Kisame vs Danzo and Edo Hiruzen

[super yang]

I'm trying to figure out how Baku is in any shape of form a threat to Kisame in the dome or outside of it.
Inside the dome would either have Baku choked to death from consuming too much water. Or Kisame can simply go inside of Baku and suck it dry of chakra.

granted

Outside of the dome would have Kisame countering with SV. Don't give me the crap about suction pulling Kisame out of the ground. Baku couldn't even rip trees off. Good luck pulling Kisame meters below the ground.

except baku is a counter to spitting out a lake... either way, danzo still has sharingan to track SV kisame, so he stops with the vomit, goes underground but gets hit w/ a fuu'ton since SV isn't that deep & is telegraphed.

if U say well kisame can just go deeper in spite of feats, then i'd counter that danzo would go to work w/ mokuton by the same token

 

[Lord Tywin]

granted


except baku is a counter to spitting out a lake... either way, danzo still has sharingan to track SV kisame, so he stops with the vomit, goes underground but gets hit w/ a fuu'ton since SV isn't that deep & is telegraphed.

if U say well kisame can just go deeper in spite of feats, then i'd counter that danzo would go to work w/ mokuton by the same token

I'd like to see a feat of Danzo going underground anywhere presented in the manga. Or him keeping up with Kisame while he's using SV.

 

[super yang]

I'd like to see a feat of Danzo going underground anywhere presented in the manga. Or him keeping up with Kisame while he's using SV.

....?

granted


except baku is a counter to spitting out a lake... either way, danzo still has sharingan to track SV kisame, so he stops with the vomit, goes underground but gets hit w/ a fuu'ton since SV isn't that deep & is telegraphed.

if U say well kisame can just go deeper in spite of feats, then i'd counter that danzo would go to work w/ mokuton by the same token

at what point did i say danzo goes underground


if ur gonna claim kisame can counter a summon who is already countering him, AND the caster of the summon who is under no duress, simply by going under ground by some ''lolspeed'' logic, then U R wasting both of our time. i'm not a debater & I refuse to go in those stupid circles

 

[Curse Mark]

What do you mean by here? Didnt he

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? Or was that mistranslated?

Lol he was totally about to.

Not saying he could use it as proficiently as Kisame but he was able to use his other jutsu.

Why would he be bluffing against someone who had no intel on the technique?

 

[Lord Tywin]

....?


at what point did i say danzo goes underground


if kisame can counter a summon who is already countering him, AND the caster of the summon who is under no duress, simply by going under ground by some ''lolspeed'' logic, then U R wasting both of our time. i'm not a debater & I refuse to go in those stupid circles

I read that part wrong. But literally nothings suggest Baku can be summoned and start its suction before Kisame can move underground. SV has been given no range, so I don't see why Kisame can't go someplace with no trace of him to be seen.

 

[super yang]

I read that part wrong. But literally nothings suggest Baku can be summoned and start its suction before Kisame can move underground. SV has been given no range, so I don't see why Kisame can't go someplace with no trace of him to be seen.

have a nice evening...

 

[Brother Numpsay]

at what point did i say danzo goes underground

Even if you did:

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EASY COPY FOR DANZO via Sharingan

 

[Beans2]

Damn Boy I swear you're Slow as ****! smh

1. How does him entering the area attempting to ambush Team Gai counts as him starting the jutsu when he meets them? lmao So since Millions of ninja start theyre fight with showering Kunais on opponents who didnt know about them till after the fact, means ninjas can start a fake battle like that? lmmfao You look DSPERATE as fuq! First you say he starts with WD and now you're trying to change and say he doesn't. Youre just as retartded as ever and switch up arguments when you are clearly beaten. Stay consistent when Tip riding others please!

Draegod, for once in your life stop acting like a retard. I never once said Kisame would start with water dome, YOU said that Danzo would start by summoning Baku right off the bat, AND IN RESPONSE TO THAT I said that Kisame would use Subterrenean Voyage to go underground and avoid the suction. Jesus christ. :lol. From the horse's mouth:

He can do what ever he deems worthy. And since Baku is instant GG, it is summoned than he uses Izanagi.

-Kisame wouldn't start off with subterrenean voyage for no reason, he would do it only in response to Baku being summoned which makes your example with the kunais irrelevant.

