Porn kills Love

[Marin]

Knew somebody would say that. It's pretty commonly quoted here and there. Are you absolutely sure? Any studies or sources to prove this wrong.

You must be registered for see links

^ Seems to be a decent source. *shrug*

This is the study you're reffering to.

"In 2003, an Australian research team led by Graham Giles of The Cancer Council Australia[63] found that males masturbating frequently had a lower probability to develop prostate cancer. Men who averaged five or more ejaculations weekly in their 20s had significantly lower risk. However they could not show a direct causation."

They failed to find a direct link between frequent ejaculation and prostate cancer. The conclusion wasn't justified. Even if we were to say it was, newer studies show opposite results:

"A 2008 study concluded that frequent ejaculation between the ages of 20 and 40 may be correlated with higher risk of developing prostate cancer. "

A newer study gave us a result that contradicts the one you're proposing. Not to mention, the study from 2003 didn't deal solely with masturbation but ejaculation in general, sexual intercourse being in the front row. This is why I said there is no accepted link between masturbation and cancer. If, however we were to pull the cancer card, it would actually point to a direction that it increases the risk rather than reducing it, so it actually works against you.

From what we currently know about prostate cancer, it has nothing to do with masturbation as a cause.

"Factors that increase the risk of prostate cancer include: older age, a family history of the disease, and race. [...] Other factors that may be involved include a diet high in processed meat, red meat, or milk products or low in certain vegetables.[2] An association with gonorrhea has been found, but a reason for this relationship has not been identified."

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Would you not get aroused more/easier if you didn't masturbate?

Not necessarily.

This is highly dependant on one's mental discipline, mindset as well as psychological and phisical state. I myself have no such problems.

The chances of getting any of those things are no greater than getting any other diseases doing any other things I bet. It's a natural, primary instinct.

Bet all you like. All these are risks whose existence you denied:

"Meanwhile there are no cons unless you're an idiot that believes everything in porn is real and the norm so that you can expect *** as a payment for everything, get rough/do whatever you like without permission and expect everybody to be up for bukkake sessions."

These are all serious risks, that do infact happen. The probability of suffering some of them is debatable but also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

C'mon...addiction? If you're going to get addicted to something, it's going to happen and that's that. It's often linked with being a side-effect of bi-polar disorder and dementia. You've an addictive personality, a more active libido and w/e other reasons that lead to it.

And this refutes my point how? Masturbation is a highly addictive act. An addiction which many people confessed, which resulted in forming of more than a few anti-pornography/masturbation groups.

NoFap, for example, is a group which consists of people who dropped masturbation and pornography and are now leading a better, more ful-filling life.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

As for psychological effects due to chemicals because of orgasms. Stop. Just stop. You get dopamine and seratonin from listening to music and eating chocolate. I'm not going to kill myself after a sudden depression spike from the aftermath of a wank.

It's not about simply creating dopamine. The problem is the abnormal increase of dopamine and a sudden drop of it.

The negative psychological impact of masturbation and pornography is something that has loudly echoed, especially in the past few years. The organizations I've listed above are some of them. Masturbation is often accompanied by a sense of guilt, uneasiness, depression, lack of motivation, lower self-esteem etc.

Also, what you'd do is irrelevant. Are we to ignore the fact that masturbation has negative impact on a lot of people's lives? Are we to ignore the people I've mentioned above?

 

[paratise]

The reason why 'the previous generation' could stay in relationships for longer has nothing to do with porn. There is absolutely no empirical evidence to support such a statement.
What did affect the divorce rates of the past, however, was the social taboo surrounding it and the pressure men and society at large put on women in particular to stay married. To be a divorcee meant to be stigmatized.

Masturbation is a perfectly healthy and perfectly natural activity. It is a part of growing up that both men and women experiment with their own bodies sexually. Any physician will tell you that masturbation is perfectly fine.

There is nothing wrong with pornography, it is some types of pornography that can be somewhat distorting to the image an impressionable young man or woman has of ***. It is easy to become uncomfortable with your own body and your sexuality when you see hot and hung actors with lots of experience have ***. That's not a problem with porn; it's a problem with the kind of porn we produce. I would maintain, however, that it is hardly a serious problem. Young people talk other young people, or their parents, etc, about *** and they quickly learn that 10 inches isn't the average and that d-cups aren't expected.

We need to stop policing and restricting peoples' sexuality.

True, i would also add child pronography, rape (or a scenario of rape), beastality as porns that are harmful and should be restricted. As long as the scenario is consensual and ethical and workers have full rights i do not see the big deal. Industry will not go away by fully banning and demonizing it; it will exist but in a more dangerous and underground way.

