[VS] Urahara vs Kyoraku
- Thread starter Gerkak
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Berkenstiel
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dms_kakashi
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Even after the final dan, kisuke can reconstruct his body. And he might even be able to reconstruct Shunsui or his bankai range too.
Venomous Cobra
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Shunshin wins this with an high-extreme diff tbh. Ignoring uruhara's BS "Has a counter for everything/unknown means"
Vandenreich
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Kisuke, I doubt we've even seen the full extent of his bankai.
Also he is one of the special war potentials with his unknown means, Kyoraku isn't.
Also he is one of the special war potentials with his unknown means, Kyoraku isn't.
Tarkatower
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Shunsui is the Captain-Commander. He handled the Elite Leader's first Vollstandig and pushed him to his second form.
Urahara couldn't beat the weakest Elite 1 v 1.
Feats and portrayal place Shunsui at a higher power level than Urahara.
If the two of them were to fight with their Bankai, Shunsui would win.
Urahara couldn't beat the weakest Elite 1 v 1.
Feats and portrayal place Shunsui at a higher power level than Urahara.
If the two of them were to fight with their Bankai, Shunsui would win.
Your Creepy Stalker
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Gonna go with Urahara. During FKT, Urahara could actually fight against Aizen, while Shunsui got one shotted. And Urahara fought a stronger version of Aizen.
But obviously, Chair Senpai low - neg diff.
But obviously, Chair Senpai low - neg diff.
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dms_kakashi
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Shunsui didnt do anything to defeat Lillie. It was that holy sword Lillie Nanao who defeated Lillie. Feat says that he miserably failed to deal any effective damage to his enemy. And how can you decide that Askin is the weakest Sternritter? He handled the MC like it was a piece of cake. You sure are underestimating Askin. And Kisukes ability played direct role in beating Askin unlike Shunsui who did shit as if he was non factor.
Tarkatower
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Has nothing to do with what I said. At all.
How convenient his enemy, the leader of the Elite Sternritter, could regenerate from his head blown off.
Compared to Urahara who.... failed to deal anything generally considered to be fatal against Askin, the weakest Elite Sternritter. If you're talking about who can deal damage more easily/effectively to an opponent, it's Shunsui who tops Urahara.
Ah.... the fact that he was the last one to be promoted to Elite status shows that he is the lowest among the Elites in terms of combat efficacy. The fact that he has inferior feats and hax to the other three Elites, as I outlined in my first post in this thread.
> "handled the MC"
What a red herring. Ichigo's "MC" status is irrelevant here. We're talking about someone who almost got burned in the head from Bazz-B (who's not an elite). Let's stop pretending that the other Elites wouldn't have no-diffed Ichigo, as well. Oh and they don't need to "handle the MC" when they have better feats. We have Lille taking on the Captain-Commander who's stronger than Ichigo. We have Pernida mangling up Zaraki who's more powerful than Ichigo. We have Gerard who can blow away Rukia and Renji, the latter who is comparable to Ichigo in physical stats. In no way are Lille, Pernida, and Gerard losing out in feats to Askin.
> "Direct role"
It was Grimmjow who shoved his fist through Askin, not Urahara. The only "direct" things Urahara did was restructure Askin's arm, slash his shoulder, and push him back 100 meters - none which were relevant to Askin's defeat.
It was Urahara's brains that led to Askin's defeat, which is meaningless in a 1 v 1 fight against Shunsui where Urahara gets no prep. This fight is decided by the one who has a greater natural fighting ability, and that goes to Shunsui.
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^
Shunsui's portrayal < Urahara's portrayal.
The enemy does not see Shunsui as a threat. Despite being the leader Shinsui was not among the 5 top dogs mentioned by the enemy.
Urahara does not need prep for shit.
Shunsui's portrayal < Urahara's portrayal.
The enemy does not see Shunsui as a threat. Despite being the leader Shinsui was not among the 5 top dogs mentioned by the enemy.
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Urahara does not need prep for shit.
Tarkatower
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You don't get the context of "Special War Potential"
Read this:
No shit Urahara is seen as a bigger threat, because he has a higher potential in warfare. Yhwach is waging war on all of Soul Society, and Urahara is one of the people who can turn the tide of a war because his "unknown means" include coming up with a miraculous plan to shift battles in his side's victory. Only problem is that Urahara's "unknown means" plans almost always include assistance from allies to overturn the battle. Goes without saying that the reason he was selected for SWP status is irrelevant in a 1v1 battle.
