[Discussion] Strongest person these people can defeat

[Venomous Cobra]

Do you even understand how useless this " He has no feats argument is?"

do you understand how useless arguing about this matter using anything else is?

There is noway to present feats when Zoro never fought Doflamingo.

You could say the very same thing about sanji vs fujitoura, but of course you're going to come up with excuses

On a contrary to what you said you have no way to prove Doffy can catch Zoro or that Zoro can't avoid/break free out of parasite.

G2 luffy was caught by it, who is way superior to zoro in terms of body movement therefore he cannot avoid them. Plus you can simply not convince me that someone who was shot by the yeti brothers from such distance is avoiding the parastie

So, no one gets the benefit of doubt here. Zoro definitely loses to Doflamingo by portrayal but parasite is a different story.

yeah, I'm done looking at what you people call "portrayal". Zoro has canonically never shown anything that could counter parasite nor was he implied to be at that level of g4 strength wise in order to break them. The very idea of zoro resisting something is jozu coulnd;t is comical

 

[A v i]

You could say the very same thing about sanji vs fujitoura, but of course you're going to come up with excuses

G2 luffy was caught by it, who is way superior to zoro in terms of body movement therefore he cannot avoid them. Plus you can simply not convince me that someone who was shot by the yeti brother from such distance is avoiding the parastie

yeah, I'm done looking at what you people call "portrayal". Zoro has canonically never shown anything that could counter parasite nor was he implied to be at that level of g4 strength wise in order to break them. The very idea of zoro resisting something is jozu coulnd;t is comical

Lmao, Fujitora is far stronger than Doflamingo by portrayal. There is nothing to even discuss about it here.:yeah:

G2 Luffy wasn't caught by it. Neither does Luffy getting caught in something would mean that Zoro will fall for it, as Zoro is never as care free as Luffy. Despite being slower than Luffy, Zoro proved himself to be capable of avoiding things that are extremely fast. In fact, his feat of avoiding Kuma's pad canons was the best out of all SH's before TS.

I said it before, you don't know if he's capable of such a thing. Parasite can be countered in multitude of ways, So, you have way of knowing if he can't avoid it. For the record, Doflamingo never caught either Luffy or Law in it when they were vigorous. He had to wait for Luffy to get weakened to be able to successfully control him via parasite. So, it's not as unavoidable as you make it out to be. I won't say Zoro can definitely counter it but it'd be extremely illogical of you if you think he'd get caught when you have no evidence to prove it. You're simply assuming it to be the case just because you can't imagine Zoro in a better light than Sanji.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lmao, Fujitora is far stronger than Doflamingo by portrayal. There is nothing to even discuss about it here.:yeah:

Like what? What scans portray this exactly. I'm genuinely curious as to what scans show Fuji being far stronger than Doflamingo.


[/QUOTE]

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

And that's just one form of someone's body being so different from yours that you can't use it probably

What? It has nothing to do with Sanji not being able to use her body properly. Her body just isn't strong enough to handle Geppo. If Nami herself knew how to use Geppo, she would still have that same problem.

 

[Punk Hazard]

What? It has nothing to do with Sanji not being able to use her body properly. Her body just isn't strong enough to handle Geppo. If Nami herself knew how to use Geppo, she would still have that same problem.

It's an example of someone's body build being so different from another, that being in their body means they may not be able to do what they could do in their normal body.

For Sanji, it's use Blue Walk because Nami may not have the muscle structure to support it. For Nami, it's being unable to properly defend Sanji's body because it's build is different from hers.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Lmao, Fujitora is far stronger than Doflamingo by portrayal. There is nothing to even discuss about it here.:yeah:

So you're dismissing the possibility that sanji might have been able to push fujitoura just because he couldn't do it doffy? We don't even know which one is physically stronger and you're already there?:lol so much for analysis.

