Between DB1[finals] and DB 2[SRA] his taijutsu and speed both jumped by 1 point each.Considering that in 1 month training he could have gained easily enhanced both his taijutsu and speed.
yeah i know
Agreed but i just dont think it was that great of a boost , he seemed more preoccupied learning kaiten and 64 palms and since lee needed the gates to beat neji , i see him killing most of the team before he dies imo..
But seriously hinata stomping lee neg diff had me dying
I really don't think there was some moment where he "activated it" in the sense of "turning on" the 360 degree vision. If there was, that moment that Arizen posted isn't it.
Actually i fully agree with this section of arizens post as it was used to cement my points in the past among other things. Since neji isn't always seein in 360 even with byakugan active and the scan illustrates the expansion of his visual scope , i find this intellection highly plausible and completely agree.
Mostly everything ur saying was already covered by forrbidden truth.
But the fact remains that each time neji was using it , he displayed feats like these
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I think its simple , neji was focusing on seeing through the dust when looking for jirobo which means he wasn't seein all around himself with his pov bein clearly illustrated at a single spot then cemented when jirobo appeared behind him , somthing that would never catch this neji off-guard.
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Its fairly similar to wat happend with naruto only neji simply turned his full on attension on wat he thought was the real naruto .
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So in a forum fight like this one , i dont see the team making the same results since its completely up to neji in regards to its usage.
Well it's whatevs, I don't feel like I have new arguments to bring to the table after this so I'm pretty much done with this thread. I agree that whenever Neji is concentrating on Byakugan he sees everything, but I don't necessarily see him maintaining that same concentration while also doing Arizen's speculated Shunshin feat. If I see something that completely blows my argument out of the water I'll respond again in this thread but otherwise I'll leave it up to stand on its own.
Well it's whatevs, I don't feel like I have new arguments to bring to the table after this so I'm pretty much done with this thread. I agree that whenever Neji is concentrating on Byakugan he sees everything, but I don't necessarily see him maintaining that same concentration while also doing Arizen's speculated Shunshin feat. If I see something that completely blows my argument out of the water I'll respond again in this thread but otherwise I'll leave it up to stand on its own.
Its really not hard to understand bro , bare with me for a second while i try to break down my point with manga demonstrations.
Here we see neji usin his telescopic vision after 64 palms.
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At this point in time neji is not utilizing his 360 vision , this was subsequently followed by kido blitzing into the tree taking no less than a second to set up his elaborate traps. Neji has yet to switch to 360 due to the pace at which kido constructed his trap evidenced by the fact that kido was well within the 50m as this was the initial stages , but also neji's exclamation mark after evading the fake 'explosive tag.
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Neji then quickly switched to expanded 360D vision which happens nigh instantly then noticed the volley of attacks coming towards him to which he reacted with kaiten.
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At this point in time neji was utilizing 360d and had already seen the hiding kidomaru nigh instantly since he was within the 50m radius.
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Shortly after , kido then activated CM1 to which neji responded by going into chakra vision again.
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Neji's vision then remained in chakra mode until here when we literally see him activating/expanding his 360d after he realized that kaiten failed.
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From then on neji wisely decided to stick with 360d vision and he did so for the rest of the duration of the fight since kaiten was useless , the middle panel represents neji "Sensing the incoming attacks with byakugan.
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And these scans represent the fact that neji can activate and maintain his 360d vision for as long as he wants , which he'll surely do in this match and that he'll be nigh untouchable by this team unless the blindspot is attacked.
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Tenten explained that a additional perk of the byakugan alongside its sight is the abillty to "Sense" , which makes sense (pun intended) because seeing is one thing , but when u have volleys of daggers coming simultaneously from all angles ur gonna need a bit of sensing to pull of evading everyone while remaining in one spot.
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This scan represents the seeing and sensing abilities of the byakugan perfectly and cements everything Tenten said in the above scan.
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Its seems the sensing ability of the byakugan is connected with the 360d vision and has the same blindspot (Area where things can go unsensed). This ability is highly similar to neji's ability to sense with chakra which was used for detecting attacks to constitute for the eyes weakness and balance out.
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I think i'v already proven my point about the byakugans 360dv but in regards to this match , with the ability to see , sense all attacks , neji would basically be nigh untouchable in any cqc scenario presented by this team even if they all attacked simultaneously people who try this will most surely die (suicide). Posion gas wont ever be a factor imo unless out of character as u said and the team somehow subdues neji , i have to agree with the arizen there only without that lackluster shunshin scenario she presented.
Imho neji can actually win this depending on how the match starts and wat actions the team would take in character so im completely neutral in how i think this match goes tbh
There's no feats showing that Neji is faster than Sasuke but it should be common sense since Lee needed pure speed(Gates) to overcome Neji's byakugan. Add on to the fact that Sasuke won't be able to react to Neji's gentle fist style with 2TM.