On the other hand, you have Shunsui whose Bankai is not ideal in large-scale warfare as Ukitake hinted back in the FKT arc, but is exceedingly lethal in a 1v1 battle where no one except him and the enemy are within the AoE of his Bankai.
All you're proving is that Urahara is a better strategist which is why he's a bigger threat to Yhwach, which has no correlation with Urahara's power level or fighting ability.
And before you latch onto SWP status even more, let's not forget that Yamamoto wasn't considered SWP material by Yhwach. Yet Yamamoto still roasts Urahara in a 1v1 prepless battle with Zanka no Tachi. Yet not even Bankai Zaraki, a SWP for his fighting strength, has the feats to match Yamamoto's firepower and thus would be reduced to ashes.
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Nope. Yamamoto was already dead by the time these war potentials were mentioned IIRC. Can't be used as an example unless you prove otherwise.
This is not a UFC match. It's a deathmatch where anything goes, if Urahara's brain is what makes him defeat opponents then his brain is > Shunsui's strength. That is all there is to it.
Bleach fights are too obscure to see who would win in a 1v1 especially with characters with weird ass powers like these two. All I know is Shunsui was not given the same portrayal. End of.
No argument, Kenpachi is straightforward and as brainless as can be yet he was still a war potential, where is Shunsui? Nobody knew what his bankai was and yet he wasn't seen as a big enough threat to turn the tides of the war? That only hurts your own argument.
Ichigo is a given, Aizen goes without saying, Ichibei gave Yhwach his toughest fight, you can clearly tell these guys were separated from the rest for good reason. They stand out among their peers. Simple as that.
kotoamatsukami
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Lol none of those people you said are stronger than ichigo are actually stronger than ichigo...ichigo>>every good person at this point....especially if he used bankai o Lordy
.Any ways I'll go with kyoraku due to his head cutting of technique...but then again uarahara might somehow evade it.
kotoamatsukami
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Lol Yamamoto was alive juha Bach himself stated why Yamamoto was not a war potential.
Yea I wasn't 100% with that. What chapter was it?
EDIT: I checked it out, he did say that.
Makes sense to me since Bach knew everything about Yamamoto, these potentials are dangerous because there isn't full intel on them. The fact that Bach had to explain why he didn't consider Genryusai also shows that its not because he wasn't strong enough but rather Bach knew all the cards Genryusai brought to the table.
Shunsui doesn't fall under that category because his Bankai was an unknown and could have been considered a major threat.
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kotoamatsukami
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dms_kakashi
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Since when intelligence became non factor in 1vs1 fight.
1. How convenient? Lol... thats your excuse? Its laughable. Even in Askins case, he was immune to every opponents including Urahara. And Shunsui bankai was able to effect Lillie but miserably failed. In the end, Shunsui did shit but Urahara used his bankai to allow Grimmjow to rip opponnents heart. "How convenient that your opponent was immune to your attacks.
Askin is the weakest Elite? Thats baseless. Now what can we do? Lets compare their showings with same opponemt. Thats Oetsu. He one shotted Lillie(underpowered) but got nearly defeated by Askin (underpowered) if not for external interference.
Damage? Shunsui did no damage at all.... It was only Holy sword Lillies attack that defeated him not shunsuis any ability.
Lol..you mean Shunsui, Zaraki, Rukia, Renju are >Ichigo(after training in RGs palace). Do you really mean that? Lol... you must be kidding. I cant imagine how you came up with that!!! I'll say this: Ichigo is far avove the ones you mentioned bar Zaraki who is still below Ichigo.
It was Uraharas brain? You mean that brain is useless in 1 v 1 fight? Lol... about letting others enter into gift ball was instantaneous thought by Urahara. It was not thought beforehand. And this was the dumbest comment of yours.
Uraharas unknown means utilize what he has(Ichigo, Grimmjow). If he doesnt have such tools, he can use his unknown means to come with other idea.
Before Selecting war potentials, Ichigos real bankai, Zarakis shikai + Bankai and Uraharas Bankai was unknown too.
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Tarkatower
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Irrelevant. Yhwach specifically discounted Yamamoto as a SWP, and already formulated his five SWPs before invading SS. The fact that Yamamoto did not make it to that list shows that non-SWPS of Soul Society can be stronger than those who are.
It says Urahara vs Kyoraku. The OP did not specify prep. Urahara translates his intellect into victory by incorporating assistance from allies or time to cook up a Kido or gadget. Neither of which are applicable in a prepless match. Your point is moot, here. This is exactly like a UFC match.
If Urahara did have prep, I concede to his victory. But that's not what I'm talking about me. Argue with me how Urahara beats Shunsui with their natural abilities, or concede.
