[HA] Sound with Vex

[Negative Knight]

*Waits*

 

[Vex]

What's the sound of silence?

 

[Negative Knight]

What's the sound of silence?

-12.4 Decibels aka Delta's posts.

 

[Vex]

Nice, now what is sound (in terms of both RL and the RP), how do sound waves behave when they interact with other elements (strengths/weaknesses), and finally how does a sound wave's frequency, wavelength, and amplitude effect its behavior?

 

[Negative Knight]

Nice, now what is sound (in terms of both RL and the RP), how do sound waves behave when they interact with other elements (strengths/weaknesses), and finally how does a sound wave's frequency, wavelength, and amplitude effect its behavior?

Sound is the movement of waves through a given medium (e.g. air, water, etc) through compression and rarefactions. In the RP, it's an element created through the combination of wind and lightning. It's strong to Crystal and Ice, weak to Wind but can also be countered with Earth depending on how it's used. It's frequency and wavelength are two sides of the same coin. High frequency and low wavelength creates damaging waves of sound while low frequency/long wavelength creates hindering waves. Amplitude determines pitch.

Did this from the top of my head so there might be mistakes.

 

[Vex]

Low Frequency is a sound frequency around or below 20 Hertz (Hz). Sounds below 20 Hz cannot be consciously detected by the human ear. Although it does have some physiological effects on the body. People have described feelings of discomfort, 'pressure', and nervousness after being exposed to Low Frequency sounds. Low frequency results in longer wavelength.
High frequency sound could be defined as sound between what humans can hear. Something around 10,000 hertz could be a high frequency sound. High frequency sound has a shorter wavelength when compared to low frequency sounds. We tend to find these higher pitched sounds quite annoying and distracting.
Ultra frequency sound waves are anything above 20,000 Hertz, and cannot be registered by human ears. Ultrasound waves have a much lower wavelength, but a much larger amplitude. These types of sounds can cause damage if the frequency is high enough and for a long amount of time.

The greater the energy, the larger the frequency and the shorter (smaller) the wavelength. Given the relationship between wavelength and frequency — the higher the frequency, the shorter the wavelength — it follows that short wavelengths are more energetic than long wavelengths.

Sounds are a series of pressurized waves which travel through the air at extremely fast speeds. It is created whenever an object vibrates. When it does so, longitudinal waves rapidly proliferate outwards in all directions from the area that the sound came from. When something vibrates in the atmosphere, it moves the air particles around it. Those air particles in turn move the air particles around them, carrying the pulse of the vibration through the air. Then when the sound waves strike the another object they cause the object which they strike to vibrate. Then, the object is able to change that sound into some other sort of signal. The vast majority of the time, that signal will be electrical.

Time for an Anatomy and Physiology Lesson!

In humans, all hearing occurs in our ears. They are able to translate sound waves into information for our brains to understand.
Firstly, sound is picked up by the Pinna which is the outer part of the ear. Mostly, it functions to determine the direction of a sound, and tells you where it originated from.

If a sound is coming from behind you or above you, it will bounce off the pinna in a different way than if it is coming from in front of you or below you. This sound reflection alters the pattern of the sound wave. Your brain recognizes distinctive patterns and determines whether the sound is in front of you, behind you, above you or below you.

After the Pinna, sound waves travel along the ear canal before reaching your ear drum. As the sound waves reach the ear, they cause the ear drum to vibrate. The ear drum is a taut piece of skin, which vibrates at even the slightest change in air pressure causes it to move up and down. Higher pitched sounds move the ear drum more rapidly, but louder and lower pitched sounds move the ear drum a greater distance. For all intents and purposes, the ear drum is the main sensory element in your ears.
Next, the sound moves through the Cochlea which conducts the sound through a fluid in your ear. Obviously, a fluid is harder to move than air, so therefore the sound must be amplified (or increased). That's why you have these little bones in your ears called the Ossicles. And their job is to....oscilate xD. That means that they vibrate, and increase the force of the sound (multiplying it to 20x its force when it was at the eardrum). The cochlea then turns that sound into electrical signals which the brain can interpret. That would be how most organisms 'hear'.
Sound itself can travel through many materials, including water, the air, and earth. However, Sound cannot exist within a vacuum. This is because sound is literally -at its most fundamental level- the vibration of matter. Space, which is pretty much just a large vacuum, has matter in it of course. It's just that the atoms and molecules floating around are so far apart it makes it impossible for sound to exist.