I keep stating that what I'm saying about poison gas is OoC. xD I already conceded that Neji wins this IC. Originally, OP didn't specify, or I don't remember seeing anything other than "Intel: Manga" when I first checked the thread and started typing my post - which took some time, I admit.
The below is mostly just me arguing about the meaning of
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(I am not convinced that it represents an "activation" of 360DV).
Okay, neo, I can agree with you partially. [Chakra Vision] is apparently a separate mode from [Telescopic / 360D]. However, [Telescopic / 360D] is one mode, and what you call "Telescopic Vision" is just a representation of Neji focusing on one detail in his 360D FOV.
The manga uses "telescopic" in a strange way. It doesn't mean that he's increased the range of his vision. It means that everything within the 360D FOV is "blown up." When Neji is "focused" on something in his 360D FOV, it is represented as being viewed by a telescope. I've gone through the scans and there is no instance where Neji used "telescopic vision" to see something outside of the 50 m range.
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That's clearly "Telescopic" in the sense that he's "zooming in," but he also has 360DV active.
In other words, if Neji isn't consciously focused on something, 360D is active and Neji is perceiving in 360D. It doesn't need a specific "activation."
Everything up to this point, I agree with, with the qualification that it's not that Neji isn't using 360DV; Neji is focusing on one thing in his 360DV.
this was subsequently followed by kido blitzing into the tree taking no less than a second to set up his elaborate traps. Neji has yet to switch to 360 due to the pace at which kido constructed his trap evidenced by the fact that kido was well within the 50m as this was the initial stages , but also neji's exclamation mark after evading the fake 'explosive tag.
. This is more accurate to the fact that Neji is visibly shown just waiting in the forest, too.
Where Kidomaru actually set the traps, and if where the traps were set was within 50m of Neji, is unclear. It's fully possible that they were set outside of Neji's Byakugan's range.
Neji then quickly switched to expanded 360D vision which happens nigh instantly then noticed the volley of attacks coming towards him to which he reacted with kaiten.
Kidomaru did not necessarily set the traps so quickly that Neji's Byakugan wouldn't have had time to react. The panels show Neji waiting pretty comfortably.
Kidomaru did not necessarily set the traps within range of Neji's Byakugan's perception. In both the unofficial and official translations, Kidomaru expresses an intention to set the traps from a distance. However, he was hiding within range of Neji's Byakugan's 360DV, which is logical (from his perspective), since he needs to confirm the kill.
The scan provided does not show a panel in which Neji "activated" something like 360D. It could easily have been always active, and the above two points explain why Neji didn't perceive the traps until they were launched. Since there is no panel showing Neji "activating" 360DV, there is nothing contradicting the "It was always active/is always active when Neji isn't focused on one particular detail, and Neji simply reacted when attacks came into his range," explanation.
Shortly after , kido then activated CM1 to which neji responded by going into chakra vision again.
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Neji's vision then remained in chakra mode until here when we literally see him activating/expanding his 360d after he realized that kaiten failed.
I can agree that Chakra Vision is something Neji activates and deactivates.
From then on neji wisely decided to stick with 360d vision and he did so for the rest of the duration of the fight since kaiten was useless , the middle panel represents neji "Sensing the incoming attacks with byakugan.
Alternatively, there was nothing that he needed to be focusing on within his 50 m 360D FOV. Again, Neji never used "Telescopic Vision" to increase his visual range. Every instance that you use to do demonstrate "Telescopic Vision" as a separate visual mode from 360DV has Kidomaru within 50 m.
So, in conclusion,
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. It is completely plausible that Neji's 360DV was always active and this image represents Neji taking in the information around him.
The rest of this was you arguing how Neji fares in this match, which I don't disagree with:
And these scans represent the fact that neji can activate and maintain his 360d vision for as long as he wants , which he'll surely do in this match and that he'll be nigh untouchable by this team unless the blindspot is attacked.
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Tenten explained that a additional perk of the byakugan alongside its sight is the abillty to "Sense" , which makes sense (pun intended) because seeing is one thing , but when u have volleys of daggers coming simultaneously from all angles ur gonna need a bit of sensing to pull of evading everyone while remaining in one spot.
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This scan represents the seeing and sensing abilities of the byakugan perfectly and cements everything Tenten said in the above scan.
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Its seems the sensing ability of the byakugan is connected with the 360d vision and has the same blindspot (Area where things can go unsensed). This ability is highly similar to neji's ability to sense with chakra which was used for detecting attacks to constitute for the eyes weakness and balance out.