All I know is that Shunsui was given the better portrayal. Shunsui has a reality-warping Bankai that can slit your throat and reflect shared wounds. Urahara has a reconstruction Bankai where its best feat is enhancing his arm to overpower a scrub. Doesn't take much to determine whose abilities are superior to whose.
> Claims that I have no argument
> Forgets what Kenpachi's war potential quality is
Do I have to explain why fighting strength matters in warfare lel? Shunsui isn't a Hulk, yet that doesn't change the fact that Shunsui has a higher chance of beating an opponent than the other way around with his Bankai, including Zaraki. Re-read what I wrote. Shunsui's abilities lie in securing victory in a battle, not turning the tide of a war which is irrelevant to power level or fighting ability.
Yet Urahara clearly doesn't, because the reason he was selected to be SWP has nothing to do with his individual combat efficacy and fighting ability. It has to do with his "unknown means" of overturning Yhwach's plans, yet those 'unknown means' don't always include him accomplishing the ends by himself or on the spot.
Tell me how Shikai Ichigo trumps Shunsui in feats when we see the latter backing the leader of the Elite Sternritters into a corner three times? Whereas Ichigo got no-diffed by the weakest Elite.Lol none of those people you said are stronger than ichigo are actually stronger than ichigo...ichigo>>every good person at this point....especially if he used bankai o Lordy
Any ways I'll go with kyoraku due to his head cutting of technique...but then again uarahara might somehow evade it.
Tell me how Shikai Ichigo can generate more power than Base Kenpachi, when we see the latter slicing off Gerard's arm, overpowering his stomp with bare hands, and tanking his punch?
Tell me how Shikai Ichigo has superior physical stats than Renji when we saw the latter low-diffing Vollstandig Mask, who's massively more powerful than his self who decimated Bankai Kensei in h2h and blitzed Bankai Rose? The former who's fast enough to react to a kid who blitzed Ukitake, and the latter who can react to Released Starrk?
How's Urahara gonna evade it when an intangible w/teleportation couldn't? Urahara gets his throat slit and he doesn't reconstruct himself.
Nothing to do with what I said. I said that Urahara's intellect is meaningless against Shunsui since he has no means of escaping its hax abilities, has no prior knowledge of Shunsui's Bankai abilities, and has no prep to come up with an effective counter.
Why? Is regeneration from head explosion not a huge advantage in battle? That's a superior regeneration feat to Hogyoku Aizen and R2 Ulquiorra, btw.
> Askin didn't gain immunity to Urahara's physical attacks, hence why his shoulder got slashed
> Askin didn't gain immunity to Urahara's Bankai, hence why his arm got restructured
Your point is moot here. Urahara has the ability to affect Askin, but failed to inflict anything effective against him. The fact that you're pandering to "but Urahara helped some other guy who actually killed Askin" shows that you've conceded that Urahara lost out to Askin in fighting ability. With his own weight, Shunsui pushed his Sternritter harder than how far Urahara pushed Askin by himself.
Literally explained how Askin's late ascension to Elite status shows that he was the weakest, and how the Elites having better hax than Askin proves their superiority over him.
Oh, you want to use the Nimaiya example? Fact is that Askin only avoided getting one-shotted because he understood Nimaiya's Sayabuse, which Nimaiya stated himself. This means Askin was blitzed two or three times before he understood Sayabuse's nature (which was its cutting potency). If Askin was targeted first, he would have ended up just like the rest. Now let's say Lille was targeted last. Lille would have reacted properly by opening his eye to avoid the slash, then put a bullet in Nimaiya's head with X-axis. Gerard? He would have activated The Miracle, let himself be killed, then proceed to stomp Nimaiya. Pernida? It would have transformed and regenerated from Sayabuse slashes before hijacking Nimaiya's nervous system.
Shunsui blew off Lille's head, stop pretending you don't know what I'm talking about. Point is that Shunsui performed better against Lille with his individual abilities than Urahara did against Askin. The whole "but intelligencez is part of Urahara's abilitiez" does no good, when intellect isn't letting Urahara overcome Shunsui's hax Bankai.
All I see is appeal to the stone and appeal to common sense. Nor did I say that Renji is above Ichigo, I said that Renji was comparable to Ichigo in physical stats. Nor did I mention Rukia > Ichigo. Pls read my response to kotoamatsukami.
>"And this was the dumbest comment" lel.
Where are you going here? Come up with an argument as to how Urahara's intellect lets him handle Shunsui's Bankai in a setting without prep or allies and we'll talk.