-If Danzo waits for Kisame to spit out a lake before summoning Baku, then Kisame uses the preexisting water from his lake to form GSB and one shot the summon.

And get that retarded ass notion out of here that the suction would deform the shark missile. Baku's suction never has and never will disperse an jutsu, please get it through your head that he is INHALING which only means that he draws the jutsu TOWARDS him, if it were exhaling then you might have a point, but it doesn't, so you don't. If I point a

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at you while it's running and you counter with a

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, the stream of water will disperse and be blown back in my face. But if the leafblower is instead sucking air in towards it, the water stream will just go right towards the opening of the leafblower without being dispersed.

Do you even know how Suction works? Are you retarded to not know simple suction physics when it comes to space?

Im going to break it down to your dumb ass in steps!

- If Kisame attempts WD off bat (like what was og stated, atleast FT is consistant), Danzo with knowledge will summon Baku off bat since he knows there is no counter.
- If Danzo decides to cancle WD (well your retarded ass switching it up), sharingan would see and instead activate Izanagi and summon Baku later.

Simple! Either way Kisame is not beating either 1 v 1 and def not the 2 at once!

You either know you're wrong, or are incredibly stupid to think suction would vacuum up Kisame WHILE HE'S UNDERGROUND. If Kisame moves directly down into the earth, the suction's range won't reach him. Baku sucks in only one direction. Kisame would have to be sucked directly upwards first, then drawn towards Baku in front of him, to be drawn in. Wish I could draw this out for you, dont have any drawing apps on this computer though.

-Addressed.
-Addressed.

It's fact He needs water to use the jutsu unless stated or shown else where. Show pics or scans of the jutsu being used with out pre-existing water. I have facts, not fanfic. Majority of the time he has ever used shark missle (big/small) jutsu it has been with water surrounding him. Kisame zetsu clone was never going to use GSB, get that fanfic out of here. And now you wanna say Zetsu clones can use super powerful jutsu'd but at first you didnt. lmmfao Youre weak as fuq i swear! And ofcourse your Scary ass has no contributing argument.

Absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence. You literally have no proof that he can't use it without a water source other than "he's never done it" which is a terrible argument considering he's never tried to or had a reason to use it without a water source. Mei never used acid mist in an open location before. Hmm, guess that means acid mist only works in an enclosed area? Yeah, get that BS out of here. Manga implies it can be done as seen with Zetsu attempting to use it, and how Kisame used a much superior suiton (WD) without a water source. The ignorance is just too much. Smh. Smh.

Just keep riding KG, and stop trying so hard to be FT's friend. lmao

Says the guy dickriding super yang. Lmao.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Priorities means the very fact that the whole dome is already at used from another jutsu via Shark Dance:

- The jutsu that the manga exploit its capability and WEAKNESS. Saying it can do more under it, is contradicting the jutsu's weakness that was already explained and countered in the manga (dont even bring up Kisame having no weakness, like it carries any relevance to the actual jutsu)

- You can't argue that Dai Bakusui Shōha is capable of doing jutsu Shark Dance, as is Shark Dance capable of doing jutsu Dai Bakusui Shōha can.

- The water source is no longer usable once the jutsu is finished[

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]. And based on my two points above, you have to prove it can exchanged back to Bakusui Shōha.

First, I'd like to see something from this manga that implies that your whole priorities issue is even a thing, because I have no idea where you're even getting it from. Second, I already gave you a perfect manga example on why it isn't a relevant point. Kisame used the Water Prison Jutsu from the very water source that was being used by the priorities of Mizu Bunshins [

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]. This is literally no different from Kisame using another suiton technique from the water source that takes on the Shark Dances priorities, assuming this is even a thing.

-The jutsus weakness..? Stated by who? the Hachibi! Not Kisame himself. Please understand the difference when things are stated as fact, and when they aren't. Naruto said

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that if he or Bee got hit by Amaterasu, it would be over. Yet, Amaterasu was later easily countered by a simple V1 Chakra cloak that any Jin can use [

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]. Also, the Hachibi explained a possible method on how to counter the WD, that doesn't necessarily imply that it's a for sure weakness that can be easily exploited. Especially in a scenario, where Kisames whole purpose was to drain Bee's chakra until he passes out, rather then killing him. Kisame didn't waist his time using any of his jutsu while on land, for the very same reason he didn't waist his time using it under water. Aside from GSB, which is a possible one shot kill, they served no purpose in this fight. Kisame was aiming to capture Bee via chakra depletion, and needed the WD/Shark Dance combo to counter Bee's V2, while still accomplishing his missions goal. Simple.

