[VS] Blackbeard vs Akainu

[ToshiZO]

Same thing once again. Whether he feared Akainu or not is irrelevant. He felt it wasn't worth it to fight Akainu or Shanks yet. The same thing could not be said when he decided to engage Garp and Sengoku combined.

Its about portrayal, don't know how many times I have to say it.

Is Pre ts BB gonna defeat Garp and Sengoku combined? Hell no.

That's taking things way to literally, portrayal is not about that.

Not to mention Bogard you have used this same point to say Akainu > Sengoku before, or something along those lines. At the very least I have seen you use this point against Sengoku.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

BB refuses to fight Shanks=hype for Shanks mainly because he is a yonko

BB refuses to fight Akainu=a bunch of alternate reasons because he is an admiral and people want to say Yonko>Admiral(on another level).

 

[Bogard]

Same thing once again. Whether he feared Akainu or not is irrelevant. He felt it wasn't worth it to fight Akainu or Shanks yet. The same thing could not be said when he decided to engage Garp and Sengoku combined.

Its about portrayal, don't know how many times I have to say it.

Is Pre ts BB gonna defeat Garp and Sengoku combined? Hell no.

That's taking things way to literally, portrayal is not about that.

Not to mention Bogard you have used this same point to say Akainu > Sengoku before, or something along those lines. At the very least I have seen you use this point against Sengoku.

I'm not disputing the superior portrayal Akainu got there. What i'm disputing is the gap there was 2years prior to use it as if it mattered with current evidences to say that while i believe Akainu was superior to Blackbeard preskip, i don't think the gap was huge and that he surpassed him over the timeskip for the other reasons i've listed

BB refuses to fight Shanks=hype for Shanks mainly because he is a yonko

BB refuses to fight Akainu=a bunch of alternate reasons because he is an admiral and people want to say Yonko>Admiral(on another level).

Actually i'm one of the few people who don't think BB feared only Shanks preskip either. He said "it's a little early to be fighting you guys". I don't know how people miss so much that he used the plural to describe all of them. It's in a group battle as a whole that he found that it was early and when you saw how weak Burgess has been portrayed to be even post-skip, we can understand why

 

[arv993]

So I dont see the problem here. Both BB and Akainu were isolated by Oda.

BB captures Ace - Akainu kills him

Zoro has a big ass scar going across his chest which he recieved from Mihawk.

Luffy has a similar one from Akainu.

This is why I don't get where the confidence comes from that it is guaranteed one beats the other, both have been placed as the top two antagonists, and Akainu certainly proved himself featwise to be at the pinnacle of One Piece, while BB was shown as growing and more of a future threat just like you said.

He is not the pinnacle of OP. BB in the future is and is almost there now. Kaido, WB, garp and roger are shown to be the highest level in OP in hype akainu is not the same lets not reach here now.

Its just that the arsenal BB has can deal with akainu effectively and has more hype going for him. and Oda failed to make akainu on the highest level b not allowing him to get a straight up victory against an old battered WB, i just dont see him n the same level. he is top 5 but not the best by any means.

BB refuses to fight Shanks=hype for Shanks mainly because he is a yonko

BB refuses to fight Akainu=a bunch of alternate reasons because he is an admiral and people want to say Yonko>Admiral(on another level).

Oh yea lets ignore the whole him being super cocky thing after gaining WB's power. shanks brought him down from his power high which is good hype but he gets better hype from clashing against WB and stopping akainu. back to the comparison how is it the same with a more experienced BB as a yonko. You're comparing apples to oranges due to the simple fact that its a completely different scenario.

 

[LBeezy]

@LBeezy

Im blown away that you tried to compare Mihawk walking away from the war (because his deal did not include fighting his buddy) to the Akainu situation lmfao, that is definitely the reach of the year on this forum for me. How desperate are you?

I'm not "desperate" at all.

And I'm sorry but you're wrong buddy.. the comparison is not a reach at all.. get a grip on facts please..

Mihawk fought Shanks back in the day.

BB fought Shanks back in the day.

Mihawk left when Shanks showed up.

BB left when Shanks showed up.

When BB left when Akainu appeared post time skip, he fled from the scene and avoided an unnecessary fight.

In any of these situations does it automatically mean that

Shanks > Mihawk ?
Shanks > BB ?
Akainu > BB ?

According to your delusional logic these are official all because one character chose to leave the scene and fight another day.. lol read the manga more carefully and also think with common sense.

You must hate Akainu with a passion to be that desperate, never seen anything like that from you anywhere else. To add to that your post just consisted of stating the obvious, and almost repeating what I said, I also never said BB was dumb lmao.

I don't like Akainu. You're right. But I have no problem at all admitting when he can defeat someone.. ask me about Akainu vs another character and I'd give you my honest opinion based on what we see from the manga.

I've seen you post many intelligent comments before in the past, so I'm a little shocked at your denial to cold hard facts, and the way you're approaching this topic of conversation right now.

And dude, I never said that YOU said BB was dumb.. tf?! I can't say that he's becoming smarter just to make that statement?

Here is what BB had to say infront of Shanks:

Spoiler

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Here is what he said when he ran from Akainu:

Spoiler

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You keep saying he is smart. Ok lol? That's the entire point, he picks who he thinks he can handle (is worth it) and who he doesn't think he can handle (isn't worth it) wisely.

Nope.. this is where you're wrong. You're looking at that in a negative way as if you hate BB.. why would you see that as him "picking who he THINKS he can or can't HANDLE"?
In his cocky mind he probably thinks he can win against Akainu.. (he certainly thought he could win against Garp and Sengoku.. Sengoku being FA at the time, above Akainu.. now same position as current Akainu) but why would he fight him then and there?

No seriously. Can you give me an answer and come up with a valid reason? Tell me, why would BB fight Akainu at that exact moment? How would that help benefit his goals? Why choose to fight, when it was easier and safer to avoid conflict at that time? Why?

Answer that please..

We already saw he had no issues with "injuries/casualties/losses/waste of time" when he decided to go against Garp and Sengoku, but as soon as Shanks pulled up he said he wasn't ready and pretty much the exact words were said when Akainu pulled up on him later alone.

