[Predictions] Naruto Manga 501 Discussion and 502 Predictions

[OopsWrongHole]

Bro first of all, as you said, we dont know what happened exactly to jyuubis mind because it is not mentioned, therefore i have several theories about it, if you searched here in NB a little more, but in this case i only meant it as an example!, example: one of my theories was that jyuubis mind and will were sealed inside zetsu "he has a dark and light side as the moon full moon, and a moon eclipse, and olso if you noticed, zetsu has one of his eyes shaped just like a dark full moon, and the other is exactly as a "half moon", so my point is, i know it is not mentioned in the manga about jyuubis mind, that was only an example, just as this about zetsu is, have several more theories about it!

whatever the case, i know that zetsu is some sort of key to the moon!, will post one of my theories about it!

and i didnt say that a non human can never be a villian, i said that kishi is just not the type!!

make sure you understand before you judge bro!

That actually quite an interesting theory :flaw:

 

[silenceofthelambs]

First of all, if you start making real life examples again like you did in minato vs madara thread. I am ending my conversation with you. If there is anything I can't stand is people making real life examples to support their assumption.

Have in mind that naruto is made in Japan. There is a difference of culture and etc in Japan.



the second is assuming that they are master bounty hunters based on how they are tracking them. Assumptions can either be true or wrong. Those kunais weren't distraction, those kunais had seals that allowed him to teleport next to the kunais. Minato had the hand seal of kagebushin. Basically he wouldn't have needed the help of the other ninjas. He would have just done kagebushin before and have his copies throw the kunais then teleport. But to make it faster, he told the other ninjas to throw the kunais.

And one of the ninjas said just observe and don't blink because it will finish in a blink of an eye.



If you are saying that the third's full power was when he fought orochimaru then with more reason he is not powerful than minato. I purposely avoid mentioning that fight because supposedly that fight doesn't count because he was old.



I just showed you the evidence, other thing is that you are a hard headed person who doesn't accept. If you want an animated version then watch the animated version when madara was talking with sasuke about his past.

If you don't accept my evidence then show me an evidence that contradicts it or anything better than mine.

I read my entire post again, and I don't see a real-life example anywhere. Where exactly did you find one? I would like to know. And I am aware that Naruto is made in Japan; I think I know that much about the story, don't I?

The Second Hokage was not assuming that the ninja after them were master bounty hunters; it was his ability, by placing his index finger on the ground, to calculate the presence and number of enemy ninja, also being able to determine his squad's chances of survival. He knew what he was doing when he chose to be the decoy for his squad, and it was not a "mistake," as you said in another post of yours. If Tobirama could fight them, then why wouldn't he? To be a master bounty hunter requires a lot of skill, and twenty of them took down the second most powerful Hokage in history.

Since Minato told the ninja to throw the kunai over at the Iwagakure ninja, then it is meant to be a distraction, to take their eyes off Minato so he can defeat them. While he might not have needed the ninja to help him, they were there, and so they gave him assistance, which makes your statement "he defeated them all by himself" incorrect. Perhaps Minato could have done that, but he didn't. Despite what we want to think, we have to look at what actually happened first. When I mentioned Sarutobi's fight with Orochimaru, you asked me to name one where Sarutobi used all the techniques in his arsenal; in that fight, he used most of the techniques he knew, but then you distort my words by telling me I said that was the point when Sarutobi was most powerful. You wanted a fight where Sarutobi was forced to use all his power, regardless of age. I gave you one. However, since Sarutobi managed to go up against Orochimaru and the revived First and Second Hokages in his old age, it only shows how much more powerful Sarutobi was in his prime. Maybe it is due to Minato's early death, but he is weaker than the Hokages who came before him.

Hashirama had Mokuton techniques designed to suppress the fox, and consequently used it against Madara in his prime (who also had the Nine-Tailed Fox and the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan), managing to win by the end of the battle. But this is most likely because Hashirama gained control of the Nine-Tails and used it against Madara, resulting in his defeat (chapter 500, page 5). Tobirama Senju had great mastery of water release, and could create large bodies of water even where there is no source from which to use. He could perform a technique known as Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet with one hand seal, where it normally requires 44 hand seals. He was also one of the three people able to use Edo Tensei, a great asset for the user which can essentially make him impossible to defeat because of the opponent's preoccupation with the revived. Sarutobi was so powerful in his prime that he was hailed as "the god of Shinobi," with Iruka even adding that he was the strongest Hokage Konoha ever had. He knew all forms of Shinobi combat, and had an extraordinarily vast knowledge of jutsu, knowing every single technique in Konoha. He was one of the two people who could use Shiki Fuujin, the other being the Fourth Hokage. Tell me, does Minato really match up to any of these Hokage?