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Of course, a sound has general characteristics. Sound has wavelength, frequency, velocity, and amplitude. In terms of wavelength, since sound is a compression wave, it would be the distance between crests. This goes hand in hand with the frequency, which is the amount of time it takes for the waves to move past a certain point. Wavelength × Frequency= Velocity of sound (or 'speed of sound'). The speed of sound, is about 344 meters per second. In our RP it means that sound waves travel virtually instantly. Although, recently this was tweaked to 'slightly faster than the average wind jutsu' for destructive sound waves. Hindering, and Sound gen however still move at the speed of sound. That means that for all intents and purposes they are 'instant' and can't really be reacted to.
Moreover, in our RP sound is the combination of the Wind and Lightning elements. Sound is further divided into three subclasses, which are defined here:

Destructive Sound Waves: These pertain to destructive low frequency but high energy sound waves which will cause physical damage to anything in their paths. These attacks are visible as ripples through the air or any medium in which they are used and are only slightly faster than Wind techniques
Hindering Sound Waves: These pertain to sound waves that hinder the targets body or system by affecting things like his balance or his heart rate or disrupting his balance, etc. In this case, high frequency, low energy waves are used which travel at a virtually instant speed but lack any type of physical damage property. These techniques cannot be avoided as they are too fast for any ninja to react to.
Genjutsu Inducing Sound Waves: These pertain to using high frequency, low energy sound waves as mediums to induce genjutsu. The illusions vary but are normally much stronger than normal genjutsu and more fast acting. Similar to the hindering sound waves, these cannot be avoided and their effects are immediate. Sound Genjutsu however, follows the normal release methods of regular Genjutsu.

Ask questions if you have them

 

[Negative Knight]

Really informative post. I already knew the RP applications of Sound but the rest was largely new to me barring basic prior knowledge.

 

[ZandaT]

Yes, I understand it too

 

[Vex]

Yes, I understand it too

Get out of hear (lol)

---

(Ototon: Naiteki Ne no Jutsu) - Sound Release: Inner Sonar Skill

Spoiler

Rank: D
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Long
Chakra Cost: 10 (-1 per turn)
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user will enhance their hearing by infusing his ears with sound chakra. Then, by utilizing chakra and enfacing his lungs, the user will be able to control the frequency and intensity of the sound emitted from his simple breathing. This low frequency, inaudible sound is passively emitted and has no effect other than emerging from him and bouncing off of objects. Using the enhanced hearing, the user is able to know where everything is around them, effectively creating a sonar effect through the rebound and reflection of sound waves. The hearing and the sonar effect is precise enough so that one can effectively use it to substitute one's vision in battle if needed. Despite being very effective, specially if the user has any of his other senses hindered, it also leaves the user vulnerable to sound genjutsu or sound attacks which will be much more drastic in its effects.
Note: Lasts 6 turns

This tech pretty much causes the sound that you produce from breathing to bounce off of other objects, causing them to oscillate slightly. Using your enhanced hearing, you can hear the slight vibrations, and you can use this technique to 'sense' the position of objects. Of course, you can't use this to sense chakra or intangible elements like fire (although they should produce some sound when exhaled). However, sound attacks will be able to have a more pronounced effect on your body - simple things like paper bombs could become a real problem. In relation to this tech, you can use the infusion jutsu.