Look how cocky he was against them

Spoiler

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Literally mocking them in their faces with supreme confidence that they could not stop him, and yet he wasn't ready for either Akainu or Shanks.

Its not hard to understand who received superior portrayal in this situation.

THIS just helps prove my point even further... lmao.. Sengoku at the time above Akainu. And post time skip Akainu is now in that position. Garp... well he's freakin Garp for crying out loud. If BB had no problem fighting them, you really think he would run away from Akainu out of fear? Fear of losing? HA! don't make me laugh.. use your brain pal.. seriously.. think about it.

Lmao all of you keep crying about hype when Akainu was literally the MVP of the War of the best. He had the most feats and focus in such a pivotal war with multiple top tiers.

In the single most important arc in One Piece regarding strength Akainu was at the absolute center of it, the one who easily stood out the most among legends and countless top tiers.

Show me manga scans stating Akainu was "MVP of the war" or didn't happen and is completely opinionated b.s.



"The most focus" ?!? When?? When did this happen? Lol "the absolute center" ? Yeah center of the earth maybe after WB sent him flying down south.. xd

Sorry buddy but the characters who fit that description the most would be Luffy, Ace (obviously) and WB.. Akainu was just one of the 3-4 top tiers the Marines had at their disposal.. and just like a dog he obeyed orders and nothing more..

Only time he "stood out the most among legends and countless top tiers" was when he shat himself at the sight of Red Haired Shanks..

#Facts

 

[Punk Hazard]

That's not the same thing bro..

Two fruits' whose power is being reputed like the end of the word, nah it's the same.

You act as though BB and Akainu will only fight with fists and physical combat.. lel.. I understand and agree with you that if Akainu and BB just fought like two normal people, then yes, Akainu would most likely have much better abilities in pure physical combat.

I keep going on about the DFs though, because realistically that is how Akainu and BB will fight.

It's actually the opposite of both of these. YOU are the one acting like it'd be a fight where they'd just stand there chucking DF abilities at each other, as the only argument you've been able to provide in the five pages of this thread are "Hur dur Teach's fruits."

I'm not ONLY basing the outcome off hype alone though.. I literally stated straight feats/manga facts in my first post of this thread on page 1.. based on portrayal from Oda BB is superior to Akainu.

What portrayal suggests this? By portrayal, Akainu has the advantage in physical prowess and experience. By Devil Fruit portrayal, Akainu has, by feats, shown he can match the power of the Gura Gura no Mi. Ace was able to exploit weaknesses and holes in the usage of the Yami Yami no Mi to land hits on Blackbeard, and by portrayal, Ace isn't even in Akainu's ballpark. Meaning Akainu will be able to exploit those same holes and weaknesses. There is no portrayal that puts Teach higher than Akainu.

Everyone also likes to conveniently ignore hype when it doesn't fit there opinion.. but love to use hype when it does.. when it comes to Kaido or Roger or even Mihawk, "HYPE" is pretty valid to use.. BB is included in this list at this point in the manga I'm sorry..

The hype you're talking about with Teach is related to his Devil Fruit abilities only. That hype means NOTHING because Akainu, by feats and portrayal, is capable of handling both Devil Fruits in every aspect and property.

Who else has TWO DFs?!?! When supposedly it is impossible to have two... not to mention the two DFs are 1

This is irrelevant to battle. Teach having two Devil Fruits is not a feat, nor is it hype. It was credited to Teach having an atypical body structure. What, is his atypical body structure going to unique Akainu to death? Teach achieving two Devil Fruits has absolutely nothing to do with his combat ability.

The Gura Gura no Mi which is capable of destroying the world and formerly belonged to the strongest man in the world.

Which Akainu has shown to be able to combat against equally.

2. The Yami Yami no Mi which can literally cancel out a DF users ability like sea stone.

Which has been shown multiple times to fail in battle for one reason or another, with all the reasons being applicable to Akainu as well.

So, meaningless argument is meaningless.

The hype AND feats are there.. you just choose not to see them because you favor Akainu..

Hype and feats are there, and Akainu has shown hype and feats that match Teach's. So it isn't favoring anyone.

But Akainu's hype AND feats are no where near BB.. and any title he's had so far has been shared with either Sengoku, 1.. or FOUR other people.. Akainu is nothing special in the OP world.. I'm sorry..

What feat has Teach shown that gives him an edge over Akainu? And by this, I mean a feat or hype that Akainu has never shown or been indicated to be able to match or get around. This excludes both the Gura Gura no Mi and the Yami Yami no Mi btw.

PLUS you YOURSELF, Riker, have mentioned before that WB would not be the strongest man if not for his DF.. so what do you think BB is capable of being with that same DF, AND another one that cancels DF users abilities?

What does this matter?

Mihawk ran away from MF when Shanks arrived.. because Shanks arrived and he didn't want to fight him.. yet Mihawk holds the title for world's strongest swordsman.. but based on your logic you're saying that Shanks > Mihawk ?

Not the same thing. Mihawk has been shown to be very disobedient to the WG and doesn't respect the responsibilities that come with being a Shichibukai. Doflamingo mentioned that Mihawk rarely ever answered the WG's calls, almost never showing up to the meetings. So him even agreeing to fight in a war for them when he had nothing to personally gain from it is a pretty big deal and him going very far out of his way. The deal he was there for was to fight with the WG to ensure that Ace's execution was successful. By the time Shanks showed up, the Whitebeard Pirates were surrendering and Ace's execution was accomplished, meaning Mihawk fulfilled the parameters of his deal. Why would Mihawk stick around to fight his friend for the WG, the entity he rarely ever listens to to, and take part in parameters that extend beyond his deal?

Meanwhile, Teach left because he said he wasn't ready to fight Akainu. Not at all the same thing.

Kuzan freezing ocean and Teach shaking islands aren't even remotely same thing. I am not even use how you can compare the two. Only thing they have in common is that they both are large scale attacks. GGnM attack carries a lot more DC than Kuzan's attack.