While you did show me evidence, you just use it to fit your argument, not presenting it cleanly, as it is. Do you want me to accept evidence that could be incorrect altogether? I've already pointed out several mistakes in your other posts; apparently you want me to "accept" false information. I will continue being hardheaded until your evidence is actually correct. And for all I know, I see nothing wrong with being stubborn. I just force you to think more so you can make less mistakes in your posts.

 

[Hipster Madara]

here is one of my earlier posts, some possibilities on what zetsu might be!!

1-unseal something, or seal something or both
2-release something, or keep something from being released or both
3-open something, or keep something locked or both
4-seperate something
5-maintain something
6-hold something off/keeping something from doing something
7-reunite something
8-hide something or reveal something, or both
9-revive something, or destroy something, or both
10-complete something
............(continues)

no offense but that was WAY too long O.O u should post a thread about it.....lol

 

[yondaimeminato]

I read my entire post again, and I don't see a real-life example anywhere. Where exactly did you find one? I would like to know. And I am aware that Naruto is made in Japan; I think I know that much about the story, don't I?

Let's say the president's wife just gave birth; do you think the president would be off doing other things simply because he is the president? Sure, his position might precede his private life, but I am sure that he would take at least a few hours off to see how everyone is doing.

During the American Civil War, the South felt that the North was robbing their way of life, and began seceding from the Union

^yea

The Second Hokage was not assuming that the ninja after them were master bounty hunters; it was his ability, by placing his index finger on the ground, to calculate the presence and number of enemy ninja, also being able to determine his squad's chances of survival. He knew what he was doing when he chose to be the decoy for his squad, and it was not a "mistake," as you said in another post of yours. If Tobirama could fight them, then why wouldn't he? To be a master bounty hunter requires a lot of skill, and twenty of them took down the second most powerful Hokage in history.

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the second himself said that "from the way they are tracking us, I'd say they are Kumogakure Master Bounty hunters". that sounds like a guess to me, he is basing it by the way they were tracking them.

Minato uses the same thing here as well.

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Since Minato told the ninja to throw the kunai over at the Iwagakure ninja, then it is meant to be a distraction, to take their eyes off Minato so he can defeat them. While he might not have needed the ninja to help him, they were there, and so they gave him assistance, which makes your statement "he defeated them all by himself" incorrect. Perhaps Minato could have done that, but he didn't. Despite what we want to think, we have to look at what actually happened first. When I mentioned Sarutobi's fight with Orochimaru, you asked me to name one where Sarutobi used all the techniques in his arsenal; in that fight, he used most of the techniques he knew, but then you distort my words by telling me I said that was the point when Sarutobi was most powerful. You wanted a fight where Sarutobi was forced to use all his power, regardless of age. I gave you one. However, since Sarutobi managed to go up against Orochimaru and the revived First and Second Hokages in his old age, it only shows how much more powerful Sarutobi was in his prime. Maybe it is due to Minato's early death, but he is weaker than the Hokages who came before him.

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basically minato was the one who defeated them by himself, he just asked them to throw the kunais to the battle and watch him. for minato, that wasn't meant for distraction, it was so that he can teleport near the kunais and kill them.

Hashirama had Mokuton techniques designed to suppress the fox, and consequently used it against Madara in his prime (who also had the Nine-Tailed Fox and the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan), managing to win by the end of the battle. But this is most likely because Hashirama gained control of the Nine-Tails and used it against Madara, resulting in his defeat (chapter 500, page 5). Tobirama Senju had great mastery of water release, and could create large bodies of water even where there is no source from which to use. He could perform a technique known as Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet with one hand seal, where it normally requires 44 hand seals. He was also one of the three people able to use Edo Tensei, a great asset for the user which can essentially make him impossible to defeat because of the opponent's preoccupation with the revived. Sarutobi was so powerful in his prime that he was hailed as "the god of Shinobi," with Iruka even adding that he was the strongest Hokage Konoha ever had. He knew all forms of Shinobi combat, and had an extraordinarily vast knowledge of jutsu, knowing every single technique in Konoha. He was one of the two people who could use Shiki Fuujin, the other being the Fourth Hokage. Tell me, does Minato really match up to any of these Hokage?