(Ototon: Chūnyū no Jutsu) - Sound Release: Infusion Technique

Spoiler

Rank: B
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage points: N/A
Description: A simple technique where the user touches an object and infuses it with sound chakra, enabling it to vibrate and produce a low frequency, high amplitude sound. The vibrations cause objects to bounce off of the targeted object which is highly useful when fighting with weapons or to make thrown basic weapons resist opposing thrown weapons.. It also resonates to the user if he were to be blind (because of a genjutsu for example), letting the the user know the objects position and what it deflects. It can also be applied to solid objects or structures the user may wish to destroy or, by applying it to the ground or similar, detect what is around him by making it resonate with the same low frequency. The object gets no added power, only the ability to deflect incoming objects that want to counter it.

This jutsu is actually pretty cool - however, I'll let you tell me why it's so cool. Let's say I throw a fire infused kunai at you, how would you counter the kunai with the above jutsu. Assume that the fire jutsu I'm infusing the kunai with is below.


Devil's Fist: Vulcan's Folly (Mao Genkotsu: Gukuo no Vulcan)

Spoiler

Type: Offense
Rank: S
Range: Short
Chakra: 40 (-5 chakra per turn)
Damage: 80
Description: With this jutsu, the user is able to use arguably the most powerful jutsu in Devil's Fist. The jutsu allows the user, to channel fire chakra into a sword or other bladed weapon. The sword is then 'hot' being able to add heat damage, in addition to regular damage inflicted from a bladed wound. The heat makes the weapon literally hot enough to melt through other bladed weapons, and to immediately cauterize wounds that the sword cuts. It also causes massive burns, from the heat of the fire chakra. The blade never actually becomes on fire, just simply hot.

-Restrictions-

Can only be taught by Vex
Can only be used once a battle
Lasts for 3 turns

 

[Negative Knight]

I'm inclined to say I would infuse a kunai of my own with low frequency sound waves and use it to deflect your own kunai but wouldn't the heat of the DF jutsu simply melt my technique? However, it shouldn't be immediate and while it's an S-Rank in strength, that only applies to the heating effect. It's still only a basic kunai and the sound waves from my weapon should be able to deflect it off it's original trajectory.

 

[Lord of Kaos]

Now, I'll take a short break to go back over some stuff that should be noted.

First, the different types of Sound jutsu. There are three types, Destructive Waves, Hindering Waves and Genjutsu. We'll take the first to go over for now.

Possibly the most frequently made, these jutsus are are low frequency but high energy sound ones that cause physical damage through the vibrations as they vibrate against the body or through the damaging of the inner ear/organs. These are the most damaging as the name suggests but also the easiest to counter given their speed is slightly faster than Wind. These Sound waves are not reliant on you having to hear them as most must travel through the medium used with before reaching the foe. I want you to go through the jutsu list and found an example of one for me and tell me what makes it destructive as well as explaining Destructive waves in your own words.

 

[Negative Knight]

(Ototon: Shinsei) - Sound Release: Divinity

Spoiler

Rank: A
Type: Offensive/Defensive
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description: Focusing sound chakra into ones limbs, the user is able to deliver massive taijutsu attacks that can shatter anything on contact, specially solid defenses. When used directly against an enemy, the blows damage the soft tissues of the target if used with a low frequency sound or the targets bones, if used with a high frequency sound. The vibrations don't produce any external effect, unlike what happens with (Ototon: Oto no Ken) - Sound Release: Sonic Fist technique, instead propagating into whatever is touched through direct contact. The user is free in which moves he will perform and can use virtually any stance he knows. However, because it produces no externalization of the vibrations, as the limbs are only infused with sound chakra and the vibrations happen in what is hit, the user cannot attack or defend from things that would otherwise hurt him like bladed weapons, etc.

It's destructive as the low frequency sound waves allow you to damage tissue. One thing I don't understand about the technique is why high frequency waves would break bones when they're supposedly only "hindering" waves. Not that I'm complaining. This is probably my favourite canon sound technique.

From my understanding, destructive waves have a low frequency and by extension the longer the wavelength and vice versa (the higher the frequency, the shorter the wavelength). I think it's damaging property comes from it's longer wavelength but again I can't say for sure since the above technique seems to contradict the rules of Sound in our RP.

 

[Lord of Kaos]

Ah, divinity. I like this one too. We'll cover it more later on. You pretty much explained it right, Divinity is just the oddball out among the jutsu.