You're half correct here, with the exception of that last sentence which is completely incorrect with the two techniques we are comparing. You are correct in that they are different in nature, and that they are both large scale techniques. You are wrong, however, in that the technique that tilts the air does more destruction. When WB used it, all it did was tilt the environment. People weren't injured by the Quake, and buildings were only damaged because they were tilted out of place. Tilting Akainu out of place isn't gonna injure him, as shown when John Giant, who was right next to Whitebeard as he did, received no damage from the tilting Quake. Everyone within the range of the tilting Quake were just fine and weren't injured in any way.

Kuzan's technique, which freezes everything within the range, is the opposite. While "destructive" isn't quite the most accurate word, it is far more harmful, as it has been established that being frozen by Kuzan will lead to death. Considering that it was indicated that Doflamingo managed to narrowly break out before his heart was frozen, we can rest assured that it'd take less than a week for people frozen in the attack to end up dead.

Kuzan's large scale move causes more harm to those affected than WB's(which should be pretty goddamn obvious since he stretched it so much, his own crew, allies, and ACE HIMSELF were within the range), and he still lost to Akainu, so the range of the tilt means absolutely nothing.

I wasn't talking about range alone, I am not stupid enough to believe bigger AOE means stronger attacks. WB's attack didn't simply destroy buildings, it severely injured Akainu

Aight let's stop here first. It did NOT severely injure Akainu. People exaggerate the damage Akainu took from that Quake. Considering that it was shown that there was water on the bottom of the crevice WB created, if Akainu was as damaged as people say, then he would have fallen into the water and drowned.

Also, how weak does that make Marco, the WB commanders, and dozens of their pirates that a so called severely weakened Akainu fought them all by himself, and took no further damage? If Akainu, SEVERELY WEAKENED, could fend them off on his own, then why would defeating them be a good enough feat to warrant becoming Yonko? If Akainu, SEVERELY WEAKENED, could fend them off on his own, then that would just throw him ahead of Teach's level anyways, considering that a healthy Akainu should logically then be able to rolfstomp them like it's nobody's business.

and the byproduct of the attack ended up destroying MF building

Untrue. It was shown later on that Kuzan's office in the building didn't have a scratch. WB's attack only smashed up that front wall, it did not destroy the building.

as well as the ground in it's path. Kuzan ain't pulling that feat with his ocean freezing attack.

To the environment? No. But to people who freeze to death, yes. Kuzan's fruit isn't destructive, but it's harmful to those caught in it because they're made of flesh. Against flesh, the Hie Hie and Gura Gura are pretty much even when it comes to causing harm.

Those attacks of Akainu don't even come closer to the level of destruction caused by this one attack.

Yes, they did. The sheer size of the iceberg was dwarfing giants, who in turn were dwarfing buildings. Then bear in mind that the iceberg, which was dwarfing several of Marineford's large buildings, was only a portion of the total water frozen, and then Akainu went on to melt most of that water with his Meteor Volcano. The iceberg was the size of a mountain, and a single blast from Akainu evaporated the entire thing without leaving a single trace, and that was just a fraction of the total ice that Akainu went on to destroy.

Although it's irrelevant here, didn't Kuzan fail to freeze ocean before Law and co could get away? I guess it's safe to say ICE AGE that he used back then wasn't as deep as the one he used at the end of summit war.

It is irrelevant here, as the iceberg showed that Kuzan's freezing powers can do deep and far.

Regarding iceburg; Now,that's pure overrating of Akainu's feats. That shit isn't even as big as Wadatsumi. "Lmao, I can't stop laughing"

The iceberg is definitely bigger than Wadatsumi.

It's a fact that BB can counter about anything Akainu has to offer,

And Akainu can do the same thing to Blackbeard.

I am not sitting here and trying to say that BB will win this without receiving a dent on his body.

Except that Akainu's best attacks don't cause dents, they eviscerate you. Just a few of Akainu's major attacks can result in losing entire sections of your body, and if you think Teach isn't taking more than a few, then you're kidding yourself.

He isn't avoiding or countering all of his attacks for sure. BB is simply equipped with far better tools than Akainu in this fight.

Inaccurate, as Akainu has been portrayed by feats and powerscaling to be able to handle both of Teach's main abilities quite handily.

Teach doesn't lack in skill. Only reason why BB was wounded in his battles so far was because of his arrogance.

And that's what will ultimately get him killed against Akainu.

Even WB himself noted it. You talk as if BB actually made an attempt to block WB and failed. The attacks was simply unexpected for BB, hence he failed to block it. Power scaling doesn't suggest Akainu can get around the combo of GGnM and YYnM.

Yes, it does. Akainu took Whitebeard's Gura hits BOTH times without protection from his Devil Fruit, taking them raw due to WB's Haki which negated Akainu's Logia protection as the Yami Yami no Mi would, and was not severely weakened. When taking one raw, he was able to spring forward and cleave away WB's face. As it has been shown that Teach lacks the physical strength to match Whitebeard, it is far more likely that Akainu can take a Gura punch, break Teach's grip with his superior strength, and gain an advantage.

Just dealing with one of those is a headache let alone both. Akainu never matched a high end move from GGnM.

Incorrect. Akainu never CLASHED with a high end move from GGnMi with the MaManM, but he has demonstrated the same destructive power with his high end moves. It is therefore only logical that if they did clash he would match it.

All he accomplished while fighting WB is to match a level attacks that WB used on fodder marines. They seemingly didn't even cause quakes at a noticeable range.

And was Akainu not also using casual attacks when he matched WB's casual fodder Quakes? Akainu just held up his foot and flowed magma into it without even launching it, just having it explode on contact with the Quake. His leg wasn't even fully extended, but you talk as though it wasn't casual as well.

Akainu isn't equipped with weapons to surprise BB by pulling an attack out of nowhere. He mostly relies on his punches which'll get countered by BB akin to how he blocked WB. Black hole would slow him down. His ability gets taken away with one touch. He can disturb his balance via quake attacks and cause severe injuries. He can accomplish all of this just by being a bit more careful than what he usually does.