 

[Marin]

True, i would also add child pronography, rape (or a scenario of rape), beastality as porns that are harmful and should be restricted. As long as the scenario is consensual and ethical and workers have full rights i do not see the big deal. Industry will not go away by fully banning and demonizing it; it will exist but in a more dangerous and underground way.

1. Ethical by whose standards?
2. How would encouraging it change its infrastructure?
3. The only way to eliminate "underground" illegal activities would be to, ironically, make them legal. Underground stuff will always stay under ground.

 

[Hawker]

The reason why 'the previous generation' could stay in relationships for longer has nothing to do with porn. There is absolutely no empirical evidence to support such a statement.
What did affect the divorce rates of the past, however, was the social taboo surrounding it and the pressure men and society at large put on women in particular to stay married. To be a divorcee meant to be stigmatized.

Masturbation is a perfectly healthy and perfectly natural activity. It is a part of growing up that both men and women experiment with their own bodies sexually. Any physician will tell you that masturbation is perfectly fine.

There is nothing wrong with pornography, it is some types of pornography that can be somewhat distorting to the image an impressionable young man or woman has of ***. It is easy to become uncomfortable with your own body and your sexuality when you see hot and hung actors with lots of experience have ***. That's not a problem with porn; it's a problem with the kind of porn we produce. I would maintain, however, that it is hardly a serious problem. Young people talk other young people, or their parents, etc, about *** and they quickly learn that 10 inches isn't the average and that d-cups aren't expected.

We need to stop policing and restricting peoples' sexuality.

There is empirical evidence that nowadays people don't value long relationships because of porn. But you are right about the previous generation.

You are also right about masturbation.

However stating that there is nothing wrong with pornography is wrong. There is nothing wrong with the consept of porn, but currently the influence that porn has on people is somewhat negative as you can see here:

You must be registered for see links

I realise you probably meant that the consept of porn is not inherently wrong, but I was just pointing out that the statement itself does not hold truth.

When saying that porn is harmful it's the same thing as saying that media has a negative effect on the health of people. Both are true. Yeah rational people should make a difference between reality and commercial based media activity, but what really happens is far from it. Half of the people are below average IQ so they are more prone to those kinds of influences. You should not dismiss the power that porn and the media has on the psychology of an average human being. It's not that simple. So I disagree with you saying it's not a serious problem. Smoking cigarettes is a serious problem and I doubt that most of the people doing it would not be smoking it without seeing it on the media.

 

[paratise]

1. Ethical by whose standards?
2. How would encouraging it change its infrastructure?
3. The only way to eliminate "underground" illegal activities would be to, ironically, make them legal. Underground stuff will always stay under ground.

1) Legal standards. No rape, no child abuse, nothing illegal should happen there as a material to arouse people.
2) What?
3) That is what i said.

 

[Marin]

1) Legal standards. No rape, no child abuse, nothing illegal should happen there as a material to arouse people.
2) What?
3) That is what i said.

1) Legal =/= ethical
2) I'm asking how would encouragement of pornography change the way pornographic industry works
3) Then there is no point in accepting it

 

[paratise]

1) Legal =/= ethical
2) I'm asking how would encouragement of pornography change the way pornographic industry works
3) Then there is no point in accepting it

1) They tend to parallel in democracies, you know i do not want to get into length pesudo philosophical discussions about why rape and child abuse are not ethical.
2) Still not following...did i make a point about this?
3) Accpeting what?

 

[Marin]

1) They tend to parallel in democracies, you know i do not want to get into length pesudo philosophical discussions about why rape and child abuse are not ethical.
2) Still not following...did i make a point about this?
3) Accpeting what?

1) If you don't want a philosophical debate then don't bring ethics into the picture. Ethics is a philosophy.
2) I thought you did. Ignore if you haven't.
3) Accepting/embracing/encouraging/de-criminalizing pornography and promoting it as something morally right may have been the right wording.

 

[Narushima]

There is a correlation between strong social controls on sexuality and monogamous, long-lasting relationships (this is most evident among the religious today).

I would argue that pornography is a small part of a larger trend of the general sexualization of culture, especially western culture but now many other cultures in the world, with the core consequence being the decline of traditional, family centred, marriage, and manifold concomitant social ills.

That trend is now known as the 'sexual revolution.' Beginning in 1960s in the west, along with the proliferation of pornography, it included the normalization of pre-marital ***, casual *** and promiscuity.

Its main intellectual backbone was psychoanalysis, an entire system of thought and approach to psychology developed by a mentally unstable and cocaine-abusing scientific fraud by the name of Sigmund Freud. That is the guy who came up with the idea that we all want to f-ck our parents and that this sub-conscious desire explains much of human life, as some of you might know.

