[Discussion] Strongest person these people can defeat

[Uzumaki Macho]

Zoro has also fought people significantly weaker than the Monster Trio for the entirety of the timeskip. Swap the people they fought, and the exact same things would have happened.

Zoro wouldn't have been losing to Vergo.

 

[chintu234]

Zoro would have straight up cut him in pieces if he was against vergo.
Zoro's haki was darker than Vergo's which means it was stronger.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I used to use the same excuse, until Zoro had a scuffle with a Marine Admiral and performed better than Sanji did against weaker opponents.

Zoro didn't perform better against Fujitora than Sanji did against Doflamingo.

Zoro wouldn't have been losing to Vergo.

If his body was damaged to the point that Nami could cause it to slump to the ground in pain, then yeah, he would have.

 

[Bogard]

Lol at same things would have happened if they switched opponents because i said so. Sanji clashes with Doflamingo, uses his high end attacks, unable to push him an inch back. Zoro uses a one handed slash on a stronger opponent, pushes him several meters back. He'd have overpowered Vergo. He may have lost to Doflamingo though, but he'd have put up a better fight, i guarantee it. Concurrently concerning Zoro's opponents, while it's true he'd have defeated Monet without much trouble, portrayal counts here. Tashigi saw Sanji fight Vergo, but the one who astonished her by his strength was Zoro.

Furthermore, Zoro may have defeated Pica without much troubles, but Zoro isn't Sanji. It's like saying Vergo is weak because Law cut him in half the moment he got his heart back. Someone who is weak comparatively to Zoro doesn't make him weak comparatively to Sanji. He looked weak because Zoro was that strong. Pica specifically was hyped as the strongest top executive on dressrosa with Viola saying he is the most dangerous one, with Fujitora calling him "dangerous", with him being portrayed as a threat to the entire coloseum fighters, Bartolomeo, Kyros, and so on.

If we placed Sanji against Zoro's opponents, even if he won(i'm still iffy in him defeating Pica, but let's say he can), he'd have won with higher level of difficulty, not only because he is much weaker than Zoro, but he doesn't have the same skillset as him to take on his opponents. Sanji may be a monster trio level fighter, but that's because they are top 3 strongest as far as the crew is concerned. It doesn't mean they are equals. He isn't even in the conversation as far as it goes with the worst generation in the overall grand scheme ever since the timeskip started.

> FI Luffy and Zoro defeated the antagonists(Hody and Decken) at the beginning of the arc in handicaped positions(in ropes, underwater). Luffy also clashed with Zoro and Sanji's end arcs opponents respectively(Hyouzou and Wadatsumi), the former who wasn't for anyone(only hired by Hody against money) when the latter was Decken's subordinate, the former gaining his respect by countering his jet pistol, poisoning him, and called "strong" by him, the latter swat aside like a fly by same jet pistol with Decken calling "useless as always".

At the end of the arc, Wadatsumi ate a single pill(that didn't even seem to affect him anymore by the end of the fight) when Hyouzou ate dozens of them, undergoing a transformation that was highlighted similarly to Luffy's opponent's.

All this to say Hyouzou was portrayed vastly superior to Wadatsumi. Sanji needed the strongest post-timeskip attack he showed yet to take him out and that was after him already be weakened by Jinbei's attack who was tag teaming with him, when Zoro defeated Monster Hyouzou with a single rengoku onigiri. So basically Sanji put more effort in a team battle against a weaker opponent than Zoro did by himself against a stronger opponent who was highlighted similarly to Luffy's opponent

> Punk Hazard, the main antagonists were Caesar, Monet and later Vergo. Sanji wasn't even put in the conversation of protagonist-antagonists battle, which were reserved for Luffy, Law and Zoro respectively. In before Sanji fought Vergo, yes he did, but he wasn't reserved for him, he was reserved for Law. That's why while clashing with him, it didn't end well for him, because he was an opponent destinated to be defeated by Law's hands. Luffy defeated Caesar. Zoro defeated Monet. Law defeated Vergo. Sanji defeated no one