I know that about madara but did madara had the teleportation power and the power to make things go through him when he was at his prime or younger?

I have proven that he doesn't, it's your problem if you don't believe me.

You make the second hokage look great then why wasn't he able to defeat 20 people. He also had six fine shinobis by his side.

While you did show me evidence, you just use it to fit your argument, not presenting it cleanly, as it is. Do you want me to accept evidence that could be incorrect altogether? I've already pointed out several mistakes in your other posts; apparently you want me to "accept" false information. I will continue being hardheaded until your evidence is actually correct. And for all I know, I see nothing wrong with being stubborn. I just force you to think more so you can make less mistakes in your posts.

for me, all you do is use other people comments and correct them when you yourself can not bring a single evidence. All you do is make assumptions.

You assume that those bounty hunters were the greatest

you assume that minato made those ninjas use those kunais for distraction

you assume what people had say of the third is correct. Would the third had been able to get the same result as the fourth hokage, if he had fought madara?

you call this correction of mistakes. Correcting assumption with another assumption is not really correcting.

 

[Scorps]

There's a lot of discussion about what hokage was strongest and weakest, but the button line is that all of this seems more like fans from different hokages in a battle to see who's the strongest.

There aren't even enough data on the 5 hokages to come good conclusions. Minato died to young to see what he would be capable of doing and we are yet to see him battle. The 1st should be strong from what we know from the way Madara talks about him, but the only time we saw him battle was with endo tensei and it represented only a fraction of his abilities. The 2nd we don't even know that much about him, so we can't say if he was strong or weak. The 3rd was old when we saw him fight, so who know's if what they say he was capable of doing is right. And even tsunade...we haven't see her doing a real fight. We saw her protect and save konoha's citizen with creation rebirth wich is a feat all by it self, but she has more up her sleeve. And the fight with orochimaru doesn't count, because neither of them was shown fighting with all they're strength. Orochimaru, jiraya and tsunade were all "handicaped" in that fight: kishi didn't want to show us they're true powers then, leaving key moments for them to show it. Like jyraya vs pain, orochimaru vs sasuke, naruto and itachi and tsunade has yet to have her own.


And all of this conjecture depends on the next chapter, were we are going to see what madara (with his powers greatly reduced) can do and what minato can do.

My prediction:

1st scenario: minato tries to attack madara but can't hurt him, so he turns instead to the fox, sealing it. Controlling the fox with only one eye leaves madara too weak to directly fight minato. He then sees that minato is going to seal the fox and that he can't stop it, so he disapears in the shadows, not being able to do a thing.

2nd scenario: after arriving at konoha with the fox, madara, exausted from controlling it, disapears in the shadows, trusting that minato can't win against the fox. Minato tries to fight the fox but soon sees that he has to seal it away for good. He never gets to see Madara and fight him one on one.

What do you think?

 

[yondaimeminato]

There's a lot of discussion about what hokage was strongest and weakest, but the button line is that all of this seems more like fans from different hokages in a battle to see who's the strongest.

There aren't even enough data on the 5 hokages to come good conclusions. Minato died to young to see what he would be capable of doing and we are yet to see him battle. The 1st should be strong from what we know from the way Madara talks about him, but the only time we saw him battle was with endo tensei and it represented only a fraction of his abilities. The 2nd we don't even know that much about him, so we can't say if he was strong or weak. The 3rd was old when we saw him fight, so who know's if what they say he was capable of doing is right. And even tsunade...we haven't see her doing a real fight. We saw her protect and save konoha's citizen with creation rebirth wich is a feat all by it self, but she has more up her sleeve. And the fight with orochimaru doesn't count, because neither of them was shown fighting with all they're strength. Orochimaru, jiraya and tsunade were all "handicaped" in that fight: kishi didn't want to show us they're true powers then, leaving key moments for them to show it. Like jyraya vs pain, orochimaru vs sasuke, naruto and itachi and tsunade has yet to have her own.