-Shouldn't even be a serious argument. Kisame can do any Suiton Technique he wants with a water source, which is what the WD is.

-Another argument, that shouldn't be made while being serious all at the same time. It doesn't need to be exchanged back into Dai Bakusui Shōha, because it still IS Dai Bakusui Shōha. The Shark Dance Technique simply supplements Dai Bakusui Shōha, the two jutsu go hand and hand. Dai Bakusui Shōha IS the existing water source, the jutsu doesn't just disappear because dee dee dee Shark Dance Technique. Without Dai Bakusui Shōha, there isn't a Shark Dance Technique. It not being usable once the jutsu is finished? Lmfao, obviously. Smh. I really can't believe this is real right now.

Draegod, I'll get to your post later on today.

 

[EZQ]

Even if you did:

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EASY COPY FOR DANZO via Sharingan

But does danzo handle suiton and doton?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

First, I'd like to see something from this manga that implies that your whole priorities issue is even a thing, because I have no idea where you're even getting it from.

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​

Second, I already gave you a perfect manga example on why it isn't a relevant point. Kisame used the Water Prison Jutsu from the very water source that was being used by the priorities of Mizu Bunshins [

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]. This is literally no different from Kisame using another suiton technique from the water source that takes on the Shark Dances priorities, assuming this is even a thing.

Both of these jutsu have their own pros and cons with their capability so it isn't the same. If I were to go with this logic I could say that any jutsu, related to each other, could always changed into another jutsu mid way. Water Clones using its body as water source actually makes sense, based on its priorities stated[

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] so I have no idea why you would use a clone jutsu as an example, honestly.

-The jutsus weakness..? Stated by who? the Hachibi! Not Kisame himself. Please understand the difference when things are stated as fact, and when they aren't. Naruto said

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that if he or Bee got hit by Amaterasu, it would be over. Yet, Amaterasu was later easily countered by a simple V1 Chakra cloak that any Jin can use [

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].

Why would Kisame state his own weakness lol? Why would ANYONE state their weak point in their jutsu. Lol no, just like literally everyone else, the character figures it out THEMSELVES. Thats always been shown this way from the manga. Do I really need to makes list of examples, despite you already giving one out, I really hope not.

Also, the Hachibi explained a possible method on how to counter the WD, that doesn't necessarily imply that it's a for sure weakness that can be easily exploited. Especially in a scenario, where Kisames whole purpose was to drain Bee's chakra until he passes out, rather then killing him. Kisame didn't waist his time using any of his jutsu while on land, for the very same reason he didn't waist his time using it under water. Aside from GSB, which is a possible one shot kill, they served no purpose in this fight. Kisame was aiming to capture Bee via chakra depletion, and needed the WD/Shark Dance combo to counter Bee's V2, while still accomplishing his missions goal. Simple.

A "possible" method that has been TESTED and was a SUCCESSES. You have no point FT, no matter what excuse your trying to bring here.

Kisames purpose was to drain out Bee.
Bee had to hold back because of Ponta.
They exploit the fact that they(Bee and Hachibi) needed to move to a opposes direction to see if Ponta would be safe.
Kisame had to TRICK Bee.
Bee forcefully moved Kisame, to move the Dome so Ponta can escape.

All these factor outright shows that this jutsu has a weak point, period.

-Another argument, that shouldn't be made while being serious all at the same time. It doesn't need to be exchanged back into Dai Bakusui Shōha, because it still IS Dai Bakusui Shōha. The Shark Dance Technique simply supplements Dai Bakusui Shōha, the two jutsu go hand and hand. Dai Bakusui Shōha IS the existing water source, the jutsu doesn't just disappear because dee dee dee Shark Dance Technique. Without Dai Bakusui Shōha, there isn't a Shark Dance Technique. It not being usable once the jutsu is finished? Lmfao, obviously. Smh. I really can't believe this is real right now.