Hindering: Similar in usage to the above with a notable difference, most of these are aimed for the usage of hindering an enemy, through the usage of sound waves to cause effects such as nausea, fatigue, parlysis, etc. The effects all range depending on the jutsu created and used. These jutsus move at comparable speeds to genjutsus, meaning their effects trigger the moment they are perceived. Note that these can't be made to deal direct damage; only hinder and cause annoyance and things. Same as before, find a Hindering sound jutsu and post it and write why it's a Hindering jutsu

 

[Negative Knight]

( Ototon: Midasu no koe ) Sound Release: The voice of Midas

Spoiler

Rank: A
Type: Offensive
Range: Short - Long
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user charges sound chakra into each of their hands and slams them together, creating a sound similar to two heavy golden cymbals crashing together. As the hands slam together, it releases a high pitched, high frequency sound wave, resonating in the enemies ear, and causing muscle paralysis upon hearing it. As the loud sound happens, it creates an echoing amongst the field, trapping any who hear it under paralysis, causing slight pain to them, causing their ear drums to bleed. Paralysis lasts one turn but the user cannot use any other sound techniques for 2 turns after using it.

It's a hindering technique because it's high frequency, short wavelength and therefore high energy (which I assume is what enables it to reach the opponent virtually instantly). It doesn't deal any direct damage but rather induces immediate full-body paralysis upon being heard. Just realized this is quite easily defended against with the ear plugs technique lol.

 

[Lord of Kaos]

Correct, a lot of Sound hindering jutsu are reliant on one of two things: either a sound made or a sound wave created. Note that the sounds don't have to be able to be heard, such as infrasound waves. Picture a dog whistle, for example. While we can't hear it's frequency, the sound is still created and thus has an effect. One idea I had was creating a hindering jutsu that isn't heard but affects the target's eyes, something that has been known to occur irl.

Now, on to the last type.

Sound Genjutsu: S ound based genjutsus are genjutsus created through the medium of a sound, which cane be as small as popping gum to a sound enhanced shout. In tune with the genjutsu rules, sound based genjutsus happen near instantly, the moment they are cast. One thing is always constant with them however, a sound must be produced for the sound waves to be created. It triggers the illusions through the medium of Sound. Again, the sound doesn't have to be one that's heard, though this relates to the gen itself and it's effects, varying Gen to Gen.

Same as before, find one and explain for me.

 

[Negative Knight]

(Ototon Genjutsu: Banshī no te de gōmon no seiki) Sound Release Illusionary Art: A Century of Torture at the Hands of a Banshee

Spoiler

Type: Offensive
Rank: S-Rank
Range: Short-Long
Chakra: 40
Damage: N/A
Description: The most powerful sound illusion to be created, A Century of Torture at the Hands of a Banshee is a deviant technique, capable of rendering even the most powerful of enemies riddled with fear. The user will focus his sound chakra into a sound he will produce and which will carry the illusion and trigger it on any enemy that hears it. The illusion triggered is simple but surprisingly effective in all its simplicity: pain. Anyone who hears the sound will feel unimaginable amounts of pain all over their body to such an extent that they may even vomit and lose control of their chakra flow. Upon facing such pain, the enemy will lose control over his body and spasm as they curl to try and alleviate the pain. The longer the target is caught in the illusion the more severe the effect is. The illusion however is just that: an illusion. The pain isn't real or associated with any bodily aspect or damage. The user must, however, sustain the inducing sound and focus into his chakra flow (not being able to mold chakra at the same time) to sustain the effects of the illusion as when the sound ends, the enemy stops feeling the pain and recovers virtually immediately. Sounds that can trigger the illusion and carry it can vary from a whistle (very effective as it can be sustained for a lengthy time and be controlled), scream (less lengthy but easier to perform), music (if the user has a musical instrument), etc. If the sound is momentary, however, it will not induce an effective effect.
Note: usable once every 4 turns
Note: while sustaining the sound, the user cannot attack or move from his position, risking otherwise disturbing the sound he's producing and ending the illusion.