And all of this conjecture depends on the next chapter, were we are going to see what madara (with his powers greatly reduced) can do and what minato can do.

My prediction:

1st scenario: minato tries to attack madara but can't hurt him, so he turns instead to the fox, sealing it. Controlling the fox with only one eye leaves madara too weak to directly fight minato. He then sees that minato is going to seal the fox and that he can't stop it, so he disapears in the shadows, not being able to do a thing.

2nd scenario: after arriving at konoha with the fox, madara, exausted from controlling it, disapears in the shadows, trusting that minato can't win against the fox. Minato tries to fight the fox but soon sees that he has to seal it away for good. He never gets to see Madara and fight him one on one.

What do you think?

well yea, I just want to see how minato managed to seal the nine tail demon fox. Madara said that he waited a long time to unseal the nine tail demon fox, I am sure he wouldn't want to wait another long time to undo the seal of naruto. I am sure madara would have tried to stop minato but he couldn't. I just want to see how minato was able to accomplish this even though he said that madara saw through everything he did.

we are going to see something in the next chapter about what truly happened 16 years ago.

I can't wait.

 

[kyubikiran]

everybody is saying 3rd hokage knows so many jutsus...that and this...i would say one thing...as jirayia said in the battle against orachimaru...its not the number of jutsus which makes u a ninja or a strong person its the will to never give up....having number of jutsus in ur arsenal is not at all important..

 

[kydo]

2nd hokage got killed by 20, plus he had 6 more shinobis with him to help him and good ones

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50 or more minato killed them all by himself then

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Here minato says he got information that they were thousand ninjas in the front line. How many did minato really kill/defeat?

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after finishing his job on the battlefield minato went and rescued kakashi and killed/defeated other 10-20

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about the third, all I know about him are just talks, I haven't seem the third in an important battle where he was pushed to use all his strength until then I can't say that the third is stronger than minato

I don't think the third would have gotten the same result as minato did in the nine tail demon fox attack as minato.


as for the battle madara vs the first. Madara didn't have the speed or the powers he had to go through things when he fought minato

looks like he gets hit a lot even with his EMS

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I don't see the speed that madara has in here

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face messed up

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stabbed = current power wouldn't let this happen

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thnx to that guy and his post i realised many things, altho it wasnt actualy things he mentioned lol.

1. Hashirama posibly was battleing with Madara for years b4 the peace treaty, so Hashirama would have alot of time to understand Madara's abilities and fighting stlye.Even if it was only months they were battleing, Madara stated that they fought many times, so Hashirama got alot of intel on Madara.The other thing is that Hashirama had the body while Madara had the chakra of the sage, so its only natural that Hashirama (or another senju) would be the only people to have a fair fight against Madara.I think its safe to say Minato had the much harder battle as he was facing a man who had a 100 years or so to become wise and knowledgable of all ninja arts, to make things worse Madara had the nine tails on his side and Minato has no inherited tailed beast suppressing abilities, yet he still saved the day altho he didnt kill' Madara.Hashirama posibly had years, many chances in his many fights to kill Madara yet he still failed.Minato was facing a much wiser, altho weaker Madara.In Madara's case being wiser probably was better than being strong.

2.Madara had a hard time fighting 2 very skilled anbu lvl ninja as he ended up losing an arm by the time the battle was over, so how can the Second Hokage be under rated because he lost to 20 ninja, who had to have atleast 2 or more very skilled ninja among them as they were sent to track a Hokage?

3. Minato is a beast anyway you look at it wether he wins or loses against Madara. He would have without a doubt become the strongest Hokage of all time if he isnt/wasnt already. He created impressive jutsu such as, Rasengan which is even more incredible when completed, the Flying Thunder God technique and the Death Reaper Summoning, these and posibly more all at a young age. It is very impressive that he killed 50 ninja in a short space of time, based on how the ninja was talking, it would only take seconds.So im just helping prove another persons point that Minato could have taken out the 50 of them by himself if necessary, cuz even i he had to make clones, he would only need 4 to match the amount of allies he had at the time. :hypertobi:

 

[minatoisagod]

Tobirama was killed by twenty Kumogakure master bounty hunters; I'm sure that any person wouldn't live long in the same situation. The Iwagakure ninja Minato defeated, this could have been done by many other ninja beside just him; they were not that high-ranking of ninjas. Now, if Minato were facing 50 Kumogakure master bounty hunters, do you think he would defeat them all? And he did not defeat them all by himself - he had other ninja throwing kunai at the enemy to distract them so Minato could defeat them, so yes, he did have assistance. Next, even if Minato did receive information that there were a thousand enemy ninja on the front line, that doesn't mean he singlehandedly killed them all. You cannot use his words like that to fit your argument.