Lol this dude, Dai Bakusui is NOT Shark Dance Technique, please get this out of your head. They're both different names and different jutsus. The ONLY thing that makes them go hand to hand is the very FACT that Shark Dance NEEDING its water source to use it. Shark Dance jutsu takes up the WHOLE WATER SOURCE to be used, FACT! I can't believe your actually trying to argue two DIFFERENT jutsu actually are the SAME jutsu.

---

But does danzo handle suiton and doton?

If you read the scan I croped in the full chapter with context: Yamato/Kakashi explains to Naruto that in order for Yamato to use Mokuton, being able to manipulate Doton and Suiton is necessary. And since Danzo can use Mokuton, yes he can handle Suiton and Doton.

 

[EZQ]

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​

Both of these jutsu have their own pros and cons with their capability so it isn't the same. If I were to go with this logic I could say that any jutsu, related to each other, could always changed into another jutsu mid way. Water Clones using its body as water source actually makes sense, based on its priorities stated[

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] so I have no idea why you would use a clone jutsu as an example, honestly.




Why would Kisame state his own weakness lol? Why would ANYONE state their weak point in their jutsu. Lol no, just like literally everyone else, the character figures it out THEMSELVES. Thats always been shown this way from the manga. Do I really need to makes list of examples, despite you already giving one out, I really hope not.



A "possible" method that has been TESTED and was a SUCCESSES. You have no point FT, no matter what excuse your trying to bring here.

Kisames purpose was to drain out Bee.
Bee had to hold back because of Ponta.
They exploit the fact that they(Bee and Hachibi) needed to move to a opposes direction to see if Ponta would be safe.
Kisame had to TRICK Bee.
Bee forcefully moved Kisame, to move the Dome so Ponta can escape.

All these factor outright shows that this jutsu has a weak point, period.





Lol this dude, Dai Bakusui is NOT Shark Dance Technique, please get this out of your head. They're both different names and different jutsus. The ONLY thing that makes them go hand to hand is the very FACT that Shark Dance NEEDING its water source to use it. Shark Dance jutsu takes up the WHOLE WATER SOURCE to be used, FACT! I can't believe your actually trying to argue two DIFFERENT jutsu actually are the SAME jutsu.

---

If you read the scan I croped in the full chapter with context: Yamato/Kakashi explains to Naruto that in order for Yamato to use Mokuton, being able to manipulate Doton and Suiton is necessary. And since Danzo can use Mokuton, yes he can handle Suiton and Doton.

Yes i completely forgot that Danzo uses mokuton.

 

[Curse Mark]

Danzo didn't use Mokuton though. Hashirama's cells became unstable. Like Zetsu (hashirama's cells) in response to kyubbi chakra.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Danzo didn't use Mokuton though. Hashirama's cells became unstable. Like Zetsu (hashirama's cells) in response to kyubbi chakra.

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[Curse Mark]

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Ah, I was thinking of the second time.

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[Forbidden Technique]

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​

Referring to exploiting said weakness, and countering the oppositions jutsu with your own. Has nothing to do with Kisame being incapable of using his own made water source as means of using another Suiton technique solely because it's being used for the Shark Dance Technique or maintaining the priorities of another jutsu.

Both of these jutsu have their own pros and cons with their capability so it isn't the same. If I were to go with this logic I could say that any jutsu, related to each other, could always changed into another jutsu mid way. Water Clones using its body as water source actually makes sense, based on its priorities stated[

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] so I have no idea why you would use a clone jutsu as an example, honestly.

Irrelevant to the point. It is the same, and once again the description doesn't help you. "With water, a firm real body can be created" - this is the priorities of the Mizu Bunshin, yet Kisame was capable of immediately changing it's priorities into the Water Prison Jutsu. It went from the water source Suiton: Bakusui Shōha, into that very same water taking on the priorities of a real physical Kisame cloned body, into the water changing yet again into taking on the heavy water wall priorities of the Water Prison Jutsu. How was this possible? Because despite the different jutsu priorities, the attribute remained the same, which is the water (or Suiton). You'd only have a point if I were to say Kisame is turning Suiton into Katon, for example.