It's an Ototon genjutsu since it's initiated by hearing a sound. It elicits unimaginable pain in a target for as long as it's sustained (the sound needs to be maintained) and the user can't perform other techniques or move from his position.

 

[Lord of Kaos]

Good, good. Sound Genjutsu work just like normal ones, the only difference is now the trigger is a sound. There is virtually no difference in the usage and concepts behind Gen and Sound Gen so there's not much to go in depth about on this part.

Before we go on, bolded lines are very important, italics is useful information, and red is small tasks/assignments for you to do.

Sound is a pressure disturbance that moves in the form of a mechanical wave (distribution of energy through a medium from one particle to another). Simplified, it's energy moving from one place to another.

The next thing to note is the different types of sound waves or, to be accurate, the different frequencies that waves travel on.

First of all, a frequency is measured in Hertz. A frequency in theory is how many waves pass a certain point in a certain amount of time. So, basically, the lower the interval, the higher the frequency. Now, the cool thing is, adjusting the frequency. A higher frequency is a higher pitched tone, while a lower frequency is a lower pitched tone. If you listen to music and hear the bass, the frequency is lower. You can also feel it in your body a lot more than high frequency tones, because generally those are harder to perceive in the first place. The neat thing is, that this allows us to alter the effects of sound techniques by altering the frequency. That being said, you probably see how versatile sound actually can be, and how it can create different effects. Even if you can't hear something, the sound waves are still there and can still have effects on your body. You can alter waves to create varying effects on the body.

We humans can only hear certain frequencies, or a range in between 2 frequencies. Generally, this is about 20 - 20,000 Hertz. Now, as you grow older, your body gets older as well, and you start to have trouble hearing high frequency tones. This is why younger people generally hear a lot better than old people. This does not mean that higher/lower frequencies do not effect the body.Ultrasonic are simply sounds above 20 kiloHertz (20 000 Hertz) and thus above what humans can actually perceive. Other animals, like dolphins and dogs can perceive these (think, the dog whistle). These range from 20 KiloHertz into several MegaHertz. This is also what they use for sonograms and such. Infrasound, sound waves of low frequencies, is the opposite (below 20 hertz). Low frequency and ultrasonic waves are generally used for crowd control, causing effects like nausea, vertigo, queasiness, and even cause one to faint while high frequency waves are generally more dangerous and lethal. A lot of Sound jutsu vary from high frequency to low frequency jutsus. Infrasound is generally used to refer to sound waves that are a frequency so low that you cannot hear it. The opponent cannot perceive the wave but it still happens. If the jutsu's effect was based on hearing it, it would have to be above infrasound wave limits.

Questions? I want you to tell me how you would utilize ultrasonic and infrasonic waves in the RP and their advan/disadvantages.

 

[Negative Knight]

I imagine ultrasonic waves would have similar effects to those they exhibit in real-life i.e. inducing nausea, vertigo, a loss of balance. They're very high frequency (and so low energy) so they would inevitably fall into the "hindering" sound wave category. Infrasonic waves are very low frequency and so fall into the "destructive" category. The main advantage to both types is that they can't be perceived through the sense of sound (since their frequencies exist outside of a human's range of hearing). However, this inability to be heard is probably their greatest weakness too. Many sound techniques rely on being heard for their effects to manifest (mainly sound genjutsu). It would be more useful for destructive waves to be silent rather than hindering ones since the latter group is already too fast to be blocked/intercepted.

 

[Lord of Kaos]

I imagine ultrasonic waves would have similar effects to those they exhibit in real-life i.e. inducing nausea, vertigo, a loss of balance. They're very high frequency (and so low energy) so they would inevitably fall into the "hindering" sound wave category. Infrasonic waves are very low frequency and so fall into the "destructive" category. The main advantage to both types is that they can't be perceived through the sense of sound (since their frequencies exist outside of a human's range of hearing). However, this inability to be heard is probably their greatest weakness too. Many sound techniques rely on being heard for their effects to manifest (mainly sound genjutsu). It would be more useful for destructive waves to be silent rather than hindering ones since the latter group is already too fast to be blocked/intercepted.