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I think i'v already proven my point about the byakugans 360dv but in regards to this match , with the ability to see , sense all attacks , neji would basically be nigh untouchable in any cqc scenario presented by this team even if they all attacked simultaneously people who try this will most surely die (suicide). Posion gas wont ever be a factor imo unless out of character as u said and the team somehow subdues neji , i have to agree with the arizen there only without that lackluster shunshin scenario she presented.
Imho neji can actually win this depending on how the match starts and wat actions the team would take in character so im completely neutral in how i think this match goes tbh
There's no feats showing that Neji is faster than Sasuke but it should be common sense since Lee needed pure speed(Gates) to overcome Neji's byakugan. Add on to the fact that Sasuke won't be able to react to Neji's gentle fist style with 2TM.
I already addressed this in another thread, as well as in this thread. Lee needs Gates to compete with Neji in CQC (obviously) - that means body speed, and reactions, because obviously it's impossible to win a hand-to-hand fight regardless of how fast you can move unless you can get a hit in. That doesn't have anything to do with movement speed. The discussion of Neji's speed is about movement speed, not body/striking speed, because the issue at hand was whether or not Neji can blitz Sasuke.
Is CE Neji faster than Sasuke when it comes to Taijutsu? Absolutely. Does CE Neji have better reactions than Sasuke? Absolutely. Is CE Neji faster than Sasuke when it comes to movement speed? Not necessarily.
Striking/body speed and movement speed are definitely separate, since CE Kiba is rated as faster than CE Neji, but CE Neji definitely has faster striking speed than CE Kiba. This is why I don't assume that Neji is faster than Sasuke simply because Lee can't compete with Neji in CQC without going into Gates.
I keep stating that what I'm saying about poison gas is OoC. xD I already conceded that Neji wins this IC. Originally, OP didn't specify, or I don't remember seeing anything other than "Intel: Manga" when I first checked the thread and started typing my post - which took some time, I admit.
The below is mostly just me arguing about the meaning of
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(I am not convinced that it represents an "activation" of 360DV).
Okay, neo, I can agree with you partially. [Chakra Vision] is apparently a separate mode from [Telescopic / 360D]. However, [Telescopic / 360D] is one mode, and what you call "Telescopic Vision" is just a representation of Neji focusing on one detail in his 360D FOV.
If thats the case then we can also assume that penetrating sight works by the exact same concept.
If it does then wat happend against jirobo becomes a bit complicated since neji was actively searching for jirobo but had yet to locate him before he was already behind them..
If all neji had to do was take in his surroundings since 360dv is already active then it makes no sense that kiba was able to locate him before neji simple released his focus.
Ill agree that telescopic vision can be used at the same time as 360dv vision but it doesn't have to be so , ill break in down below.
The manga uses "telescopic" in a strange way. It doesn't mean that he's increased the range of his vision. It means that everything within the 360D FOV is "blown up." When Neji is "focused" on something in his 360D FOV, it is represented as being viewed by a telescope. I've gone through the scans and there is no instance where Neji used "telescopic vision" to see something outside of the 50 m range.
I agree but i never implied that he can see anything beyond his 50m limit , but thats also a valid highlight there is a "limit" to wat p1 neji can do but ill get into the telescopic points but below.
Yes the different modes of the byakugan can be used simultaneously but its not always used that way in manga , as is the case in many instances within the SRA when neji is using byakugan like in jirobos case when he failed to locate him before and naruto's case.
Jonin Neji was already taxed with a mission to find extremely small objects clocking over a ridiculous range span spreading into multiple directions , something that cant even begin to be applied to p1 neji along with the feat itself but ill dive into into.
The Byakugan user chooses wat modes he wishes to access at a time in battle or when to best to use them simultaneously , using multiple modes at the same time most likey has plausible defects like more chakra drainage , apposed to simply using one mode at a time. The user controls wat modes to use at a time , or when to use them simultaneously as was the case with jonin neji. P1 neji in SRA never displayed usage of telescopic sight or penetrating sight simultanously alongside his 360dv like P2 Neji has and if that was the case the jirobo instance and naruto instances get a little shaky imo.
In other words, if Neji isn't consciously focused on something, 360D is active and Neji is perceiving in 360D. It doesn't need a specific "activation."
Then it really makes no sense that kiba was able to locate jirobo before neji when he's the one that informed the team of his disappearance in the first place. I would say plot but im not willing to go there.
Everything up to this point, I agree with, with the qualification that it's not that Neji isn't using 360DV; Neji is focusing on one thing in his 360DV.
Where Kidomaru actually set the traps, and if where the traps were set was within 50m of Neji, is unclear. It's fully possible that they were set outside of Neji's Byakugan's range.