For the last time, Shark Dance Technique changing the priorities of the water source doesn't change the VERY SIMPLE FACT that it is still a existing water source. Just like the Mizu Bunshins didn't change the fact either. As long as the attributes remain the same and are still existent, priorities doesn't make a difference. This is so easy and simple to grasp, it's actually extremely annoying that I'm still seriously addressing this.

Why would Kisame state his own weakness lol? Why would ANYONE state their weak point in their jutsu. Lol no, just like literally everyone else, the character figures it out THEMSELVES. Thats always been shown this way from the manga. Do I really need to makes list of examples, despite you already giving one out, I really hope not.

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Unless the user actually states it, it is not a concrete fact. The opposition can hypothesize on how to counter a jutsu, but it doesn't automatically mean that it is a concrete manga fact. My example of Naruto stating that he or Bee would be finished by Amaterasu if hit, but then later countering it with a simple V1 chakra cloak proves this. Another easy concept to grasp.

A "possible" method that has been TESTED and was a SUCCESSES. You have no point FT, no matter what excuse your trying to bring here.

Kisames purpose was to drain out Bee.
Bee had to hold back because of Ponta.
They exploit the fact that they(Bee and Hachibi) needed to move to a opposes direction to see if Ponta would be safe.
Kisame had to TRICK Bee.
Bee forcefully moved Kisame, to move the Dome so Ponta can escape.

All these factor outright shows that this jutsu has a weak point, period.

Was a success under the specific intentions of not killing his target, and not caring about the other two. You're right. Definitely not a complete different scenario from having real killing/capturing intent for all of them. Kisame used Ponta to his advantage, so that he can draw Bee in, and easily draw contact to absorb the good majority of his chakra. Once he got Bee, Kisame literally didn't give af about what happened to the raccoon. Had he WANTED to capture all of them, yet Ponta still escaped, THEN you would have a solid point. Too bad you don't, along with everything else.

Lol this dude, Dai Bakusui is NOT Shark Dance Technique, please get this out of your head. They're both different names and different jutsus. The ONLY thing that makes them go hand to hand is the very FACT that Shark Dance NEEDING its water source to use it. Shark Dance jutsu takes up the WHOLE WATER SOURCE to be used, FACT! I can't believe your actually trying to argue two DIFFERENT jutsu actually are the SAME jutsu.

?????? Either you're attempting at Draegods piss poor straw man argument, have bad reading comprehension, or just purposely playing outright stupid at this point. Did I not just make multiple posts trying to explain to you the DIFFERENCE between both jutsu? Yet here you are pretending like I've been stating they're the same thing. For the final time, the Shark Dance Technique is USING the water source created from Dai Bakusui Shōha. Do I need to simplify that sentence for you? I'm not stating they're the same thing. That entire body of water IS Dai Bakusui Shōha, and as long as it is still existent and activated, it will remain Dai Bakusui Shōha. The Shark Dance Technique is USING Dai Bakusui Shōha, in other words, it is supplementing it. Just because Shark Dance Technique is USING Dai Bakusui Shōha, doesn't mean Dai Bakusui Shōha is not still in use. Kisame is using BOTH jutsu at once. As long as Dai Bakusui Shōha is still in USE, Kisame can still use it's water source for other Suiton Techniques.

Read it, understand it, get it, meditate on it, let it marinate and sink in your head. I'm getting to the point where once again replying to you is becoming a complete waist of time.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Referring to exploiting said weakness, and countering the oppositions jutsu with your own. Has nothing to do with Kisame being incapable of using his own made water source as means of using another Suiton technique solely because it's being used for the Shark Dance Technique or maintaining the priorities of another jutsu.

Where the hell did you get bold from? Itachi made no statement specifically addressing "jutsu vs jutsu" in both statement. He addressed that all jutsu has its flaws and weaknesses AND THEN addressed what he (or his team) could do to beat it AFTER. Thats a horrible reach to refute my point.

It has something to do based on the fact that we see that this jutsu flaws, only capable of tracking 1 person at a time.

Irrelevant to the point. It is the same, and once again the description doesn't help you. "With water, a firm real body can be created" - this is the priorities of the Mizu Bunshin, yet Kisame was capable of immediately changing it's priorities into the Water Prison Jutsu. It went from the water source Suiton: Bakusui Shōha, into that very same water taking on the priorities of a real physical Kisame cloned body, into the water changing yet again into taking on the heavy water wall priorities of the Water Prison Jutsu. How was this possible? Because despite the different jutsu priorities, the attribute remained the same, which is the water (or Suiton). You'd only have a point if I were to say Kisame is turning Suiton into Katon, for example.