Like I said, If his reflex wasn't good enough to cut carrot or even react to the yeti brothers who are far weaker than doffy, then there's nothing to discuss going by your own logic

G2 Luffy wasn't caught by it. Neither does Luffy getting caught in something would mean that Zoro will fall for it as Zoro is never as care free as Luffy.

Sure, but sanji's performance against doffy is directly reflective of his potential performance against doffy? isn't this baised?

Despite being slower than Luffy, Zoro proved himself to be capable of avoiding things that are extremely fast. In fact, his feat of avoiding Kuma's pad canons was the best out of all SH's before TS.

Lol you could easily disprove this by saying luffy reacted to mihawk in marineford, but of course you're going discard the fact that kuma was not trying kill the strawhat, and this as later evident by him rescuing them in shabondy. Not to mention, how were kuma's pads anything special? or are you one of those people who believe they move at light speed?:elmo:

I said it before, you don't if he's capable of such a think. Parasite can be countered in multitude of ways so you have way of knowing if he can't avoid it.

And zoro could do none, hence were having this argument right now

For the record, Doflamingo never caught either Luffy or Law in it. He had to wait for Luffy to get weakened to be able to successfully control him via parasite.

He never "waited" for luffy,plus I never claimed he caught law with it , I don't know you're mentioning him. Also doffy was also weakened.

So, it's not as unavoidable as you make it out to be

to zoro it is

I won't say Zoro can definitely counter it but it'd be extremely illogical of you if you think he'd get caught when have no evidence to prove it. You're simply assuming it to be the case just because you can't imagine Zoro in a better light than Sanji.

Not really, the burden of proof lays on you, you can give me one thing zoro could do and I would explain why it is useless, the parasite were strong enough to restrict people like juzo who was reflecting mihawk's strongest slash with pure force, zoro is no way in hell going to break them. As for avoiding them, again sanji who had better CoO sensing tashigi(knowing she was there) was caught by it, plus zor's reaction had its own downs, carrot and yeti brothers for instance.

 

[A v i]

Like what? What scans portray this exactly. I'm genuinely curious as to what scans show Fuji being far stronger than Doflamingo.

The fact that legends like Sengoku and Tsuru feeling like he doesn't need any assistance in taking on every single individual who contributed in defeating DD's family when just two of them is all it took to defeat Doflamingo? You can count fodders if your want but it makes no difference. When you lost against a force and someone else is sent to take care of even stronger force with the belief that he can take the force down then it'd mean the later is much more capable than the former.

 

[Punk Hazard]

The fact that legends like Sengoku and Tsuru feeling like he doesn't need any assistance in taking on every single individual who contributed in defeating DD's family when just two of them is all it took to defeat Doflamingo?

And the legion of Marines he had at his disposal, but yeah "by himself."

You can count fodders if your want but it makes no difference. When you lost against a force and someone else is sent to take care of even stronger force with the belief that he can take the force down then it'd mean the later is much more capable than the former.

Like when Doffy had the belief that Pica could defeat everyone on Dressrosa.

Now give me some feats.

 

[A v i]

And the legion of Marines he had at his disposal, but yeah "by himself."

He had none when went to fight them. All the reinforcements were ordered to retreat as they'll get in his way.

Like when Doffy had the belief that Pica could defeat everyone on Dressrosa.

Now give me some feats.

Doflamingo is no Tsuru though. Doflamingo simply made a baseless assumption, where as, Fujitora was present at Dressrosa when they fought and defeated the family. Not to mention the whole world knows Doflamingo was defeated by Luffy and Law, Yet someone as knowledgeable as Tsuru thought Fujitora is suffice to take them out.

So you're dismissing the possibility that sanji might have been able to push fujitoura just because he couldn't do it doffy? We don't even know which one is physically stronger and you're already there?:lol so much for analysis.

I am dismissing nothing. Fujitora is stronger than Doflamingo by all means and so are his attacks. If he can fodderize someone then so can Fujitora. It seems like you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Doflamingo fodderized people of Zoro's caliber so same will happen to Zoro. But whether or not he'll fall for parasite is an entirely different story.