Psychoanalysis is where all those platitudes and myths about sexual repression come from: everything from fascism to family conflicts to terrorism has something to with 'sexual repression,' which can only be solved by utter annihilation of traditional sexual mores.

Because like all leftist intellectual movements psychoanalysis was basically verbal masturbation with no empirical and mathematical foundation whatsoever - in fact, Karl Popper, widely reputed as the greatest philosopher of science of all time in the scientific community and who gave the best definition of science to date with his falsification criterion characterized psychoanalysis as the epitome of successful pseudoscience - it has declined into obscurity in the scientific community but unfortunately, to this day remains a part of western intellectual discourse on sexuality.

Now real science - e.g. evolutionary psychology - tends to be a lot more consistent with the real world. As with all mammals, we can categorize the humans reproductive endeavour in two broad ways: mating and parenting. This is the basis for science like life-history theory, parental investment etc.

On one spectrum, at one end some organisms tend to produce an abundance of children but invest no time on them, i.e. let them fend for themselves (e.g. oysters that produce millions of eggs, few survive), this is called the r strategy; on the other end, animals like humans have few offspring but invest much more time and resources on them ensuring their survival, this is known as the K strategy.

Note that variation in the r-K strategy applies within species too, within humans for instance. Particularly, within our species, this spectrum of strategy is essentially an allocation problem between mating and parenting.

Men can spend most of their time on mating at the expense of parenting, our pop-culture epithet for them is "cad," while those who go about life in the reverse are called "dad." Likewise, though there is no pop-culture words for them, in biology we call women who seek out long-term relationships with a single male 'coy' and girls who have a thing for the bad boys 'fast.'

Religious people and political conservatives pretty much consecrate the K strategy based outlook to life, even if they fall short of practicing their ideals.

Social liberals, on the other hand, are basically either open r-strategists except that they do not reproduce at all (most middle-class liberals are like this), or they are r-strategists that are cads and single-mothers popping out baby after baby on welfare.

So what is the point of all these ramblings?

The r-K strategy distribution in humans is environmentally and culturally contingent, as we are a species capable of some behavioural fluidity. Pornography is perhaps merely a manifestation of the foregoing trends but these social patterns have made the societies they have diseased shift their distribution of reproductive behavioural strategies, to great detriment.

And the saddest thing about all of this is that the related social ills have disproportionately afflicted the most vulnerable segments of our societies. The educated upper middle classes still to this day have stable pair-bonds in stable families. On the other hand...

All the staples of the family institution have been eroded for the working class.

Their divorce rates have sky-rocketed . Illegitimate births, along with single mother style parenting and overrepresentation in welfare dependency ail them far, far more than they do the middle and professional classes.

All those strict cultural controls on sexuality were what fundamentally propped up the family institution for the people for whom it now barely exists. As usual, leftist directed cultural evolution destroys the very people whom they so sanctimoniously think need their values and help.

 

[paratise]

1) If you don't want a philosophical debate then don't bring ethics into the picture. Ethics is a philosophy.
2) I thought you did. Ignore if you haven't.
3) Accepting/embracing/encouraging/de-criminalizing pornography and promoting it as something morally right may have been the right wording.

1) I did not want a debate at all...Atleast i did not have intentions to question immorality of rape and child abuse.
3) Didn't i agree with this all the time:

The only way to eliminate "underground" illegal activities would be to, ironically, make them legal. Underground stuff will always stay under ground.

Porn will not go away when it becomes legal. Just like abortions and same gender relationships did not. It will exist on a healthier basis.

 

[Deadlift]

True, i would also add child pronography, rape (or a scenario of rape), beastality as porns that are harmful and should be restricted. As long as the scenario is consensual and ethical and workers have full rights i do not see the big deal. Industry will not go away by fully banning and demonizing it; it will exist but in a more dangerous and underground way.

Like it was possible. An huge part of porn watchers don't really enjoy "normal" *** that much. They need to go "beyond the frontier", watching things that with her wife could never do. This, and the appeal of the forbidden lead people to watch sadomasochistic ***, inter racial ***, inter age ***, acrobatic *** and an huge number of similar things.

 

[DominiqueX]

Hm.. I wouldn't generalize it so much. I would say it depends on the person who watches porn.
First of all, not everything of porn is "dangerous", bad, trash or whatever you want to call it. Yes, most of it is disgusting trash, but you also can find romance, beauty and art. You just have to find it among the trash.

And if you have a partner, porn can be a useful tool to maintain variety and excitement in the *** life. But of course, this does not apply to everyone and depends from person to person.