You say that everything you know about the Third Hokage is just from conversations that people had? If you recall, he fought Orochimaru during Sunagakure's invasion of Konoha, who also summoned Hashirama and Tobirama to take care of him. Is this not a battle where Sarutobi was forced to use all his strength? Incorrect facts again from you. If Minato were to go up against the same opponents, the results would be worse. For one, Minato doesn't know as many techniques as Sarutobi does, and secondly, if he tries defeating Orochimaru with speed, remember that there are two revived corpses, the two most powerful Hokages in history, that he must deal with.

During Madara's battle with Hashirama, Madara's objective was to take revenge against Konoha, so eventually he would have to make an attack (as shown in the manga), and as Fu and Torune said, counterattack makes him susceptible to defeat, in one sense or another. Once again, you are simply assuming that Madara did not have his space-time ability then; what is to suggest that he didn't? Provide evidence of your claim, otherwise it holds no ground. The Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan does not make one invincible, unable to be harmed; your observation that he got hit a considerable amount with the doujutsu should be obvious. Once again, nothing in the manga suggests that the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan makes the user impervious to harm, so users, naturally, are going to be physically hurt. Despite the extraordinary speed Madara has, he is not going to be able to use it in all occasions, so of course we are not going to see it every time Madara is shown in the manga. And Madara's face is not "messed up" in the link you provided; he is simply roaring while battling a tough opponent. And in the last link you showed, Madara was, of course, making attacks to try and defeat Hashirama, so while Madara made himself corporeal, Hashirama could have stabbed him in that moment, thus defeating him. Just because he was impaled does not mean that Madara did not have his space-time ninjutsu back then; when two opponents battle, they will physical contact, in one form or another. But it does not mean what you are trying to say in your post. That is just another assumption.

most what was said right here sound arrogant and stupid and as u said based on assumptions. how the hell do u know the third has more techs than the forth? and how the hell do you know how the battle would turn up btw him and Oro dude stop making stupid hypothesis and just stick to your opinion that the 1st or who ever is strongest for you and not try convince people with dumb guesses

 

[Dragon Lord]

here is one of my earlier posts, some possibilities on what zetsu might be!!

1-unseal something, or seal something or both
2-release something, or keep something from being released or both
3-open something, or keep something locked or both
4-seperate something
5-maintain something
6-hold something off/keeping something from doing something
7-reunite something
8-hide something or reveal something, or both
9-revive something, or destroy something, or both
10-complete something
............(continues)

no offense but that was WAY too long O.O u should post a thread about it.....lol

no offence taken!, and thank you, but i did post a thread about it, but i dont think that many read it anyway lol

 

[yondaimeminato]

thnx to that guy and his post i realised many things, altho it wasnt actualy things he mentioned lol.

1. Hashirama posibly was battleing with Madara for years b4 the peace treaty, so Hashirama would have alot of time to understand Madara's abilities and fighting stlye.Even if it was only months they were battleing, Madara stated that they fought many times, so Hashirama got alot of intel on Madara.The other thing is that Hashirama had the body while Madara had the chakra of the sage, so its only natural that Hashirama (or another senju) would be the only people to have a fair fight against Madara.I think its safe to say Minato had the much harder battle as he was facing a man who had a 100 years or so to become wise and knowledgable of all ninja arts, to make things worse Madara had the nine tails on his side and Minato has no inherited tailed beast suppressing abilities, yet he still saved the day altho he didnt kill' Madara.Hashirama posibly had years, many chances in his many fights to kill Madara yet he still failed.Minato was facing a much wiser, altho weaker Madara.In Madara's case being wiser probably was better than being strong.