This is where you hurt yourself, with that last sentence. You just said in order for Teach to pull this off, he has to be a bit more careful than Teach actually is. Meaning for Blackbeard to pull off what you just said, he'd have to have the personality of someone who isn't Blackbeard. And I have bad news for what that means.

With all these drawbacks Akainu can still win when all he could do in reality is to be an even match for a Yonko who lost most of his strength.:yeah: Why can't he suck him into black hole again?

Same reason Teach couldn't just suck in Shanks or Whitebeard. Akainu would just be able to launch himself away from the pull.

@Sengoku panel; Sengoku attacked him out of nowhere, that too when BB was out of his mind. So, it isn't changing anything.

What do you mean by this'll never happen? Are you trying to say BB won't be careful with Akainu? Or that Akainu is magically immune to black hole?

You're the one acting like that will never happen, i.e., acting like Teach will never drop his guard or have a lapse in his defense/offense due to his arrogance against Akainu, which is ridiculous.

 

[LBeezy]

Two fruits' whose power is being reputed like the end of the word, nah it's the same.

Nah it's not the same at all..

People who are not top tier fighters, saying something might be "LIKE the end of the world" =/= a top tier reputable fighter stating factually "power that CAN DESTROY THE WORLD"

Read.

It's actually the opposite of both of these. YOU are the one acting like it'd be a fight where they'd just stand there chucking DF abilities at each other,

No I am not. But please do name a serious fight in One Piece in which you've seen Akainu or Teach fight WITHOUT using their DF.... that's my point.

as the only argument you've been able to provide in the five pages of this thread are "Hur dur Teach's fruits."

Show me where I said "Hur dur" pls. thx.

What portrayal suggests this? By portrayal, Akainu has the advantage in physical prowess and experience. By Devil Fruit portrayal, Akainu has, by feats, shown he can match the power of the Gura Gura no Mi. Ace was able to exploit weaknesses and holes in the usage of the Yami Yami no Mi to land hits on Blackbeard, and by portrayal, Ace isn't even in Akainu's ballpark. Meaning Akainu will be able to exploit those same holes and weaknesses. There is no portrayal that puts Teach higher than Akainu.

The portrayal I already mentioned in my first post on page 1..

The hype you're talking about with Teach is related to his Devil Fruit abilities only. That hype means NOTHING because Akainu, by feats and portrayal, is capable of handling both Devil Fruits in every aspect and property.

When have we seen Akainu handle the Yami Yami no Mi? When?

This is irrelevant to battle. Teach having two Devil Fruits is not a feat, nor is it hype. It was credited to Teach having an atypical body structure. What, is his atypical body structure going to unique Akainu to death? Teach achieving two Devil Fruits has absolutely nothing to do with his combat ability.

Are you serious bro? It is in fact HYPE. And it is in fact a FEAT. There's no denying that..
I wasn't saying that having two Devil Fruits alone is what puts him above Akainu though.. it's each DF and their powers and BB being able to use both.. and him having years to train with them..

Which Akainu has shown to be able to combat against equally.

Old sick WB wasn't as strong as he used to be. This is stated in manga by multiple characters.. meaning that a prime and healthy BB should be able to utilize the Gura Gura no Mi for its full prime potential.. and be stronger than what Akainu faced at MF..

This is just common sense..

Which has been shown multiple times to fail in battle for one reason or another, with all the reasons being applicable to Akainu as well.

Anything that happened with Ace vs Teach could've been lessons for Teach to learn from and improve his fighting style from..

Manga characters do train you know..

So, meaningless argument is meaningless.

Meaningful argument is meaningful.

Hype and feats are there, and Akainu has shown hype and feats that match Teach's. So it isn't favoring anyone.

False.

What feat has Teach shown that gives him an edge over Akainu? And by this, I mean a feat or hype that Akainu has never shown or been indicated to be able to match or get around. This excludes both the Gura Gura no Mi and the Yami Yami no Mi btw.

Again.. refer back to my first post on page 1 of this thread.

What does this matter?

You didn't answer my question.
Answer the question please.

Not the same thing. Mihawk has been shown to be very disobedient to the WG and doesn't respect the responsibilities that come with being a Shichibukai. Doflamingo mentioned that Mihawk rarely ever answered the WG's calls, almost never showing up to the meetings. So him even agreeing to fight in a war for them when he had nothing to personally gain from it is a pretty big deal and him going very far out of his way. The deal he was there for was to fight with the WG to ensure that Ace's execution was successful. By the time Shanks showed up, the Whitebeard Pirates were surrendering and Ace's execution was accomplished, meaning Mihawk fulfilled the parameters of his deal. Why would Mihawk stick around to fight his friend for the WG, the entity he rarely ever listens to to, and take part in parameters that extend beyond his deal?

Meanwhile, Teach left because he said he wasn't ready to fight Akainu. Not at all the same thing.

It's not the same exact thing of course..

But the point still stands that just because someone chooses to not fight another character, and leave the scene, doesn't mean that they are afraid or weaker.

That's the point. I really wonder how yall can't understand that.. it's really simple. Lol

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Nah it's not the same at all..

People who are not top tier fighters, saying something might be "LIKE the end of the world" =/= a top tier reputable fighter stating factually "power that CAN DESTROY THE WORLD"

Read.


No I am not. But please do name a serious fight in One Piece in which you've seen Akainu or Teach fight WITHOUT using their DF.... that's my point.

Show me where I said "Hur dur" pls. thx.




The portrayal I already mentioned in my first post on page 1..



When have we seen Akainu handle the Yami Yami no Mi? When?



Are you serious bro? It is in fact HYPE. And it is in fact a FEAT. There's no denying that..
I wasn't saying that having two Devil Fruits alone is what puts him above Akainu though.. it's each DF and their powers and BB being able to use both.. and him having years to train with them..





Old sick WB wasn't as strong as he used to be. This is stated in manga by multiple characters.. meaning that a prime and healthy BB should be able to utilize the Gura Gura no Mi for its full prime potential.. and be stronger than what Akainu faced at MF..

This is just common sense..



Anything that happened with Ace vs Teach could've been lessons for Teach to learn from and improve his fighting style from..