I'd say porn becomes a problem, when you only look for the trash and get addicted to it. So much that it influences your life in a bad way. For example if you build unrealistic expectations to how *** should be.. what a partner should do or what you think you are allowed to do etc. I guess you get what I want to say. You just have to keep in mind that *** is a very meaningful and intimate act in a relationship between to people. You must never forget that and let it become valueless. Then you won't forget what love is.

It is like medicine. If you handle it with care and don't overuse it, it may help, it may not. But if you overuse it and become addicted, you get sick, no matter what.

 

[Deadlift]

Hm.. I wouldn't generalize it so much. I would say it depends on the person who watches porn.
First of all, not everything of porn is "dangerous", bad, trash or whatever you want to call it. Yes, most of it is disgusting trash, but you also can find romance, beauty and art. You just have to find it among the trash.

And if you have a partner, porn can be a useful tool to maintain variety and excitement in the *** life. But of course, this does not apply to everyone and depends from person to person.

I'd say porn becomes a problem, when you only look for the trash and get addicted to it. So much that it influences your life in a bad way. For example if you build unrealistic expectations to how *** should be.. what a partner should do or what you think you are allowed to do etc. I guess you get what I want to say. You just have to keep in mind that *** is a very meaningful and intimate act in a relationship between to people. You must never forget that and let it become valueless. Then you won't forget what love is.

It is like medicine. If you handle it with care and don't overuse it, it may help, it may not. But if you overuse it and become addicted, you get sick, no matter what.

I get what you're saying. Unfortunately, I never considered porn as a form of art. It's a very hypocritical justification from those who really can't fall asleep without having a handjob, or from femi-nazi who say things like "Yeah we watch porn too, but only because it's a form of art like another".
Truth is that porn has really nothing to do with both art and love. It gives you false expectations about sexual performances, making you forget that if you love a person, you also accept her behavior in bed for what it is.

 

[DominiqueX]

I get what you're saying. Unfortunately, I never considered porn as a form of art. It's a very hypocritical justification from those who really can't fall asleep without having a handjob, or from femi-nazi who say things like "Yeah we watch porn too, but only because it's a form of art like another".
Truth is that porn has really nothing to do with both art and love. It gives you false expectations about sexual performances, making you forget that if you love a person, you also accept her behavior in bed for what it is.

So, I am a "femi-nazi" in your opinion?

Hm, it seems that you only know the trash that I was talking about. Which is no surprise, considering that like 95% of porn is indeed trash. It's okay when you don't see the possibility of porn being some kind of art, but I don't think you can say that for everyone in general.

But trust me. I cherish love and romance more than anything else in life, while watching porn from time to time. But by your definition, this should be impossible, hm?

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Porn is real very real...

 

[BanGinji]

anything can be corrupted and damaging in excess or obsession. I can write an essay on the evils of cupcakes if i wanted. Learn how to moderate and recognize when if you can't handle something.

 

[Deadlift]

So, I am a "femi-nazi" in your opinion?

No it wasn't exactly the point I wanted to make

Hm, it seems that you only know the trash that I was talking about. Which is no surprise, considering that like 95% of porn is indeed trash. It's okay when you don't see the possibility of porn being some kind of art, but I don't think you can say that for everyone in general.

The whole discussion is here. I did never see something like "romantic porn" that you're talking of. Shall you enlighten me about this?

But trust me. I cherish love and romance more than anything else in life, while watching porn from time to time. But by your definition, this should be impossible, hm?

I often listen to house music and I've never wanted to a rave party. But it doesn't change the fact that house music is more or less all centered about nightlife

Porn is real very real...

Like wrestling bro

anything can be corrupted and damaging in excess or obsession. I can write an essay on the evils of cupcakes if i wanted. Learn how to moderate and recognize when if you can't handle something.

Yeah but you can't use the "handle" word in a topic like this xd

 

[Marin]

The whole discussion is here. I did never see something like "romantic porn" that you're talking of. Shall you enlighten me about this?

Linking porn isn't allowed here.

If thats what youre asking then just stop.

 

[DominiqueX]

The whole discussion is here. I did never see something like "romantic porn" that you're talking of. Shall you enlighten me about this?

Well, I don't want to be banned by sharing this stuff here. But I think you are old enough to google it yourself, if you are really interested.

 

[Deadlift]

Linking porn isn't allowed here.

If thats what youre asking then just stop.

Hey hey halt everybody.

So, in your opinion, I made a thread called "Porn kills Love", posted a link about this, spoke for two days against porn and masturbation, because I already knew that someone would have jumped in talking about "romantic porn" in order to ask that someone to link a porn video here?

Strategic.

Well, I don't want to be banned by sharing this stuff here. But I think you are old enough to google it yourself, if you are really interested.

Well, I was just asking to explain better but never mind. Now that you make me think, I'm not really interested