Like I said, If his reflex wasn't good enough to cut carrot or even react to the yeti brothers who are far weaker than doffy, then there's nothing to discuss going by your own logic. [/quote

]

This is soo lame that I am not even sure if I should laugh at this or just ignore it. Luffy lost to Caesar, the same dude pushed Doflamingo to his limits. When a strong character failed against a far weaker one, it means that he's either holding back or that he'd off guard. It's not Zoro's style to go all out on a completely strange individual unless he's sure the opponent is strong. Hell he didn't even bother using black hardening against a marine f***ing admiral. And you want to tell me he'd go all out against freaking Carrot? Zoro had the portrayal of surviving a skirmish with a marine admiral without so much as a dent on his body. So, this argument means nothing unless you want to tell me Carroot Fujitora which in turn would mean Doflamingo is less capable than Carrot.

Sure, but sanji's performance against doffy is directly reflective of his potential performance against doffy? isn't this baised?

I am not sure what you're trying to say, Sanji lost to Doflamingo plain and clear. There is nothing to overlook or be biased about it.

Lol you could easily disprove this by saying luffy reacted to mihawk in marineford, but of course you're going discard the fact that kuma was not trying kill the strawhat, and this as later evident by him rescuing them in shabondy. Not to mention, how were kuma's pads anything special? or are you one of those people who believe they move at light speed?:elmo:

There is no evidence to say Mihawk was giving his best shot at MF. So, it holds no value here. Kuma mercilessly attacked Franky with pad canon and attempted to attack Zoro with the same. He even attacked them with an island level ursus shock and he let Zoro take Luffy's pain knowing very well that Zoro would most certainly be killed. So, he was fine with killing them if necessary. No, I don't believe they're LS but Kuma did hype them to be extremely fast. There is a reason why Oda hyped the point of them being extremely fast before having Zoro dodge them. It's to show how great his reflexes are, the attack came from a speed based fight and hyped the same for being extremely fast. So, the attack is certainly faster than anything we've seen from any opponent SH's have defeated as Kuma is on a whole never level to their pre skip enemies.

And zoro could do none, hence were having this argument right now

He never "waited" for luffy,plus I never claimed he caught law with it , I don't know you're mentioning him. Also doffy was also weakened.

to zoro it is

The point is , we don't know if he can't, Law and pre G4 Luffy are under same light as Zoro and Doflamingo didn't even bother making an attempt to use parasite until when Luffy became extremely weak. So......

Luffy was in a much weaker state than Doflamingo as noted by the heavenly demon himself.

Not really, the burden of proof lays on you, you can give me one thing zoro could do and I would explain why it is useless, the parasite were strong enough to restrict people like juzo who was reflecting mihawk's strongest slash with pure force, zoro is no way in hell going to break them. As for avoiding them, again sanji who had better CoO sensing tashigi(knowing she was there) was caught by it, plus zor's reaction had its own downs, carrot and yeti brothers for instance.

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me as I didn't say Zoro can counter it nor will I agree that he'd fall for it. The burden of proof lies on the who's conforming things here which would be you. As you're conforming it as though you're certain of it without presenting anything to back it up. As for Jozu, he never made a visible effort to break free so you can't say he couldn't break free. As for giving an argument, I can just say Zoro cut his strings and I am pretty certain your can't prove that he can't , Lol What the hell? It wasn't Mihawk's strongest slash. There is a limit to how much you try to down play a character.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

I am dismissing nothing. Fujitora is stronger than Doflamingo by all means and so are his attacks.

Prove this please

If he can fodderize someone then so can Fujitora.

Sure, but nothing suggests he can't be pushed just because the other wasn't

It seems like you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Doflamingo fodderized people of Zoro's caliber so same will happen to Zoro. But whether or not he'll fall for parasite is an entirely different story.

And what I'm saying is zoro is definitely going to fall for parastie

Luffy lost to Caesar, the same dude pushed Doflamingo to his limits.