Manga characters do train you know..



Meaningful argument is meaningful.



False.




Again.. refer back to my first post on page 1 of this thread.



You didn't answer my question.
Answer the question please.



It's not the same exact thing of course..

But the point still stands that just because someone chooses to not fight another character, and leave the scene, doesn't mean that they are afraid or weaker.

That's the point. I really wonder how yall can't understand that.. it's really simple. Lol

"But the point still stands that just because someone chooses to not fight another character, and leave the scene, doesn't mean that they are afraid or weaker."

Then how come Shanks gets the special treatment and not Akainu? I can see go as far as to say that BB WALKED away from Shanks while he RAN away from Akainu. You even tried to use Mihawk to "prove" the difference between Akainu & Shanks which sounds desperate and petty.

WB was past his prime and sick? Well Akainu didn't use awakening and had to protect Marineford and we directly saw how his ability is capable to changing the climate and leaving everything a burning wasteland aka Punk Hazard....and you you tried to undermine Akainu's ability being compared to the end of the world.....

Even with BOTH sides were handicapped, Akainu easily matched WB's GGnM. He even stopped WB's gura bisento with one leg and both hands in his pockets.

Ace exploits the YYnM and Akainu completely outclasses Ace. Akainu easily matches WB's GGnM so how is BB using it so special? WB>BB in durability+endurance as well. Nothing puts BB above Akainu currently. If you want to say "BB will get stronger" then why are you bothering with debating so long?

 

[Punk Hazard]

No I am not. But please do name a serious fight in One Piece in which you've seen Akainu or Teach fight WITHOUT using their DF.... that's my point.

When did I say they didn't or would't use their Devil Fruits? I'm just arguing against the notion that their DFs are the only factors in this fight, a notion that has been persistent throughout this thread.

Show me where I said "Hur dur" pls. thx.

You're not this retarded.

The portrayal I already mentioned in my first post on page 1..

You mean this?

Blackbeard wins this.

You saw how easily Shanks blocked Akainu's punch... now, remember BB left that scar on Shanks and Shanks even said that he wasn't being careless in their fight either..

Shanks blocked a punch that was aiming for Coby. That's not really that impressive, considering that Akainu wouldn't put that much effort into punching a no-named brat. Akainu and WB clashed in the exact same way Shanks and WB clashed, so that dismisses this. This isn't even hype for Teach, considering he isn't Shanks.

Shanks became a Yonko before BB, but only because BB was patiently waiting to start his master plan. BB is a beast.. and obviously deserves his Yonko position.. and he earned it by a landslide, considering after WB died, there was barely any other pirate around that was worthy enough to take WB's Yonko seat..

Akainu received similar hype with Oda saying that if Akainu were a pirate, he'd be able to find the One Piece within a year, becoming Pirate King. Which is just as good as becoming a Yonko, especially when the Yonko in question is also aiming to become Pirate King, and has taken 20+ years to do so.

Akainu however, just baaaarrreeellllyyyy earned his most recent title.. considering Kuzan was very close to earning it as well..

The comparison isn't really the same, considering there's a far less pool to choose from when it comes to selecting Yonko and selecting Fleet Admiral. Add in the fact that becoming Fleet Admiral is a combination of leadership skills and battle prowess, it shows that FA is a completely separate ballpark from becoming Yonko. Also consider that becoming Yonko is also done by having a crew, and not individual strength(the feats Teach accomplished to become Yonko would have never been accomplished if Teach didn't have his crew), while the FA relied completely on individual ability just reinforces that the two concepts are far too different to be compared in this manner.

When have we seen Akainu handle the Yami Yami no Mi? When?

Note that I said feats and portrayal, which includes powerscaling. Ace was able to handle the Yami Yami no Mi, finding holes and weaknesses, so via powerscaling, Akainu should be able to do so a tremendously better rate of success, as he completely outclassed Ace.

Are you serious bro? It is in fact HYPE. And it is in fact a FEAT. There's no denying that..
I wasn't saying that having two Devil Fruits alone is what puts him above Akainu though.. it's each DF and their powers and BB being able to use both.. and him having years to train with them..

It's not a feat or hype though...you never said anything about him training the fruits you just said "WHO ELSE HAS TWO FRUITS" as though having two fruits is a feat or hype of combat prowess. If it doesn't relate to combat prowess, then it's worthless.

Old sick WB wasn't as strong as he used to be. This is stated in manga by multiple characters.. meaning that a prime and healthy BB should be able to utilize the Gura Gura no Mi for its full prime potential.. and be stronger than what Akainu faced at MF..

This is just common sense..

Of all the times it was stated that WB's abilities weakened, it was also specifically his stamina and reaction speed. Not once was it ever noted that his Devil Fruit powers weakened. Not to mention that WB achieved prime after years upon years without the fruit, while Teach is only at a fraction of that time with it. Also considering that Teach was able to unleash the same destructive powers as WB while himself saying he couldn't control it indicates the fruit is inherently that destructive, with training required to control the Quakes' power and not to increase it. This is especially notable because Teach was pulling the best Quakes right off the bat.

Anything that happened with Ace vs Teach could've been lessons for Teach to learn from and improve his fighting style from..

Manga characters do train you know..

Now you're going purely on speculation. "Teach COULD be this," which doesn't fly in debates, only what we know. I can just as easily say "Akainu COULD be able to fire off Magma fists that can vaporize entirely islands in one shot," and there are just as many panels to dispute this as there are to prove your claim that Teach isn't as reckless anymore(MF suggests otherwise).

You didn't answer my question.
Answer the question please.

The question is irrelevant.

It's not the same exact thing of course..

But the point still stands that just because someone chooses to not fight another character, and leave the scene, doesn't mean that they are afraid or weaker.

It does when they explicitly say they're leaving because they're not ready to battle that person.

 

[LBeezy]

Then how come Shanks gets the special treatment and not Akainu? I can see go as far as to say that BB WALKED away from Shanks while he RAN away from Akainu. You even tried to use Mihawk to "prove" the difference between Akainu & Shanks which sounds desperate and petty.

