the possibility of a higher power. Apparently that didn't work out for you since you avoided my answer.

>Then you ask if I believe in the word moral as if that had anything to do with my initial post or how that will help you at all.

>Then you ask me what I believe to be right and wrong. I answered, and then you went on to ask even more stupid questions.

>Then you ask if I ever killed someone. Again, another dumb question.

Apparently you like to ask me some very dumb questions and then expect me to answer the way you want me to, but that's not going to happen. I don't kill people because I was taught not to be a murderer, but more importantly I know it is wrong to harm other people and because I don't want to put my life in jeopardy.

You keep repeatedly asking redundant questions that don't make any sense, while trying to look smart, but you are just an obnoxious idiot that should cool it with the red font. It isn't helping your points.

 

[ComplexCity]

I don't care for either one nor do I have a favorite

So you don't care about how we came into existence, if you aren't religious (just assuming here) then how do you believe we came to be?

Sure

So what is morality to you? What is immorality to you?

You decide that for yourself, but if their were no restrictions for what's right and what's wrong then murderers and rapists would have free reign

If one decides what is moral and what's immoral and morality is subjective to each person's, how is one's opinion greater than the others to tell them that morality is wrong? How can you sit here and say the it's ok to set a limit for murders and rapist when we don't know the origins of morality or if we even know what's right or wrong?

Consciously, you should know whats right and what's wrong

Morality is not instinctive as it can be taught so I'll need you to elucidate here. There are some people that get pleasure out of killing not all people feel bad or feel it is wrong

but some people still believe that what they do is right, despite if other people find it wrong

Exactly, because it's subjective, those people who feel as though another's morality is wrong, what basis do we have to establish so

If we are talking about morals pertaining to social statuses, then of course society decides what is right and what is wrong, but even that can cause a lot of problems

I think we are on the same page here

Because I know it's wrong and because I don't want to waste my life doing something stupid.

Again, who says that it's wrong. We kill innocents in war yet will justify that wrong for the defense of our nation (America, but this can apply anywhere). So is America wrong for killing even if it is due to the fact that it was in self defense?

 

[Dannie]

So you don't care about how we came into existence, if you aren't religious (just assuming here) then how do you believe we came to be?

The thing is, is that I don't want to know or care how we came to be because we will most likely never get an answer. Maybe it's because I don't have enough knowledge to give a shit? I'm not going to waste my time believing in how we came to be when I myself can't prove it. It's a useless effort.

So what morality to you? What is immorality to you?

Everyone has their own definitions of moral and immoral.

To me, If you kill or harm someone without a cause - that is immoral. Murderers, rapists etc. This should be obvious.

Morality is a different matter. There are different things that people find good that I don't and vice versa.

If one decides what is moral and what's immoral and morality is subjective to each person's, how is one's opinion greater than the others to tell them that morality is wrong? How can you sit here and say the it's ok to set a limit for murders and rapist when we don't know the origins of morality or if we even know what's right or wrong?

Are you really trying to sit here and argue if rapists and murderers aren't immoral?
It should be common sense that rapists and murders are immoral.

Morality is not instinctive as it can be taught so I'll need you to elucidate here. There are some people that get pleasure out of killing not all people feel bad or feel it is wrong

So obviously the ones who get pleasure out of killing are immoral.
People who are in war don't get pleasure out of killing. They have to kill to defend their country.

Again, who says that it's wrong. We kill innocents in war yet will justify that wrong for the defense of our nation (America, but this can apply anywhere). So is America wrong for killing even if it is due to the fact that it was in self defense?

Above. There's a difference between killing for satisfaction and killing because you have to.

 

[Power Bottom]

29 pages later.

Lol @ atheist = homosexual


Special indeed