Yes, and your analogy of sanji not being able to push fujioura because he didn't push doffy applies here as well

When a strong character failed against a far weaker one, it means that he's either holding back or that he'd off guard.

So you believe sanji was not caught off-guard nor was he holding back while fighting doffy?

It's not Zoro's style to go all out on a completely strange individual unless he's sure the opponent is strong.

It's not the style of anyone. Plus going all out has nothing to do with reacting to danger

Hell he didn't even bother using black hardening against a marine f***ing admiral.And you want to tell me he'd go all out against freaking Carrot?

Sanji didn't use his haki the entire new world period, that must mean that he was not serious, right? Well I guess sanji wan't serious against dofflamingo and vergo

Zoro had the portrayal of surviving a skirmish with a marine admiral without so much as a dent on his body. So, this argument means nothing unless you want to tell me Carroot Fujitora which in turn would mean Doflamingo is less capable than Carrot.[/FONT][/I]

Zoro was bleeding and breath heavily from a no named attack after barely resisting gravity. And yeah this argument means nothing, since pushing someone in who isin guard mode is one petty feat when pre skip apoo was able to bisect kizaru.

I am not sure what you're trying to say, Sanji lost to Doflamingo plain and clear. There is nothing to overlook or be biased about it.

You said luffy getting caught by it would not indicate anything regarding zoro but yet you use sanji;s poor performance against doffy to prove that he wouldn;t push fujitoura.

There is no evidence to say Mihawk was giving his best shot at MF. So, it holds no value here.

Of course it wasn;t his best, but it was his strongest slash

Kuma mercilessly attacked Franky with pad canon and attempted to attack Zoro with the same. He even attacked them with an island level ursus shock and he let Zoro take Luffy's pain knowing very well that Zoro would most certainly be killed.

Did those pads kill franky? hell they even damage him seriously? Also no one even died in that island, and as franky later on stated, kuma was trying to save them in the shabody incident so now unless that he magically changed his mind in such short period of time(despite knowing that kuma was working for luffy's father) then you can take this with a grain of salt

oh, and that "island level" attack was tanked by half dead sanji, brook and even few other fodders

So, he was fine with killing them if necessary.

?
further elaboration is needed here, why he save his targets after a short period of time and even save them from a pacifista if killing them was always his objective?

No, I don't believe they're LS but Kuma did hype them to be extremely fast.

Captain kuro was hype to be extremely fast, same with enel.

There is a reason why Oda hyped the point of them being extremely fast before having Zoro dodge them. It's to show how great his reflexes are, the attack came from a speed based fight and hyped the same for being extremely fast.

True but only by pre skip standards.

So, the attack is certainly faster than anything we've seen from any opponent SH's have defeated as Kuma is on a whole never level to their pre skip enemies.

Actually, pacifista lasers were seemingly as fast if their hype is all what you take into account.

The point is , we don't know if he can't, Law and pre G4 Luffy are under same light as Zoro and Doflamingo didn't even bother making an attempt to use parasite until when Luffy became extremely weak. So......

Didn't attempt does not equal to not being able to. And them being under ths ame "light" is all your own interpretation, I believe they both high diff.

Even if we were to say those three were equal, that would simply not mean that they could all counter it.

Luffy was in a much weaker state than Doflamingo as noted by the heavenly demon himself.

Can you post the panel where he says that he is in a better shape than luffy

[

I]
The burden of proof doesn't lie on me as I didn't say Zoro can counter it nor will I agree that he'd fall for it.

Let me remind you that I said "by feats, zoro has nothing that can deal wih parasite" and you quoted me denying this statement, so again, you are the one denying this. We both know that zoro has nothing that can deal with as far as the manga goes, but your reasoning is built on your own opinion of zoro's portrayal therefore the burden of proof lies on you

The burden of proof lies on the who's conforming things here which would be you. As you're conforming it as though you're certain of it without presenting anything to back it up.