It does support me when your reading the whole thing: Can use "water" to make a firm body "can be created", The sentence implication leaves MORE room to what its also capable of doing. And also have Taijutsu as an example with its advantages. This Clone needs a water source to work, Bakusui Shoha is built for that, point? Clones can use 10 percent of the users ability, plus implied it can use its water source for more then jutsu a firm body. Point?

For the last time, Shark Dance Technique changing the priorities of the water source doesn't change the VERY SIMPLE FACT that it is still a existing water source. Just like the Mizu Bunshins didn't change the fact either. As long as the attributes remain the same and are still existent, priorities doesn't make a difference. This is so easy and simple to grasp, it's actually extremely annoying that I'm still seriously addressing this.

Horrible horrible example to refute my point. Based on above and based on the fact that Mizu Bushin doesnt take the whole damn water source for the jutsu. The whole damn water source becomes movable, the whole damn water source becomes capable of absorbing chakra. The whole water is now used as Shark Dance.

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Unless the user actually states it, it is not a concrete fact. The opposition can hypothesize on how to counter a jutsu, but it doesn't automatically mean that it is a concrete manga fact. My example of Naruto stating that he or Bee would be finished by Amaterasu if hit, but then later countering it with a simple V1 chakra cloak proves this. Another easy concept to grasp.

Scan suppose to prove what? My point? Sasuke compliments the success AFTER?

Ok Ill leave at where you want it, at neutral ground. Can't prove and disprove it, so lets find out where evidence leads more towards.

Was a success under the specific intentions of not killing his target, and not caring about the other two. You're right. Definitely not a complete different scenario from having real killing/capturing intent for all of them. Kisame used Ponta to his advantage, so that he can draw Bee in, and easily draw contact to absorb the good majority of his chakra. Once he got Bee, Kisame literally didn't give af about what happened to the raccoon. Had he WANTED to capture all of them, yet Ponta still escaped, THEN you would have a solid point. Too bad you don't, along with everything else.

Based on above, Im incline to think Kisame complimenting Bee's action countering, leans towards this jutsu having this weakness.

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And:

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?????? Either you're attempting at Draegods piss poor straw man argument, have bad reading comprehension, or just purposely playing outright stupid at this point. Did I not just make multiple posts trying to explain to you the DIFFERENCE between both jutsu? Yet here you are pretending like I've been stating they're the same thing. For the final time, the Shark Dance Technique is USING the water source created from Dai Bakusui Shōha. Do I need to simplify that sentence for you? I'm not stating they're the same thing. That entire body of water IS Dai Bakusui Shōha, and as long as it is still existent and activated, it will remain Dai Bakusui Shōha. The Shark Dance Technique is USING Dai Bakusui Shōha, in other words, it is supplementing it. Just because Shark Dance Technique is USING Dai Bakusui Shōha, doesn't mean Dai Bakusui Shōha is not still in use. Kisame is using BOTH jutsu at once. As long as Dai Bakusui Shōha is still in USE, Kisame can still use it's water source for other Suiton Techniques.

Read it, understand it, get it, meditate on it, let it marinate and sink in your head. I'm getting to the point where once again replying to you is becoming a complete waist of time.

Then Ill wait for proof for bold.

 

[DrProof]

This whole thread is hilarious. Couple of good arguments though. How does Kisame use Water Dome with pressure however? I've always been puzzled as to how people believe he could perform such with pressure.

 

[Draegod]

This whole thread is hilarious. Couple of good arguments though. How does Kisame use Water Dome with pressure however? I've always been puzzled as to how people believe he could perform such with pressure.

Bro Kisame is perfect and takes no time to preform 5 jutsu's at once instantly! This is Kisame ThaGod with veiws from the 6 we're talking about.

 

[DrProof]

Bro Kisame is perfect and takes no time to preform 5 jutsu's at once instantly! This is Kisame ThaGod with veiws from the 6 we're talking about.

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Apparently so. I just never understood how some believed Kisame could do such a feat with 2 or more factors to worry about ya know?