> Dressrosa. Same story continues. The ones defeating the main antagonists are Luffy, Law, Zoro. Sanji clashed with Doflamingo, didn't end well for him as an opponent reserved for Luffy. Zoro also clashed with Fujitora, but he wasn't an arc antagonist. Law also clashed with Doflamingo repetedly, but he was reserved for Luffy. Pica being reserved for Zoro. Trebol being reserved for Law. Zoro received similar portrayal to Law when they defeated Pica and Vergo respectively(cutting through the full body haki of the strongest top executives while cutting through mountains)

> Zou, we have Capone who manages to capture the entire crew in a mission he wasn't even allowed to hurt Sanji and Sanji did nothing until he realized his family's name could save him and that Nekomamushi was there to help his friends escape

Now comes the cake island arc, so maybe he'd get some amount of redemption especially without Law and Zoro there, but the excuses concerning his lower portrayal comparatively to Zoro in particular with the others of the supernova trio needs to stop. It's embarassing at this point

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lol at same things would have happened if they switched opponents because i said so. Sanji clashes with Doflamingo, uses his high end attacks, unable to push him an inch back. Zoro uses a one handed slash on a stronger opponent, pushes him several meters back. He'd have overpowered Vergo.

The reason Fujitora was pushed back while Doflamingo wasn't is because Doflamingo, unlike Fujitora, is a physical, body based fighter. Fujitora relies on the tremendous power of his fruit, while Doflamingo relies on the tremendous power of his body to compliment a decent-powered fruit. It makes sense that Doflamingo would remain stationary and Fujitora would be pushed back not because the gap between Sanji and Zoro is so great, but because of something you say below:

If we placed Sanji against Zoro's opponents, even if he won(i'm still iffy in him defeating Pica, but let's say he can), he'd have won with higher level of difficulty, not only because he is much weaker than Zoro, but he doesn't have the same skillset as him to take on his opponents.

That bolded part applies for Doflamingo and Fujitora as well. They respond to enemy attacks differently because they have different skillsets. Fujitora's physical skillset is at the point where Gear 2 Luffy can knock him backwards several meters several times while Fujitora is blocking.

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Meanwhile, Doflamingo is capable of swatting away those same attacks without his body budging an inch. And before you say "Those aren't named attacks," there's literally no difference, a Jet Pistol is just a punch. It can be weak enough to not hurt Pica or strong enough to repel Fujitora a couple feet because he can just change how much effort he puts into each punch.

We even see Fujitora panting after clashing with Luffy using Gear 2 and 3, Gears that were "too weak" for Doflamingo because of his physical strength.

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The gap between Fujitora's and Doflamingo's physical strength is inconsistent with the gap between their overall strengths. By feats and portrayal, Doflamingo has greater physical strength even though Fujitora is overall stronger. Comparisons based on how they do in a situation that requires physical strength is gonna be inconsistent with their actual overall standings because their skillsets are geared differently. Either that, or Oda is just inconsistent with how he portrays characters, which very well may be the case considering Monet's snow wall also blocked Gear 2 attacks that were pushing Fujitora backwards. Either way shows that it isn't so cut and dry since Oda isn't writing the manga with strangers arguing over who is stronger in mind.

He may have lost to Doflamingo though, but he'd have put up a better fight, i guarantee it. Concurrently concerning Zoro's opponents, while it's true he'd have defeated Monet without much trouble, portrayal counts here. Tashigi saw Sanji fight Vergo, but the one who astonished her by his strength was Zoro.

Of course Tashigi was more impressed, Sanji was vastly weakened by the time he fought Vergo. You have no way of knowing that she wouldn't have been impressed if Sanji was able to perform at his very best. There's also no one of knowing she'd have been impressed if she saw Zoro fought Vergo, who wouldn't have been intimidated and easily defeated like Monet was, which is the reason Tashigi was impressed in the first place.

 

[Mori Jin]

How has sanji had stronger opponents then Zoro?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Zoro didn't perform better against Fujitora than Sanji did against Doflamingo.


If his body was damaged to the point that Nami could cause it to slump to the ground in pain, then yeah, he would have.

Zoro wouldn have been that damaged by a few of CC's attacks.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Zoro wouldn have been that damaged by a few of CC's attacks.

If Nami was in his body like the case with Sanji, yeah, probably.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

If Nami was in his body like the case with Sanji, yeah, probably.