There is nothing to proof in my case, zoro has no feats that can make it counter those and we do know hat reflex wise he

cannot cut carrot easily
could not react to the yeti brother from a far distance

As for Jozu, he never made a visible effort to break free so you can't say he couldn't break free.

why is he sweating then?Also the lines on the edges of his body indicate movement or struggle to do something.

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s for giving an argument, I can just say Zoro cut his strings and I am pretty certain your can't prove that he can't ,

He can cut them with what? his yeti brothers-don't-know-wtf-it-is ass reflex?
Told you already with that kind of reflex he cannot do that, and the string could not be broken by juzo who is physically superior therefore zoro is not cutting it.

Lol What the hell? It wasn't Mihawk's strongest slash. There is a limit to how much you try to down play a character.

[/I]

Oda specifically named it "The world's strongest slash"

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I can't be bothered with excuses, it is described as so therefore it is the strongest. Maybe mihawk had more going on with the usage of haki and all but as far as manga goes, the slash is canonically named the strongest, I don't see why oda would bother writing if it;s not the case.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Doflamingo is no Tsuru though. Doflamingo simply made a baseless assumption, where as, Fujitora was present at Dressrosa when they fought and defeated the family. Not to mention the whole world knows Doflamingo was defeated by Luffy and Law, Yet someone as knowledgeable as Tsuru thought Fujitora is suffice to take them out.

So what? Tsuru and Sengoku weren't there and had no idea what he could do. Doflamingo's own people were unaware of some of his powers, including Viola, who literally sees everything in the country. It's not farfetched that Tsuru and Sengoku don't know everything about Doffy, and they certainly didn't know everything about Luffy. Their confidence is just as baseless as Doffy's.

I am dismissing nothing. Fujitora is stronger than Doflamingo by all means and so are his attacks. If he can fodderize someone then so can Fujitora. It seems like you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Doflamingo fodderized people of Zoro's caliber so same will happen to Zoro. But whether or not he'll fall for parasite is an entirely different story.

Gear 2 and 3 bruised Fujitora when Fujitora was using just his physical strength and had him panting and pushed him backwards. Meanwhile, the same Gears were too weak for Doflamingo. This shows that Fujitora is physically inferior to Doflamingo.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Prove this please

Sure, but nothing suggests he can't be pushed just because the other wasn't

And what I'm saying is zoro is definitely going to fall for parastie



Yes, and your analogy of sanji not being able to push fujioura because he didn't push doffy applies here as well

So you believe sanji was not caught off-guard nor was he holding back while fighting doffy?

It's not the style of anyone. Plus going all out has nothing to do with reacting to danger

Sanji didn't use his haki the entire new world period, that must mean that he was not serious, right? Well I guess sanji wan't serious against dofflamingo and vergo

Zoro was bleeding and breath heavily from a no named attack after barely resisting gravity. And yeah this argument means nothing, since pushing someone in who isin guard mode is one petty feat when pre skip apoo was able to bisect kizaru.

You said luffy getting caught by it would not indicate anything regarding zoro but yet you use sanji;s poor performance against doffy to prove that he wouldn;t push fujitoura.


Of course it wasn;t his best, but it was his strongest slash

Did those pads kill franky? hell they even damage him seriously? Also no one even died in that island, and as franky later on stated, kuma was trying to save them in the shabody incident so now unless that he magically changed his mind in such short period of time(despite knowing that kuma was working for luffy's father) then you can take this with a grain of salt

oh, and that "island level" attack was tanked by half dead sanji, brook and even few other fodders
?
further elaboration is needed here, why he save his targets after a short period of time and even save them from a pacifista if killing them was always his objective?

Captain kuro was hype to be extremely fast, same with enel.

True but only by pre skip standards.

Actually, pacifista lasers were seemingly as fast if their hype is all what you take into account.



Didn't attempt does not equal to not being able to. And them being under ths ame "light" is all your own interpretation, I believe they both high diff.

Even if we were to say those three were equal, that would simply not mean that they could all counter it.