I'm sorry but this sounds like a beef between other members.. I've never said anything about Shanks and him getting "Special treatment" or any extra respect for BB leaving MF when he showed up.. I'm sorry but I think you have me confused with another member man.

You calling me "desperate and petty"? Really?

It's a simple comparison that proves my point very strongly.. just because one character chooses not to fight another character and leaves the scene, does not mean that it is out of fear, nor does it mean they are weaker.
I used Mihawk as an example cause it fit perfectly.. but bottom line is the point is simple and clear to understand.. I don't see how some of you guys can't comprehend it.

WB was past his prime and sick?

Yes.

Well Akainu didn't use awakening

True. But when have we EVER seen Akainu use awakening? Has it ever been stated in the manga that Akainu has awakened his DF? No. So you're assumption here is as equal as anyone saying that BB can use awakening.. and the crazy part is, he has TWO fruits to use.

and had to protect Marineford and we directly saw how his ability is capable to changing the climate and leaving everything a burning wasteland aka Punk Hazard....

All we know for sure is that that was the result of the ten day fight between him and Kuzan.. nowhere does it say Akainu used awakening.

and you you tried to undermine Akainu's ability being compared to the end of the world.....

HALF of an ISLAND is nothing compared to the WHOLE WORLD.

I'm not undermining anything bro. I'm just going off of what Oda has put in his manga.

WB has the power to destroy the world. That was stated.

But nothing like that was said for Akainu.. or any other character for that matter..

Even with BOTH sides were handicapped, Akainu easily matched WB's GGnM. He even stopped WB's gura bisento with one leg and both hands in his pockets.

Ace exploits the YYnM and Akainu completely outclasses Ace. Akainu easily matches WB's GGnM so how is BB using it so special? WB>BB in durability+endurance as well. Nothing puts BB above Akainu currently. If you want to say "BB will get stronger" then why are you bothering with debating so long?

"Easily" ? I didn't get that impression..


And correction: Ace exploitED the Yami Yami no Mi, ONCE.. and still lost, mind you..

You're comparing classes of Akainu to the Ace that fought BB with only the Yami Yami no Mi..

Why don't you compare the classes of Akainu to Sengoku and Garp whom fought BB while he had Yami Yami no Mi AND just received the Gura Gura no Mi?

Akainu doesn't "EASILY match" WB's ANYTHING bro.. I don't know what manga you're reading..


I'm not saying BB is using the GGnM specially, I'm just saying that he is healthy and in his prime. Therefore compared to what we saw at MF, we can expect to see the GGnM used to its prime potential and full power.. I'd say the same thing if we were to get a WB flashback of him in his prime.

Nothing puts Akainu above BB currently..

I'm not only saying that "BB will get stronger".. I'm saying that "BB has gotten stronger" as well..

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I'm sorry but this sounds like a beef between other members.. I've never said anything about Shanks and him getting "Special treatment" or any extra respect for BB leaving MF when he showed up.. I'm sorry but I think you have me confused with another member man.

You calling me "desperate and petty"? Really?

It's a simple comparison that proves my point very strongly.. just because one character chooses not to fight another character and leaves the scene, does not mean that it is out of fear, nor does it mean they are weaker.
I used Mihawk as an example cause it fit perfectly.. but bottom line is the point is simple and clear to understand.. I don't see how some of you guys can't comprehend it.




Yes.



True. But when have we EVER seen Akainu use awakening? Has it ever been stated in the manga that Akainu has awakened his DF? No. So you're assumption here is as equal as anyone saying that BB can use awakening.. and the crazy part is, he has TWO fruits to use.



All we know for sure is that that was the result of the ten day fight between him and Kuzan.. nowhere does it say Akainu used awakening.




HALF of an ISLAND is nothing compared to the WHOLE WORLD.

I'm not undermining anything bro. I'm just going off of what Oda has put in his manga.

WB has the power to destroy the world. That was stated.

But nothing like that was said for Akainu.. or any other character for that matter..



"Easily" ? I didn't get that impression..


And correction: Ace exploitED the Yami Yami no Mi, ONCE.. and still lost, mind you..

You're comparing classes of Akainu to the Ace that fought BB with only the Yami Yami no Mi..

Why don't you compare the classes of Akainu to Sengoku and Garp whom fought BB while he had Yami Yami no Mi AND just received the Gura Gura no Mi?

Akainu doesn't "EASILY match" WB's ANYTHING bro.. I don't know what manga you're reading..


I'm not saying BB is using the GGnM specially, I'm just saying that he is healthy and in his prime. Therefore compared to what we saw at MF, we can expect to see the GGnM used to its prime potential and full power.. I'd say the same thing if we were to get a WB flashback of him in his prime.

Nothing puts Akainu above BB currently..

I'm not only saying that "BB will get stronger".. I'm saying that "BB has gotten stronger" as well..

I said it SOUNDS desperate and petty because how is Mihawk even a factor? The marines won and Mihawk had absolutely no reason to fight Shanks, HIS FRIEND.

Ace was able to exploit the weakness of the YYnM by landing a DIRECT HIT. Even later in the fight, BB injuries piled up so Ace was still doing work. It was a hard fight for BB through n' through. If it was Akainu, who's attacks are way bigger and more devastating, BB would've been screwed.

Again, Akainu stopped WB's gura bisento(that he used two hands for and swung as hard as he could) with ONE LEG with BOTH HANDS IN HIS POCKETS. He mocked WB afterwards. WB countered Akainu's magma punch with a gura punch at close range and Akainu didn't receive a scratch. It was a complete stalemate with both men unable to go all out. Since WB's brute strength>BB, I don't see how Akainu is unable to match BB's GGnM.

If BB tires to suck Akainu in, Akainu can counter that move better than Ace did. If BB tires to use a gura punch, Akainu can match it like he did with WB, a MASTER GGnM user. Old WB>Gura+Yami BB.

 

[LBeezy]

When did I say they didn't or would't use their Devil Fruits? I'm just arguing against the notion that their DFs are the only factors in this fight, a notion that has been persistent throughout this thread.

Okay.. so are we saying the same thing now? Cause I don't see a disagreement on this particular part.