Why does that matter? His body would still be as durable as it was before. When Sanji was trying to save Kin'emon, he was having some problems since Nami's body couldn't handle Sky Walk. The body's durability stays the same.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why does that matter? His body would still be as durable as it was before. When Sanji was trying to save Kin'emon, he was having some problems since Nami's body couldn't handle Sky Walk. The body's durability stays the same.

You still have to actually dodge or be on guard to an attack. Normal-ass knockout bombs KOd Zoro on impact because he wasn't on guard. If you aren't guard, then some attacks will be able to hurt you worse than if you were on guard. Same reason why there are people that, when on guard, can take multiple punches and then got dropped by one well-placed sucker punch.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

You still have to actually dodge or be on guard to an attack. Normal-ass knockout bombs KOd Zoro on impact because he wasn't on guard. If you aren't guard, then some attacks will be able to hurt you worse than if you were on guard. Same reason why there are people that, when on guard, can take multiple punches and then got dropped by one well-placed sucker punch.

Nami was on guard though since she knew Caesar was about to attack.

 

[A v i]

Zoro didn't perform better against Fujitora than Sanji did against Doflamingo.

You still don't give up on this lame excuse? :yeah:

 

[Punk Hazard]

Nami was on guard though since she knew Caesar was about to attack.

And Nami would be able to properly use Sanji's body, how? Just having your legs being a little longer could cause you to look like a newborn deer and break your neck on the stairs. With a body that is built completely different than her own, it's highly unlike that Nami would be able to use Sanji's body properly

 

[TRE MERCER]

Zoro has also fought people significantly weaker than the Monster Trio for the entirety of the timeskip. Swap the people they fought, and the exact same things would have happened.

Zoro would not have got beaten by Vergo. Nor would he would have gotten no diffed by DD.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

And Nami would be able to properly use Sanji's body, how? Just having your legs being a little longer could cause you to look like a newborn deer and break your neck on the stairs. With a body that is built completely different than her own, it's highly unlike that Nami would be able to use Sanji's body properly

Using this logic, Sanji shouldn't have been able to use Geppo in Nami's body. I still doubt that Zoro would have one of his bones or swords broken by Vergo.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Zoro would not have got beaten by Vergo. Nor would he would have gotten no diffed by DD.

Huh? zoro literary has no feats that can make him resist the parasite, therefore he gets stomped just like sanji, g2/3 luffy and practically law as well

 

[Punk Hazard]

Using this logic, Sanji shouldn't have been able to use Geppo in Nami's body. I still doubt that Zoro would have one of his bones or swords broken by Vergo.

Actually, Sanji himself here expresses doubt that it could work in her body, and surmised that trying it anyways would be a lot of toll on her muscles. Which just proves my point that using and being in someone else's body means you may not be as effective as in your own because it's built differently.

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[Uzumaki Macho]

Actually, Sanji himself here expresses doubt that it could work in her body, and surmised that trying it anyways would be a lot of toll on her muscles. Which just proves my point that using and being in someone else's body means you may not be as effective as in your own because it's built differently.

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I'm pretty sure that's just because Nami's body isn't strong enough to use Geppo.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'm pretty sure that's just because Nami's body isn't strong enough to use Geppo.

And that's just one form of someone's body being so different from yours that you can't use it probably

 

[A v i]

Huh? zoro literary has no feats that can make him resist the parasite, therefore he gets stomped just like sanji, g2/3 luffy and practically law as well

Do you even understand how useless this " He has no feats argument is?" There is noway to present feats when Zoro never fought Doflamingo. On a contrary to what you said you have no way to prove Doffy can catch Zoro or that Zoro can't avoid/break free out of parasite. So, no one gets the benefit of doubt here. Zoro definitely loses to Doflamingo by portrayal but parasite is a different story.

And that's just one form of someone's body being so different from yours that you can't use it probably

Sanji didn't say anything about not being able to use her body properly. He was just wondering if her delicate body can handle such pressure. However, this won't be the case for Nami as Sanji's body can withstand about anything Nami can hope to do. She even noted that she survived that blast because of Sanji's stronger body which offered better resistance than her own. Regardless, if the said wounds are soo insignificant that even a weak individual like Nami can walk around without any trouble, I am pretty certain Sanji can handle it with no problem at all. Oda never emphasize his prior damage in his fight with Vergo. He'd have made sure to do so if he wanted to use it as an excuse for what happened to Sanji. But he never did it. It's time to see the light.