Can you post the panel where he says that he is in a better shape than luffy

[
Let me remind you that I said "by feats, zoro has nothing that can deal wih parasite" and you quoted me denying this statement, so again, you are the one denying this. We both know that zoro has nothing that can deal with as far as the manga goes, but your reasoning is built on your own opinion of zoro's portrayal therefore the burden of proof lies on you

There is nothing to proof in my case, zoro has no feats that can make it counter those and we do know hat reflex wise he

cannot cut carrot easily
could not react to the yeti brother from a far distance


why is he sweating then?Also the lines on the edges of his body indicate movement or struggle to do something.

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He can cut them with what? his yeti brothers-don't-know-wtf-it-is ass reflex?
Told you already with that kind of reflex he cannot do that, and the string could not be broken by juzo who is physically superior therefore zoro is not cutting it.

Oda specifically named it "The world's strongest slash"

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I can't be bothered with excuses, it is described as so therefore it is the strongest. Maybe mihawk had more going on with the usage of haki and all but as far as manga goes, the slash is canonically named the strongest, I don't see why oda would bother writing if it;s not the case.

Some random fodder said it was the strongest slash, so it must be true.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Some random fodder said it was the strongest slash, so it must be true.

Random fodders said alot of things in the manga considered facts, plus I'd rather take the words of a fodder made to say something by oda than have you random ass people tell me about how weak that slash was

That space on the bubble could have been used for something else, but it is used to describe a slash mihawk aimed at Whitebeard, that's quite ignore-able I must say.

 

[Bogard]

So basically the new excuses are

> Fujitora is physically inferior to Doflamingo(when he blocked Doflamingo's kick without even trying, blocked Sabo's fire kick while coming at full force, who has the physical strength to match if not best a powerhouse like Burgess, and so on, but hey let's ignore)
> Zoro couldn't react to Yeti Cool Brothers(when he was careless and caught off-guard, with Sanji also being among the mass, but hey let's ignore it) and Carrot(that he actually blocked)
> Sanji could have pushed Fujitora back(ignoring that someone of comparable physical stats in Law was blocked by a weaker gravity)
> Zoro would be immobilized by Doflamingo's finger strings(they are apparently stronger than Fujitora's gravity now)

The circus keeps on getting amusing by the second

At this point, i can even add mine

> Hyouzou was physically stronger and faster than Doflamingo(he could react to gear2 that was blitzing DD and with the white transformation he was countless times stronger)
> Monet was faster than Doflamingo(she could block Luffy mid gear2 gatling, when Doflamingo couldn't react to a bazooka)
> Pica was physically stronger than Doflamingo too(because why not?)

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Random fodders said alot of things in the manga considered facts, plus I'd rather take the words of a fodder made to say something by oda than have you random ass people tell me about how weak that slash was

That space on the bubble could have been used for something else, but it is used to describe a slash mihawk aimed at Whitebeard, that's quite ignore-able I must say.

Do you also believe that Luffy is an 8 foot tall monster? The readers generally do know more than fodders in the series.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Spoiler

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Fujitora being pushed back by Gear 2

Spoiler

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Doflamingo's clone swatting away Gear 2

Can't deny what's in the manga.

The fact of the matter is that Oda isn't drawing the manga with "These guys are gonna compare everything online in VS battles." He draws whatever he thinks is gonna be entertaining. That leads to feats that are sometimes contradictory and inconclusive, and this is such an occasion.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Spoiler

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Fujitora being pushed back by Gear 2

Spoiler

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Doflamingo's clone swatting away Gear 2

Can't deny what's in the manga.

That wasn't a Gear 2 attack.

 

[Punk Hazard]

That wasn't a Gear 2 attack.

The smoke surrounding his arm says otherwise.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

The smoke surrounding his arm says otherwise.

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I guess Luffy developed G2 when he fought Alvida.

 

[Punk Hazard]

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I guess Luffy developed G2 when he fought Alvida.

Not even close to the amount of smoke Gear 2 makes. The panel with Doffy, however, matches that amount of smoke.