Its possible but highly unlikey compared to the chances and evidence that it was done withing his 50m range as he only kido only resorted to that later after activating Cm , 20 to 30m the most seems much more plausible imo as it happend very quickly.
[*]Kidomaru did not necessarily set the traps so quickly that Neji's Byakugan wouldn't have had time to react. The panels show Neji waiting pretty comfortably.
Never said the byakugan couldn't react in time. The fact that neji never moved from his crouched position after he lost sight of kido indicates that be was searching for him and or neji simply never expanded 360dv yet , but he still has attack sensing
. 360Dv is activated nigh instantly so i agree to disagree here as his exclamations surely indicates that neji never saw the fake kunai until it was launched because even if the fake was set beyond 50m , neji still would've sensed it coming the moment it entered the 50m limit , so in
discordance the follow up volley of daggers shot afterwards would've long been seen as they were already shot before the fake explosive dagger even landed indicating that kido launched both attacks from different intertwining directions using the same trigger.
[*]Kidomaru did not necessarily set the traps within range of Neji's Byakugan's perception. In both the unofficial and official translations, Kidomaru expresses an intention to set the traps from a distance. However, he was hiding within range of Neji's Byakugan's 360DV, which is logical (from his perspective), since he needs to confirm the kill.
The scan provided does not show a panel in which Neji "activated" something like 360D. It could easily have been always active, and the above two points explain why Neji didn't perceive the traps until they were launched. Since there is no panel showing Neji "activating" 360DV, there is nothing contradicting the "It was always active/is always active when Neji isn't focused on one particular detail, and Neji simply reacted when attacks came into his range," explanation.
It happened in the top panel , the daggers were already launched before the fake paper on the dagger fell to the ground from gravity. If neji was already seeing 360Dv while evading the fake dagger then i find it unlikely that he would've been so surprised at seeing them.
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No , it just seems more plausible that he would handled the situation as calmly as he handled these daggers which were actually confirmed beyond 50m.
Alternatively, there was nothing that he needed to be focusing on within his 50 m 360D FOV. Again, Neji never used "Telescopic Vision" to increase his visual range. Every instance that you use to do demonstrate "Telescopic Vision" as a separate visual mode from 360DV has Kidomaru within 50 m.
True but i also used it to show that neji can stay 360Dv for as long as he wants , eliminating all surprise attacks from the team. I never said Tv increases that range.
If thats the case then the information should've already been taken in by default ,
I just find it very suspect that neji would need to take in his surroundings with 360Dv if it was already active as ur claiming. The byakugan would've already seen and accurately mapped the kunai without there bein any need for kishi to illustrate the expanding 360Dv if it was already expanded in the first place.
If neji simply took in his surroundings then the 360Dv bein expanded would've never been shown expanding , and would've made more sense for the expanded aoe within neji's view to have been represented by the top panel of this scan instead , without the need of showing us the full activation/expansion process imo.
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The SFX: "Shing" is used everytime the byakugans sensing ability or a different mode of vision is bein utilized when the byakugan is already active.
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Thats when he's sensing attacks and this is when he's activating Chakra vision
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This means that kido's attack was sensed slightly before it was seen by neji, illustrated by the , SFX : Shing. The 360Dv was then activated/expanded and used to map the attacks location and path after it was sensed.
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Tenten explains it fully an when used in conjunction with kido's explanation along with manga facts it argues against the possibility of 360Dv having been activated by default at that point in time.
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In which case scans like the below ones now make perfect sense.
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Naruto didn't attack nor move yet so byakugan couldn't sense anything and neji also let his guard down as he thought the match was over so no need to "Expand" 360DV or be utilizing it at that point.
U can clearly see the difference between when neji's utilizing 360DV
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Opposed to when he's not , even when not zooming in on anything or focusing on a particular detail with Tv.
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Meaning the 360Dv isn't always active by default , and also explains instances like sakura punching kaguya from above w/Byakugan active and many other instances in which the eye was questionably lacking in consistency, forcing some members to say crap like "Sakura found the byakugans blindspot" among other crap.
So in conclusion this indicates that 360dv is in fact turned on/off or simply not in use 24/7 and isn't always bein used by default when neji is using byaugan and not focusing on somthing with Tv.
This is "forbidden technique's" concession to this very same argument .
Alright... Now that I actually have time to really look at the manga scans, and do some of my own reasearch; I'll concede. Still, Neji can seemingly switch into his 360 degree vision near instantly at will, so I have no idea why he wouldn't of done so immediately after stating that Jirobo disappeared. Perhaps, he couldn't see underground at that point.
Yea neji wins this MID/LOW diff depending on how it starts imo also neji was able to use shunshin here while simultaneously maintaining his speed awareness.
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So the arizen is right , any person who tries to pressure neji dies with ease in almost every scenario.