Shanks blocked a punch that was aiming for Coby. That's not really that impressive, considering that Akainu wouldn't put that much effort into punching a no-named brat. Akainu and WB clashed in the exact same way Shanks and WB clashed, so that dismisses this. This isn't even hype for Teach, considering he isn't Shanks.

It is hype for Teach.. see below vvvv

Akainu received similar hype with Oda saying that if Akainu were a pirate, he'd be able to find the One Piece within a year, becoming Pirate King. Which is just as good as becoming a Yonko, especially when the Yonko in question is also aiming to become Pirate King, and has taken 20+ years to do so.

This is extremely questionable and debatable and is open to so many questions that Oda did not go into detail about..

Would Akainu be a pirate?

Or would Akainu be an Admiral with the WG and Marines backing him up, and just woke up one day and said, "I think the One Piece really does exist and I want to find it"

See?.. it's too loose to use in this debate bro..

The comparison isn't really the same, considering there's a far less pool to choose from when it comes to selecting Yonko and selecting Fleet Admiral. Add in the fact that becoming Fleet Admiral is a combination of leadership skills and battle prowess, it shows that FA is a completely separate ballpark from becoming Yonko. Also consider that becoming Yonko is also done by having a crew, and not individual strength(the feats Teach accomplished to become Yonko would have never been accomplished if Teach didn't have his crew), while the FA relied completely on individual ability just reinforces that the two concepts are far too different to be compared in this manner.

I don't want to get into the whole "not one pirate can do _______ without their crew" thing.. because of course it's true.. but the same thing applies to a marine trying to become a FA.. they are not their own navigators.. they aren't their own doctor.. they aren't winning every battle alone, they have tons of other marines to help them.. they even sail through the calm belts because the WG grants them sea stone ships..

Bottom line is.. everyone needs other people to help them do things and get to where they want to be.. except maybe the title for world's strongest swordsman.. (that's if they trained themselves with no sensei and cooked for themselves and what not.. etc..)

But also while they have crews (whether pirates or marines) they also need to be strong to beat their one on one opponents when their dreams and goals are on the line..

It's safe to say that BOTH are necessary to become successful..

Note that I said feats and portrayal, which includes powerscaling. Ace was able to handle the Yami Yami no Mi, finding holes and weaknesses, so via powerscaling, Akainu should be able to do so a tremendously better rate of success, as he completely outclassed Ace.

Okay here we go.. when I said "see below"...

Based on powerscaling Teach was able to scar Shanks, and take WB's seat as a Yonko (Which entailed defeating the remaining WB pirates) and fight on even ground with Sengoku and Garp..

If Sengoku was above Akainu at the time.. based on powerscaling wouldn't Teach be above Akainu?

Cause everything I just said was feats and portrayal as well..

It's not a feat or hype though...

It is though...

you never said anything about him training the fruits you just said "WHO ELSE HAS TWO FRUITS" as though having two fruits is a feat or hype of combat prowess. If it doesn't relate to combat prowess, then it's worthless.

You're not this retarded.

Sometimes you just choose to throw common sense and logic out the window, just for the sake of debating. Even if you acknowledge facts deep down in your mind, you make it seem in our conversation that you dont, to play the Devils advocate and keep debating. Don't get me wrong you are great at what you do.. but I know you know wussup..

Of all the times it was stated that WB's abilities weakened, it was also specifically his stamina and reaction speed. Not once was it ever noted that his Devil Fruit powers weakened. Not to mention that WB achieved prime after years upon years without the fruit, while Teach is only at a fraction of that time with it. Also considering that Teach was able to unleash the same destructive powers as WB while himself saying he couldn't control it indicates the fruit is inherently that destructive, with training required to control the Quakes' power and not to increase it. This is especially notable because Teach was pulling the best Quakes right off the bat.

Truuuuuueee... no arguments here..

Now you're going purely on speculation. "Teach COULD be this," which doesn't fly in debates, only what we know. I can just as easily say "Akainu COULD be able to fire off Magma fists that can vaporize entirely islands in one shot," and there are just as many panels to dispute this as there are to prove your claim that Teach isn't as reckless anymore(MF suggests otherwise).

Okay.. but my "could be" is not baseless.. and if your "could be" is not baseless either, then it's all good my dudes..

The question is irrelevant.

It's really not though.. to me atleast.. don't get me wrong if it's irrelevant to you, then it's understandable.. and that's just fine.

But it was relevant to me, just for the record..

It does when they explicitly say they're leaving because they're not ready to battle that person.

No sir.

 

[ToshiZO]

I'm not "desperate" at all.

And I'm sorry but you're wrong buddy.. the comparison is not a reach at all.. get a grip on facts please..

Mihawk fought Shanks back in the day.

BB fought Shanks back in the day.

Mihawk left when Shanks showed up.

BB left when Shanks showed up.

When BB left when Akainu appeared post time skip, he fled from the scene and avoided an unnecessary fight.

In any of these situations does it automatically mean that

Shanks > Mihawk ?
Shanks > BB ?
Akainu > BB ?

According to your delusional logic these are official all because one character chose to leave the scene and fight another day.. lol read the manga more carefully and also think with common sense.



I don't like Akainu. You're right. But I have no problem at all admitting when he can defeat someone.. ask me about Akainu vs another character and I'd give you my honest opinion based on what we see from the manga.

I've seen you post many intelligent comments before in the past, so I'm a little shocked at your denial to cold hard facts, and the way you're approaching this topic of conversation right now.

And dude, I never said that YOU said BB was dumb.. tf?! I can't say that he's becoming smarter just to make that statement?



Nope.. this is where you're wrong. You're looking at that in a negative way as if you hate BB.. why would you see that as him "picking who he THINKS he can or can't HANDLE"?
In his cocky mind he probably thinks he can win against Akainu.. (he certainly thought he could win against Garp and Sengoku.. Sengoku being FA at the time, above Akainu.. now same position as current Akainu) but why would he fight him then and there?

No seriously. Can you give me an answer and come up with a valid reason? Tell me, why would BB fight Akainu at that exact moment? How would that help benefit his goals? Why choose to fight, when it was easier and safer to avoid conflict at that time? Why?