Ultrasonic waves have a lot of possible usage. are also used to detect objects, commonly used when women get sonagrams to see their developing child, done by using sound waves. Other examples are automatic door openers, an ultrasonic sensor detects a person's approach and opens the door. Ultrasonic sensors are also used to detect intruders; the ultrasound can cover a wide area from a single point. Another use, which is similar to echolocation, is sonars. An ultrasonic pulse is generated in a particular direction. If there is an object in the path of this pulse, part or all of the pulse will be reflected back to the transmitter as an echo and can be detected through the receiver path. By measuring the difference in time between the pulse being transmitted and the echo being received, it is possible to determine the distance. Ultrasound waves are also used for sonic weapons, weapons that use sound waves for applications such as riot control, disorientation of attackers, up to lethal levels of sound.

An example would be the Inner Sonar Jutsu. It releases ultrasonic waves that bounce off items like a sonar, hence the name.

These shouldn't be confused with terms like supersonic or hypersonic btw. Infrasound and ultrasound refer to the frequency of the wave, while supersonic refers to speeds that break the speed of sound and hypersonic are speeds that are 5 times faster than the speed of sound. Ultrasonic waves do not break the sound barrier. Remember, they are just as much sound as another wave, the frequency is just higher, of course, the higher the frequency, the more energy used and thus how faster the sound travels, but how do you travel faster than yourself? Ultrasonic waves are sound, thus they move at their own speed. That is the speed of sound they produce. Breaking the sound barrier/creating a sonic boom is when an object or person moves faster than how fast the speed of sound can travel under the circumstances. Sound moves at a certain speed in certain air temperatures, we know that so far. An airplane causing a sonic boom is an airplane that can move faster than the speed of sound in these circumstances. See what I mean?

• Speed of Sound


Now, realize that sound can move through any medium. Though we needs some sort of limitations, and it's reasonable to say wind is a good counter to sound if it can be seen and is traveling, but with certain jutsu, it might be too late (depending on how a technique is used and how the effects are). Earth, however, depending on the situation (and the level of understanding of the usage by the opponent) can be a devastating counter as well.
Now, look below:

Speed of sound:
solid > liquid > gas.​

Sound moves fastest of all through solids. Generally, this is because the particles and atoms in earth are more tightly packed than they are in liquids or gas. So, the closer the atoms/molecules, the faster sound moves.


- Elastic properties
There is a catch in between different solids. Sound moves faster through rigid solids (i.e. steel, iron) than other things like jelly or mud. This is because solids that are rigid generally mean that the atoms and molecules have a much stronger force of attraction towards each other than in other solids. This is because of the fact that, once moved, they move back to their original position/form more quickly (and thus resulting in a much higher vibration speed). jelly in this case has much weaker attraction between the molecules, that's why it's so "elastic" (not to be confused with elastic properties), and much more flexible.


- Density
Next to this, there is the density. Now, more dense substances = more mass. More mass=bigger molecules. Because sound is based on kinetic energy that travels from one point to another, moving through denser objects means it has to use more energy, seeing as it has to move (vibrate) larger molecules. This however is used for substances with the same elastic properties.


To explain this take two examples with nearly the same elastic properties. Gold and aluminum (Gold = 10.8 psi; aluminum = 10 psi). While they nearly have the same elastic properties, gold is much denser, so it will travel faster through aluminum than gold.


Another funny thing is, this effect does not quite work the same in gaseous media.

Let's say it's extremely hot in one side of the room, and extremely cold in the other side. The logic explanation is that sound would move faster in the cold air (since it's denser), but that isn't the case.


Heat, like sound is a source of kinetic energy. More heat = More kinetic energy = more energy for the sound. This leads up to the fact that they can vibrate faster in hot air.

​Questions?

 

[Negative Knight]

That was a really interesting read. You covered most of my questions before I even got to the end lol. I just have one question. If a gas is hot enough, will sound move through it faster than it would a liquid or even a solid?