Yea, even the first failed to kill madara. Obviously the two of them knew about each other a lot when minato had no idea of the abilities and strength of madara when he showed up. It was basically like asuma fighting Hidan and still manage to steal away madara's nine tail demon fox and save the village.

2.Madara had a hard time fighting 2 very skilled anbu lvl ninja as he ended up losing an arm by the time the battle was over, so how can the Second Hokage be under rated because he lost to 20 ninja, who had to have atleast 2 or more very skilled ninja among them as they were sent to track a Hokage?

Yeah I am just trying to point this out. The second hokage had six other fine shinobis with him. The third hokage probably at it's prime, a sharingan user, danzo and three other shinobis which I would expect them to be strong since they were with the second hokage. Plus, the second hokage would have even out the numbers with edo tensei. Kabuto was able to summon 6 coffins at once.

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I just think the second hokage exaggerated

3. Minato is a beast anyway you look at it wether he wins or loses against Madara. He would have without a doubt become the strongest Hokage of all time if he isnt/wasnt already. He created impressive jutsu such as, Rasengan which is even more incredible when completed, the Flying Thunder God technique and the Death Reaper Summoning, these and posibly more all at a young age. It is very impressive that he killed 50 ninja in a short space of time, based on how the ninja was talking, it would only take seconds.So im just helping prove another persons point that Minato could have taken out the 50 of them by himself if necessary, cuz even i he had to make clones, he would only need 4 to match the amount of allies he had at the time. :hypertobi:

well yea and he was still young. Sadly he had to make the choice to seal the nine tail demon fox into naruto. He also found out something that night about the mask man

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^ because of that information minato found out that minato chose to seal the nine tail demon fox into naruto and give up his life.

 

[Degrees]

the "1st" page start with sasuke n naruto and the last with sasuke, so its not a "theory", its just a feeling that something is gonna happen to baby sasuke.

If that happened it would be so stupid. With that said I'm not belittling your theory, but it would explain how the **** Sasuke got all that chakra in the last arc. I'm guessing a lot of people asked Kishi how the hell Sasuke got so much chakra, that might be why he would use your theory.

Anyway there is something off about Madara, I don't know what it is but he seems more like Tobi than Madara in that last chapter.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

^yea

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the second himself said that "from the way they are tracking us, I'd say they are Kumogakure Master Bounty hunters". that sounds like a guess to me, he is basing it by the way they were tracking them.

Minato uses the same thing here as well.

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basically minato was the one who defeated them by himself, he just asked them to throw the kunais to the battle and watch him. for minato, that wasn't meant for distraction, it was so that he can teleport near the kunais and kill them.



I know that about madara but did madara had the teleportation power and the power to make things go through him when he was at his prime or younger?

I have proven that he doesn't, it's your problem if you don't believe me.

You make the second hokage look great then why wasn't he able to defeat 20 people. He also had six fine shinobis by his side.



for me, all you do is use other people comments and correct them when you yourself can not bring a single evidence. All you do is make assumptions.

You assume that those bounty hunters were the greatest

you assume that minato made those ninjas use those kunais for distraction

you assume what people had say of the third is correct. Would the third had been able to get the same result as the fourth hokage, if he had fought madara?

you call this correction of mistakes. Correcting assumption with another assumption is not really correcting.

Those were real-life examples from another post, and another thread entirely. You might have found those, but I was asking you to find those same examples in my previous post, not in all of them. Besides, sometimes, if you put things in different words like that, it helps the person see what you're trying to say, so it's not bad all the time.

While Tobirama might have been estimating initially as to who their opponents exactly were, he is proved right due to his death shortly after. Besides, if Tobirama was just "guessing," as you said, why would he automatically jump to the worst conclusion and tell his squad they were master bounty hunters, instead of just ninja, putting fear in all their hearts? And since Minato uses the same ability Tobirama does, are you sure he is not guessing as well? Both are giving their squad members a general estimate of what they are facing, and they are proved right every time they use it.

And as for the kunai, they serve two purposes. Since the other ninja do throw kunai at the Iwagakure ninja, it could distract them from what they are trying to do, because anyone who sees such a weapon coming their way is going to divert their gaze to deal with the lethal object heading towards them. But you are right, it is meant for Minato to transport himself to the enemy's location. However, considering the objects being thrown are kunai, would they not distract the Iwagakure ninja from their plans? To me it seems that way.