Answer that please..



THIS just helps prove my point even further... lmao.. Sengoku at the time above Akainu. And post time skip Akainu is now in that position. Garp... well he's freakin Garp for crying out loud. If BB had no problem fighting them, you really think he would run away from Akainu out of fear? Fear of losing? HA! don't make me laugh.. use your brain pal.. seriously.. think about it.




Show me manga scans stating Akainu was "MVP of the war" or didn't happen and is completely opinionated b.s.



"The most focus" ?!? When?? When did this happen? Lol "the absolute center" ? Yeah center of the earth maybe after WB sent him flying down south.. xd

Sorry buddy but the characters who fit that description the most would be Luffy, Ace (obviously) and WB.. Akainu was just one of the 3-4 top tiers the Marines had at their disposal.. and just like a dog he obeyed orders and nothing more..

Only time he "stood out the most among legends and countless top tiers" was when he shat himself at the sight of Red Haired Shanks..

#Facts

Spoiler

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Relax did Akainu hurt you? Did he hurt your family, just from your tone alone it seems like he did. Its got you resorting to illuminati confirmed level arguments with that Mihawk one lmfaooo.

Just not your topic I guess.

 

[-Akuma-]

Just as long as y'all know MF Whitebeard>Akainu it's okay.

 

[Punk Hazard]

LBeezy, I'll get to you in a second, wanna address this right quick.

Just as long as y'all know MF Whitebeard>Akainu it's okay.

What would have had happened if, right here, Akainu had blown through his face instead

Spoiler

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Or continued his assault instead of backing away right here

Spoiler

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Or assaulting him again here instead of letting fodder charge in

Spoiler

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Or, in any of those instances, instead of going with his normal magma fist attack, he used this:

Spoiler

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You must be registered for see images

Just out of curiosity.

 

[arv993]

"But the point still stands that just because someone chooses to not fight another character, and leave the scene, doesn't mean that they are afraid or weaker."

Then how come Shanks gets the special treatment and not Akainu? I can see go as far as to say that BB WALKED away from Shanks while he RAN away from Akainu. You even tried to use Mihawk to "prove" the difference between Akainu & Shanks which sounds desperate and petty.

WB was past his prime and sick? Well Akainu didn't use awakening and had to protect Marineford and we directly saw how his ability is capable to changing the climate and leaving everything a burning wasteland aka Punk Hazard....and you you tried to undermine Akainu's ability being compared to the end of the world.....

Even with BOTH sides were handicapped, Akainu easily matched WB's GGnM. He even stopped WB's gura bisento with one leg and both hands in his pockets.

Ace exploits the YYnM and Akainu completely outclasses Ace. Akainu easily matches WB's GGnM so how is BB using it so special? WB>BB in durability+endurance as well. Nothing puts BB above Akainu currently. If you want to say "BB will get stronger" then why are you bothering with debating so long?

LBeezy, I'll get to you in a second, wanna address this right quick.



What would have had happened if, right here, Akainu had blown through his face instead

Spoiler

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Or continued his assault instead of backing away right here

Spoiler

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Or assaulting him again here instead of letting fodder charge in

Spoiler

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Or, in any of those instances, instead of going with his normal magma fist attack, he used this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Just out of curiosity.

Vander how about all the abuse Wb got b4 yea lets just forget that happened lol. Yea stabbing a man and heart attacks dont count. Dude are u seriously saying Akainu was taking it easy are u serious, the island changed after 10 days of fighting which is different than a few hours. WB as an old injured sick man stalemated a fresh akainu, akainu can nothing but give him a high diff. and ur comparing pre skip unxperineced BB even with YY with a more ecperienced BB who massacred the WB pirates remnants nice to know your not biased Lmaoo

I'm seeing a trend here toshi, riker and vander admiral fans to the end i guess. @toshiz why ignore what i said answer the question do u honestly believe BB with his crew to back up would still lose to akainu cuz his whole crew ran away. Ur logic is beyond flawed

Riker you're just playing if games, characters can't do certain things whether it was a classic anime features where these thing tend to happen or in death match fatigue can cause you from landing certain blows. But Wb couldve also killed him as akainu fell down helplessly but why did that not happen. and if he tried to barrage at a moment like that WB would either lose a hand by defending it or attack. And at the end of the day its a manga dictated by Oda and Wb nor akainu would be killed that easily. But if you have an ounce of common sense you would know that wb was injured heavily and considered old and sick, if you truly believe a WB that has proper ken haki this match is not nearly this even.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

LBeezy, I'll get to you in a second, wanna address this right quick.



What would have had happened if, right here, Akainu had blown through his face instead

Spoiler

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Or continued his assault instead of backing away right here

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Or assaulting him again here instead of letting fodder charge in

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Or, in any of those instances, instead of going with his normal magma fist attack, he used this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Just out of curiosity.

People are going to say that WB had a heart attack but that is the main reason WB cant defeat any top tiers.

 

[Punk Hazard]

People are going to say that WB had a heart attack but that is the main reason WB cant defeat any top tiers.

Agreed. The heart attack is just an example of a weakness of old WB, and is what makes him inferior to Akainu. Even if he possesses more raw strength and power, his body can't keep up with it, and will give out at some point, leaving him open for Akainu to attempt a genuine, full-fledged attempt to murder him. I can see it happening with any of the Admirals and the other top tiers like Shanks or Dragon.

 

[LBeezy]

Spoiler

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Relax did Akainu hurt you? Did he hurt your family, just from your tone alone it seems like he did. Its got you resorting to illuminati confirmed level arguments with that Mihawk one lmfaooo.

Just not your topic I guess.

Lol

This is what your posts look like when you're proven wrong on every level and have nothing intelligent left to say?

Cool. kool:

 

[ToshiZO]

Not all posts deserve proper replies. You give me that emotion fueled rambling 10 times and I'm gonna give it that same reply 10 times lmao.

You want a proper reply, you put in the effort to actually make valid points. You want to put zero effort towards understanding anything I said, that's on you.