There is not much to go off of as to whether Madara had his space-time ninjutsu in his prime, or younger, but once again, nothing in the manga suggests that he didn't. If you would, have a look at this:

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. Fu said that Madara "has to become solid again to attack," so during his fight with Hashirama, he was most likely stabbed while solid, and that was the point of his defeat. For all we know, Madara's space-time ninjutsu could be a result of Madara's Mangekyou Sharingan being awakened, though there is no evidence of this. I really don't see how you have proved Madara did not have his ability then. All you say is "stabbed = current power wouldn't let this happen;" when Madara sent Torune to the alternate dimension that has yet to be elaborated upon, his right arm got infected (because of Torune's poisonous bugs), and that was because he was solid - does this,

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not prove what I have said? Something of the same nature most likely happened while Madara was battling Hashirama; Madara's body was solid long enough for Hashirama to attack and defeat him.

The Second Hokage was indeed a powerful ninja, but he recognized when he was outmatched, and thus decided to be the decoy, because even though he did have six capable ninja by his side, all of them together still would not be able to go up against the Kumogakure master bounty hunters. Tell me, what is better, losing one life, or seven? If you will,

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. Even plans of taking the bounty hunters by surprise were put down by Sarutobi because they wouldn't work. And still you say they could have defeated all twenty of them. They weren't even attempting to fight them - they just wanted an escape route, which they got, albeit the death of Tobirama. Everyone is making assumptions, but the question is: can one make them by presenting evidence as it is, or distort it simply to fit one's argument, as you have done by seemingly "proving" to me that Madara did not have his space-time ninjutsu in his prime?

According to Iruka, Sarutobi was the strongest Hokage Konoha ever had (my original hypothesis that Hashirama was the strongest might be wrong), so in my opinion Sarutobi would have been able to put up a fight against Madara. What most people say about others turns out to be correct, because for most, judging between accurate and false information tends to be difficult. And for what reason would information about the Third, for example, be incorrect? The ones who speak about him are people that have known for a good amount of time, so they would have correct knowledge about his skills and abilities, for example Iruka. Correcting others' mistakes might be just as good as providing evidence, because through correction, evidence appears when the statements are made true. Sometimes evidence might not be the most powerful thing in an argument - being able to find mistakes in one's words might just be all the more powerful.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

most what was said right here sound arrogant and stupid and as u said based on assumptions. how the hell do u know the third has more techs than the forth? and how the hell do you know how the battle would turn up btw him and Oro dude stop making stupid hypothesis and just stick to your opinion that the 1st or who ever is strongest for you and not try convince people with dumb guesses

Here's a list of all the techniques the Third Hokage knew:

Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Clone Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Missile
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Missile
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique

Here's a list of all the techniques the Fourth Hokage knew:

Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Eight Trigrams Sealing Style
Flying Thunder God Technique
Four Symbols Seal
Rasengan
Summoning Technique (Toads)

Please tell me who knows more techniques. Sarutobi has twelve in his arsenal, while Minato has six. The fundamental laws of algebra tell us that twelve is greater than six; need I say more? As far as Hashirama being the strongest Hokage (Sarutobi could be on equal footing for this title as well), it can be deduced due to the strength he possessed and the things he managed to accomplish in his life. I tire of writing the same thing over again, I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself.

 

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

Ah bro i couldnt agree with you more on sakura!! ask anyone who hates sakura most in the world? ITS ME!! lol, and back magic was a nice example!

what will sakuras mission be this time?, maybe to bring back tsunade to life! lol, but if naruto will give her the thumbs up again, i will go into the manga and break his finger so he wouldnt have any thumb to up again! lol

about tsunade, well, i like tsunade, and i dont want her to die, i also iked jiraya alot!, but then, who doesnt!

Good one cutting Naruto's thumb by doing that he won't be able to give stupid promises to Sakura

 

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

nidaime-sama is the second hokage. Danzou was talking about how many they were right then. Well, minato killed him in seconds because of his jutsu and speed. The second is just estimating how many people were following them and based on how they were tracking them, the second called them Master Bounty Hunters without even seeing them first. We have seen that the cloud nation had sensory type ninjas so it would be a way for them to track the second hokage.

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The second hokage only assumed them to be strong but he was the "Second Hokage" who is cable of doing edo tensei and he had danzou, sharingan user and the third hokage probably at their best or else they wouldn't be with the second hokage.

They were 7 in that moment and with the second's edo tensei, he would have increase their numbers to 10-12, enough to take the enemy down

For me, the second hokage exaggerated and made a mistake. I believe he would have defeated them

All right guys yes we don't really know much about the former Hokages but when one thinks about the way the Second died one will think its just that Kishi wanted to show how Sarutobi became Hokage. I mean all right let those twenty be bounty masters or whatever so those ninjas are at most ANBU level or special Jounin level right. We have seen that against Hokage level ninjas the so called special Jounins or ANBU are no match. Someone also mentioned about how Fu and Torune were able to take down Madara's arm but the thing is Madara was just playing with those two and all of us knows it. The moment he was serious he defeated them easily. So maybe for a Hokage level ninja taking on 20 very good ninja may be tough true but the thing is he also had six or seven very good ninjas on his side. In my opinion the Second Hokage just overestimated his opponents. But really what I think is Kishi just wanted to show how Sarutobi was selected Hokage at such a young age because when Sarutobi fought the reincarnated version of the 1st and 2nd he had a flashback of those two saying "from tomorrow you are the Hokage" so I guess Kishi was just trying to show how did Sarutobi became Hokage at such a young age.

 

[Akatsuki leader]

guys kakashi never gonna be a hokage just FACE the TRUTH!!!! kakashi its not a SENJU!!! kakashi role its not to be a hokage..... kakashi role its "teaching"
every character have a "role" a "destiny" why "born" naruto born to be a hokage like other senjus.... sasuke born to be revenger... like every uchiha "exept itachi" neji born to die.... and until serve naruto like a little puppet.... konohamaru too born to be a hokage....
Every hokage is senju..... naruto too "senju"... konohamaru too "senju"... and dont count danzou to hokage..... ucking retard konoha not gonna chose not senju man.

 

[Konoha Rokudaime]

Guys, about the strongest hokage debate, why don't you discusss in some other thread. This thread is for the current manga discussion and next manga prediction. Sorry for the reminder

tobis eye turned from the three tomoes into a full moon shape tomoe!!, this is perhaps how he controls the kyuubi!!

the jyuubis body is still on the moon afterall, and so may be his mind, and that may be why a full moon is needed

Its not Tobi's eyes that turned to full moon shape but the Kyubi's.

 

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

guys kakashi never gonna be a hokage just FACE the TRUTH!!!! kakashi its not a SENJU!!! kakashi role its not to be a hokage..... kakashi role its "teaching"
every character have a "role" a "destiny" why "born" naruto born to be a hokage like other senjus.... sasuke born to be revenger... like every uchiha "exept itachi" neji born to die.... and until serve naruto like a little puppet.... konohamaru too born to be a hokage....
Every hokage is senju..... naruto too "senju"... konohamaru too "senju"... and dont count danzou to hokage..... ucking retard konoha not gonna chose not senju man.

Well I think except a few renowned clans like the Hyuuga and Sharingan all the others in Konoha are suppose to be a Senju and besides even if Kakashi is not a Senju it really doesn't matter because he was just moments away from being the Hokage. I am sure that in the future if Tsuande retires and if Kakashi is alive he will be the next Hokage and Kakashi would look cool too as the Hokage

 

[baah]

guys i think i discovered something important..... take a look....

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here itachi is saying that after madara lost to hashirama...madara is still alive and well...AS DO HIS EYES AND POWERS.....
then:

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now here itachi is saying that after madara was stopped by minato.... he is nothing now but a shell of his former self.....
these evidences apparently tells that minato was the one who ripped off madara's power not hashirama..... maybe he just dont want anyone to know that he is behind the kyuubi incident so he said that hashirama was the one who did it.........maybe he wants to use the kyuubi incident as an excuse to make the shinobi world believe he is dead...maybe madara wants to hide behind the shadows of akatsuki until the moon's eye plan is complete...

itachi knew that madara was the one who was behind the kyuubi attack...so i think that itachi discovered it from that very night of the kyuubi attack... madara saw something interesting in itachi (maybe it involves sasuke)...so he decided not to kill itachi...

i tought about it and made sure it suits the present scenario....so what do you guys think??